Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

FenFlynn · 26-10-2020 4:59pm

Gus Ivey wrote: »

So in the AON practice assessment page, the videos for numerical and verbal show the Question remaining below, even when you click onto different tabs.

Is the actual test not like this?

No, the information tabs when you click on them they cover the questions, it's very disconcerting. One has to have a very good short term memory to not constantly going back and forth. In the end I just guessed them all and answered all questions in ample time, needless to say that was not a good idea. ðŸ˜ðŸ˜

floorpie · 27-10-2020 1:33pm

I don't like that we were forced to reply with business babble during charAssessment. "I will gather the data and revert to you asap" :rolleyes: Do new AOs get to touch base with relevant stakeholders on blue sky thinking vis-à-vis useful phrases? Or do we just take the ball and run with it...

I also found it difficult that tabs hid the question. Oddly I did the same tests last week for ICT EO and it did not do this.

BhoyRayzor · 27-10-2020 2:20pm

I would have done a few Sudoku beforehand if I'd known that that's what the deductive was going to be effectively

rostalof · 27-10-2020 2:30pm

floorpie wrote: »

I don't like that we were forced to reply with business babble during charAssessment. "I will gather the data and revert to you asap" :rolleyes: Do new AOs get to touch base with relevant stakeholders on blue sky thinking vis-à-vis useful phrases? Or do we just take the ball and run with it...

I also found it difficult that tabs hid the question. Oddly I did the same tests last week for ICT EO and it did not do this.

Unfortunately this type of guff is everywhere in both the private and public sectors. In my previous department I noticed that a lot of the people who moaned about being on numerous panels but were never placed in a position spoke about 'going forward', touching base' and 'reverting'. Maybe there's a reason they weren't progressing? When I hear this crap emanating from anybody's mouth, alarm bells ring and I immediately brand them in my own mind as a bull****ter. Going Forward, whatever happened to good old In Future? The same goes for Touching Base, what's wrong with Speak To? As for Revert it makes no sense at all. Revert does not mean reply so it's completely misused. Revert means to do an about turn or to return to a previous position or viewpoint.

Undoubtedly to my own detriment, if I'm at a meeting and somebody starts spouting this sh!te, I find it hard not to lose interest in what they're saying.

furrybones · 28-10-2020 10:08am

I was away with dodgy internet until yesterday. I tried to do the assessments around 10am yesterday morning but the whole thing went into perpetual loading.... loading .....loading...... I guess it wasn't meant to be. From the sounds of it, it was more stressful than anything.

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 10:26am

Don't worry- it'll come up again- and there will also be a series of specialised AO panels in the near future (same as last year) for those with specific HR, Finance, IT and Language skills.

Also keep in mind (for future competitions) that a set proportion of the posts will be ringfenced for those willing to conduct business through Irish (as happened in the recent EO).

The online tests were frustrating in the extreme- not least of all because of the technical issues that they seem to have been plagued with. I did the tests just to see what they were like- I had to do the various bits in 3 different browsers- and I eventually managed to get that blasted 'chat'/e-mail workskills part working on a laptop with an old version of Internet Explorer on it. Its supposed to be an online test- not an opportunity to have candidates trawl through their old equipment to try and find something that its compatible with.

I'm guessing I flunked (and badly too)- despite how I did in the previous panels.

belgowho · 28-10-2020 10:59am

Next stage is likely supervised tests?

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 11:01am

belgowho wrote: »

Next stage is likely supervised tests?

I'd suggest anyone who gets through the initial online exam- would have to fill out a detailed application- which would be used to further weed-out candidates, then supervised tests (however, how do you do supervised tests in a time of Covid?)...........

belgowho · 28-10-2020 11:10am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd suggest anyone who gets through the initial online exam- would have to fill out a detailed application- which would be used to further weed-out candidates, then supervised tests (however, how do you do supervised tests in a time of Covid?)...........

Ah yes, forgot we havent submitted for AO. Would be interested in how they do it for Third Sec since we already submitted a long form.

PhoenixParker · 28-10-2020 11:11am

floorpie wrote: »

I don't like that we were forced to reply with business babble during charAssessment. "I will gather the data and revert to you asap" :rolleyes: Do new AOs get to touch base with relevant stakeholders on blue sky thinking vis-à-vis useful phrases? Or do we just take the ball and run with it...

I also found it difficult that tabs hid the question. Oddly I did the same tests last week for ICT EO and it did not do this.

The business jargon annoys me more in the verbal and the numeric. I don't have a business degree, I'm not applying for a job in a business yet both of those are filled with business jargon about FY this and Executive board that.

There's no need to build in that bias to the tests.

tricky@ · 28-10-2020 11:19am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd suggest anyone who gets through the initial online exam- would have to fill out a detailed application- which would be used to further weed-out candidates, then supervised tests (however, how do you do supervised tests in a time of Covid?)...........

