Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Edgware · 04-02-2019 7:44pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

Allowances are only paid to nurses who work them. Nurses working Mon to Fri patterns don't get them. There are a lot more of these areas operating in the health service than is commonly known.

Why should some nurse sitting on her arse taking blood samples between tea breaks get the same money as some nurse below in Accident and Emergency on a Friday night dealing with drunken scumbags?

tayto lover · 04-02-2019 7:47pm

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Government won't cave on this one. Trying to empty the public coffers 8 weeks before a likely brexit no deal. We will be back in 2008 if Leo empties the wallet.

Time will tell.
Leo will melt when they up the anti.

pjohnson · 04-02-2019 7:49pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

Doubt if he gets out much, always trolling any public service threads ðŸ™„

I like the Union fans. Everyone else is a troll and Unions are great.

Without fail.

James Brown · 04-02-2019 7:50pm

They could pay the nurses and midwives and just say the hospital went up another billion, nobody seems to know who organised that.

TheRiverman · 04-02-2019 7:54pm

Edgware wrote: »

Why should some nurse sitting on her arse taking blood samples between tea breaks get the same money as some nurse below in Accident and Emergency on a Friday night dealing with drunken scumbags?

The words of an expert on how all hospital wards are functioning at present ?

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 7:57pm

salonfire wrote: »

But that's the thing. What is there to set controls and avoid public sector employees demanding whatever they want and using the public as hostages?

The government sat round with the unions and agreed pay rise just 18 months ago.

Out of the blue comes an additional 12% on top of the already agreed 7% .

Half baked and wrong, again. Read the thread. Can't be bothered correcting sxxt like this anymore.

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 8:00pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Wouldn't even bother with an allowance. Instead, give those front line public servants that are looking to buy a house first call on affordable housing built inside the M50.
I don't think most people would have an issue with that. It would also help with recruitment and retention in the long term

A Dublin weighting would be a good idea. All businesses public and private, are having problems recruiting staff for Dublin.

Damien360 · 04-02-2019 8:14pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

A Dublin weighting would be a good idea. All businesses public and private, are having problems recruiting staff for Dublin.

A Dublin/Cork weighting makes sense. A bit like London and teachers. The weighting is given in percentage of house purchase cost up to an amount. My brother got that and had to remain in that employment for a minimum term. If he left that job, the house had to be sold and the council has to get it's money back plus any profit from sale. Once the fixed term was up, he was free to sell without backpayment to council. It made it easier to get teachers.

But, we are in a housing crisis with regards to pricing and availability. It would just fuel the fire.

Pay restoration would be nice. I still have not got back to my 2007 pay level and I'm in the private sector (not health). Our increases are in the order of 1%, but I have been getting those every year for the past 4. It is a matter of cost. My employer can't push customers for more and similarly the nurses can't push it's paymaster for more as it simply is not there.

In a little under 8 weeks Brexit will hit and we will have to finance that. You could double nursing wages and the current issue with the health service would remain. They are right to highlight so many things that are wrong but paying more won't fix it.

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 8:18pm

salonfire wrote: »

This is certainly true.

They are all about the common man, the worker and the union when it comes to themselves. But the first person you'll see looking for a bargain is a public sector worker, hopping on the cheapest Ryanair flight whose staff are treated like dogsh1t

When the private sector was getting shredded, not a mention about it.

Are you serious ,you silly person?
I may work in the public sector but my husband and half my family are private sector. This is just blatant divisive propaganda from you. We all pay taxes and some of my taxes go to IDA and ISME and grants and incentives for businesses, and also social welfare which was very necessary after the crash. And how do you know what flights a nurse gets anymore than the business person.?..

Twenty Grand · 04-02-2019 8:18pm

Does a Dublin weighting make sense in the long term?
The only major difference between Dublin and other urban centres is the cost of accommodation.

If that was to level out over the next 5 years then youd be back tonight two tier system.

04-02-2019 8:22pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

Wrong. Nurses rejected that.. Please read the thread, this has been posted numerous times . Again half baked, jumping in with a comment.

Not wrong. The INMO accepted the Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020 and the pay rises in it. They are looking for increases beyond the agreement. Of course, striking for a pay rise would itself be a breach of the agreement. That is why they have come with this ruse that it is all do with retention - so they can take the money and still strike (in their opinion - I wonder how long they will be indulged about this?).

There is no evidence that there is an across the board retention issue. Yet they are demanding across the board pay rises in all grades. It is a money-grab - plain and simple. Look at the INMO's contemptuous rejection this evening of Government offer of talks on issues that might actually be to do with retention.

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 8:29pm

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

A teacher may have to go to bed worrying about a student who is very upset/distracted:acting out because their mum/dad IS the patient that nurse is looking after.

I teach 170 students across the age range of 12-18.
A lot of these students have problems and that’s where the pastoral role of being a teacher comes in.

I would never say that any job is “easy” without having first hand experience of it.

You can’t point at the holidays and say “teaching is easy”.
It’s a cop out.

