Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

Quitelife · 01-05-2023 1:05pm

Any word on Sean Finns injury ?

letsseehere14 · 01-05-2023 4:58pm

I think we have looked tired these last two games and the 3 week rest could not have come at a better time. We have actually looked like how Waterford did last year. Scraped past our first round then fell flat in the second. Is the league now a verified hindrance in the current structure?

Its a long road, I can still see us ending up on 6 points. Tipp are coming at us a little too soon for their own good and Cork when the chips are down struggle under real pressure. I can see another Limerick Clare Munster final. Wouldn't it be great. But we need to get our energy levels back. I think Clare are the only top team that have at best broke even with us over the Kiely era. You have to give them credit for that.

I was worried about depth at the start of the year. The league was promising but I was a little annoyed to see Mulcahy and Reidy being the ones called upon. No trust in the newer cohort yet. I can understand the Hegarty and Casey subs.

So, 12 of the team that started the first RR game in 2018 started against Waterford, 11 against Clare. Including subs 13 of the starters in round 1 2018 played some part on Saturday. It is asking an awful lot of players to keep that same level up over such a long period. Even the Kilkenny game in 2017, 10 of the starters that day 6 years ago played a part last Saturday. Its a special group I know, but new blood has to be given a change to mould into the starting team and add new energy or else we are condemning this them to more days like the last two weekends when their life span could be much longer. They have 3 weeks to get the concentration and energy levels back up.

Cian Lynch needs a new fitness coach too. Its as if he has gone hard into getting that bulky strong body but it really has been to the detriment of his athleticism and quickness of movement. He has not looked to be moving in any way freely this year. Too much bulk can put unseen pressure on the body that you would not expect especially in a game like hurling. Instead of wanting to look like a Finn or Hegarty he needs to revert back to his best body type, slim, quick and athletic. As it stands regardless of injury, he could be dropped, he is not adding anything at the moment.

Quaid, Casey, Morrissey, Nash, Byrnes, Hannon, Coughlin, O'Donovan, O'Donoghue, Morrissey, Hayes, O'Neill, Gillane, Flanagan, O'Dalaigh

With Hegarty, Lynch there to come in off the bench. I suspect it will be a few days before we know about Finn. Sounds drastic dropping both Hegarty and Lynch but in all honesty can anyone say they have played well enough in the last two games?

PeggyShippen · 01-05-2023 5:09pm

Good Post. I dunno about the extra muscle affecting Lynchs mobility. It shouldn't and doesn't for rugby players. You can retain your quickness and flexibility with muscle. But he's not in form or moving well at all . Its a genuine concern. I reckon this hamstring is serious enough. Finn is a huge worry. The fear is an acl of course. Fingers crossed he hasn't succumed

High bike · 01-05-2023 8:07pm

Don't know what all the doom and gloom is about tbh.People forget that Clare and Limerick drew 3 tmes last year so it was always going to be a tight match on Sat.Right we lost by point after shooting horrendous wides so could easily have drawn or got a narrow win.We beat Waterford having played half the match a man down and people still weren't happy.

We've now lost 3 championship matches in 5 yrs,don't think JK will be panicking just yet.Id be fairly confident Limerick will be one of the 3 teams to come out of Munster which at this stage is all that matters .

breezy1985 · 01-05-2023 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543903#Comment_120543903

Its been a slow slide since the start of last year. I know it's man because we were unbeaten but it was only a matter of time. I still think Galway bottled the semi and the 20/21 Limerick team would have taken Kilkenny apart after the start we got. It would be nice to see our form on an upward curve again.

Rosita · 01-05-2023 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543903#Comment_120543903

The loss itself is an irrelevance I think. The chances of getting through so many matches without being caught somewhere were always slim and good that it happened in a non knockout game. Like you said top 3 is the thing. Injuries are clouding the situation though.

Iecrawfc · 02-05-2023 2:40am

I think it's not so much the defeat but the amount of mainstays that are struggling for form in the first 2 games would concern you. Who knows, maybe they were planning on coasting the first 2 games then target the break and start to ramp up after that maybe. However I would like to see some new energy in there such as Couglan, A English, Murphy, it's funny a month ago the panel depth seemed great now it seems a little threadbare with 'old stagers' Mulcahy, Reid, Boylan etc. being brought on to make an impact.

PeggyShippen · 02-05-2023 8:55am

Murphy needs to come in . If not now then when? He showed some great form and work rate in the league and has way more mobility than O Donovan who is an unrivalled passer and does a good job but legs are his issue. Limerick are still in a fine position, nothing too concerning really but abit more pressure on.

