"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

iptba · 20-04-2019 2:56am

KIDS USED AS WEAPONS I stayed in an abusive relationship with my wife because she threatened to not let me see my kids if I left – and there are plenty of other men like me
Matthew Wrightson was subjected to coercive control by the woman he was married to for seven years

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sun-men/8782632/abusive-relationship-wife-threatened-not-let-me-see-kids-coercive/

A new study found that more than a third of men in the UK have admitted being a victim of such a relationship, which strips the victim of their liberty and sense of self and became illegal in December 2015.

Separate research suggests the reasons men don’t leave abusive relationships are varied, but for 89 percent it’s because of worries about their children.

The fear of never seeing their kids again keeps 68 per cent with their partner.

iptba · 29-04-2019 4:40pm

AIB Twitter ad. Only highlighting female victims
https://twitter.com/aibireland/status/1121768854139625473?s=11
---
https://twitter.com/Christo63346452/status/1122719421192114176

iptba · 29-04-2019 7:01pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-council-to-discuss-refuges-for-women-as-councillor-reveals-her-domestic-abuse-hell-920648.html

Fianna Fáil councillor Gobnait Moynihan said that if a woman from Macroom wants to escape an abusive relationship, she is faced with moving herself and her children either to the city or Tralee. This isn’t ideal, she said, adding that women want to try and keep some normality in the lives of their children and moving so far away would be uprooting their from their school and friends.

With no services from men, if men depend on siblings for example, the distance could be further again.

FishOnABike · 29-04-2019 11:17pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-council-to-discuss-refuges-for-women-as-councillor-reveals-her-domestic-abuse-hell-920648.html

Quote:
Fianna Fáil councillor Gobnait Moynihan said that if a woman from Macroom wants to escape an abusive relationship, she is faced with moving herself and her children either to the city or Tralee. This isn’t ideal, she said, adding that women want to try and keep some normality in the lives of their children and moving so far away would be uprooting their from their school and friends.

With no services from men, if men depend on siblings for example, the distance could be further again.

Is there any good reason why a gender neutral approach cannot be taken to the provision of refuges / emergency accommodation for domestic abuse suffers?

Why should there be a blatent double standard when it comes to the provision of such an important service?

Any sporting organisation would be refused government sourced grant aid if it discriminated based on gender.

eviltwin · 30-04-2019 12:03am

FishOnABike wrote: »

Is there any good reason why a gender neutral approach cannot be taken to the provision of refuges / emergency accommodation for domestic abuse suffers?

Why should there be a blatent double standard when it comes to the provision of such an important service?

Any sporting organisation would be refused government sourced grant aid if it discriminated based on gender.

It would be very hard to manage and would put staff and service users at risk. . You have people going to refuge for genuine reasons and then you could have their spouse arrive trying to find them.

I used to work in DV services and we had issues with women from a certain ethnic background doing this to find and threaten victims. There is no way to verify a persons identity until they arrive, I'd want some reassurance that the man or woman at the door is not going to be violent towards me trying to find their partner.

FishOnABike · 30-04-2019 2:26pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It would be very hard to manage and would put staff and service users at risk. . You have people going to refuge for genuine reasons and then you could have their spouse arrive trying to find them.

I used to work in DV services and we had issues with women from a certain ethnic background doing this to find and threaten victims. There is no way to verify a persons identity until they arrive, I'd want some reassurance that the man or woman at the door is not going to be violent towards me trying to find their partner.

Is this not somewhat self contradictory? Why would it be any harder to screen for a male spouse trying to find their partner than 'women from a certain ethnic background doing this to threaten victims' or even a same gender partner?

Even Erin Pizzey, founder of the first domestic abuse shelter has said women regularly had to be refused due to their own violent behaviour and, though she was ostracized for saying so, that domestic violence is not a gender issue and men are as much victims of domestic abuse as women.

In this day and age shouldn't the same supports be provided to all domestic abuse suffers, female or male, in a non discriminatory manner?

eviltwin · 30-04-2019 3:56pm

FishOnABike wrote: »

Is this not somewhat self contradictory? Why would it be any harder to screen for a male spouse trying to find their partner than 'women from a certain ethnic background doing this to threaten victims' or even a same gender partner?

Even Erin Pizzey, founder of the first domestic abuse shelter has said women regularly had to be refused due to their own violent behaviour and, though she was ostracized for saying so, that domestic violence is not a gender issue and men are as much victims of domestic abuse as women.

In this day and age shouldn't the same supports be provided to all domestic abuse suffers, female or male, in a non discriminatory manner?

