2015 RBS Six Nations General Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

thomond2006 · 25-03-2015 2:51pm

It's 3 years in a row that England have lost the title on points difference. They have won 4 matches every year since Lancaster took over, 16/20 in all.

molloyjh · 25-03-2015 2:54pm

Buer wrote: »

EOS signed a 5 contract extension before the RWC. He didn't come close to seeing it out. If things go stale and England don't hit their targets (which Ritchie states they're failing to do) then I'm sure the situation will be reviewed. The comments from Lancaster's boss aren't exactly a glowing endorsement of this season.

Anyone else think it's poor form from Ritchie? I mean have the conversation with Lancaster behind the scenes of course, but coming out to make such a strong statement in the press I think is really harsh. If they aren't happy with him then sack him, otherwise don't drop him in it like that.

Clearlier · 25-03-2015 3:00pm

England

molloyjh wrote: »

Anyone else think it's poor form from Ritchie? I mean have the conversation with Lancaster behind the scenes of course, but coming out to make such a strong statement in the press I think is really harsh. If they aren't happy with him then sack him, otherwise don't drop him in it like that.

I completely agree. Aside from whether or not the criticism was merited it's a curious thing to say in public. I was very surprised to hear it being reported yesterday.

Yeah_Right · 25-03-2015 3:02pm

Italy

molloyjh wrote: »

There undoubtedly is. They last won the 6 Nations in 2011 and since then under Lancaster have been runners-up 4 times from 4. There is no way that Ritchie is talking about anything other than Lancasters record and while he hasn't written him off it's a very public warning that they need to start winning or he's gone IMO.

I agree that the pressure is on Lancaster. If they fail to make the final at the RWC, I could see him getting the axe.

Buer · 25-03-2015 3:03pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's 3 years in a row that England have lost the title on points difference. They have won 4 matches every year since Lancaster took over, 16/20 in all.

Indeed which is a pretty decent record. My query is whether Lancaster has brought the squad as far as he can and does he know how to bring them to the next level? There seems to be a real issue with getting past that hump. He has rebuilt the squad and they have gelled but he appears to still tinker with it heavily year on year in an effort to bring success.

For example, the team that started the final game of last season's 6N (Italy) and the first game of the autumn internationals (NZ) had 6 changes in the starting line up. The team that started that game against NZ and the team that started the final game of this season's 6N had 9 changes. That's a massive number of changes to be making to a team in a relatively short period of time.

The success of the likes of England 12 years ago and Wales/Ireland in the last decade has largely centred around a settled team. Even allowing for the injuries suffered, I'm not sure Lancaster is wholly confident in a number of his players.

thomond2006 · 25-03-2015 3:03pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Anyone else think it's poor form from Ritchie? I mean have the conversation with Lancaster behind the scenes of course, but coming out to make such a strong statement in the press I think is really harsh. If they aren't happy with him then sack him, otherwise don't drop him in it like that.

It's not exactly diplomatic. I can't imagine we would like to see anyone from the IRFU say similar regarding Schmidt or any Irish coach.

I've no doubt Lancaster and co's long term deal has a break clause should the team underperform at the World Cup. There's massive pressure on them and yet it wouldn't be a major shock if they exited at the group stages.

matthew8 · 25-03-2015 3:05pm

England

England have to start winning but the last 2 years it's been a bit unfortunate. There is no excuse for 2012 and 2013 but last year they were a last minute French try from absolutely nowhere from a grand slam. This year the only game they under performed in was Ireland, to win 4 out of 5 and finish second having to play your 2 toughest fixtures away is an achievement. The problem is they just look a bit limited. They never really got into it at home to SA/NZ in Autumn or away to Ireland this year and it's a big concern that they can't seem to raise their game all that much.

Rightwing · 25-03-2015 3:08pm

Buer wrote: »

EOS signed a 5 contract extension before the RWC. He didn't come close to seeing it out. If things go stale and England don't hit their targets (which Ritchie states they're failing to do) then I'm sure the situation will be reviewed. The comments from Lancaster's boss aren't exactly a glowing endorsement of this season.

They are taken out of context. It's a bit of a freak sequence to lose the championship on points for a few years running.

If they flop in the World cup then he'll come under pressure to deliver. If they win the world cup it'll be Sir Lancaster. Simple as.

thomond2006 · 25-03-2015 3:12pm

matthew8 wrote: »

England have to start winning but the last 2 years it's been a bit unfortunate. There is no excuse for 2012 and 2013 but last year they were a last minute French try from absolutely nowhere from a grand slam. This year the only game they under performed in was Ireland, to win 4 out of 5 and finish second having to play your 2 toughest fixtures away is an achievement. The problem is they just look a bit limited. They never really got into it at home to SA/NZ in Autumn or away to Ireland this year and it's a big concern that they can't seem to raise their game all that much.

