Youth Assembly on Climate Change

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 2:12pm #1

Is it wrong to be cynical about the Youth Assembly on climate change in the Dail?

No Youth Assembly about the housing crisis, health crisis, political corruption or Irish unification but a Youth Assembly on the climate crisis. Why?

Do the participants represent the views of young people in Ireland or do they just represent young people who are concerned about climate change?

Is it appropriate that only young people from one viewpoint were invited to participate in a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy?

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 2:15pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is it wrong to be cynical about the Youth Assembly on climate change in the Dail?

No Youth Assembly about the housing crisis, health crisis, political corruption or Irish unification but a Youth Assembly on the climate crisis. Why?

Do the participants represent the views of young people in Ireland or do they just represent young people who are concerned about climate change?

Is it appropriate that only young people from one viewpoint were invited to participate in a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy?

It's important that young people have their say, it will be their country to inherit after all. That said, you'd have to be concerned with the lack of diversity of views.

Thelonious Monk · 15-11-2019 2:38pm

The journal commentors and boards.ie dont believe in climate change or the fact we are destroying the natural world but i dont think its a good representation of irish society and their views in general.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 2:42pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The journal commentors and boards.ie dont believe in climate change or the fact we are destroying the natural world but i dont think its a good representation of irish society and their views in general.

Do you think that the youth assembly of 100% of young people concerned about climate change is reflective of the views of young people as a whole. Is there no room for even one or two dissenting voices out of 157 delegates?

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 2:43pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The journal commentors and boards.ie dont believe in climate change or the fact we are destroying the natural world but i dont think its a good representation of irish society and their views in general.

I don't think that's accurate. There are strong views on both sides of the debate and they get aired regularly here.

On the basis of the amount of littering that goes on outside my local school, they're are more than a few young people that couldn't give two hoots about the environment. I somehow suspect that that cavalier attitude won't get an airing in the chamber today.

uck51js9zml2yt · 15-11-2019 2:47pm

Kow towing to kids. What next?

riffmongous · 15-11-2019 2:52pm

Jon Agreeable Muslin wrote: »

Kow towing to kids. What next?

In what way are they kow towing to kids?

KSU · 15-11-2019 2:52pm

Smart

Let those not paying taxes reaffirm the Governments proposals to implement more and fresh "carbon" taxes.

I have a feeling it might be the first public body they listen to wholeheartedly

Graces7 · 15-11-2019 2:54pm

riffmongous wrote: »

In what way are they kow towing to kids?

I think maybe he is being … humourous!

gozunda · 15-11-2019 2:55pm

KSU wrote: »

Smart

Let those not paying taxes reaffirm the Governments proposals to implement more and fresh "carbon" taxes.

I have a feeling it might be the first public body they listen to wholeheartedly

Better idea. Let's tax the kids so they get to pay their fair share of carbon emissions. That should raise the heat of the topic at the assembly - plus the government gets to widen the tax base. Win win ....

Field east · 15-11-2019 3:02pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't think that's accurate. There are strong views on both sides of the debate and they get aired regularly here.

On the basis of the amount of littering that goes on outside my local school, they're are more than a few young people that couldn't give two hoots about the environment. I somehow suspect that that cavalier attitude won't get an airing in the chamber today.

Having listened to a number. Of the attendance being interviewed the general gist of these interviews was how excited they are to be in the hallowed grounds of the dail, etc, etc, in that vein. Climate change issues kind of took a back seat. So did their ‘teachers ‘ forget to ‘school’ them not to lose the run of themselves

riffmongous · 15-11-2019 3:03pm

KSU wrote: »

Smart

Let those not paying taxes reaffirm the Governments proposals to implement more and fresh "carbon" taxes.

I have a feeling it might be the first public body they listen to wholeheartedly

gozunda wrote: »

Better idea. Let's tax the kids so they get to pay their fair share of carbon emissions. That should raise the heat of the topic at the assembly - plus the government gets to widen the tax base. Win win ....

The kids will probably end paying more of any new taxes than either of ye over their lifetime.. no harm in them having a chance to discuss it

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:05pm

gozunda wrote: »

Better idea. Let's tax the kids so they get to pay their fair share of carbon emissions. That should raise the heat of the topic at the assembly - plus the government gets to widen the tax base. Win win ....

I’ve heard of “No taxation without representation” but never “No representation without taxation”.

Would it be acceptable to have a youth assembly on Irish reunification to which only those in favour of Irish reunification were invited? No, it would be seen as unrepresentative, discriminatory and undemocratic. But if the subject is climate change those principles don’t apply.

Richard Hillman · 15-11-2019 3:07pm

Absolute nonsense. RTE are just auditioning for their star of Climate Change, who will of course have great time for RTE for giving them the platform to launch a career in Green Socialism.

