Unwelcome Lodger

Telly · 03-04-2020 1:21pm

What did he say when the cops were there?

housetypeb · 03-04-2020 1:29pm

Ballso wrote: »

Spoken like someone from the 1700s.

What kind of oddball buys a property then immediately gives up their privacy for profit to allow some random stranger to move in. Oddballs.

A man's home is his castle, in other words he can do whatever the **** he want to with it.

gmisk · 03-04-2020 1:33pm

Wow what a horrible situation. You have had lots of good advice already so hope it works out for you

Ballso · 03-04-2020 1:38pm

housetypeb wrote: »

A man's home is his castle, in other words he can do whatever the **** he want to with it.

"My home is my castle" and "I'll rent out rooms in my house to strangers for money" seem like opposite approaches to me.

Why would you buy a property only to give up your privacy and security by sharing it with strangers? It's weird.

housetypeb · 03-04-2020 1:50pm

Ballso wrote: »

"My home is my castle" and "I'll rent out rooms in my house to strangers for money" seem like opposite approaches to me.

Why would you buy a property only to give up your privacy and security by sharing it with strangers? It's weird.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

His house,his choice,his rules.

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 1:53pm

Unfortunately due to broken relationships, inability to pay off mortgage ( now in vulture territory) and one singleincome and a desire to keep the roof over my head .... this oddball made a deal with the devil not to give into the vultures approach of ' give up , get out and go away' ..... yes a man's home maybe his castle ....but not always the ground its situated on !

Ballso · 03-04-2020 1:54pm

housetypeb wrote: »

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

His house,his choice,his rules.

Sure, still a bit sad though. Let's not pretend these folks are the adults in the room just because they own property. Most of them would seriously struggle if it wasn't for exploiting a housing crisis to rent rooms to the most vulnerable. Nobody in their right mind would live with an owner occupier if they had a choice.

MissShihTzu · 03-04-2020 1:59pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Possibly because he has nowhere else to live.

Ah, poor soul. If the lodger has nowhere else to live, then he should behave himself, and not act like a pr1ck!! Then all would be cool...

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 2:03pm

Ahh ha ...thinges get curiouser and curiouser ...the lodger has now intimated that for a fee he would be wiling to leave ..... this makes me all the more determined to Fcuk him out in a few days as how ****ing dare he try to monetize a situation like this, in a time of crisis for all of us all ...its no wonder he was being so vehement about staying ....he could use the situation to his benefit ...

housetypeb · 03-04-2020 2:08pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Ahh ha ...thinges get curiouser and curiouser ...the lodger has now intimated that for a fee he would be wiling to leave ..... this makes me all the more determined to Fcuk him out in a few days as how ****ing dare he try to monetize a situation like this, in a time of crisis for all of us all ...its no wonder he was being so vehement about staying ....he could use the situation to his benefit ...

For **** sake, go down to the Gardai station and tell them that you are evicting an unwelcome guest from your home,that refuses to leave, and you expect there to be trouble and you need them present as a precaution.
This guy is walking all over you, he has no rights.

MissShihTzu · 03-04-2020 2:14pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Ahh ha ...thinges get curiouser and curiouser ...the lodger has now intimated that for a fee he would be wiling to leave ..... this makes me all the more determined to Fcuk him out in a few days as how ****ing dare he try to monetize a situation like this, in a time of crisis for all of us all ...its no wonder he was being so vehement about staying ....he could use the situation to his benefit ...

This idiot is either high or mad. Either way he should get his money back from the dealer!! Does this fcukwit not realise he is not a tenant?

Man, look! You've messed around for long enough. Sod the week's notice - All bets are OFF!! Get him out - NOW!!!

Ballso · 03-04-2020 2:15pm

housetypeb wrote: »

For **** sake, go down to the Gardai station and tell them that you are evicting an unwelcome guest from your home,that refuses to leave, and you expect there to be trouble and you need them present as a precaution.
This guy is walking all over you, he has no rights.

It's nothing to do with the Garda, its a commercial arrangement and the OPs problem. This "no rights" lark works both ways

Telly · 03-04-2020 2:16pm

Get the cops up to the house and tell them there is an unwanted guest who is trying to blackmail you and you feel very unsafe.

pablo128 · 03-04-2020 2:16pm

Does this guy leave the house at all? The very next time he steps outside the front door, lock it and throw his clothes into bags and drop them out the window.

Caranica · 03-04-2020 2:42pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Ahh ha ...thinges get curiouser and curiouser ...the lodger has now intimated that for a fee he would be wiling to leave ..... this makes me all the more determined to Fcuk him out in a few days as how ****ing dare he try to monetize a situation like this, in a time of crisis for all of us all ...its no wonder he was being so vehement about staying ....he could use the situation to his benefit ...

