new ICBF Proofs

Sugarbowl · 27-04-2019 6:05pm

Anyone know when the next run of proofs are being issued?

patsy_mccabe · 27-04-2019 6:41pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Anyone know when the next run of proofs are being issued?

Tuesday, 21 May 2019.
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?page_id=11285

patsy_mccabe · 21-05-2019 4:08pm

patsy_mccabe · 21-05-2019 10:14pm

Genetic Evaluations Help Documnet.
Crazy stuff but worth a read. Top link on the following;

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?page_id=200

Lady Haywire · 21-05-2019 10:29pm

I don't actually fcuking believe it. The bull that won reserve for me was 4 stars all his life, dropped to 3 stars in the March evaluation, back up to 4 again.
Shower of cnuts. May they catch incurable hemorrhoids!
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

How much did that affect his bloody price. I could actually thump someone right now.

patsy_mccabe · 22-07-2019 6:29pm

tanko · 22-07-2019 7:25pm

Got a letter today from ICBF asking me to participate in GREENBREED “which is a five year collaborative research project involving ICBF, Teagaac and UCD, WIT and CIT.
It aims to develop, validate and deploy the necessary tools and strategies to achieve greater genetic gain in environmental and economic efficiency.
It will seek to establish an optimal breeding program that will help reduce the beef sectors environmental footprint by incorporating key environmental traits into genetic evaluations”.
“As a GREENBREED herd the following benefits are available:
Large discounted rates for genotyping.
Potential involvement in pilot DNA based calf registration.”

I have something to light the fire with in the morning at least.

50HX · 22-07-2019 11:14pm

Got the same here,

They should have picked the herds they wanted and just give them free genotyping

What you doing lighting a fire in this weather:D

pure breed · 22-07-2019 11:26pm

Same letter here.
Only Cows are "free" for future genotyping and calves 11euros which is OK but won't most cows be genotyped anyway hence why the herd has been selected in first place, but I think there'll be alot of letters sent out.

Hard Knocks · 23-07-2019 10:56pm

pure breed wrote: »

Same letter here.
Only Cows are "free" for future genotyping and calves 11euros which is OK but won't most cows be genotyped anyway hence why the herd has been selected in first place, but I think there'll be alot of letters sent out.

Gave them a call
It’s a recording program - whole herd, dna tags & weights.
Ideally a few weights through out the year, the farmer can diy
Commercial stock will only be weighed while PB stock will be scored & weighed on WHPR visit.
They will not be interfering in breeding program

blue5000 · 24-07-2019 3:35pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Gave them a call
It’s a recording program - whole herd, dna tags & weights.
Ideally a few weights through out the year, the farmer can diy
Commercial stock will only be weighed while PB stock will be scored & weighed on WHPR visit.
They will not be interfering in breeding program

So extra work for geno discount is that it?

Hard Knocks · 24-07-2019 7:03pm

blue5000 wrote: »

So extra work for geno discount is that it?

That ‘s about it
Sure the whole herd program is a cost to the farmer with benefits only to icbf
Had a bull on Bull finder with over 150 views & not 1 call

Bellview · 25-07-2019 12:24pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

That ‘s about it
Sure the whole herd program is a cost to the farmer with benefits only to icbf
Had a bull on Bull finder with over 150 views & not 1 call

I know a few lads on the bull finder and the calls they received was a lad looking for a bargain. One interesting thing on bull finder though is you can see bulls weights who have really low weights.and they are still 45 star.. I have seen 18 month angus bulls and they were 450 kg .. begs question how are these bulls not dropped in stars... is there any consequence for bad numbers or is scheme just a money exercise with little benefits for the breeders or the breed covered

Hard Knocks · 25-07-2019 6:23pm

Bellview wrote: »

I know a few lads on the bull finder and the calls they received was a lad looking for a bargain. One interesting thing on bull finder though is you can see bulls weights who have really low weights.and they are still 45 star.. I have seen 18 month angus bulls and they were 450 kg .. begs question how are these bulls not dropped in stars... is there any consequence for bad numbers or is scheme just a money exercise with little benefits for the breeders or the breed covered

Think trying to justify the herdplus & scoring cost

hanifanze · 04-08-2019 12:07pm

Anyone have any calves from the lim bull from dovea kjb?

Lime Tree Farm · 04-08-2019 12:44pm

hanifanze wrote: »

Anyone have any calves from the lim bull from dovea kjb?

we have cow by kjb, she is my favourite, lovely appearance, and extremely quiet. She had her first heifer calf this year.

She lost her first bull calf, it was premature, she was probably bullied by another cow. She readily reared another calf.

tanko · 04-08-2019 3:13pm

hanifanze wrote: »

Anyone have any calves from the lim bull from dovea kjb?

