Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

vectorvictor

Jack1985 wrote: »

Stobart's IOM operation for Flybe ends in late March 2019, releasing two ATR 72-500's for use. I would hope a potential ORK-DUB rotation may reappear, there is justifiable demand - A look at recent growth for Coach operators shows this with Aircoach running nearly two buses an hour now one for the airport and the other for the city. GoBe recently significantly grew services. This ''there is no need for air services'' is nonsense, there is demand.

There is plenty of demand on the route but the growth in bus operator services and high quality road network shows that this is being met. Add in time to travel to cork airport, checkin , flight and arrivals process and you have about a 1 hour saving over public transport and virtually no saving over driving.

It would be the worst possible deployment of capacity. Route planners aren't stupid and that is why this route doesn't exist.

From the papers at the time:
Stephen McNamara, spokesman for Ryanair, said: “Ryanair regrets having to close our Dublin– Cork and Dublin– Kerry routes. However, passengers have been voting with their feet and switching to the convenience of driving two and a half hours between Dublin and Cork.

Jack1985

vectorvictor wrote: »

There is plenty of demand on the route but the growth in bus operator services and high quality road network shows that this is being met. Add in time to travel to cork airport, checkin , flight and arrivals process and you have about a 1 hour saving over public transport and virtually no saving over driving.

It would be the worst possible deployment of capacity. Route planners aren't stupid and that is why this route doesn't exist.

From the papers at the time:
Stephen McNamara, spokesman for Ryanair, said: “Ryanair regrets having to close our Dublin– Cork and Dublin– Kerry routes. However, passengers have been voting with their feet and switching to the convenience of driving two and a half hours between Dublin and Cork.

Check-In ''time'' is a non-runner, we all carry iPhone's or visa-versa these days with the wallet app.

The route under EIR with connections through DUB to the US would do well. The route has never been tried under those circumstances, Ryanair's operation on the ORK-DUB route is controversial. They arrived to undercut RE, eventually booting them off it in 2011, the M8 was fully open nearly 2 years at that stage. FR had zero interest in the route once RE were off it, similarly done at Cork to operators including EZY and W6. At the time was also 2011, it's now 2018. The M8/M7 during rush hour is a headache for most due to continued urban sprawl in Dublin.

Coupling transfer demand to the US and local demand, the route would do well. A quick look at domestic routes in Ireland shows that even on PSO routes domestic demand is growing.

L1011

vectorvictor wrote: »

There is plenty of demand on the route but the growth in bus operator services and high quality road network shows that this is being met. Add in time to travel to cork airport, checkin , flight and arrivals process and you have about a 1 hour saving over public transport and virtually no saving over driving.

It would be the worst possible deployment of capacity. Route planners aren't stupid and that is why this route doesn't exist.

From the papers at the time:
Stephen McNamara, spokesman for Ryanair, said: “Ryanair regrets having to close our Dublin– Cork and Dublin– Kerry routes. However, passengers have been voting with their feet and switching to the convenience of driving two and a half hours between Dublin and Cork.

FR entered the route to bully RE off. They had no transfer capabilities; there was no transfer facility in DUB anyway.

EI-coded flights transferring via a transfer facility to longhaul and CX at the very least is a very, very different market to ORK-DUB alone.

Locker10a

L1011 wrote: »

vectorvictor wrote: »

There is plenty of demand on the route but the growth in bus operator services and high quality road network shows that this is being met. Add in time to travel to cork airport, checkin , flight and arrivals process and you have about a 1 hour saving over public transport and virtually no saving over driving.

It would be the worst possible deployment of capacity. Route planners aren't stupid and that is why this route doesn't exist.

From the papers at the time:
Stephen McNamara, spokesman for Ryanair, said: “Ryanair regrets having to close our Dublin– Cork and Dublin– Kerry routes. However, passengers have been voting with their feet and switching to the convenience of driving two and a half hours between Dublin and Cork.

FR entered the route to bully RE off. They had no transfer capabilities; there was no transfer facility in DUB anyway.

EI-coded flights transferring via a transfer facility to longhaul and CX at the very least is a very, very different market to ORK-DUB alone.