That's blackmail. Negates the need to see out the notice imo, get rid now.

Yellow_Fern · 03-04-2020 3:41pm

Ballso wrote: »

Sure, still a bit sad though. Let's not pretend these folks are the adults in the room just because they own property. Most of them would seriously struggle if it wasn't for exploiting a housing crisis to rent rooms to the most vulnerable . Nobody in their right mind would live with an owner occupier if they had a choice.

Offering a room isnt exploiting a housing crisis. It is something that has alway done. I did it ten years ago and I was very grateful to the host for it. I wasnt exploited and I certainly wasnt the 'most vulnerable'. I was a middle class student.

dancingqueen · 03-04-2020 3:45pm

You can pay him alright - with a boot up his hole on the way out the front door

housetypeb · 03-04-2020 3:47pm

Ballso wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the Garda, its a commercial arrangement and the OPs problem. This "no rights" lark works both ways

Jaysus, that's good to know.
No need to be homeless-just visit a friend and never leave.

Yellow_Fern · 03-04-2020 3:55pm

housetypeb wrote: »

Jaysus, that's good to know.
No need to be homeless-just visit a friend and never leave.

It does happen https://www.thejournal.ie/squatter-phibsborough-ordered-to-leave-3309321-Mar2017/

BarryD2 · 03-04-2020 4:20pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Ahh ha ...thinges get curiouser and curiouser ...the lodger has now intimated that for a fee he would be wiling to leave ..... this makes me all the more determined to Fcuk him out in a few days as how ****ing dare he try to monetize a situation like this, in a time of crisis for all of us all ...its no wonder he was being so vehement about staying ....he could use the situation to his benefit ...

What's the fee then? Does it represent value for money to you?

Remember folks, we're only getting one side of the story here. For all we know the OP may be a complete loo laa.

amadangomor · 03-04-2020 4:26pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

What's the fee then? Does it represent value for money to you?

Remember folks, we're only getting one side of the story here. For all we know the OP may be a complete loo laa.

Doesn't matter, both could be loo la or both reasonable people. If the owner wants the licensee out they can get them out.

Yellow_Fern · 03-04-2020 4:29pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

What's the fee then? Does it represent value for money to you?

Remember folks, we're only getting one side of the story here. For all we know the OP may be a complete loo laa.

yes you are correct but from a legal point of view I think there is a sacred right to be a loo laa in your own home.

Ballso · 03-04-2020 4:32pm

amadangomor wrote: »

Doesn't matter, both could be loo la or both reasonable people. If the owner wants the licensee out they can get them out.

Why haven't they then?

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-04-2020 6:12pm

A couple of observations.

It's not a case of no rights - it's a case of very limited rights and notice has to be reasonable, or more common as people do silly things, what's in the contract.

Once the lodger is out, which is not a matter for the guards, any harassment / breach of the peace / attempt to break in is very much is a matter for the guards.

runawaybishop · 03-04-2020 7:29pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

What's the fee then? Does it represent value for money to you?

Remember folks, we're only getting one side of the story here. For all we know the OP may be a complete loo laa.

Barry, you have made it pretty clear you hate all landlords. We take the op at face value, that's how these things work.

Yellow_Fern · 03-04-2020 7:37pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

A couple of observations.

It's not a case of no rights - it's a case of very limited rights and notice has to be reasonable, or more common as people do silly things, what's in the contract.

Once the lodger is out, which is not a matter for the guards, any harassment / breach of the peace / attempt to break in is very much is a matter for the guards.

People should be reasonable and the hosts should be be reasonable but as far as I know there are no contracts with this arrangement and no rights.

It appears that there is trespass in this case which I understand may or may not be civil law but intimidation is not a civil law surely?

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 7:54pm

Just received a call from Threshold asking for my consideration in extending his duration with me ...advised NO way in a zillion years ....they had been copied on all correspondence so they kinda knew hes edited victim story ... and I advised that they were being duped ; that the guy deliberately generated this situation to as he knew he hadn't a leg to stand on; dragged in decent genuine organisations to booster his case, while in the interim , privately generating a hostile situation in my home in an attempt to extort money. Advised that I had to go to my HR department to advise them of my personal situation ; that I expected his irrational behaviour to be aimed at my work ....and they were looking for consideration ???? ...they were being played !
I felt sorry for the girl as she was only doing her job and was obliged to reply ...but had zero knowledge of the antics I had been subjected to .. said , that I have every right to demand his immediate removal , I will stick t the notice period out of respect to people like Threshold, Focus Ireland etc as this would give THEM reasonable time to re home him and I expected THEM to advise him exit my home quietly, before I throw him out . I also went to the guards again,,,, they think I'm demented (!!!! ) , but they just don't want to engage on this territory as think of the negative PR !