Given the nature of DV, the danger posed to a victim when they leave and the potential danger I believe it would make staff and residents feel safer to have separate services. That's just my take as someone who worked in the area, I would not work in a situation where I could be at risk of violence on a daily basis.

iptba · 16-05-2019 1:58pm

I see the Men's Development Network are setting up a helpline for male victims of domestic violence:

https://www.facebook.com/MensHealthForumIreland/photos/a.660910803938420/2667098819986265/

Men's Health Forum in Ireland
14 May at 09:50 ·

You are invited to the launch of the 'Male Advice Line' for male victims of domestic abuse in the Republic of Ireland. This will take place on Monday 20th May 2019 in Dublin ...

It will be interesting to see how this goes. This is how they marked International Men's Day last year:
https://www.facebook.com/mensdevelopmentnetwork/posts/2179966942036583

The Men's Development Network

25 November 2018 ·

Abuse is a reality for far too many and needs to stop.

Play your part and take the pledge to never commit, excuse or remain silent about men's violence against women and girls.

The shared post is highlights from The White Ribbon Ireland Seminar on Gender Equality which was run by The Men's Development Network for International Men's Day 2018.

Help to support this campaign by buying a white ribbon on November 25th or text WHITE RIBBON to 50300 to donate €4.

#WhiteRibbonIrl #MakeThePledge #EndMVAWG #NoExcuse

iptba · 09-06-2019 12:16am

I just saw a piece on Sky News, where it is said 10 women in the UK who killed their male partners are hoping to be either freed or have reduced sentences following a ruling during the week where a woman who had supposedly suffered years of psychological abuse had her conviction reduced from murder to manslaughter, resulting in her release.

Whatever about the pros and cons of such cases, it's unclear to me why only female perpetrators of killings could benefit from reduced sentences. It seems to be based on the view that domestic violence is something done by men to women.

Edited to add:
I just read elsewhere a commentator describe some of the details of what happened in the case where the woman was freed:

At the time of the attack, they had been living separately for 1 year.
She attacked him because he was seeing another woman.
She attacked him with a hammer and hit him 20 times.

iptba · 09-06-2019 3:36pm

iptba wrote: »

I just saw a piece on Sky News, where it is said 10 women in the UK who killed their male partners are hoping to be either freed or have reduced sentences following a ruling during the week where a woman who had supposedly suffered years of psychological abuse had her conviction reduced from murder to manslaughter, resulting in her release.

Whatever about the pros and cons of such cases, it's unclear to me why only female perpetrators of killings could benefit from reduced sentences. It seems to be based on the view that domestic violence is something done by men to women.

Edited to add:
I just read elsewhere a commentator describe some of the details of what happened in the case where the woman was freed:

Article on first case:
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/06/08/sally-challen-is-no-hero/

silverharp · 09-06-2019 6:17pm

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1137759976418553857

iptba · 22-06-2019 3:48pm

Boris Johnson is trending and this is the top tweet:
https://twitter.com/JulieNicholas_/status/1142334356570161152

Nice to see the reference to "male violence" being challenged in lots of tweets
e.g.
https://twitter.com/Martin__Higgins/status/1142342781874163712

https://twitter.com/OYFtheBook/status/1142349234211086336
https://twitter.com/Petiti000/status/1142412315473711104

iptba · 23-06-2019 2:33pm

When one hears that feminists and organisations based on supporting only female victims of domestic violence sometimes train the police, this seems plausible though unlikely to be a strict rule https://twitter.com/daddyduwsf/status/1142494810802143232?s=21
I think poster is based in the UK.

iptba · 25-06-2019 7:29pm

"Women's Aid has been providing training for An Garda Síochána and we are seeing good responses. We hope that with these new units we'll have a higher level of awareness of the dynamics of domestic violence," she says.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/lorraine-courtney-johnsons-neighbours-feared-for-someones-safety-of-course-they-had-to-call-the-police-38250544.html

I'm afraid I don't trust them to give unbiased training that domestic violence is often mutual and also is also female-on-male and to provide training for such scenarios.

...Ghost... · 27-06-2019 10:54am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/lorraine-courtney-johnsons-neighbours-feared-for-someones-safety-of-course-they-had-to-call-the-police-38250544.html

I'm afraid I don't trust them to give unbiased training that domestic violence is often mutual and also is also female-on-male and to provide training for such scenarios.

Considering the strong bias we see time and again from Womens Aid, it is a sure bet that the training will be to believe the woman, no matter what.

If a man calls the Gardaí for help with domestic violence and they walk in on him laying on the floor in a pool of blood with knife in stomach and womans hand on knife, the instructions will be to arrest the man and comfort the woman. Womens Aid should NOT be involved in Garda training.

iptba · 13-07-2019 10:02pm

https://twitter.com/menhealuk/status/1149613184745033729

iptba · 20-07-2019 2:40pm

In the UK:

Press release

Increased jobcentre support for women experiencing domestic abuse

Every jobcentre in the UK will have a trained domestic abuse point of contact by the end of summer, Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd will announce today.

