Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

micosoft · 05-12-2019 8:57am

A review of the new A321 AL Europe business class product which is the same as the TAL product with the notable exception that catering is the basic Europe "Ham and cheese toasties" catering (but free).

Seems a bizarre product tbh - I get the "stay in same class" but for the last 60-90 min? Lie flat beds yet down market catering? Perhaps it's fleet flexibility or cross over but will be interesting getting a lie flat for Dublin to London!

Van.Bosch · 05-12-2019 11:05am

forestlover wrote: »

Any suggestions for what seats to choose for a super nervous flyer on the DUB - MIA route? Looking forward to the trip, travelling via Miami to Costa Rica with aerlingus and AA but am deathly afraid of flying, long haul will be the test of endurance

I’d go with a window, everything is calm when you look out. It’s a pity you can’t sit in the cockpit, was on a tiny plane years ago and there was no door to cockpit. The plane was bouncing around everywhere, you could see in to the pilots, calm as anything, normal for them, was very reassuring to a nervous passenger nearby.

kevinandrew · 06-12-2019 2:03am

micosoft wrote: »

A review of the new A321 AL Europe business class product which is the same as the TAL product with the notable exception that catering is the basic Europe "Ham and cheese toasties" catering (but free).

Seems a bizarre product tbh - I get the "stay in same class" but for the last 60-90 min? Lie flat beds yet down market catering? Perhaps it's fleet flexibility or cross over but will be interesting getting a lie flat for Dublin to London!

It's not business class.

Aer Space is marketed and sold as a 'premium short haul' product, the airline is very careful not to use the phrase 'business class' anywhere when describing it.

https://www.aerlingus.com/travel-information/aer-lingus-news/aerspace/

Note how the lie flat seat is never mentioned, this is because should be considered the exception, not the rule, when it comes to this product. It's merely an added bonus for most.

The A321LR on select European routes is mostly about utilisation of the aircraft rather than the desire to provide full flat bed business product on short haul.

micosoft · 08-12-2019 11:42am

kevinandrew wrote: »

It's not business class.

etc...

I'm unclear what you are suggesting? Why do you assume Aer Lingus will sell this as Aer Space and not attempt to monetize a full business cabin (albeit with non-business catering). Do you not think they will attempt to sell J class tickets if they can?

Edit. Best explanation here: https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-intra-europe-business-class/

Tenger · 08-12-2019 11:49am

goingnowhere wrote: »

........ I'm not a fan of the overnight flight, the A row has better leg room in bed mode.

They do need to renumber the A seats for consistency across the fleet, it's quite annoying when a -200 shows up.

I thought all the seats were the same, apart from some having the little stowage closet?

Is there a marked difference in the A seats between the 200 versus 300?

Locker10a · 08-12-2019 12:14pm

micosoft wrote: »

I'm unclear what you are suggesting? Why do you assume Aer Lingus will sell this as Aer Space and not attempt to monetize a full business cabin (albeit with non-business catering). Do you not think they will attempt to sell J class tickets if they can?

Edit. Best explanation here: https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-intra-europe-business-class/

Isn’t it the exact same as what they’ve done for years when the a330s were used on Malaga and Faro etc, it’s essentially a seat upgrade, nothing more, only now with Aer Space you’ve pre-paid for something from the buy on board.

goingnowhere · 08-12-2019 12:52pm

Tenger wrote: »

I thought all the seats were the same, apart from some having the little stowage closet?

Is there a marked difference in the A seats between the 200 versus 300?

The A seats either have table on the window side or aisle side, the position alternates depending on -200 or -300

Rows 2/4/6 HK are to be avoided, these are the smallest space seats

alancostello · 08-12-2019 5:28pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

The A seats either have table on the window side or aisle side, the position alternates depending on -200 or -300

Rows 2/4/6 HK are to be avoided, these are the smallest space seats

To be avoided for a solo traveller. If you’re travelling as a couple some would prefer to be together and still have a window.

L1011 · 09-12-2019 5:00pm

sherology wrote: »

Two'a'them please

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aer-lingus-revealed-as-customer-for-two-more-a330s-462759/

I'm pretty certain this is a really badly written article and just covering the two we knew about (one of which is 'delivered' already, as the article even mentions) rather than two further. I don't think there are any unidentified 330ceos in the production order and we're nearly at the end of that.

sherology · 09-12-2019 5:22pm

L1011 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain this is a really badly written article and just covering the two we knew about (one of which is 'delivered' already, as the article even mentions) rather than two further. I don't think there are any unidentified 330ceos in the production order and we're nearly at the end of that.