Coughlan is good enough to start against Tipp. Leave Lynch off and play Hayes up there and apologise to him for messing him around by switching him so often. Hegarty to start and Tom Morrissey on the frees from the start. Gillanes misses were awful. His wide from play off his right in the 2nd half was shocking as was Tom's in fairness..

breezy1985 · 02-05-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544930#Comment_120544930

Pundits who spent the whole league laughing at it also ended up telling everyone how brilliant Limerick were and pointing to the league when talking about strength in depth.

The young lads done great in the league but it was just the league. They wouldn't be starting based off league form alone.

breezy1985 · 02-05-2023 9:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545172#Comment_120545172

Hayes cleared out some amount of ball last weekend. You would want to be nuts to take him out of there unless it forced. Especially if Finn is gone.

C4000 · 02-05-2023 10:20am

Between last year's and this year's championship, we are seeing a trend where teams are consistently producing their best performances of the season in matches against Limerick. They haven't always been able to back these performances up subsequently. I don't think Limerick have dropped off massively - the form of our two matches this year is very similar to the equivalent games from last years championship, but we do see to have lost a certain amount of form.

Some of our best players are slightly below par, still playing well to an extent, but not producing the extraordinary performances that they have routinely managed in the last number of years......Lynch, Hegarty, Hayes etc. Hayes battled very well on Saturday but was under Savage pressure every time he got the ball. There was an element of tactical fouling to curb his influence also.

We're not managing to score freely from play. Our half back line and midfield have only contributed 1 point in total in the two games. Morrissey is showing serious leadership qualities in the half forward line, and Flanagan and Gillane still look dangerous up front, though Gillanes radar was off on Saturday.

You could see that Clare were 100 per cent committed to being first to every contested ball, showing great aggression ....in contrast, there were a few occasions where Limerick players were caught on the back foot. In a tight game these margins can be crucial.

I wouldn't be in favour of making too many changes for the Tipp match. According to TJ Ryan, the word in Bruff is that Finns injury is not serious.....whether he'll be back in three weeks is still a doubt.

I'd rebalance the scoring threat by bringing Hegarty back in. You have to back him to find form and deliver a performance when most needed. I think he's a massive confidence player. If Lynch is fit, he could drop out to midfield which would allow Cathal O'Neill to retain his place and give us an extra attacking threat.

One strange decision was bringing Mulcahy on in the closing stages. He's a legendary player who has been a great asset to Limerick, but he hasn't been a scoring threat at intercounty level in the last couple of years. O'Dalaigh had shown enough in the league to be given 10 minutes. At some point you do have to back the younger option.

Pogue eile · 02-05-2023 3:14pm

Is Kiely getting a bit of a free pass here? Obviously he has huge credit in the bank and will go down as one of the greatest ever but I cannot for the life of me understand what he was doing going all out for the league, it was and is bizzare. And at the end of the day the few new players he got from it he doesn't seem to trust enough to start.

People will say oh but shur Kilkenny used to take the league seriously and still won the AI every year, they did but that was and is the huge luxury of competing in the Leinster Championship as opposed to the Munster Championship. The new calendar makes it even a bigger challenge.

Vinnie222 · 02-05-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546808#Comment_120546808

How did Limerick go all out to win the league. They rarely had close to their strongest team out

breezy1985 · 02-05-2023 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546808#Comment_120546808

We didn't go all out for the league we played pretty much the same mix of A and B players as last year it's just our form was better and others worse.

Cian Lynch didn't look like a man who went all out when he lifted the trophy.

Pogue eile · 02-05-2023 3:53pm

Fair enough we will agree to disagree, looked like a team hell bent on winning a league and putting down a marker in both the semi and the final to me.

The team that was named for the league final, before the late deflections was as follows; Nickie Quaid; Sean Finn, Dan Morrissey, Barry Nash; Diarmaid Byrnes, Declan Hannon, Kyle Hayes; Darragh O’Donovan, Barry Murphy; Gearóid Hegarty, Cian Lynch, Cathal O’Neill; Aaron Gillane, Séamus Flanagan, Peter Casey

That is not a mix and match its a team with 13 All stars and is a team that is going all out to win the league.

breezy1985 · 02-05-2023 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546942#Comment_120546942

We played a strong team once we got that far but the teams we played up to that were the same as last year when we were crap. The difference I think was last year a few teams were hell bent on beating us. Cork, Galway and Clare were looking for blood last year. Galway and Clare practically rolled over this year.