I agree I think on connections it would have a fair chance with an atr

Locker10a

L1011 wrote: »

Kcormahs wrote: »

I also considered that. I just wonder will EI be getting 4 next year or only one/two due to delays? And will we see the Business class product on those routes? Maybe on the 320s too?

They'll have biz seating and I can't see them selling it as seat only upgrade like on the 330 euro rotations currently. There will have to be some biz service improvements

If it's a big success they might offer biz service on 320s on the same routes but without the seats. Middle seat blocked only basically

If they wanted to offer full proper business class they’d probably need 5 crew in the cabin which I can’t see happening, a full proper business service would require the senior to be solely dedicated to that cabin and service, that leaves 3 crew to complete a buy on board which would be quite slow especially on busy flights or short sectors, at BA on euro sectors if Club Europe is booked above a certain number of pax an additional crew member is rostered onto the flight to complete the service to the expected standards, can we honestly see EI doing something like this!!!

Jack1985

Locker10a wrote: »

If they wanted to offer full proper business class they’d probably need 5 crew in the cabin which I can’t see happening, a full proper business service would require the senior to be solely dedicated to that cabin and service, that leaves 3 crew to complete a buy on board which would be quite slow especially on busy flights or short sectors, at BA on euro sectors if Club Europe is booked above a certain number of pax an additional crew member is rostered onto the flight to complete the service to the expected standards, can we honestly see EI doing something like this!!!

There's 4 crew on the 757 with 177, the SN looks after 12...

Locker10a

Jack1985 wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

If they wanted to offer full proper business class they’d probably need 5 crew in the cabin which I can’t see happening, a full proper business service would require the senior to be solely dedicated to that cabin and service, that leaves 3 crew to complete a buy on board which would be quite slow especially on busy flights or short sectors, at BA on euro sectors if Club Europe is booked above a certain number of pax an additional crew member is rostered onto the flight to complete the service to the expected standards, can we honestly see EI doing something like this!!!

There's 4 crew on the 757 with 177, the SN looks after 12...

I was more thinking of business class being run on busy Euro flights along with buy on board in full economy, or if they do introduce a curtain divide for premier Europe, I just can’t see them doing it properly, I think it will be a seat upgrade and maybe a free tea coffee or water

Jack1985

Locker10a wrote: »

I was more thinking of business class being run on busy Euro flights along with buy on board in full economy, or if they do introduce a curtain divide for premier Europe, I just can’t see them doing it properly, I think it will be a seat upgrade and maybe a free tea coffee or water

Absolutely you couldn't do shorter Euro routes with the current Business Class product with those crewing levels, but AerSpace isn't planned to be that level of service. It's doable with current crewing levels on Europe. A free service is quicker then the current BoB.

billy few mates

Jack1985 wrote: »

Absolutely you couldn't do shorter Euro routes with the current Business Class product with those crewing levels, but AerSpace isn't planned to be that level of service. It's doable with current crewing levels on Europe. A free service is quicker then the current BoB.

Yet many airlines currently flying to and from DUB somehow manage to do it..?
Lufthansa, Swiss, KLM, Turkish all provide a BC service and back in the day Aer Lingus used to provide it on flights to UK. I think there's a market for BC on all airlines (including Ryanair). It doesn't have to be a five course meal, BC passengers just want to be on and off the aircraft first, a bit more space around them, a bite to eat, a glass of wine and an additional baggage allowance. BC passengers aren't flying for fun so they don't mind paying a bit more to do it in comfort. People already pay a premium for priority boarding and to sit at the front, many of them would happily pay the extra to get the whole experience, airlines would be mad not to take that revenue.

marno21

Today's EI110 from Shannon to New York has been cancelled. EI-LBT has left Shannon for Dublin as EI990.

Has another aircraft gone tech ?

joeysoap

Jack1985 wrote: »

There's 4 crew on the 757 with 177, the SN looks after 12...

With a much longer time span to serve food and drinks. I think on the 330s there’s cabin manager (pointy end) and a senior in charge at the back? The 757 is different?

Locker10a

joeysoap wrote: »

Jack1985 wrote: »

There's 4 crew on the 757 with 177, the SN looks after 12...

With a much longer time span to serve food and drinks. I think on the 330s there’s cabin manager (pointy end) and a senior in charge at the back? The 757 is different?