I imagine it's everyone around the chamber agreeing with each other, whilst trying to out-do one another in the hysteria stakes.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:07pm

riffmongous wrote: »

The kids will probably end paying more of any new taxes than either of ye over their lifetime.. no harm in them having a chance to discuss it

The “discussion” involves one opinion.

Strazdas · 15-11-2019 3:12pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is it wrong to be cynical about the Youth Assembly on climate change in the Dail?

No Youth Assembly about the housing crisis, health crisis, political corruption or Irish unification but a Youth Assembly on the climate crisis. Why?

Do the participants represent the views of young people in Ireland or do they just represent young people who are concerned about climate change?

Is it appropriate that only young people from one viewpoint were invited to participate in a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy?

The idea for the Youth Assembly mainly came about because of Greta Thunberg and the school strike protests (which have only been taking place for 12 months or so).

Without Greta, this Youth Assembly wouldn't even be happening today.

Stevieluvsye · 15-11-2019 3:15pm

Ah FFS not one of these again, every different forum it's climate change this and climate change that

SEPT 23 1989 · 15-11-2019 3:15pm

If the end of the world is truly nigh they should spend the rest of their short lives enjoying themselves

AlanG · 15-11-2019 3:18pm

This is no harm as long as the kids were randomly selected and are not just mates of TD's.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:20pm

Strazdas wrote: »

The idea for the Youth Assembly mainly came about because of Greta Thunberg and the school strike protests (which have only been taking place for 12 months or so).

Without Greta, this Youth Assembly wouldn't even be happening today.

Do you think a Youth Assembly would be allowed to take place to highlight other issues that effect young people such as participation in a European Army, a United Ireland etc? Is it only because the participants are broadly in line with Government policy that the discussion is allowed to take place? Any issues where a diversity of opinion existed, such as the issues above, would never be entertained in a Youth Assembly.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:21pm

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Ah FFS not one of these again, every different forum it's climate change this and climate change that

Have you watched TV or read a newspaper lately. The climate crisis is everywhere. Is it really surprising that it is being discussed here?

farna_boy · 15-11-2019 3:23pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is it wrong to be cynical about the Youth Assembly on climate change in the Dail?

No Youth Assembly about the housing crisis, health crisis, political corruption or Irish unification but a Youth Assembly on the climate crisis. Why?

Do the participants represent the views of young people in Ireland or do they just represent young people who are concerned about climate change?

Is it appropriate that only young people from one viewpoint were invited to participate in a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy?

None of the crises you raise have the potential to have the same impact on every young person as climate change has.

If the problems relating to climate change aren't addressed, all of the above will be minor inconveniences at best by the time the youth are grown up.

With regards differeing view points, would you also support anti-vaxxers on health boards, flat-earthers on scientific boards or racists/xenophobes on immigration boards?

gozunda · 15-11-2019 3:24pm

riffmongous wrote: »

The kids will probably end paying more of any new taxes than either of ye over their lifetime.. no harm in them having a chance to discuss it

Well it was a tongue in cheek comment. But no matter - I somehow doubt that tbh. Tax regimes in this country have been punitive for those working as long as I have been around. Though the numbers of those exempted from paying tax and paying low amounts of tax have been growing oddly enough. It's just a smaller number squeezed for ever more government revenue. If the kids really want to make a positive impact - the idea of paying their share - would certainly sharpen their awareness of been driven to school, disposable fashion etc. Whilst obviousley impracticable - the idea just might make them think a bit deeper than finger pointing, blaming the adults and screaming 'how dare you'...

Strazdas · 15-11-2019 3:27pm

AlanG wrote: »

This is no harm as long as the kids were randomly selected and are not just mates of TD's.

I believe around 1000 students applied after it was advertised and it was whittled down to 157 in the end.

Graces7 · 15-11-2019 3:29pm

gozunda wrote: »

Well it was a tongue in cheek comment. But no matter - I somehow doubt that tbh. Tax regimes in this country have been punitive for those working as long as I have been around. Though the numbers of those exempted from paying tax and paying low amounts of tax have been growing oddly enough. It's just a smaller number squeezed for ever more government revenue. If the kids really want to make a positive impact - the idea of paying their share - would certainly sharpen their awareness of been driven to school, disposable fashion etc. Whilst obviousley impracticable - the idea just might make them think a bit deeper than finger pointing, blaming the adults and screaming 'how dare you'...

:eek: :rolleyes:

nullzero · 15-11-2019 3:30pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you think that the youth assembly of 100% of young people concerned about climate change is reflective of the views of young people as a whole. Is there no room for even one or two dissenting voices out of 157 delegates?