RobbieMD · 03-04-2020 8:07pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

I also went to the guards again,,,, they think I'm demented (!!!! ) , but they just don't want to engage on this territory as think of the negative PR !

What do you want the guards to do? Evict him for you?

dubrov · 03-04-2020 8:09pm

RobbieMD wrote:

What do you want the guards to do? Evict him for you?

If he won't leave, what would you do, send him a solicitors letter?

RobbieMD · 03-04-2020 8:12pm

dubrov wrote: »

If he won't leave, what would you do, send him a solicitors letter?

I wouldn’t expect the guards to get rid of him anyway. They have no authority to get involved matters that aren’t criminal.

Dtp1979 · 03-04-2020 8:14pm

The phrase “ who pissed on your cornflakes “ might be more literal in the next few days, op. Keep an eye on him and keep your toothbrush locked up too.

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 8:17pm

if he wont leave .... I am advised by guards , Flac , etc that i can forcibly eject him from my home as an unwelcome guest / invitee and that I have ceased any implied lodgers agreement (which is a personal agreement) , as I am not in receipt of monies and I no longer with to have him in my home ...COVID requirements do not require to retain an abusive guest in my home . ... This will be an interesting interesting few days !

dubrov · 03-04-2020 8:19pm

Rasher1234 wrote:

if he wont leave .... I am advised by guards , Flac , etc that i can forcibly eject him from my home as an unwelcome guest / invitee and that I have ceased any implied lodgers agreement (which is a personal agreement) , as I am not in receipt of monies and I no longer with to have him in my home ...COVID requirements do not require to retain an abusive guest in my home . ... This will be an interesting interesting few days !

But if he is bigger and stronger than you, surely the guards would have to assist?

niallo32 · 03-04-2020 8:28pm

I had two somewhat similar issues where the guards were involved.

1) I had a house rented out by the room (non-Landlord occupied), a tenant left owing me rent and without returning. I returned his HAP cheque to sender and got a string of threatening text messages. I went to the guards in person immediately. They phoned the ex-tenant and advised him to drop the keys that day to the station and cease all contact with me or they would pursue a complaint from me for threatening behaviour etc. He dropped the keys in, never heard from him again and of course never got my outstanding money.

2) My wife rented a room in the same house to a guy while I was away. The day he moved in, she got a call from his ex to say he was a major criminal. I rang him right away to say I was putting the house up for sale and was giving him a months notice but if he preferred he could move out the next day and I'd give him €50 inconvenience money. He agreed to that. I had a friend who is a Detective guard parked outside a few doors up with his partner while the guy moved out. No issue.

The guards won't get involved in a civil dispute if you change the locks and don't answer the door once the requisite notice period has expired and he threatens you, acts in a threatening way etc then call them right away, they will sort it. This guy gave up any right to good will when he started acting the boll*x.

RobbieMD · 03-04-2020 8:29pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

if he wont leave .... I am advised by guards , Flac , etc that i can forcibly eject him from my home as an unwelcome guest / invitee and that I have ceased any implied lodgers agreement (which is a personal agreement) , as I am not in receipt of monies and I no longer with to have him in my home ...COVID requirements do not require to retain an abusive guest in my home . ... This will be an interesting interesting few days !

Tread carefully here. “Forcibly eject” may be construed as assault, if he used force in return on you, he would have a defence. I doubt the guards, FLAC etc would be willing to give evidence, if it went to court, stating you were advised to forcibly eject him then. An unwelcome guest is not a trespasser in the criminal sense. We’ve seen this with the water protest and housing protestors taking over buildings. They took high court injunctions to resolve it, which were initially ignored.

I would try my very best to resolve this without getting into physical confrontation/ assault territory. It may well be the case that you have more to lose than him. If he leaves to go to the shops, and you have the doors locked when he gets back you’re in better territory then.