Just on this point; I was interviewed in the last batch of interviews for the AO 2019 competition in September and can confirm there was no supervised tests. Had to complete the detailed application form (which was just education and work history), then had the interview late September before doing the presentation exercise last week.

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 11:21am

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The business jargon annoys me more in the verbal and the numeric. I don't have a business degree, I'm not applying for a job in a business yet both of those are filled with business jargon about FY this and Executive board that.

There's no need to build in that bias to the tests.

In all fairness its far from unusual to encounter language like this on a daily basis as an AO or an EO regardless of what your qualifications are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have significant parcels of work that are totally unrelated to whatever your background is in.

On the brightside this is recognised, and there is good training offered (both through the IPA and external service providers) up to and including post grad qualifications.

At AO or EO there is an expectation that you are capable of soaking up knowledge and equipping yourself to deal with the job you find yourself in, the job is not tailored towards you, you have to tailor yourself to fit the situations you find yourself in.

PhoenixParker · 28-10-2020 11:35am

The_Conductor wrote: »

In all fairness its far from unusual to encounter language like this on a daily basis as an AO or an EO regardless of what your qualifications are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have significant parcels of work that are totally unrelated to whatever your background is in.

On the brightside this is recognised, and there is good training offered (both through the IPA and external service providers) up to and including post grad qualifications.

At AO or EO there is an expectation that you are capable of soaking up knowledge and equipping yourself to deal with the job you find yourself in, the job is not tailored towards you, you have to tailor yourself to fit the situations you find yourself in.

It might not be unusual to encounter it as an EO or an AO, but you can learn and familiarize yourself on the job. You're not soaking up and learning knowledge during the tests.

These are tests where if you can read and comprehend quickly you'll do better. People with experience in business will read and comprehend faster, not by much, but there's 49 questions in 12 minutes, so seconds can make the difference between getting to question 30 and question 40.

The older style of verbal had a variety of short passages, you might get one or two where the jargon fit your experience but everyone had good passages and bad passages for that.

With one set of passages, solely focused on business, they're giving a leg up to business candidates. Maybe that's what they want to do, but I feel like they just bought tests tailored for Fortune 500 graduate recruitment campaigns and they should be aiming for a bit more diversity.

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 11:53am

PhoenixParker wrote: »

With one set of passages, solely focused on business, they're giving a leg up to business candidates. Maybe that's what they want to do, but I feel like they just bought tests tailored for Fortune 500 graduate recruitment campaigns and they should be aiming for a bit more diversity.

My background is in science and applied statistics- I didn't have any particular issue with them (though there was some guesswork involved in trying to figure which tab was applicable- but I'm guessing most people would be in that boat).

I speed read the tabs before I started on the questions- and only had to refer back to the tabs for around half the questions (and even then, I'd end up guessing many of the answers if I thought it was taking me too long to figure which was which).

Its a frame of mind more so than an attempt to tailor it towards those with finance/business qualifications. Its a speed test..........

belgowho · 28-10-2020 4:24pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

My background is in science and applied statistics- I didn't have any particular issue with them (though there was some guesswork involved in trying to figure which tab was applicable- but I'm guessing most people would be in that boat).

I speed read the tabs before I started on the questions- and only had to refer back to the tabs for around half the questions (and even then, I'd end up guessing many of the answers if I thought it was taking me too long to figure which was which).

Its a frame of mind more so than an attempt to tailor it towards those with finance/business qualifications. Its a speed test..........

How many verbal questions could you get through if you dont mind me asking? I think I got close to 35 and answered accurately enough

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 4:28pm

belgowho wrote: »

How many verbal questions could you get through if you dont mind me asking? I think I got close to 35 and answered accurately enough

I got all of them- however, it timed out just as I picked the very last one (so I think it saved it, though I'm not sure).

head_theball · 28-10-2020 4:30pm

Does anyone know the approx time frame for getting the results back from the assessments? Judging by the website, they are holding stage 2 (interviews) in mid nov, so hoping it'll be soon enough?

belgowho · 28-10-2020 4:31pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I got all of them- however, it timed out just as I picked the very last one (so I think it saved it, though I'm not sure).

Nice. Hoping my low answer count wont be my downfall.

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 4:34pm

belgowho wrote: »

Nice. Hoping my low answer count wont be my downfall.

You were probably a lot more accurate than I was- so its a case of swings and roundabouts- we're probably both in a similar position.

doc22 · 28-10-2020 4:49pm

Funny Evergreen never gets old

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 4:49pm

doc22 wrote: »

Funny Evergreen never gets old

They have been using that company for a long time.........

exitstageleft · 28-10-2020 5:58pm

Fair play. I think I only got around 26 and I'm sure some of those were wrong. I was trying not to guess though since I thought there was negative marking. In retrospect, I would've probably been better to go with the speed-read and answer from memory / educated guess strategy.

