Youth Assembly on Climate Change

KSU · 15-11-2019 4:45pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

? Whose pretending? Im in my mid 20s. Happy to see children are taking an active interest in pressing issues. Would be happier to see old people back the f*ck down and shut up.

Aren't the 20 somethings the ones paying for the mistakes of the previous generation?

They can't afford get deposits for a house or if they can are just keeping their head above water regarding cost of living, can't afford retrofits etc, can't afford electric cars are having to commute hours in traffic out of necessity etc.

How can they afford the luxury of choice to implement their values? The funny thing is that the older generation for the most part are the ones who are able to afford to implement these changes.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 4:47pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

? Whose pretending? Im in my mid 20s. Happy to see children are taking an active interest in pressing issues. Would be happier to see old people back the f*ck down and shut up.

I agree that’s its great to see children take an active interest in pressing issues. The question is should all children’s opinions be heard or only those that are acceptable to politicians?

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 4:49pm

How does the proposed increase in the population by 1m by 2040 sit with our climate goals? As does extending Dublin airport and filling the country with data centres

Doesn't that really say everything about policy, taxation and the seriousness of climate policy?

gozunda · 15-11-2019 4:51pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

? Whose pretending? Im in my mid 20s. Happy to see children are taking an active interest in pressing issues. Would be happier to see old people back the f*ck down and shut up.

Well those comments do come across as puerile at best tbh.

I'm sure you would. Fuk democracy eh? Mao Tse Tung tried some similar with his army of young red guards who roamed the streets attacking older people and those who they perceived as 'intellectuals' beating them up and sending them to the countryside in an effort to "see old people back the f*ck down and shut up"..

We know how that ended up ...

Skylinehead · 15-11-2019 4:54pm

gozunda wrote: »

As stated it was a tongue in cheek comment with the bonus it just might make kids think.

Just one thing - a kid raised 50 or even 30 years ago had a hell of a lower carbon footprint than any kid today. I was of a generation where there was no disposable nappies, very little plastic, clothes were hand me downs and you ate what you were given.

So yeah kids or let's say having kids and providing them with everything they need or want is definitely part of the problem. So yeah today's kids dont get an exemption simply because they are 'kids'

So first off it's a joke, then you go on about exemptions. Exemptions from what exactly, are we back to taxing the childer?

suicide_circus · 15-11-2019 4:55pm

good to see the young people getting involved with their sparkley eyed enthusiasm.

i took part i the model UN program as a kid and my god that was a sh1tshow.

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 5:00pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

So first off it's a joke, then you go on about exemptions. Exemptions from what exactly, are we back to taxing the childer?

Presumably he means they don't get a free pass on criticising carbon intensive lifestyles whilst having carbon intensive lifestyles themselves.

There is an idea out there that campaigning children cannot be criticised since they are only children.

A cynic could claim that adults using campaigning children because they are an excellent vehicle for pushing a policy whilst at the same time insulating that policy from scrutiny or criticism.

Luckily I'm not a cynic...

seamus · 15-11-2019 5:01pm

I see the "I'm not a climate change denier, I just happen to look like one" brigade are out in force again.

Why anyone would take this opportunity to whinge about young people getting involved in anything that may encourage them to get involved in shaping their own future, is beyond me.

Stevieluvsye · 15-11-2019 5:02pm

I did a snap poll with 6, 16 year old lads last sunday. Each one thought it was all being overstated and was scaremongering, to which one lad piped up.

"The climate on earth has been changing for millions of years"

Says i" But they say that this is more rapid then previous climate changes"

Says he" Sure they wern't monitoring the climate on earth a million years ago"

So thankfully some of the youth today do not have their blinkers on

*The 6 lads, were my son and his mates FTR

Strazdas · 15-11-2019 5:03pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I agree that’s its great to see children take an active interest in pressing issues. The question is should all children’s opinions be heard or only those that are acceptable to politicians?

If they were discussing homelessness, I'm sure they would be very critical of the government.

I believe the idea for the Youth Assembly came from RTE, they went to the government with the proposal and in fairness to them, they agreed with it.

gozunda · 15-11-2019 5:03pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

So first off it's a joke, then you go on about exemptions. Exemptions from what exactly, are we back to taxing the childer?

Indeed. Pity that went straight over the head - but no matter

. The other bit was in reply to the point raised subsequently. So yes any 'exemption' for being part of the problem. Kids are little different to most adults in relation to existing carbon footprints. That said there's plenty of adults living a low impact lifestyle and being an active part of the solution.

sk8erboii · 15-11-2019 5:06pm

gozunda wrote: »

Well those comments do come across as puerile at best tbh.

I'm sure you would. Fuk democracy eh? Mao Tse Tung tried some similar with his army of young red guards who roamed the streets attacking older people and those who they perceived as 'intellectuals' beating them up and sending them to the countryside in an effort to "see old people back the f*ck down and shut up"..

We know how that ended up ...

Nah. Look at the demographic for NIMBYISM. Those vetoing housing developments are all 40/50/60 years old majority. (like that one farmer who stopped the development of an Intel building that would’ve brought hundreds of jobs in his deprecated area.) Now look at those who voted No to the eight referendum. Same people. Now look at those whinging about lessening irelands carbon footprint - same people.