It is somewhat confusing to read... The total numbers EI has are 9, 10, and 11 throughout so not sure how correct it is. It has been up since before noon, so nobody has corrected them thus far.

sherology · 09-12-2019 6:11pm

sherology wrote: »

It is somewhat confusing to read... The total numbers EI has are 9, 10, and 11 throughout so not sure how correct it is. It has been up since before noon, so nobody has corrected them thus far.

Yeah... It's been reprinted and better edited on simplyflying... So the 2 newbies (recent delivered) are the two referred to on flightglobal.

kevinandrew · 09-12-2019 6:24pm

I also think this article is confusing EI-EIM and ‘EIN with additional orders.

As of December 2019, Aer Lingus has the following wide body fleet;

A330-200 - 5

EI-LAX
E-EWR
EI-DAA
EI-DUO
EI-GEY

A330-300 - 9

EI-DUZ
EI-EAV
EI-EDY
EI-ELA
EI-FNG
EI-FNH
EI-GAJ
EI-GCF
EI-EIM

On order - 1

A330-300

EI-EIN

Total: 15 (10 + 5)

The article mistakenly suggests the delivery of EI-EIM has brought to the total of A330-300s to 10 when it has in fact brought it to 9, it will be EIN’ that brings them to 10 in total plus the 5 A330-200s already in the fleet.

salmocab · 09-12-2019 6:52pm

A bit glib and I’m a bit of a lurker here but will we be seeing EI-EIO. I really want to see that and I know it’s childish but I love a cheap giggle.

Tenger · 09-12-2019 7:02pm

salmocab wrote: »

A bit glib and I’m a bit of a lurker here but will we be seeing EI-EIO. I really want to see that and I know it’s childish but I love a cheap giggle.

Nope.
EI-EIO is already taken, has been for years now. A light aircraft in the south or Southwest.

EIM and EIN are the last 2 passenger ceo's on the Airbus production list. Have been marked for EI for at least 2 months now. So that Flight global article is sloppily written.

donvito99 · 09-12-2019 7:40pm

Amazing to think that not too long ago EI only had x3 332s and x4 333s

cson · 09-12-2019 8:16pm

Some of this is IAG using DUB as an LHR capacity release valve I would imagine.

Tenger · 09-12-2019 9:07pm

I must be quite old as I clearly remember when they only had 5 A333s.......I was onboard LAX when it was 3 weeks old!!!

cson wrote: »

Some of this is IAG using DUB as an LHR capacity release valve I would imagine.

I doubt it to be honest. The shift to using DUB as a hub for onward travel had happened before the IAG takeover. But pricing themselves under the other competitors (BA included) they are taking traffic from AA,UA,DL,VS,AC,AF,KL and BA.

salmocab · 09-12-2019 10:19pm

Tenger wrote: »

Nope.
EI-EIO is already taken, has been for years now. A light aircraft in the south or Southwest.

Cheers, I’m disappointed I assumed it was going in some sort of alphabetical order.

peter1892 · 09-12-2019 10:36pm

Tenger wrote: »

Nope.
EI-EIO is already taken, has been for years now. A light aircraft in the south or Southwest.

It used to be on a Piper Seneca that was based out of Weston, but the a/c in question suffered a landing gear failure and I don't think it was ever put back into service.

The reg may have been reallocated.

I did hear a story once of a pilot having to repeat the reg to ATC, along the lines of 'Echo India Echo India October as in old McDonald!', but that could just be the kind of urban legend that grows around a smoky coffee room in Weston

Noxegon · 09-12-2019 11:23pm

Tenger wrote: »

I must be quite old as I clearly remember when they only had 5 A333s.......I was onboard LAX when it was 3 weeks old!!!

I can actually outdo that one; I was a passenger on one of the first A330 transatlantic flights in May 1994. I wonder if my parents still have the boarding pass...

Captain_Crash · 10-12-2019 8:17am

Noxegon wrote: »

I can actually outdo that one; I was a passenger on one of the first A330 transatlantic flights in May 1994. I wonder if my parents still have the boarding pass...

Can't outdo that, but can nearly match it, my first EI A330 flight was June 1994.

goingnowhere · 10-12-2019 8:34am

EI was the first TATL operator with the A330 and will get the last A330 ceo

And all because Bernie Cahill cut a deal with Airbus on the side that no one knew about and 3 A330's appeared in Dublin within a few months back in 1994.