Teaching isn't easy . A lot of training and high standards to maintain while watching out for vulnerable kids. But they are trying to derail this thread and you, by attacking teachers. They have done this with anyone who supports nurses but works in a different area.
Thank you for your support .

04-02-2019 8:35pm

They won't get their pay restoration as it means the whole public service would be gagging for it then.

As an aside, all health care professions earn less than they did in 2008. As an example, a senior pharmacist in 2008 started on 64000 euro but only starts on 61000 euro today.

Galwayguy35 · 04-02-2019 8:37pm

I'd say they thought the government would have caved by now, good to see them standing firm.

Disrupting the lives of sick people just for a pay rise.

eagle eye · 04-02-2019 8:42pm

Galwayguy35 wrote:

I'd say they thought the government would have caved by now, good to see them standing firm.

The only problem is that can't go out indefinitely. If they went on a full out strike it'd get sorted real quick.

Galwayguy35 wrote:

Disrupting the lives of sick people just for a pay rise.

What are they supposed to do? Nobody was listening to them, they had no choice but to take this action.
It's about more than just pay too.

04-02-2019 8:46pm

eagle eye wrote: »

The only problem is that can't go out indefinitely. If they went on a full out strike it'd get sorted real quick.

What are they supposed to do? Nobody was listening to them, they had no choice but to take this action.
It's about more than just pay too.

I would fully support nurses if this strike was about conditions but it's not. It's about getting a 12% pay increase.

HamSarris · 04-02-2019 8:46pm

The argument has been made that nurses should get the same pay as professions like physiotherapy, speech and language therapy and occupational therapy. It has been argued that each requires a degree so why should nurses be discriminated against?

Firstly, half of young adults have a degree so it doesn't entitle anyone to their own office and a big salary anymore.

Second, the take home pay of nurses currently matches these professions given that the average nurse makes 25% more than their base salary with allowances, irregular hours and overtime. For example, after 10 years experience, a staff grade physiotherapist takes home 47k. The average staff grade nurse takes home 51K.

Lastly, it's clear that some professions are a lot harder to get into others. Just look at the differences in CAO points. If nursing pay basic is increased to match these professions, the average nurse will take home 25% more than people in these professions who don't have the same allowances, overtime etc. This will build up a lot of resentment with these and other professions - the former A students will start to feel they're at the bottom of the class in terms of pay and the threat of large scale industrial action will increase.

CAO Points 2018:

Physiotherapy
UL: 566
Trinity: 543
UCD: 545
RCS 532

Speech & Language
Trinity: 520
NUIG: 529
UCC: 509

Occupational Therapy
UCC: 522
Trinity: 507
NUIG: 521

General Nursing
UCC 440
Trinity: 408
UCD: 402
NUIG: 445

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 8:49pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Show me where?

I said leading up, the years 2000-2006,

Taken from previous post.

It was even worse.
€13bn in 2008
€23.5bn in 2009
€53.5bn in 2010
€22bn in 2011
€14bn in 2012
€10bn in 2013

Borrowing to fund the public servants and social welfare recipients that Bertie bought and (we) paid for during the good times.

It makes the banking bailout look like the Teddy Bear's picnic.

At least we got back around €18bn from the banks. But we're still saddled with Rolls Royce pay and pensions for the public service.

We're still paying back the money and you have the same fcukers telling us it was really all the fault of the banks while they have their hands out looking for more of the same.

It's time people woke up to the bull**** they're being spun by populist economic morons.

So is your other name Facehugger?
Because this is his post that you have put up , from a few days ago...and the answer , which I will quote , is not mine, but if you can read a graph?? It Is from Wanderer78 , p 133 , an attachment from Prof Steven Keen. Go back and look at it, it shows the main debt caused by the crash was not public service pay. But then we know that .

Miike · 04-02-2019 8:49pm

eagle eye wrote: »

The only problem is that can't go out indefinitely. If they went on a full out strike it'd get sorted real quick.

People will die if they do this. Not a nurse in this country wants to see someone die (any normal nurse doesn't want this anyway, you'd hope).

I do think this escalation of strikes by the dominant unions isn't going to help the matter either. I support nurses in this but I think they should dial back the gung-ho and open as much dialogue as possible (including addressing non-pay related aspects) before they go announcing more and more stoppages, overtimes bans and strikes.The optics aren't great from either side but this could quickly spin out of control.

Martina1991 · 04-02-2019 8:51pm

Are there many nurses that just work 9 to 5 monday to Friday?

Are nights and weekends compulsory at all?

facehugger99 · 04-02-2019 8:52pm

eagle eye wrote: »

It's about more than just pay too.

The only people who peddle that lie are the nurses and the terminally stupid.

I’ll presume you’re a nurse.

04-02-2019 8:52pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

Teaching isn't easy . A lot of training and high standards to maintain while watching out for vulnerable kids. But they are trying to derail this thread and you, by attacking teachers. They have done this with anyone who supports nurses but works in a different area.
Thank you for your support .

Both nurses and teachers individually generally do a good job. That is recognized in the their pay as well as non-pay elements of their employment. Don't try pretending that those who dont accept the present hostage-taking of the sick and dependent are somehow anti nurse.