Tbh 2012 was a major success given Lancaster introduced a completely new team from scratch. Given how the previous RWC had gone, there was little expectation of them. They only lost to Wales at Twickenham in the last few minutes to a brilliant individual try from Scott Williams. A Grand Slam that year would have been a phenomenal achievement.

Buer · 25-03-2015 3:17pm

Rightwing wrote: »

They are taken out of context. It's a bit of a freak sequence to lose the championship on points for a few years running.

If they flop in the World cup then he'll come under pressure to deliver. If they win the world cup it'll be Sir Lancaster. Simple as.

Do you have the context?

It's bad luck to lose if on points difference for a couple of years running. For it to happen 4 years in a row, it's something more. There's an issue there. Can they get past it? Of course....but will they?

It's a very similar situation to how Ireland failed to win the 6N a decade ago. We won 4/5 in 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007. History remembers EOS as someone that was a great coach but could not get his team over the line. Lancaster is developing into similar.

They might win the RWC. They have the talent available but they need to put in consistent performances finally. There's no room for slipping up for one game out of five in the RWC, especially when you have two other top tier nations in your pool.

He will be under big pressure going into the RWC, not only if he flops. If you're the host country and are hotly tipped for the tournament (second favourites) then the pressure is already bubbling along nicely.

Rightwing · 25-03-2015 3:22pm

Buer wrote: »

Do you have the context?

It's bad luck to lose if on points difference for a couple of years running. For it to happen 4 years in a row, it's something more. There's an issue there. Can they get past it? Of course....but will they?

It's a very similar situation to how Ireland failed to win the 6N a decade ago. We won 4/5 in 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007. History remembers EOS as someone that was a great coach but could not get his team over the line. Lancaster is developing into similar.

They might win the RWC. They have the talent available but they need to put in consistent performances finally. There's no room for slipping up for one game out of five in the RWC, especially when you have two other top tier nations in your pool.

He will be under big pressure going into the RWC, not only if he flops. If you're the host country and are hotly tipped for the tournament (second favourites) then the pressure is already bubbling along nicely.

I know what you are saying, but I don't think winning the 6N on points difference this year would have done Eng. They ought to have put the Scots away and that was it done. They are certainly good enough to win it, but they aren't good enough to win the GS. This is the difficulty.

I also don't think they are good enough to win the W Cup. Maybe a final appearance with luck.

The context I believe is, Eng expect to win championships and GS. Losing the way they did was minimal

rrpc · 25-03-2015 3:46pm

England

Rightwing wrote: »

I know what you are saying, but I don't think winning the 6N on points difference this year would have done Eng. They ought to have put the Scots away and that was it done. They are certainly good enough to win it, but they aren't good enough to win the GS. This is the difficulty.

I also don't think they are good enough to win the W Cup. Maybe a final appearance with luck.

The context I believe is, Eng expect to win championships and GS. Losing the way they did was minimal

I think that the problem may be that they haven't had much luck with teams above or near them in the rankings. Since last summer they were beaten four times by BNZ, once by SA and then this year by us. There's also the matter of an embarrassing defeat to the BaBas

They got two out of four in November but that's a lot of defeats in one year. In the same period where we had ten wins in a row, they suffered six defeats.

Bridge93 · 25-03-2015 3:48pm

England

rrpc wrote: »

I think that the problem may be that they haven't had much luck with teams above or near them in the rankings. Since last summer they were beaten four times by BNZ, once by SA and then this year by us. There's also the matter of an embarrassing defeat to the BaBas

They got two out of four in November but that's a lot of defeats in one year. In the same period where we had ten wins in a row, they suffered six defeats.

At the same time though if we had played the ABs 4 times we would have four defeats most likely and we lost to them last year if you move the timeframe back a few months.
The SA result is our only result that stands out over theirs as they should've been thumped by them.

Buer · 25-03-2015 4:00pm

To do a little bit of analysis, England have a 61.5% winning record under Lancaster. In games at home, that jumps to 71.4%.

Against the Tri-Nation sides, his winning percentage is 21.4% with Australia accounting for two of those wins, both in Twickenham. (3 wins from 14 games).

rrpc · 25-03-2015 4:09pm

England

Bridge93 wrote: »

At the same time though if we had played the ABs 4 times we would have four defeats most likely and we lost to them last year if you move the timeframe back a few months.
The SA result is our only result that stands out over theirs as they should've been thumped by them.

To be fair though, the match against the ABs was Joe's third match in charge. Lancaster has been in charge a good deal longer relatively speaking.

They were also beaten by France in the last game of the 6N.

awec · 25-03-2015 4:31pm

I missed the last two weeks of this tournament. Anyone know where I can see proper highlights? I don't mean the official 6 nations ones with no commentary and that are like 30 seconds long.