Welcome to the modern world, dissenting voices aren't allowed, but it's all OK, don't worry about it.

riffmongous · 15-11-2019 3:34pm

gozunda wrote: »

Well it was a tongue in cheek comment. But no matter - I somehow doubt that tbh. Tax regimes in this country have been punitive for those working as long as I have been around. Though the numbers of those exempted from paying tax and paying low amounts of tax have been growing oddly enough. It's just a smaller number squeezed for ever more government revenue. If the kids really want to make a positive impact - the idea of paying their share - would certainly sharpen their awareness of been driven to school, disposable fashion etc. Whilst obviousley impracticable - the idea just might make them think a bit deeper than finger pointing, blaming the adults and screaming 'how dare you'...

What I meant was that you'll be in pension soon enough (relatively speaking) where as they will be paying any new tax for the entirety of their working life. And I'd think most of the ones driven enough to take part in something like this will not end up in the lower tax exemption bands.

I'd also think then and at the very least hope that the ones there today will also be a bit brighter than the 'how dare you' crowd, considering you had to go to the effort to apply to be there today, I'd say it as a fair assumption. Let's see what they come up with anyway before writing them off

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:35pm

farna_boy wrote: »

None of the crises you raise have the potential to have the same impact on every young person as climate change has.

If the problems relating to climate change aren't addressed, all of the above will be minor inconveniences at best by the time the youth are grown up.

With regards differeing view points, would you also support anti-vaxxers on health boards, flat-earthers on scientific boards or racists/xenophobes on immigration boards?

I would argue that the potential to be called on to fight in a future war would have a greater impact on these young people’s lives than the effects of climate change. I would also argue that Ireland’s ability to impact global climate change is so insignificant that even if all the policies they propose were adopted immediately, their impact on climate change would be negligible.

We cannot have a discussion where only one view point is articulated. People of varying opinion are elected as public representatives precisely because they reflect a diversity of opinion.

Stevieluvsye · 15-11-2019 3:35pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Have you watched TV or read a newspaper lately. The climate crisis is everywhere. Is it really surprising that it is being discussed here?

After Hours, Weather, at least three in IMHO and IMHO it isn't a topic for after hours

PS
It's all bull**** anyway

Strazdas · 15-11-2019 3:36pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ve heard of “No taxation without representation” but never “No representation without taxation”.

Would it be acceptable to have a youth assembly on Irish reunification to which only those in favour of Irish reunification were invited? No, it would be seen as unrepresentative, discriminatory and undemocratic. But if the subject is climate change those principles don’t apply.

I doubt you would find many climate change deniers among children and teenagers, if any (such people are usually much older and right wing conservatives etc).

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:39pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I doubt you would find many climate change deniers among children and teenagers, if any (such people are usually much older and right wing conservatives etc).

So the minority should be excluded from a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy. I see.

topper75 · 15-11-2019 3:42pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I believe around 1000 students applied after it was advertised and it was whittled down to 157 in the end.

I'm surprised there wasn't a Saturday night Cowell-style premium number to vote on. Missed a few €€€ there lads - ye are losing the edge.

Skylinehead · 15-11-2019 3:46pm

gozunda wrote: »

Better idea. Let's tax the kids so they get to pay their fair share of carbon emissions.

Anything they buy is taxed (VAT).

What else do you propose taxing? Their income? Lets say 50%. Of 0, which is...0.

Strazdas · 15-11-2019 3:50pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So the minority should be excluded from a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy. I see.

I think one or two dissenting voices telling the rest of the delegates they are wrong about just about everything would be disruptive and would achieve nothing.

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 3:53pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I think one or two dissenting voices telling the rest of the delegates they are wrong about just about everything would be disruptive and would achieve nothing.

What's the point of there can be no dissent?

Aside from promoting government policy and a photo-op of course?

Strazdas · 15-11-2019 3:55pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What's the point of there can be no dissent?

Aside from promoting government policy and a photo-op of course?

The Assembly is an ideas forum where delegates suggest solutions to climate change. Someone going in and telling everyone that climate change is a hoax and doesn't exist would be a bit bonkers in such a setting.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 3:56pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I think one or two dissenting voices telling the rest of the delegates they are wrong about just about everything would be disruptive and would achieve nothing.

The North Korean Communist Party think the same.

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 3:57pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Anything they buy is taxed (VAT).

What else do you propose taxing? Their income? Lets say 50%. Of 0, which is...0.

Presumably he means tax the parents for expenditure on children.

Presumably this would mean carbon levies on things aimed at or facilitating children: such as clothes, school books, childcare, toys and gadgets, junk food, holidays etc.