Yeah transatlantic service is arguably easier as everything is quickly dished out for free, and there 6/7 hours to play with anyway. Buy on board always takes longer(obviously depending on demand) and there’s much less time in the air.

Locker10a

billy few mates wrote: »

Jack1985 wrote: »

Absolutely you couldn't do shorter Euro routes with the current Business Class product with those crewing levels, but AerSpace isn't planned to be that level of service. It's doable with current crewing levels on Europe. A free service is quicker then the current BoB.

Yet many airlines currently flying to and from DUB somehow manage to do it..?
Lufthansa, Swiss, KLM, Turkish all provide a BC service and back in the day Aer Lingus used to provide it on flights to UK. I think there's a market for BC on all airlines (including Ryanair). It doesn't have to be a five course meal, BC passengers just want to be on and off the aircraft first, a bit more space around them, a bite to eat, a glass of wine and an additional baggage allowance. BC passengers aren't flying for fun so they don't mind paying a bit more to do it in comfort. People already pay a premium for priority boarding and to sit at the front, many of them would happily pay the extra to get the whole experience, airlines would be mad not to take that revenue.

That’s great and all, but like I said earlier other airlines who do it properly will roster additional crew to work a flight with high business class bookings etc. Can we see EI doing that !!? I think not, so if there are 20 booked in premier Europe and 1 crew member to look after them on a 1 hour flight..... also who’s going to dress and hoover the cabin on turnaround? EI want no cleaning done on short haul turns to save time and money, it’s last off from the inbound and ready to board for the outbound. Which is great for OTP but is an undressed business class cabin acceptable?

Jack1985

ORK-FAO and ORK-AGP (partially) on-sale. No sign of the W routes returning, which would allow for two new routes to be added from Cork for S19, unless of course EI decide to base another unit in SNN or use the SNN based 320 to operate AGP/FAO and get a DUB aircraft to cover one of the LHR's.

kevinandrew

I think we're focusing too much on the importance of a business class cabin on short haul. 
The absolute most anyone should expect is 'Aer Space' which was an empty middle seat and a complimentary snack and that was it for an in the air product. All the other features were delivered at the time of booking or at the airport, seat selection, free bags, lounge access for example. 
The A321LR offering business class on European routes would be very, very select. It could be reserved for those who have booked a business class transatlantic seat via Dublin from Europe with the Aer Space features on top which allows Aer Lingus to keep the offering simple and low cost while providing a consistent hard product for those flying business onwards to North America. 
Don't expect to see a return of 'Premier Europe' as the demand just isn't there network wide and on most routes Aer Lingus would make more profit up-selling basic fares.

revelman

Jack1985 wrote: »

ORK-FAO and ORK-AGP (partially) on-sale. No sign of the W routes returning, which would allow for two new routes to be added from Cork for S19, unless of course EI decide to base another unit in SNN or use the SNN based 320 to operate AGP/FAO and get a DUB aircraft to cover one of the LHR's.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...on-869126.html

Aer Lingus Chief Executive states that they will be making announcements in the coming weeks on expansion from Cork airport, focusing mainly on European city destinations. .

Locker10a

revelman wrote: »

Jack1985 wrote: »

ORK-FAO and ORK-AGP (partially) on-sale. No sign of the W routes returning, which would allow for two new routes to be added from Cork for S19, unless of course EI decide to base another unit in SNN or use the SNN based 320 to operate AGP/FAO and get a DUB aircraft to cover one of the LHR's.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...on-869126.html

Aer Lingus Chief Executive states that they will be making announcements in the coming weeks on expansion from Cork airport, focusing mainly on European city destinations. .

“Mainly on European cities” so does that mean possibly a UK city, or something more exciting..

Mebuntu

marno21 wrote: »

Today's EI110 from Shannon to New York has been cancelled. EI-LBT has left Shannon for Dublin as EI990.

Has another aircraft gone tech ?

Yes, EI-LBR went tech after arriving in Philadelphia from DUB on Saturday. The return flight was cancelled. On Sunday it positioned to JFK to operate EI108 JFK-DUB. Sunday's DUB-JFK EI109 was cancelled as well.