In the past 20-30 years Ireland has gotten out of this parochial mindset. Unfortunately old people haven’t. They are holding back this nation from developing. If every old person died right now it would lessen the burden on healthcare, economy and the development of the nation.

No i dont suggest killing them in the streets. Soft power such as hinting to dissolve their pension and subsidized healthcare, just to remind them how much they rely on the system.

For Old landlords - just remove their right to veto.

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 5:07pm

seamus wrote: »

I see the "I'm not a climate change denier, I just happen to look like one" brigade are out in force again.

Why anyone would take this opportunity to whinge about young people getting involved in anything that may encourage them to get involved in shaping their own future, is beyond me.

Oh please...
The kind of policies that are being promoted would see the likes of air travel become unaffordable for all but the upper middle class and above. If that's what young people want, that's fine, but there seems to be little understanding that that is the kind of change they are campaigning for.

It will be their country soon, to run as they see fit but they should be careful of what they wish for, because they might just get it.

KSU · 15-11-2019 5:10pm

seamus wrote: »

I see the "I'm not a climate change denier, I just happen to look like one" brigade are out in force again.

Why anyone would take this opportunity to whinge about young people getting involved in anything that may encourage them to get involved in shaping their own future, is beyond me.

Because as part of the discussion you have a group of kids who have no education or experience in finance, taxation budgeting combining with a group of people with a poor track record in finance, taxation and budgeting dictating policy with will affect every persons finance, taxation and budgetting going forward.

The writing was on the wall when Greens started getting support in the most recent bi-elections. There is a new cash cow for the government (both ours and internationally) and it's one wrapped in a palatable "cause"

gozunda · 15-11-2019 5:32pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

Nah. Look at the demographic for NIMBYISM. Those vetoing housing developments are all 40/50/60 years old majority. (like that one farmer who stopped the development of an Intel building that would’ve brought hundreds of jobs in his deprecated area.) Now look at those who voted No to the eight referendum. Same people. Now look at those whinging about lessening irelands carbon footprint - same people.

In the past 20-30 years Ireland has gotten out of this parochial mindset. Unfortunately old people haven’t. They are holding back this nation from developing. If every old person died right now it would lessen the burden on healthcare, economy and the development of the nation.

No i dont suggest killing them in the streets. Soft power such as hinting to dissolve their pension and subsidized healthcare, just to remind them how much they rely on the system.
For Old landlords - just remove their right to veto.

Well your the one who wanted to "see old people back the f*ck down and shut up" without exception. Nice positioning there

And because one person of a certain age / older than you - rejected to one intensive developement - you believe that proves all the"not in my backyard " types are old people" yes? Brilliant.

You do know that arguing from the particular to the general is a common trait seen in those that provide no coherent logic to their argument.

As to the highlighted bit - lol. Well done there btw - that's truely a model citizens view of this Brave new world with 'Logans Run' as inspiration.

Calhoun · 15-11-2019 5:40pm

I think the big thing that will undo all the green work is the current thoughts on degrowth, no country in their right mind will be happy with just turning back development and having a lesser standard of living.

whisky_galore · 15-11-2019 5:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's nonsense. A political move. A bunch of kids repeating what was trending on twitter yesterday

Agree. Window dressing, that's all.

A case of 'awww would you look at them, they thinks they're adults'.

James Brown · 15-11-2019 5:44pm

PR stunt. They couldn't give two f***s.
Leo was inspired by the childer...not inspired enough to tackle record breaking numbers of homeless children.

suicide_circus · 15-11-2019 5:59pm

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

Mebuntu · 15-11-2019 6:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's nonsense. A political move. A bunch of kids repeating what was trending on twitter yesterday

Indeed, when you read the "recommendations"...

https://www.rte.ie/news/youth-assembly/2019/1113/1090623-show-support-for-the-youth-assembly-recommendations/

..you realise that most of these young 'uns would not have the remotest clue what they mean. Pure exploitation.

Crock Rock · 15-11-2019 6:01pm

This very "inclusive" conference seemingly excludes 6 of our 32 counties.

If our government are serious about future reunification they will give every opportunity to participants from across the "border".

suicide_circus · 15-11-2019 6:11pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

Indeed, when you read the "recommendations"...

https://www.rte.ie/news/youth-assembly/2019/1113/1090623-show-support-for-the-youth-assembly-recommendations/

..you realise that most of these young 'uns would not have the remotest clue what they mean. Pure exploitation.

its not a bad list actually

PopePalpatine · 15-11-2019 6:18pm

nullzero wrote: »

Welcome to the modern world, dissenting voices aren't allowed, but it's all OK, don't worry about it.

The dissenters went on about "they'll make us eat twigs and live in thatched cottages" too much.

riffmongous · 15-11-2019 6:22pm

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

I did a snap poll with 6, 16 year old lads last sunday. Each one thought it was all being overstated and was scaremongering, to which one lad piped up.