Galwayguy35 · 04-02-2019 9:03pm

eagle eye wrote: »

The only problem is that can't go out indefinitely. If they went on a full out strike it'd get sorted real quick.

What are they supposed to do? Nobody was listening to them, they had no choice but to take this action.
It's about more than just pay too.

So you think they should be just given 12% pay rises then do you?

This country is just coming out of a recession, but the PS are still whinging about the fact they had to take a pay cut to their secure pensionable job while the rest of us lost our jobs.

They need to get real and realise there isn't an endless supply of money the government can tap into, that's how Bertie bought PS votes and we all know where we ended up there.

pjohnson · 04-02-2019 9:13pm

eagle eye wrote: »

It's about more than just pay too.

Unions always peddle this yet once pay is increased the other points are very quickly forgotten.

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 9:24pm

mikhail wrote: »

General Nursing is 100 points lower at UCD than Engineering, and 80 lower at TCD. This is publically available information. I don't really see why you're just making **** up.

Its higher in DCU and UCC ? Don't know about Galway or Limerick, but my point is ..you can't say one degree is better than another just because the points are higher . Does that mean that nurses trained in DCU or UCC are better trained than others in the country? Are engineers in UCC or DCU less able to do their jobs?

hawkelady · 04-02-2019 9:29pm

HamSarris wrote: »

The argument has been made that nurses should get the same pay as professions like physiotherapy, speech and language therapy and occupational therapy. It has been argued that each requires a degree so why should nurses be discriminated against?

Firstly, half of young adults have a degree so it doesn't entitle anyone to their own office and a big salary anymore.

Second, the take home pay of nurses currently matches these professions given that the average nurse makes 25% more than their base salary with allowances, irregular hours and overtime. For example, after 10 years experience, a staff grade physiotherapist takes home 47k. The average staff grade nurse takes home 51K.

Lastly, it's clear that some professions are a lot harder to get into others. Just look at the differences in CAO points. If nursing pay basic is increased to match these professions, the average nurse will take home 25% more than people in these professions who don't have the same allowances, overtime etc. This will build up a lot of resentment with these and other professions - the former A students will start to feel they're at the bottom of the class in terms of pay and the threat of large scale industrial action will increase.

CAO Points 2018:

Physiotherapy
UL: 566
Trinity: 543
UCD: 545
RCS 532

Speech & Language
Trinity: 520
NUIG: 529
UCC: 509

Occupational Therapy
UCC: 522
Trinity: 507
NUIG: 521

General Nursing
UCC 440
Trinity: 408
UCD: 402
NUIG: 445

Not really fair saying that nurses take home more than physio’s due to their working overtime and irregular hours !! Granted nurses work shift but it’s not fair saying overtime brings it up !! You think overtime should be compulsory? Try finding a physio after 6pm or on a weekend !!

peterjmaxwell · 04-02-2019 9:36pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

The only people who peddle that lie are the nurses and the terminally stupid.

I’ll presume you’re a nurse.

I'm neither but my wife is a nurse and unless you've heard the horror stories I've heard for the last 10 year you know nothing.

Tell me this, if pay parity is out of the question, how do you suggest we solve the recruitment and retention problem? How do we get enough nurses hired (who are actually nurses and not someone who showed up to a recruitment fair abroad and said they were a nurse without any checks) to fill the shortfall we have now?

I dont blame new graduates leaving immediately, they're forced to work for nothing for 3 years doing all same tasks and having the same repsonibilities as a regular qualified nurse. They _should_ be there with supervision, with someone checking over the work they do but instead the HSe treat them as a regular staff number and count them in ward staffing figures. A trainee nurse on my wife's ward was taken off night duty and sent to open an overnight ward on her own with no supervision and two care assistants to help (two care assistants who were earning more than the trainee nurse would earn if they had qualified and were actually being paid to do the job they were).

There is a retirement crisis looming with all of the foreign nurses who were hired in during the last strike who have early retirement written into their contracts. My wife's ward has lost 30% of their nurses in the last year with no replacements and another 40% are due to retire in the next 3 years and there is nobody there to fill that gap.

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 9:38pm

Greengrant wrote: »

People are wealthier than ever on average, poor people today are better off than 20 years ago who were better off than poor people 40 years ago and so on. Let "greedy" people make as much money as they want, that brings jobs and innovation.

Trickle down does it? I don't think the increasing child poverty and homelessness bears that out.

Twenty Grand · 04-02-2019 9:38pm

hawkelady wrote: »

Not really fair saying that nurses take home more than physio’s due to their working overtime and irregular hours !! Granted nurses work shift but it’s not fair saying overtime brings it up !! You think overtime should be compulsory? Try finding a physio after 6pm or on a weekend !!

Also, since when has the number of points related to the difficulty of a course??

That's news to me..

Goldengirl · 04-02-2019 9:40pm

1641 wrote: »

Both nurses and teachers individually generally do a good job. That is recognized in the their pay as well as non-pay elements of their employment. Don't try pretending that those who dont accept the present hostage-taking of the sick and dependent are somehow anti nurse.

How would anyone take your comments as anything otherwise?

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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