Around 600 DWP staff across the UK are currently undergoing specialist training from expert organisation Women’s Aid. The newly assigned points of contact will be trained to identify and support the needs of anyone experiencing domestic abuse, and will work closely with local services to share knowledge and signpost women to additional, external support.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/increased-jobcentre-support-for-women-experiencing-domestic-abuse

iptba · 09-08-2019 2:56am

I just came across the following which seems to be quite an important questionnaire:

https://www.ncjfcj.org/sites/default/files/Finding%20Your%20ACE%20Score.pdf

Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE) Questionnaire

7. Was your mother or stepmother: Often pushed, grabbed, slapped, or had something thrown at her? or Sometimes or often kicked, bitten, hit with a fist, or hit with something hard? or Ever repeatedly hit over at least a few minutes or threatened with a gun or knife? Yes No If yes enter 1 ________

Here is a comment I saw:

Laura says

June 13, 2018 at 6:53 pm

Number 7 is flawed because it only applies to those would witness their mothers being abused, but how about those who witnessed their father, sibling, grandparent, etc, being abused? My father was abused by my step-mother, and I had to endure watching her act violently to him, both physically and verbally. She has even kicked him out of his place several times during their relationship. I have also seen her abusing my brother too. Why is it only traumatic or horrifying when applying to one example of family abuse, but not the other. Hell, even if you were to want it to only apply to parents, then why not just say “witnessing a parent being treated violently by their partner”? It is things like this that keep people from taking the abuse my father endured seriously.

iptba · 03-09-2019 2:14pm

South Africans and women in particular, are becoming increasingly infuriated by the rampant violence being perpetrated against women and children.

Highlighting this anger, a petition calling on the death penalty for those committing crimes against women and children, have garnered almost 250000 signatures, in less than 24 hours.

https://www.colouredsa.co.za/ck/death-penalty-petition-for-crimes-against-women-gains-massive-support

H3llR4iser · 03-09-2019 4:51pm

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/menhealuk/status/1149613184745033729

"Social media damages your reward systems. #Equality for men and women. #mentalhealth. #Suicide and #homelessness rates are 4 times higher for men."

And then...

"This account's Tweets are protected."

When you need a closed gate to guard your freedom to say the (factual and statistics backed) things in the first quote, it means something is profoundly wrong with people.

iptba · 04-09-2019 7:13pm

So looks like a a non-gender-neutral approach/initiative to tackle domestic violence in France:

What is being done?

The toll is increasingly catching the attention of French officials, who have begun taking more urgent steps to combat the trend. On Tuesday, the French government opened national debate in an effort to stamp out what some lawyers and prosecutors call femicide to underscore the particular nature of the crime. The term femicide was first coined in the 1970s to refer to gender-related killings. Femicide is not recognised in the French criminal code, but junior minister for gender equality Marlène Schiappa said recognition would be discussed in the coming weeks.

The consultation process started on Tuesday and is to continue until November 25th, International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women. Over the course of those 12 weeks, 91 conferences will take place across France to discuss how to prevent femicide, protect the victims and punish offenders. – New York Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/femicide-in-france-he-killed-me-she-said-with-her-dying-breath-1.4006943

Padraig Mor · 05-09-2019 11:37am

iptba wrote: »

So looks like a a non-gender-neutral approach/initiative to tackle domestic violence in France:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/femicide-in-france-he-killed-me-she-said-with-her-dying-breath-1.4006943

I'm taking from that that it's currently legal to kill your wife in France so? I mean, if they need to introduce a law against it, surely there isn't one already?

...Ghost... · 09-09-2019 10:27am

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I'm taking from that that it's currently legal to kill your wife in France so? I mean, if they need to introduce a law against it, surely there isn't one already?

The new femicide (my spell check won't even recognise the word :rolleyes: ) crime will double the number of jail years of a typical homicide and if it's a man committing femicide, he will be sentenced to the chair....and not just any chair, but the one below.
Screen%20Shot%202019-07-18%20at%2010.50.43%20AM.png

Screen%20Shot%202019-07-18%20at%2010.50.43%20AM.png

If the man has any body hair, he will then be subjected to a whole different fate.

And it's not even April 1st.

LCTD · 12-09-2019 8:50am

Under the Dunedin studies project which is a mass study from birth in New Zealand, it was revealed that women are just as likely to abuse men in a relationship as the other way around, they said the study received a lot of criticism for revealing this...

FishOnABike · 12-09-2019 12:23pm

LCTD wrote: »

Under the Dunedin studies project which is a mass study from birth in New Zealand, it was revealed that women are just as likely to abuse men in a relationship as the other way around, they said the study received a lot of criticism for revealing this...

Not the first report to make the same finding. Domestic violence / intimate partner violence is not a gender based issue. It is about time we stopped treating it as such.