Ernesto Guevara · 28-10-2020 6:12pm

head_theball wrote: »

Does anyone know the approx time frame for getting the results back from the assessments? Judging by the website, they are holding stage 2 (interviews) in mid nov, so hoping it'll be soon enough?

FWIW last year's test ended on the 14/10 and results were out 25/10.

Thrillhouse11 · 28-10-2020 8:02pm

belgowho wrote: »

Nice. Hoping my low answer count wont be my downfall.

If you answered close to 35 I'd say you're well above the average anyway! I definitely focused more on accuracy than speed, which was probably a bad idea.

The_Conductor · 28-10-2020 8:27pm

Thrillhouse11 wrote: »

If you answered close to 35 I'd say you're well above the average anyway! I definitely focused more on accuracy than speed, which was probably a bad idea.

We don't know whether there is negative marking involved- so you could potentially be in a far better position than those of us who raced through the questions to get it done........ Time will tell. Either way- neither approach is ideal, nor a reflection of what would happen in the real world, so it is questionable what the whole point of the exercise actually is.

rostalof · 28-10-2020 9:09pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't worry- it'll come up again- and there will also be a series of specialised AO panels in the near future (same as last year) for those with specific HR, Finance, IT and Language skills.

Also keep in mind (for future competitions) that a set proportion of the posts will be ringfenced for those willing to conduct business through Irish (as happened in the recent EO).

The online tests were frustrating in the extreme- not least of all because of the technical issues that they seem to have been plagued with. I did the tests just to see what they were like- I had to do the various bits in 3 different browsers- and I eventually managed to get that blasted 'chat'/e-mail workskills part working on a laptop with an old version of Internet Explorer on it. Its supposed to be an online test- not an opportunity to have candidates trawl through their old equipment to try and find something that its compatible with.

I'm guessing I flunked (and badly too)- despite how I did in the previous panels.

Do you reckon there'll be an AO ICT competition this year? I haven't seen one in a while. I thought there were finance and HR streams when this competition was advertised. Maybe I'm mixing it up with last year, it all becomes a blur after a while!

The_Conductor · 29-10-2020 9:03am

rostalof wrote: »

Do you reckon there'll be an AO ICT competition this year? I haven't seen one in a while. I thought there were finance and HR streams when this competition was advertised. Maybe I'm mixing it up with last year, it all becomes a blur after a while!

There are a large no. of vacancies across the wide IT spectrum for EOs/AOs - they're never able to fill them. They are more interested in people with experience than greenhorns- but don't want to pay for the experience- so they're not competing with the opportunities in the private sector. A few Departments have run IT panels under license from PAS- to try and address this shortfall- with mixed results. Whatever about the other disciplines, it beggars belief that they won't run an EO ICT/JSA and an AO ICT panel in the near future.

rostalof · 29-10-2020 9:39am

The_Conductor wrote: »

There are a large no. of vacancies across the wide IT spectrum for EOs/AOs - they're never able to fill them. They are more interested in people with experience than greenhorns- but don't want to pay for the experience- so they're not competing with the opportunities in the private sector. A few Departments have run IT panels under license from PAS- to try and address this shortfall- with mixed results. Whatever about the other disciplines, it beggars belief that they won't run an EO ICT/JSA and an AO ICT panel in the near future.

You're right about the vacancies and the inability to fill them. There's also an issue with retaining newly hired AO/HEO and indeed EO ICT staff. There were EO & HEO ICT competitions run by DAFM at the end of 2017 on behalf of themselves, DEASP and Revenue. Those successful were placed in the second half of 2018. Last year PAS ran both EO & HEO ICT competitions, that's how I returned to ICT. PAS are currently running both competitions again this year, applications closed on the 24th of September.

MaryRyan48 · 29-10-2020 4:37pm

Anyone any idea when/if there might be another open revenue AO comp? I think the current audit and compliance results are just out so does that mean there won't be another for the revenue until that panel expires?

exitstageleft · 03-11-2020 2:37pm

Will someone tell PAS that I'm ready for the results now. I can take it.

The_Conductor · 03-11-2020 2:52pm

exitstageleft wrote: »

Will someone tell PAS that I'm ready for the results now. I can take it.

Haha.
They'll turn up- probably on a Friday evening at around 4.45pm........

MaryRyan48 · 05-11-2020 10:42am

I feel like today could be the day......!!!

head_theball · 05-11-2020 12:28pm

MaryRyan48 wrote: »

I feel like today could be the day......!!!

I hope so! I need to know if I should start interview prepping - I assume that's what the next stage is?

Galantis · 05-11-2020 3:18pm

head_theball wrote: »

I hope so! I need to know if I should start interview prepping - I assume that's what the next stage is?