EI-LBT positioned to DUB from SNN in order to operate the EI131 to Hartford (Note: SNN-JFK cancelled was EI111)

So, all-in-all, three T/A flights were cancelled.


Source: http://thelingussource.com/

duskyjoe

MIA DUB flight i see had a pit stop in YQX.

billy few mates

Locker10a wrote: »

That’s great and all, but like I said earlier other airlines who do it properly will roster additional crew to work a flight with high business class bookings etc. Can we see EI doing that !!? I think not, so if there are 20 booked in premier Europe and 1 crew member to look after them on a 1 hour flight..... also who’s going to dress and hoover the cabin on turnaround? EI want no cleaning done on short haul turns to save time and money, it’s last off from the inbound and ready to board for the outbound. Which is great for OTP but is an undressed business class cabin acceptable?

A lot of those flights I mentioned have as little as two or three rows of BC, that could easily be handled by the current crew numbers. Some of them don't seem to have additional or dedicated BC flight attendants, the F/A dishes out a welcome drink and snack before departure, then a small meal and a drink before popping back to serve in the main cabin but popping back in from time to time to see if they need anything else. As I suggested earlier BC passengers don't usually want to be pampered and entertained, they just want to be on and off first with a bit of extra space around them.

Nijmegen

European "domestic" business class is actually very easy to adapt to customer demand - move your curtain forward or backward based on bookings.

I would remark however that I wouldn't be very entertained if I couldn't get a drink refill when I want it if the purser is off serving the economy trolley for twenty minutes. One thing you do value in domestic business is just looking up, nodding (or hitting the call), and a beverage arriving. If I'm paying a 200% mark up on my seat (just quickly looking at Lufthansa morning flight Dublin-Frankfurt for example) yes I want to get on first, get the space, I want a dedicated power point, but I also definitely want and value someone serving me a beverage when and as frequently as I like.

Idbatterim

billy few mates wrote: »

A lot of those flights I mentioned have as little as two or three rows of BC, that could easily be handled by the current crew numbers. Some of them don't seem to have additional or dedicated BC flight attendants, the F/A dishes out a welcome drink and snack before departure, then a small meal and a drink before popping back to serve in the main cabin but popping back in from time to time to see if they need anything else. As I suggested earlier BC passengers don't usually want to be pampered and entertained, they just want to be on and off first with a bit of extra space around them.

off first I definitely get, on first? on those bloody cramped tin cans? I always make sure I am one of the last to board..

California Dreamer

Is today's 121 going? Couple of hours late so far. Is something tech?

alancostello

California Dreamer wrote: »

Is today's 121 going? Couple of hours late so far. Is something tech?

EI140 MIA-DUB diverted to YQX (Gander) last night, operated by EI-EWR. Departed for DUB seven hours later, diverted to SNN, and is now en route to DUB.

vectorvictor

alancostello wrote: »

EI140 MIA-DUB diverted to YQX (Gander) last night, operated by EI-EWR. Departed for DUB seven hours later, diverted to SNN, and is now en route to DUB.

Jayzus.

Multiple possible reasons for YQX but what would be the justification for a further detour to SNN ?

Your mention of Gander reminded me of this excellent documentary about Sep 11th (which also briefly features pax on a EI105). Highly recommend a watch for those who haven't seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbxoy4Mges

Lapmo_Dancer

Crew out of hours I’d imagine. EI operates to Florida with only 2 Flightdeck crew.

vectorvictor

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Crew out of hours I’d imagine. EI operates to Florida with only 2 Flightdeck crew.

We're talking what 10-15 minutes? Doubt they'd let them get themselves that close.

Also the use of EI990 flight number on SNN DUB suggests they dumped the pax in SNN. Anyone confirm ?

goingnowhere

EWR is not crew rest fitted, so anything more than 8 hours in the air and you are in trouble crew wise 
990 is a positioning number, no passengers

alancostello

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Crew out of hours I’d imagine. EI operates to Florida with only 2 Flightdeck crew.

Would there be A330 qualified crew sitting in Shannon for the positioning flight to DUB, or would they have just sent two pilots down to bring Ei-EWR back? I'd be curious to know what caused the diversion.

goingnowhere

Likely 2 sent down by bus/taxi from Dublin.
Doubtful anyone in SNN is still current on A330