.ak · 25-03-2015 4:32pm

awec wrote: »

I missed the last two weeks of this tournament. Anyone know where I can see proper highlights? I don't mean the official 6 nations ones with no commentary and that are like 30 seconds long.

Round 4 didn't happen and we won the championship, just incase you were wondering.

Pudsy33 · 25-03-2015 4:34pm

England

awec wrote: »

I missed the last two weeks of this tournament. Anyone know where I can see proper highlights? I don't mean the official 6 nations ones with no commentary and that are like 30 seconds long.

Against the head on the rte player has highlights from all three games. The whole matches are available too.

CatFromHue · 25-03-2015 4:35pm

awec wrote: »

I missed the last two weeks of this tournament. Anyone know where I can see proper highlights? I don't mean the official 6 nations ones with no commentary and that are like 30 seconds long.

RugbyDump usually have a highlights vid of each game that's around 10mins long

Podge_irl · 25-03-2015 4:39pm

Rightwing wrote: »

The context I believe is, Eng expect to win championships and GS. Losing the way they did was minimal

Absolute trollop. Ritchie would have come out with nothing of the sort if England had won the championship and everyone would be rather happy with their day's work. They might have some lingering regrets but that's it.

Not everyone is as obsessed with the grandslam as you seem to be.

.ak · 25-03-2015 4:45pm

Rightwing wrote: »

I know what you are saying, but I don't think winning the 6N on points difference this year would have done Eng. They ought to have put the Scots away and that was it done. They are certainly good enough to win it, but they aren't good enough to win the GS. This is the difficulty.

I also don't think they are good enough to win the W Cup. Maybe a final appearance with luck.

The context I believe is, Eng expect to win championships and GS. Losing the way they did was minimal

I still can't believe you don't consider winning the championship as, well, winning. It's like you fail to understand the basics between coming 1st and 2nd.

I think you're on your own there to be honest!

I'd say the English fans would gladly swap their bridesmaid dresses for a wedding dress...

Fireball07 · 25-03-2015 5:23pm

England

awec wrote: »

I missed the last two weeks of this tournament. Anyone know where I can see proper highlights? I don't mean the official 6 nations ones with no commentary and that are like 30 seconds long.

There are full matches for the last round on youtube. Bit of a commitment but I definitely recommend watching them, the last day was intense as fcuk. I've already watched both the Ireland-Scotland game and the France-England game back again.

Peregrine · 25-03-2015 5:36pm

England

The Six Nations Youtube page has hugely improved. Official extended highlights are around 9mins. They also have anthems, MOTM interviews etc.

Rightwing · 25-03-2015 11:42pm

.ak wrote: »

I still can't believe you don't consider winning the championship as, well, winning. It's like you fail to understand the basics between coming 1st and 2nd.

I think you're on your own there to be honest! I'd say the English fans would gladly swap their bridesmaid dresses for a wedding dress...

Certainly not.

Didn't some Welsh fan say on the other thread once the GS was gone he wasn't that concerned about the championship. That's the category I fall into.

.ak · 26-03-2015 12:03am

No offence to them, but they came third so... You know... Kinda easy for them to say.

I think most Irish fans would be disappointed at coming third, but you'll be hard pushed to find one disappointed at coming first.

Rightwing · 26-03-2015 12:33am

.ak wrote: »

No offence to them, but they came third so... You know... Kinda easy for them to say.

I think most Irish fans would be disappointed at coming third, but you'll be hard pushed to find one disappointed at coming first.

I took him at his word at any rate.

I wouldnt have been disappointed if we came 3rd, I do think most were happier than I was at first place. It wasn't huge for me.

The World Cup is the big one for Irl this year. I said it last time, we had a great chance to do really well, we probably even have a better chance this time round.

Teferi · 26-03-2015 12:42am

"Ah I didn't want to win the competition anyway" said nobody in the history of ever.

26-03-2015 12:51am

England

Teferi wrote: »

"Ah I didn't want to win the competition anyway" said nobody in the history of ever.

Flipper22 · 26-03-2015 1:43am

Teferi wrote: »

"Ah I didn't want to win the competition anyway" said nobody in the history of ever.

.....unless they lose

Webbs · 26-03-2015 11:13am

.ak wrote: »

No offence to them, but they came third so... You know... Kinda easy for them to say.

I think most Irish fans would be disappointed at coming third, but you'll be hard pushed to find one disappointed at coming first.

As I said on the other thread and maybe its from being brought up as a kid in 70s and 80s when there was shared championships etc.
Put another way I can tell you how many GS Wales have and remember those years in great detail. But how many championships other than that, not a clue.

Dont get me wrong I would obviously have been pleased if Wales had won the championship. But coming 2nd or 3rd on points doesnt evoke a big reaction in me (and also all my fellow Welsh friends) am certainly not disappointed as our performances apart from 40mins were very good.

2015 RBS Six Nations General Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Comments