You must be joking. We are along way off the interview stage yet. Sure we havent even submitted forms yet

Yer_Wan_1202 · 05-11-2020 3:34pm

Galantis wrote: »

You must be joking. We are along way off the interview stage yet. Sure we havent even submitted forms yet

We're not that far off the interview stage... The information booklet says interviews will be mid Nov, here are the key dates from page 2:
Stage 1 - Online tests Late October
Stage 2 - Online Video Interviews Mid November
Stage 3 - Assessment Centre Early December

That doesn't really give much time to submit our forms though. This is the only info I found in the booklet on the forms, from page 5:
Candidates that reach the qualifying standard at online testing and come under consideration for subsequent stages of the selection process will be required to submit an application form outlining their educational and work history.

MaryRyan48 · 05-11-2020 3:45pm

Yer_Wan_1202 wrote: »

We're not that far off the interview stage... The information booklet says interviews will be mid Nov, here are the key dates from page 2:
Stage 1 - Online tests Late October
Stage 2 - Online Video Interviews Mid November
Stage 3 - Assessment Centre Early December

That doesn't really give much time to submit our forms though. This is the only info I found in the booklet on the forms, from page 5:
Candidates that reach the qualifying standard at online testing and come under consideration for subsequent stages of the selection process will be required to submit an application form outlining their educational and work history.

And from reading last year's posts it is literally just that, education and work experience. There are no competencies given and you have to give your examples....like the regular application forms. They seem to just assess the competencies at interview

FenFlynn · 05-11-2020 7:46pm

Result out for Third secretary, I passed, what a relief

Aleece2020 · 05-11-2020 8:00pm

I assume we'll be getting results for this soon as TS/DSO came out. Interesting to see my OOM for general entry AO vs. the TS/DSO.

FenFlynn · 05-11-2020 8:11pm

Hopefully, but I'd imagine more applied as AO than TS. It would take longer to sort out the OOM. I'd say tomorrow or next week.

The_Conductor · 05-11-2020 8:21pm

FenFlynn wrote: »

Hopefully, but I'd imagine more applied as AO than TS. It would take longer to sort out the OOM. I'd say tomorrow or next week.

OOM is actually quite easy- dump the whole lot into Excel, do a data sort, decide how many are being brought through- and split the lists into separate exam streams- and then do a series of 'Count-Ifs' True/False statements. Couple of hours work for someone- its not rocket science.

mulligja · 05-11-2020 8:22pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

OOM is actually quite easy- dump the whole lot into Excel, do a data sort, decide how many are being brought through- and split the lists into separate exam streams- and then do a series of 'Count-Ifs' True/False statements. Couple of hours work for someone- its not rocket science.

Here's hoping you get offered a role in the PAS.

FenFlynn · 06-11-2020 11:32am

MaryRyan48 wrote: »

I feel like today could be the day......!!!

I think you need to say it again today!

:pac:

MaryRyan48 · 06-11-2020 11:36am

FenFlynn wrote: »

I think you need to say it again today! :pac:

My luck isn't it....maybe one of you guys give it a shot, lol!!

The_Conductor · 06-11-2020 11:44am

MaryRyan48 wrote: »

My luck isn't it....maybe one of you guys give it a shot, lol!!

Sometime a little after 4PM on a Friday- is the norm- so today looks good to me.
No idea why PAS seem to love issuing results on Fridays.

tgdaly · 06-11-2020 12:34pm

Just got my results, missed qualifying score by 2 points on deductive - logical. Passed everything else fairly easily. Oh well, you win some you lose some. I knew that was one I struggled with so can't complain too much. Good luck to everyone going forward

FenFlynn · 06-11-2020 12:39pm

Sorry to hear that!
The deductive was a killer! I haven't received any email yet!

JackieOnassis · 06-11-2020 12:56pm

Just got stage 1 results. Below is from the email received:

Candidates for the above stream up until and including order of merit 253 will be required to submit a detailed application form outlining educational and career experience. Candidates will receive further information on this in due course to their message board.

The_Conductor · 06-11-2020 12:57pm

Passed, but not high enough on order of merit to get through to next round.
Oh well.

I'm not sure why they only use the scores in two of the 4 tests to determine orders of merit- it would be fairer to look at all 4.

Good luck to everyone.

Nekro Man · 06-11-2020 12:57pm

Check your messages manually if you didn't get an email, it could be there anyway.

I wish we knew how many people passed, all well and good knowing your OoM but If you're 3000 of 3000 it's a bit moot

newbie18892 · 06-11-2020 12:59pm

Just got my results. Honestly surprised I passed so that's something positive to take away from it although I doubt my OOM is high enough to progress. I noted they have invited all up to OOM 253 to send in a detailed application. I got approx. OOM 1100.

Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

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