HTCOne · 10-12-2019 12:29pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI was the first TATL operator with the A330 and will get the last A330 ceo

And all because Bernie Cahill cut a deal with Airbus on the side that no one knew about and 3 A330's appeared in Dublin within a few months back in 1994.

And the story goes he got the first 2 for free in exchange for doing all the ETOPS proving work. #4 (EI-JFK) was an opportunistic acquisition after Air Inter folded IIRC, hence the Tourism Ireland livery and no IFE whatsoever.

ozzy jr · 10-12-2019 3:17pm

I flew on the A330 in May 1994, but from Manchester to Dublin. I presume this would have been one of the very first Aer Lingus flights to get crew used to it etc.

goingnowhere · 10-12-2019 5:52pm

HTCOne wrote: »

And the story goes he got the first 2 for free in exchange for doing all the ETOPS proving work. #4 (EI-JFK) was an opportunistic acquisition after Air Inter folded IIRC, hence the Tourism Ireland livery and no IFE whatsoever.

Airbus had a pile of white tails and needed to generate sales, ETOPS gave them TATL options from most EU capitals to East Coast US.

At the time the 777 hadn't flown yet and the A330-300 was the largest twin jet in the world.

Tenger · 10-12-2019 7:25pm

The first 2 weren't free, but the large amount of spare parts that Airbus sent with them were. The ETOPS proving of the aircraft was in return for a hefty discount on the first orders.

Airbus had a lot riding on the aircraft so wanted EI to have no technical issues at all.

Van.Bosch · 10-12-2019 8:41pm

Tenger wrote: »

The first 2 weren't free, but the large amount of spare parts that Airbus sent with them were. The ETOPS proving of the aircraft was in return for a hefty discount on the first orders.

Airbus had a lot riding on the aircraft so wanted EI to have no technical issues at all.

I assume the plan was always to get it ETOPs certified or did it have a market without it and this was a bonus?

L1011 · 10-12-2019 8:44pm

They needed ETOPS to get beyond a replication of the old A300 market which would not have been enough

HTCOne · 10-12-2019 8:57pm

The 767 already had ETOPS 180, which required no more than 1 engine shut down per 50,000 hours of operations. Naturally this took quite a bit of time to accrue in order to prove the reliability and obtain the certification. ETOPS 120 requires 1 shut down in 20,000 hours. Somebody needed to accrue these hours in commercial ops for the A330 to gain certification, and EI did the lions share in exchange for favourable treatment from Airbus. Then the FAA granted ETOPS 180 to the 777 out of the box, which really pi$$ed a lot of other agencies off. The JAA restricted the 777 to ETOPS 120 until the 180 criteria was met in commercial ops.

The A350 can obtain ETOPS 370. I believe there's no reason to push ETOPS any further, as this covers every route pairing currently in existence, ie NZ/OZ to South America and South Africa. I’ll leave it to the pilots here to express how happy they’d be on one engine in a heavy twin over 6 hours from the nearest runway after a failure.

sherology · 11-12-2019 5:54pm

Tenger wrote: »

I must be quite old as I clearly remember when they only had 5 A333s.......I was onboard LAX when it was 3 weeks old!!!

I doubt it to be honest. The shift to using DUB as a hub for onward travel had happened before the IAG takeover. But pricing themselves under the other competitors (BA included) they are taking traffic from AA,UA,DL,VS,AC,AF,KL and BA.

Undercutting them, and providing better than equal service in my opinion. I can't fault EI across the pond (economy) in terms of seating, food, entertainment, aircraft, crew etc. Keep it up 'team'... You're an example of how to do things well 'and' profitably... From an opportinitic passenger of cheap saver seats. LPA again Saturday... Bike-time/Sun-time

Shamrockj · 12-12-2019 1:24pm

New route from Dublin to Rhodes to commence next may twice weekly

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/aer-lingus-adds-flight-to-greek-island-as-part-of-summer-schedule-970009.html

Locker10a · 16-12-2019 10:30pm

Sorry if this was discussed already, but I couldn’t see it on the booking engine yet, has the 321neolr been confirmed for any Euro routes other than LHR for next summer?

Jamie2k9 · 16-12-2019 11:01pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Sorry if this was discussed already, but I couldn’t see it on the booking engine yet, has the 321neolr been confirmed for any Euro routes other than LHR for next summer?