Pogue eile · 02-05-2023 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546969#Comment_120546969

That's kind of my point though, Galway and Clare were obviously holding back because of the proximity of the championship, really think Kiely should have done the same, the mileage on this team is huge and it will take its toll, one could argue the injury list and the last two performances suggest it is already taking its toll.

breezy1985 · 02-05-2023 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546993#Comment_120546993

Or championship so far has only been 1 Clare point different to last year despite not playing well in the league last year.We got 3 extra points in the league to last year using a similar team and played the final in neutral never mind 1st gear.

This loss to Clare has been on the cards for a while now. We rarely looked our best last year but got over the line but we were gonna get caught some day.

It's always the fekin same with the league. Loads of hindsight thrown into league form when in fact it probably matters very little either way.

breezy1985 · 02-05-2023 5:44pm

Tailteann Cup draw was earlier today

Group 3: Limerick, Wicklow, Longford, Carlow.

Fixtures are preordained so it's Longford at home, Carlow away and Wicklow neutral in that order.

billyhead · 02-05-2023 6:35pm

The gap is closing. It was only a matter of time before Limerick were beaten. No team could sustain there level of victories. I would still think we will be there or thereabouts at the business end of the championship.

High bike · 02-05-2023 7:55pm

100% correct it has nothing to do with the league,they might be slightly off and it's only slightly and other teams are giving a little extra when they face Limerick.Last year was no different against Clare 3 draws which could have been 3 narrow defeats or victories.Lets wait and see how it plays out before we start writing them off

lim4ev · 02-05-2023 11:17pm

Lads where's Aidan o Connor from ballybrown? Surely an option off the bench

Iecrawfc · 03-05-2023 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548710#Comment_120548710

Yes he was very good for the 21s last year, he was on the frees too but I thought he was as impressive as English and O'Brien, has been on the panel throughout the league so maybe Kiely doesn't think he's ready yet?

Minors well beaten tonight by Clare in Munster, looking at their players in schools, u20s, colleges and ours are we gone behind them in player development? Alot of smoke gets blown up the academy by pundits etc. but we're no longer ahead of Tipp, Cork or Clare in Munster now, W'ford have their own challenges. A dose of reality for all concerned the last few years.

03-05-2023 7:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548850#Comment_120548850

Don't really agree on the player development front. Plenty good hurlers on last year's 14s, 15s and 16s panels

breezy1985 · 03-05-2023 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548850#Comment_120548850

We are not gonna get another team like this one but if the academy can do enough that we are not waiting 45 years for another All Ireland it is doing its job.

Also a great minor/20 team usually is only half the battle as you also have to factor in how good the seniors they will blend into are.

PeggyShippen · 03-05-2023 9:14am

The Academy needs change. Cork are well out in front on player development for underage and will remain there. Too many players and a good system now. The Limerick academy system needs a reboot..it locks kids outside it abit..doesn't factor in late development at all and it's just grown stale. It needs a few tweets.

The bigger issue is schools and specifically Harty hurling. 1 school isn't good enough especially when half the squad is from Clare. Cork and Tipp have 4 Harty Schools. Limerick should have 3. Doon, Castletroy and Ard Scoil and the conveyor belt needs to be kept going

slegs · 03-05-2023 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546808#Comment_120546808

We won the league playing in 2nd gear which hardly qualifies as going all out for it. Its almost a competition in itself now to see who can be most rubbish in the league to "go under the radar" or some other cliche that gets trotted out when we discover they are are flying it in May (training blocks, peaking etc etc etc). Think we just won the "least rubbish in the league" competition this year. It doesn't mean anything in the same was as not winning it doesn't mean anything

billyhead · 03-05-2023 3:47pm

No word yet on Finn's injury?

Pogue eile · 03-05-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549978#Comment_120549978

It's funny how perception can change after the event.

Now obviously it is not an insight into John Kiely's mind but have a look back at the pages here before the semi and the final, multiple posts from the same posters here now decreeing that Limerick were only going through the motions stating that among others 'it will be full blooded' 'we will go all out to win it' 'Kiley doesn't do holding back' 'why would we hold back' ............its a pity they got rid of the multi quote function but you get the picture!

It anyone thinks that the second half of the league semi or the first three quarters of the final was 'playing in 2nd gear' you obviously have a very inflated opinion of the team or you are deluding yourself. Either that or the car only has three gears!

High bike · 03-05-2023 5:45pm

Obviously it goes without saying when it came to the semi final and final Limerick went out to win it who wouldn't.The point being made was that the team was heavily rotated throughout the league up to that .Would have thought that was plain for anyone to see but maybe not to everyone.

breezy1985 · 03-05-2023 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551264#Comment_120551264

And was clear that if we didn't make the knockouts no one would have been too worried.