Put him on some cows five years ago,he can breed a super heifer but there's problems with him. His gestation length is a joke, the worst of any bull i've ever used, ten months wouldn't be unusual, easy calved on cows tho.
Some of the calves off him stay small and don't grow enough.
Better choices out there i reckon.

patsy_mccabe · 23-09-2019 4:47pm

New proofs now up for September.

Bellview · 22-11-2019 10:35am

Nov proofs available today.. some light reading for all ..

patsy_mccabe · 22-11-2019 10:39am

I see the €38,00 Limousin bull Goldies Jackpot, now scores in the bottom 1% for functionality. He's also in the bottom 1% for calving. Dear, oh dear!!!!!!!

Simmental. · 23-01-2020 9:11pm

ICBF are providing separate calving difficulties for heifers and cows now

Bellview · 24-01-2020 1:41am

Simmental. wrote: »

ICBF are providing separate calving difficulties for heifers and cows now

just reviewed the new calving % .. my initial thought is it will create crazy confusion at bull sales this year.. we have angus so now there is a beef cow metric, beef heifer metric, dairy cow metric and dairy heifer metric... and the same animal could range from 0.5% for beef cow to 7% for dairy heifer... instead of trying to keep metrics simple .. ICBF have really made this as complex to the point farmers will be completely confused in 2020... in my opinion whoever thought this was a great idea didn't spend much time farming

GiantPencil · 24-01-2020 3:22pm

Bellview wrote: »

just reviewed the new calving % .. my initial thought is it will create crazy confusion at bull sales this year.. we have angus so now there is a beef cow metric, beef heifer metric, dairy cow metric and dairy heifer metric... and the same animal could range from 0.5% for beef cow to 7% for dairy heifer... instead of trying to keep metrics simple .. ICBF have really made this as complex to the point farmers will be completely confused in 2020... in my opinion whoever thought this was a great idea didn't spend much time farming

I work in a data and analytical job so I love this new breakout but I agree that to the average farmer this is just going to confuse them. Would be great if ICBF did more presentation workshops where they explain the information especially thinks like the Milk figures and how to interpret the within herd stuff

patsy_mccabe · 24-01-2020 8:15pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

I work in a data and analytical job so I love this new breakout but I agree that to the average farmer this is just going to confuse them. Would be great if ICBF did more presentation workshops where they explain the information especially thinks like the Milk figures and how to interpret the within herd stuff

I have an Excel spreadsheet set-up to read the values automatically from ICBF for all my cows here. This new change throws it all up on a heap. :mad:

Bellview · 26-01-2020 1:24am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I have an Excel spreadsheet set-up to read the values automatically from ICBF for all my cows here. This new change throws it all up on a heap. :mad:

I took the nov proofs and focused on AI bulls only calving diff.. I will post a summary but bulls that were ie 2% calving diff in nov their beef and dairy calving diff are very different... lines up a lot of confusion at spring sales.. and I have rang icbf and they don’t have a dummies guide to how the new calving diff is associated to new ones.. as usual the farmers will have to try figure out the new metrics

blue5000 · 26-01-2020 2:06pm

Bellview wrote: »

I took the nov proofs and focused on AI bulls only calving diff.. I will post a summary but bulls that were ie 2% calving diff in nov their beef and dairy calving diff are very different... lines up a lot of confusion at spring sales.. and I have rang icbf and they don’t have a dummies guide to how the new calving diff is associated to new ones.. as usual the farmers will have to try figure out the new metrics

Basil Lowman had an article in farmers weekly about daughters of easy calving bulls not having calving ability themselves, I must look it up and see if there's a connection.

dh1985 · 26-01-2020 5:18pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Basil Lowman had an article in farmers weekly about daughters of easy calving bulls not having calving ability themselves, I must look it up and see if there's a connection.

It would be interesting to see a graphical representation for the top 10 AI terminal and maternal over the past 5 years to show some indicator or the level of accuracy these star figures actual are. See how the stars for certain bulls trends up or down.
One bull that comes to mind is HCA. He was the number one or damn near number one replacement bull 4 to 5 years back. Hes two star today. I had calves off him out of good cows. Narrow rags of things.
They seem to keep changing/adjusting the metrics and how things are calculated. I wonder if we are any closer now than five years ago to accurate results.

Mac Taylor · 26-01-2020 7:06pm

dh1985 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see a graphical representation for the top 10 AI terminal and maternal over the past 5 years to show some indicator or the level of accuracy these star figures actual are. See how the stars for certain bulls trends up or down.
One bull that comes to mind is HCA. He was the number one or damn near number one replacement bull 4 to 5 years back. Hes two star today. I had calves off him out of good cows. Narrow rags of things.
They seem to keep changing/adjusting the metrics and how things are calculated. I wonder if we are any closer now than five years ago to accurate results.