what? · 03-04-2020 8:31pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Just received a call from Threshold asking for my consideration in extending his duration with me ...advised NO way in a zillion years ....they had been copied on all correspondence so they kinda knew hes edited victim story ... and I advised that they were being duped ; that the guy deliberately generated this situation to as he knew he hadn't a leg to stand on; dragged in decent genuine organisations to booster his case, while in the interim , privately generating a hostile situation in my home in an attempt to extort money. Advised that I had to go to my HR department to advise them of my personal situation ; that I expected his irrational behaviour to be aimed at my work ....and they were looking for consideration ???? ...they were being played !
I felt sorry for the girl as she was only doing her job and was obliged to reply ...but had zero knowledge of the antics I had been subjected to .. said , that I have every right to demand his immediate removal , I will stick t the notice period out of respect to people like Threshold, Focus Ireland etc as this would give THEM reasonable time to re home him and I expected THEM to advise him exit my home quietly, before I throw him out . I also went to the guards again,,,, they think I'm demented (!!!! ) , but they just don't want to engage on this territory as think of the negative PR !

sounds like he believed his own bull**** and found out the hard way...
good on ya OP, is your house

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 8:36pm

NO ...the guards cant assist in a civil matter , HOWEVER if I show that i have been subject to a consistent course of actions (which in individual terms may be viewed as innocent at face value ( yet provocative in actuality )...but taken as a whole and would be be considered as harassment in its totality ..... then they are obliged to act as is then a criminal matter ..... the guards are TOTALLY against being drawn into this as they want (understandably) to keep a neutral PR stance ... the 7 day notice period stands ...I have asked Threshold to rehome him within this period so I can be returned to the quiet enjoyment of my home ...on the 8th day ....I will request their assistance to evict a TRESPASSER .... and they are obliged to attend ...however , I don't want to go thru the drama of this with my neighbours ...but if I have to , I will ...my neighbours know me for the last 20 years and they are aware ...as oddball as we all are (especially myself) , they would not permit this in their home ... I have already mentioned this to them and they are horrified ( yet totally supportive) ... lol.... I think that they are expecting a spectacle ....I should sell pay per view vouchers !

kravmaga · 03-04-2020 8:40pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Hi
Does anyone know of a way to evict a lodger without giving reasonable notice?
I rent a room in my home end relationships have broken down to the extent I want him gone ASAP.
I know he has little or no rights (he is a licencee) and has torn up his 28 day notice and is threatening to call the police on me for harassment ....is there any way I can get rid of him quicker as the situation is very unpleasant in my home.

Do you own the property?

Why has the relationship broken down, every relationship has ups and downs, we all need to pull together during this time of crisis.

You could head to the supermarket, get a few beers, bring them back and have a chat with him man to man over a few cold ones.

It may not be his/her fault as everyone is stressed at the moment with this lock down.

Why is the situation very unpleasant?? Are you harassing him? You mentioned that his was going to call the Garda on you? So maybe you are contributing to the bad atmosphere in the house?

As another poster said it would not look very good now would it to try and evict or get rid of somebody during this lock down period, ie it would not be looked upon very favourable by a Judge or Threshold or any Housing charity.

Sheep Shagger · 03-04-2020 8:51pm

Starting to wonder if the OP is a wind up merchant, has been given plenty of advice (most of it the same) but still entertains this nonsense.

housetypeb · 03-04-2020 8:55pm

Starting to think the same myself.
Knock on his door, tell him to get out, create a scene, call the neighbors or the gardai.
Job done.

Blacktie. · 03-04-2020 9:00pm

Hi OP. If you look though my post history I had something of a similar situation. He had 6 weeks noticed and refused to leave. On the day he was due since he hadn't left at the appointed time I changed the locks packed his stuff up and told him I'd hand it to him at the door. He then threatened me so I let the guards know and dumped all his stuff outside covered up. I believe the guards rang him to tell him they were aware of the situation. He came and took some photos of his things outside and disappeared for a bit. I believe he went to the local garda station to argue his case. He eventually came back, collected his things and left. I sent him back his deposit and haven't heard a word since. This was about a year ago now. Nightmare to deal with at the time.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 9:03pm

the_syco wrote: »

Only if the lodger is a student.

Of life?

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 9:14pm

FYI...

I have connected with a several online articles written by legal specialists of this area ...I have engaged with them and the following is the state of play with regard to lodgers and homeowners in respect of the new COVID legislation :

I have edited it to try give some continuity and immediate relevance to the topic .....

"I followed the trail you advised (Section 3.2 ) of the new act .. for the life of me , I cant see where where the rent a room scenario is included in the overarching redesignation of licensees as tenants ( and thereby have recourse to the RTB in case of disputes) .....Indeed, I think it appears to be the opposite.....

Section 3(2) of the new Act references the 2019 residential tenancy act (Section 37 )....however ....in section 2 of that act, primarily relates to student accomodation but also states at the very end ....

"but does not include a building or part of a building used for the first-mentioned purpose where the licensor (other than a licensor who is not an individual) also resides in the building or part of the building concerned."