Neither of the two following recent articles even acknowledge the existance of male victims of domestic violence
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/call-for-garda-domestic-violence-training-949994.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-garda-unit-specialising-in-sexual-crimes-and-domestic-violence-to-open-in-west-cork-949700.html
Unfortunately this is typical of how domestic violence is viewed and represented represented in the media, further reinforcing this one sided view.

There should be no need for completely separate support systems for female and male domestic violence victims. There should just be domestic violence victim support services.l

Sporting organistations can be denied access to public funding if they discriminate based on sex or gender. Is it not about time that the government took proactive measures to ensure that domestic violence supports and shelters are available to all equally in a non discriminatory manner and if necessarry to engage in positive discrimination to redress the current imbalance in supports available.

Silentcorner · 12-09-2019 5:47pm

LCTD wrote: »

Under the Dunedin studies project which is a mass study from birth in New Zealand, it was revealed that women are just as likely to abuse men in a relationship as the other way around, they said the study received a lot of criticism for revealing this...

The feminist movement has seen to it that it (female on male abuse) is not even considered, it forms part of the central tenets of Feminism theory that suggests domestic abuse can only be male on female, it is consequence of patriarchal oppression ....I can't believe sometimes that we are living in a time as dark as this.

The feminists have even thrown their lesbian sisters under the bus...Lesbian relationships are way more abuse than gay relationships, how can the patriarchy be blamed for that?

Life-time prevalence of IPV in LGB couples appeared to be similar to or higher than in heterosexual ones: 61.1% of bisexual women, 43.8% of lesbian women, 37.3% of bisexual men, and 26.0% of homosexual men experienced IPV during their life, while 35.0% of heterosexual women and 29.0% of heterosexual men experienced IPV. When episodes of severe violence were considered, prevalence was similar or higher for LGB adults (bisexual women: 49.3%; lesbian women: 29.4%; homosexual men: 16.4%) compared to heterosexual adults (heterosexual women: 23.6%; heterosexual men: 13.9%)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6113571/

LCTD · 13-09-2019 10:18pm

I think with female to male it can take the form of psychological abuse much more and so be more difficult to verify, also with men less likely to report it for fear of not being believed. Historically certainly it was male to female abuse in relationships which was more prevalent but that has clearly changed...

iptba · 13-09-2019 10:33pm

LCTD wrote: »

I think with female to male it can take the form of psychological abuse much more and so be more difficult to verify, also with men less likely to report it for fear of not being believed. Historically certainly it was male to female abuse in relationships which was more prevalent but that has clearly changed...

I used to think that; now I'm left wondering what the situation really was.

Marcos · 14-09-2019 11:31am

Silentcorner wrote: »

The feminist movement has seen to it that it (female on male abuse) is not even considered, it forms part of the central tenets of Feminism theory that suggests domestic abuse can only be male on female, it is consequence of patriarchal oppression ....I can't believe sometimes that we are living in a time as dark as this.

The feminists have even thrown their lesbian sisters under the bus...Lesbian relationships are way more abuse than gay relationships, how can the patriarchy be blamed for that?

Life-time prevalence of IPV in LGB couples appeared to be similar to or higher than in heterosexual ones: 61.1% of bisexual women, 43.8% of lesbian women, 37.3% of bisexual men, and 26.0% of homosexual men experienced IPV during their life, while 35.0% of heterosexual women and 29.0% of heterosexual men experienced IPV. When episodes of severe violence were considered, prevalence was similar or higher for LGB adults (bisexual women: 49.3%; lesbian women: 29.4%; homosexual men: 16.4%) compared to heterosexual adults (heterosexual women: 23.6%; heterosexual men: 13.9%)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6113571/

Sheesh, have you learned nothing? It's internalised patriar misogyny

It isn't in any way a get out clause to avoid being able to blame men patriarchy for all the ills of the world. :rolleyes:

Much like "false consciousness" in Marxist arguments - the belief(s) people have that stop the development of a true socialist mindset, or really just a nice catch all get out clause when the theoretical model doesn't work.

Silentcorner · 14-09-2019 1:15pm

Well, we all know why The Woman's Council don't want to face up to the epidemic of abuse in lesbian relationships, currently funding for support services of female victims of male violence receive up to €20,000,000 every year from the Irish taxpayer, male victims of female violence/abuse receive just over €750,000, that is a staggering difference every year, this is most likely repeated all over the developed world....the feminists do not want to rock that boat by admitting that women abuse in just the same numbers as men.

Just read the first paragraph of the linked article.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/what-works-to-stop-gender-based-violence-and-what-doesn't-950704.html

The Woman's Council, and much of their international equivalents cannot be trusted to provide reliable data...the fact that they have so much influence is worrying, there is a price to pay for policies based on misrepresented data.

"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

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