"The climate on earth has been changing for millions of years"

Says i" But they say that this is more rapid then previous climate changes"

Says he" Sure they wern't monitoring the climate on earth a million years ago"

So thankfully some of the youth today do not have their blinkers on

*The 6 lads, were my son and his mates FTR

but he does have blinkers on, the climate doesn't change only at a million year period.. and while true humans weren't exactly monitoring it until recently, nature still left records that we can use to estimate the climate far back into the past, fossils, ice cores, tree rings, sediments etc

riffmongous · 15-11-2019 6:25pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

Indeed, when you read the "recommendations"...

https://www.rte.ie/news/youth-assembly/2019/1113/1090623-show-support-for-the-youth-assembly-recommendations/

..you realise that most of these young 'uns would not have the remotest clue what they mean. Pure exploitation.

Care to explain what exactly you have a problem with?

riffmongous · 15-11-2019 6:34pm

gozunda wrote: »

Hmmm ok. I've a lot of tax paying years ahead by my own reckoning. And no I'm not going to leave the country or otherwise spend many years not paying or paying lower tax. If the kids are truely representitive of across the board - then they should benefit from the countires lower tax base for more people more than older generations ever did and recieve more in free health care and other benefits. But yeah kids need to be aware of these issues and not just do that thing of blaming others which has been a feature of some of the public faces of this movenent. But yeah agreed what they come up should be interesting.

Hehe well I don't know how old your are, but just every year you've been working is one less you'll pay a carbon tax than someone who is 16 now, and you know the way taxes go they'll get hit for more in the long run with increases.

So what did you think of their recommendations? I don't think the farming ones might be viable, but they are certainly not outrageous demands imo. Number 6 would certainly benefit Irish farmers

James Brown · 15-11-2019 6:40pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

.

gozunda · 15-11-2019 6:43pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Hehe well I don't know how old your are, but just every year you've been working is one less you'll pay a carbon tax than someone who is 16 now, and you know the way taxes go they'll get hit for more in the long run with increases.

So what did you think of their recommendations? I don't think the farming ones might be viable, but they are certainly not outrageous demands imo. Number 6 would certainly benefit Irish farmers

Carbon tax or general tax - there's bugger all difference. What I do know (and avoiding the hole that this particular discussion is not about you or me or what age we are) is that people over the last 50 years of this state have paid punitive tax levels with very little personal return. But hey if that's what it took to build the country as it is now and provide kids with the very best start in life then that's fine. The excuse that some kid is somehow morally elevated because they also may have to pay tax for higher carbon footprints in the future than those who went before them really doesnt take too much working out does it.

gozunda · 15-11-2019 6:52pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

There was a good book written about that ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies

KSU · 15-11-2019 6:52pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Care to explain what exactly you have a problem with?

Some thought's though people may not agree

RECOMMENDATIONS

From your corner store to your super market, we call on the house to incentivise and obligate the installation of glass doors on open refrigerators

- Not actually a bad idea low impact positive change

For Ireland to ban the importation of fracked gas and invest solely in renewables.

- Renewable s technology can't support energy demands and disposal of things such as solar battery cells can be as negative in terms of environmental damage. Fracking gets such a bad wrap but to be honest energy yield vs impact it's a positive short term step away form fossil fuels

Implementing measures that will allow that Irish goods be both eco- sustainable and affordable in todays' Irish Market.

How exactly? Government is gutting the agricultural industry at the moment, and our cost of living is approx 12.5% higher than the UK. Again this is where a background in economic policy is greatly lacking in the overall discussion

Implement a tiered Tax on Emissions from large companies including those under capital ETS. This tax must be increased every year while threshold decreases, shifting the burden from individuals to corporations.

But the Government subsidizes corporations for the economy. Aviation Fuel is subsidized so taxation here just creates net neutrality.
Then you have the likes of Apple tax bill and other examples which show a trend of taxation trickling down to the individual

Investment in industrial hemp facilities to provide a viable, sustainable and alternative land use for farmers as well as employment in rural Ireland.

Hemp farming is not the most favourable crop option from an economic standpoint. Farmers already struggling so it would yield poor employment growth vs other crops

A labelling and pricing system showing the climate impact of food products based on criteria such as impact of packaging and distance travelled.

- Not a terrible idea but at what stage is this being done, production? packaging? What about misleading information like the meat which was processed in the UK during the strike but was 100% Irish. Feasibility could create issues

Ireland to outlaw acts of ecocide – being the widespread and systematic loss of ecosystems, including climate and cultural damage.

Pretty sure this is still under review already in the 2016 Wildlife Bill (ammendment). Could go at loggerheads with the demand for housing though.

Protect existing forests and make compulsory that at least 10% of all land owned for agricultural uses is dedicated to forestry.

Who subsidized the already struggling farmers as a result of a 10% loss of yield?

A targeted nationwide Information campaign to educate the population about the climate crisis regarding the causes, the effects and the solutions.

Information is always a good thing but given solutions can't be agreed will this be debated or mandated?

Mandatory "Sustainability" education from primary level to the workplace including a new compulsory Junior Cycle & optional Leaving Certificate subject.

Should coincide with a personal finance subject in order to make sustainability something incorporated in a life no point in having a sustainable template if people can't afford to implement it.

Youth Assembly on Climate Change

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