Quitelife · 04-05-2023 3:13pm

Who will win between Cork & Tipperary this weekend?

They are the two opponents Limerick have left, i would think Tipp going to Ennis and beating Clare was a better result than Cork beating a Waterford team who got tactics all wrong or else arent up to much. Cant get the flat performance that Cork put up against Kilkenny in league semi final out of my head so i'll go with Tipp on Saturday night.

C4000 · 04-05-2023 3:16pm

Random stat which I thought was interesting: championship scorers from play during John Kiely's reign:

Gillane: 9-69

T. Morrissey 1-83

Hegarty: 6-67

Flanagan: 5-50

Hayes: 7-36

Casey: 2-47

Mulcahy: 4-38

Lynch: 1-39

Byrnes: 1-27

O'Donovan: 1-19

Dowling: 2-10

Hannon: 0-15

Reidy 0-14

Nash 0-12

O'Neill: 0-12

Ryan: 1-8

O'Donoghue: 0-8

Dempsey: 1-3

Boylan 1-2

D. Morrissey 0-4

Murphy: 1-0

O'Loughlin: 0-2

Breen: 0-2

Browne: 0-1

O'Reilly: 0-1

callaway92 · 04-05-2023 3:18pm

Do you have minutes played to go alongside that?

C4000 · 04-05-2023 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554723#Comment_120554723

No, just total overall scores, regardless of appearances made

High bike · 04-05-2023 6:21pm

Surprised to see Tom Morrissey in 2nd place considering he spends half his time winning ball in his own half,fair play.

evolvingtipperary101 · 04-05-2023 7:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554715#Comment_120554715

I know he had a spell up front but unreal going from Hayes.

billyhead · 04-05-2023 7:34pm

Finn did his ACL. Big blow. Casey will replace him.

04-05-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555694#Comment_120555694

Ya awful shame.

Probably stops the idea of moving Barry Nash up the field. Would have liked to have seen him put midfield

moby2101 · 04-05-2023 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555694#Comment_120555694

Christ

Tough blow for Finn and the team. One of the best cornerbacks of the last 10 years.

High bike · 04-05-2023 8:27pm

Very unlucky some player,hopefully he comes back as good as ever.Suppose it's lucky it's one place we have good cover

skaface · 04-05-2023 8:34pm

Wishing him a speedy recovery.. Great player for ye over the last few years

slegs · 05-05-2023 8:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550958#Comment_120550958

Point is it bears no relevance at all. It would bear no relavence if we hammered Waterford and Clare. It bears no relevance to the fact we lost to Clare. The league is just something people like to talk about like it has an impact on championship when it doesnt. The reasons Limerick might be a little off or that others are closing the gap will be to do with other factors. "Going for the league" especially when you rotated the whole way through it isnt a factor.

realdanbreen · 05-05-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554704#Comment_120554704

I agree the semi final performance of Cork against Kilkenny looked very flat but I remember thinking at the time that this Cork team didn't look like they were desperately trying to win, going for points from impossible angles etc. Tipp otoh were gifted the first 3 goals by clare. Obviously I'm hoping for a Tipp win as it would probably see them through with two home games remaining. Hopefully both Sean Finn and Tadhg de burca have speedy recoveries.

lim4ev · 06-05-2023 9:45am

Tipp v cork is too close to call, as far as we're concerned anything but a draw

C4000 · 06-05-2023 8:49pm

If Clare beat waterford and then lose to Cork, we'd be out if Tipp beat us.

Vinnie222 · 06-05-2023 8:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563792#Comment_120563792

We just have to win our last 2 games 😊Cork will find it tough with 2 away games left

lim4ev · 07-05-2023 1:14pm

Safest best is just win our remaining games. i must admit if I thought 4 goals were to be scored that it would have been tipp that scored them they're giving up goal chances and theres also goals in that cork fb line.

Of course I could be wrong but hope I'm not.

I think clare will beat cork that would be huge for us

Quitelife · 07-05-2023 1:32pm

I would struggle to see waterford winning any of their matchs left & Think clare will beat Cork in Ennis.

That would all mean if Tipp were to beat Limerick in Thurles it would all come down to last match between Limerick v Cork in gaelic grounds for third & Final spot!

breezy1985 · 08-05-2023 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565389#Comment_120565389

If I had to call it I think everyone is going to win their remaining home games except Waterford. It's gonna be a nerve wracking few weeks.

Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

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