Nothing yet and with 2 assigned to LHR there probably won't be anymore operating in 2020 unless they get a fifth one.

Tenger · 17-12-2019 10:22am

I thought the remaking 5 would be delivered before the end of summer next year?

goingnowhere · 17-12-2019 11:12am

-LRD was unpainted and missing her engines in late Nov so is probably due February

No sign of E/F/G/H

sherology · 18-12-2019 8:39pm

Flightglobal seems to have gone to the dogs regarding accuracy/editing... https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/united-links-san-francisco-and-dublin-from-june-2020/135847.article

EI serve this route daily right?

L1011 · 18-12-2019 8:40pm

sherology wrote: »

Flightglobal seems to have gone to the dogs regarding accuracy/editing... https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/united-links-san-francisco-and-dublin-from-june-2020/135847.article

EI serve this route daily right?

Daily and potentially going to 10w at that.

WishUWereHere · 18-12-2019 9:04pm

There were direct flights last summer for about 3 months. Anyone any idea how successful the route was & will it be restarted next summer?

TIA

HTCOne · 18-12-2019 9:14pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

There were direct flights last summer for about 3 months. Anyone any idea how successful the route was & will it be restarted next summer?

TIA

I believe they’re adding an extra month this year.

18-12-2019 9:15pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

There were direct flights last summer for about 3 months. Anyone any idea how successful the route was & will it be restarted next summer?

TIA

Back and starting earlier I believe just like Calgary.

adam88 · 19-12-2019 8:26am

Hi guys. EI 108 cancelled. Anyone know why??? Is it a eu 261 case ???

Inquitus · 19-12-2019 11:06am

adam88 wrote: »

Hi guys. EI 108 cancelled. Anyone know why??? Is it a eu 261 case ???

Cancelled for Operational Reasons, that should mean you can claim.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-12-2019 1:00pm

sherology wrote: »

Flightglobal seems to have gone to the dogs regarding accuracy/editing... https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/united-links-san-francisco-and-dublin-from-june-2020/135847.article

Wow, that's embarrassing, the press release is hardly going to mention the competition on the route now is it

adam88 · 19-12-2019 3:07pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Cancelled for Operational Reasons, that should mean you can claim.

A1. Friends stranded over in NYC. Very little contact from Aer Lingus. Just goes to show always travel with a good credit card to pay for extra hotel and food

Gr123 · 29-12-2019 10:55pm

Has aer lingus changed some routes. My ei101 to ewr on 26th Jan 2020 is showing on the seat map as a a321neo now rather than a330 this is the same for the return. Any one else notice this?

Tenger · 29-12-2019 11:27pm

Gr123 wrote: »

Has aer lingus changed some routes. My ei101 to ewr on 26th Jan 2020 is showing on the seat map as a a321neo now rather than a330 this is the same for the return. Any one else notice this?

They started alternating the A330/A321 a few weeks ago I think. Was posted here that the original plan was to put the A321LR on the DC route but it was switched due to lack of range.
Would be interesting to hear the opinion on the experience.

Gr123 · 29-12-2019 11:50pm

I just contacted them to change seats as they never told me, we were in a, c seats and they copied them over like that as there was a middle free so no a, b

HTCOne · 30-12-2019 12:23am

Tenger wrote: »

They started alternating the A330/A321 a few weeks ago I think. Was posted here that the original plan was to put the A321LR on the DC route but it was switched due to lack of range.
Would be interesting to hear the opinion on the experience.

I seem to recall reading either on here or the blue website that the 3 LRs delivered so far only have 2 ACTs fitted, all subsequent deliveries from LRD onwards will have 3 fitted. I think MSP is the problem really as regards range for the LR, and EI will need to wait for the XLR before they can serve that with a narrowbody if the 330 isn't a success there. Seeing the success of SEA, who knows where the demand will go on that one.

I suppose the good thing about the LR is they can pull the ACTs out if they need to and use them purely intra Europe if they want and use the more efficiemt XLR on long haul, or retrofit the third ACT to EI-LRA/B/C if warranted too. IIRC the XLR delivers better range than the 3 ACT LR but with the weight and hold space penalties of 1 ACT, the range advantage coming from the weight saving

Stevek101 · 30-12-2019 1:24pm

Do we know when the A321ceos are due to go?

30-12-2019 5:12pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

Do we know when the A321ceos are due to go?

No mention of them leaving yet. I don’t recall what was in the call to investors presentation.

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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