Micky 32 · 15-11-2019 3:59pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Have you watched TV or read a newspaper lately. The climate crisis is everywhere. Is it really surprising that it is being discussed here?

Is it? I was in the USA last week and not one person mentioned or did i hear anyone crying about it.

Hector Savage · 15-11-2019 4:00pm

Same kids that are driven into school every day in parents SUV.
That are always on their phones/tablets/laptops - I guess those batteries just mine and charge themselves.

Wonder when they are off on their next family holiday too ?
The hypocrisy of the movement is incredible really.

Skylinehead · 15-11-2019 4:03pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Presumably he means tax the parents for expenditure on children.

Presumably this would mean carbon levies on things aimed at or facilitating children: such as clothes, school books, childcare, toys and gadgets, junk food, holidays etc.

If he means tax the parents, he should say so. He didn't.

Utterly stupid idea anyway, it's not the kids that caused any of this.

KSU · 15-11-2019 4:03pm

riffmongous wrote: »

The kids will probably end paying more of any new taxes than either of ye over their lifetime.. no harm in them having a chance to discuss it

The problem with it is that kids are looking at it from a myopic view, look at GT having a pop in interviews with anyone who makes any sort of debate based on economics.

Without a fuller view of the implications kids are being coaxed into supporting further taxation without a broader sense of the implications.

People for the most part aim to protect the elderly from making bad decisions due to dimished capacity yet somehow anyone doing so with regards to youth is silenced due to the orchestrated vilification of those with legitimate concerns with the direction modern society is taking.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2019 4:04pm

Strazdas wrote: »

The Assembly is an ideas forum where delegates suggest solutions to climate change. Someone going in and telling everyone that climate change is a hoax and doesn't exist would be a bit bonkers in such a setting.

No. The assembly is part of the 100th year anniversary commemoration of the first Dail. It is dubbed as an opportunity for young people to express their opinions and have their voices heard.
The selection process is designed to represent people from different genders, backgrounds and parts of the country. Diversity in everything but opinion.

Calhoun · 15-11-2019 4:04pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is it wrong to be cynical about the Youth Assembly on climate change in the Dail?

No Youth Assembly about the housing crisis, health crisis, political corruption or Irish unification but a Youth Assembly on the climate crisis. Why?

Do the participants represent the views of young people in Ireland or do they just represent young people who are concerned about climate change?

Is it appropriate that only young people from one viewpoint were invited to participate in a discussion in the seat of Irish democracy?

I don't think it's wrong to be cynical as we have seen in politics that adults are not above using children because how could you attack a point a child has made.

They have a right to have their say but people also have a right to be critical of their solutions /opinions. There is an air of self righteousness about them though that won't win allot of folk over. Although it could just be RTE inflating trying to be relevant.

ednwireland · 15-11-2019 4:06pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

Is it? I was in the USA last week and not one person mentioned or did i hear anyone crying about it.

you flew to the states ? how dare you !

topper75 · 15-11-2019 4:06pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Same kids that are driven into school every day in parents SUV.
That are always on their phones/tablets/laptops - I guess those batteries just mine and charge themselves.

Wonder when they are off on their next family holiday too ?
The hypocrisy of the movement is incredible really.

This country has seen all this before. Some of the shower who were lecturing us about sex outside of marriage fathered kids on the sly. Politicians lecturing about us living beyond our means and themselves buying Charvet shirts in Paris.

It comes in different guises through the years, but is a key part of the character of the Irish nation. All you can do is laugh.

MrMusician18 · 15-11-2019 4:07pm

Strazdas wrote: »

The Assembly is an ideas forum where delegates suggest solutions to climate change. Someone going in and telling everyone that climate change is a hoax and doesn't exist would be a bit bonkers in such a setting.

So there's no room for the young people who think that the environmentally destructive behavior that they themselves engage in is ok.

It's very easy to say that carbon taxes on fuel should increase, but there seems to be little understanding of the consequences of such policies (particularly among the young people whose views are presented in the media). The need to understand that the future they're fighting for will inevitably lead to a lower standard of living in Ireland. If they understand that and the consequences of that well that's their future inheritance. And that's fine.

But it appears to me that there isn't even a skin deep understanding among many young people about this aspect.

15-11-2019 4:10pm

It's nonsense. A political move. A bunch of kids repeating what was trending on twitter yesterday

Boom_Bap · 15-11-2019 4:11pm

It's taking kids to show how idiotic adults have been.

KSU · 15-11-2019 4:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's nonsense. A political move. A bunch of kids repeating what was trending on twitter yesterday

Twitter for iPhone, powered by fossil fuels, paid for by mommy and daddy :cool:

Skylinehead · 15-11-2019 4:16pm

Moved to CA btw.

Youth Assembly on Climate Change

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