Wouldn't this specifically exempt all situations where the lodger is residing with the homeowner and is sharing all ? That's what most seem to be saying .....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...cy-991457.html

also:

https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/st...06534646644738

I contacted the RTB and they specifically confirm that they have no jurisdiction in lodger / homeowner situations....see chat below.....

some commentators are non commital to this (probably their clientele are commercial and the rent a room is too small fry ...who knows?? (I just my my lodger gone ...LOL)

MCCann Fitz / AL Goodbody / Sol.ie eyc

The main thrust of there commentary appears to be addressing those who , whatever reasons directly associated with covid , are financially challenged and are subject to indecision as to potentially being chucked out for potential non payment.

I'm at a loss to see where this impacts lodger/ homeowner engagements , especially when there is hostility nmda antagonism involved (a separate matter again ) ...

Chat transcript

Name: John

Jerry Fri, 04/03/20 10:40:21 am Europe/Dublin

Hello. How may I help you?

John 10:40:32 am

Hi Jerry,
Hope all ok ....Was chatting to you yesterday ...you mentioned that lodger / rent a room scenarios are not covered by RTB disputes mechanism
Wanted to know if that is still the same in light of the recent amendments by the Govt who deem 'licenses' to be tenancies .....from what i see , they refer to licences which are commercial and and also those attaching to student accomodation.
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/guidance_document_support_for_landlords_and_tenants.pdf
But not to a lodger / rent a room situation

Jerry 10:47:47 am

The exemptions remain the same regarding tenancies in which the landlord and tenant share the same self-contained property. Student-specific accommodation, which was previously considered a license agreement, now falls under the RTB's remit. However if you are the landlord living with a licensee/lodger this is still exempt.

John 10:49:22 am

Thank you very much
have a great day

Jerry 10:49:36 am

It was nice talking to you. Have a great day, goodbye!

Jerry archived the chat
10:49:47 am

I have gone to great lengths to identify and Challenge the the misalignment of the currently amended legislation to the lodger / homeowner senario

RTB advise northing to do with them !

IPOA state Covid has zero impact on the licensee positioning !

FLAC says get the man out before it escalates (as is their experience) !

HAP don't want to be involved as they process just the finances and have zero duty of care when it comes to you selecting your lodger.

Threshold advise send him to the nearest Office to make alternative arrangements !

Victim crime line state that harassment just has to be a single incidence ( someone tell the guards !)

The Guards don't want to get involved as they will do their best to have it remain in the civil arena , (probably so they don't get negative PR in this environment)

Citizen advice ( and other organisations ) remain silent on the issue ,...as its their remit to assist homeless , not advise a potential audience of what NOT they can do !

I hope this is of assistance to folks ...

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 9:20pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Starting to wonder if the OP is a wind up merchant, has been given plenty of advice (most of it the same) but still entertains this nonsense.

Hi thank you for you commentary..I understand where you are coming from .... I want to do what is right and to be seen to to what is right and not to take advice off keyboard warriors without making primary investigations myself to satisfy my the correctness of my actions ...as I'm the one who is in the firing line if I put one step out ....also , I'm not a bad ba$tard in that I have a conscience and I'm not out to 'get anyone' ...just to do what I believe is right so I can sleep at night !

BarryD2 · 03-04-2020 9:22pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Barry, you have made it pretty clear you hate all landlords. We take the op at face value, that's how these things work.

Of course I don't hate landlords. But only a fool takes a story at full face value. There's always another side, assuming there is a story.

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Starting to wonder if the OP is a wind up merchant, has been given plenty of advice (most of it the same) but still entertains this nonsense.

................

Dtp1979 · 03-04-2020 9:23pm

When it gets closer to eviction time, I think it’s only right that this thread is moved to Afterhours

Rasher1234 · 03-04-2020 9:24pm

Whats afterhours ?
This is my first time on here

Dtp1979 · 03-04-2020 9:36pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Whats afterhours ?
This is my first time on here

https://touch.boards.ie/forum/7

Caranica · 03-04-2020 9:47pm

I don't understand why Threshold got involved. They are a tenants' rights organisation. Your lodger is not a tenant. I wouldn't have engaged with them.

OP, like the other homeowner on here who only got rid of a lodger this week having given notice in January, you have made a rod for your own back with this notice. If you're going to have lodgers in your own home, you need to be strong and not let them walk all over you. As I said earlier, once you got wind of the extortion attempt they should have been shown the door then and there. It's going to be a VERY long week for you

TheRepentent · 03-04-2020 9:49pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Whats afterhours ?
This is my first time on here

One of the crappier forums on boards..people post inane sh1te

Unwelcome Lodger

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