With regards hca, I’ve 5 off him off dairy crosses and while the cows themselves are average I’m happy enough with their offspring. I’ve only calved one of their offspring to date and no issues, I’ve a few more this year so we’ll see.

grassroot1 · 27-01-2020 4:35pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Basil Lowman had an article in farmers weekly about daughters of easy calving bulls not having calving ability themselves, I must look it up and see if there's a connection.

That article was a while ago;I think there might have been something about selecting for higher fat score too as an aid to overwintering suckler cows?

TPF2012 · 27-01-2020 9:35pm

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=15061&utm_content=buffer0751f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3ue7m3MtkLkg6JZ9fuKmII-i4Zz10wjSKOeDgSOtOq7Vp6s97hiwwpSLQ

Conversion chart for old figures to latest incarnation.

Bellview · 28-01-2020 12:54am

TPF2012 wrote: »

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=15061&utm_content=buffer0751f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3ue7m3MtkLkg6JZ9fuKmII-i4Zz10wjSKOeDgSOtOq7Vp6s97hiwwpSLQ

Conversion chart for old figures to latest incarnation.

thanks this is helpful - the ranges though are massive ie from 0.1% to 2.4% old calving difficulty, this covers a wide range in the old metric.

I have reviewed a numebr of the AI bulls comparing the Nov measure & new Jan measures.
I have taken Angus at 0.3% in November and using the beef heifer metric we now have CD% of between 1.67% to 4.12%... 2 months ago these same bulls were super easy... with ranges like this i can see farmers being rightly confused.. in old days a bull of less that 2% CD was easy.. now we have to learn a new metric

Sugarbowl · 21-02-2020 5:33pm

Does anyone know where you can see on ICBF how many calves a bull has? I used to be able to see it before but can’t put my finger on where it was? Thanks

patsy_mccabe · 21-02-2020 5:38pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Does anyone know where you can see on ICBF how many calves a bull has? I used to be able to see it before but can’t put my finger on where it was? Thanks

Click the tab EVALUATION HISTORY on the first page and go down to the bottom. They only have the new totals there now for the 2 types of calving. The old calving numbers are not shown.

For example for Feb 2020, the bull ZAG has 14,499 calvings to heifers and 25,025 calvings to cows.

Sugarbowl · 22-02-2020 6:07pm

Thanks Patsy - does this work on the ICBF app on the phone? I don’t see it...

patsy_mccabe · 22-02-2020 6:32pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Thanks Patsy - does this work on the ICBF app on the phone? I don’t see it...

Ya, the TAB is called 'PREV EVAL' under 'MORE' on the first page.

Sugarbowl · 22-02-2020 6:45pm

Got it there now cheers for that

patsy_mccabe · 25-03-2020 11:55am

March poofs up now.

Lady Haywire · 25-03-2020 12:05pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

March poofs up now.

Is it all about Benji :pac:

GiantPencil · 25-03-2020 9:16pm

Has the Calving tab always been there or is it new with this update? Always wondered when I was going to see that info and was I just wasting my time weighing and taking measurements of calves. Nice to see the information being displayed now

patsy_mccabe · 25-03-2020 9:47pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

Has the Calving tab always been there or is it new with this update? Always wondered when I was going to see that info and was I just wasting my time weighing and taking measurements of calves. Nice to see the information being displayed now

That's new alright. A whole lot of new information in there.
Gestation in days is in there.

Lime Tree Farm · 25-03-2020 9:56pm

I hadn't noticed the extra tab for Recording birth events, weight, presentation etc.

Anyone know if this is required or is it optional ? Or is this a requirement only for Pedigree progeny.

adne · 18-05-2020 8:51pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I see the €38,00 Limousin bull Goldies Jackpot, now scores in the bottom 1% for functionality. He's also in the bottom 1% for calving. Dear, oh dear!!!!!!!

Many people calve jackpot calves. What's he like for calving. Hows the quality?

patsy_mccabe · 18-05-2020 9:25pm

adne wrote: »

Many people calve jackpot calves. What's he like for calving. Hows the quality?

High Bike on here has used him.

Future Farmer · 18-05-2020 11:33pm

adne wrote: »

Many people calve jackpot calves. What's he like for calving. Hows the quality?

The 1% funct is only at 62%.

The Jackpots I have seen have been generally very good.

Be interesting to see what the daughters are like as mature cows.

adne · 19-05-2020 7:03am

Future Farmer wrote: »

The 1% funct is only at 62%.

The Jackpots I have seen have been generally very good.

Be interesting to see what the daughters are like as mature cows.

What's the main reason for the 1% funct. Sickled legs?

patsy_mccabe · 19-05-2020 11:04am

adne wrote: »

What's the main reason for the 1% funct. Sickled legs?

From the front, the front toes are sticking out. He scores -4.42 for this.

GiantPencil · 26-05-2020 5:15pm

May Update is live now, next one is July 21st. Beguin the Salers bull is back as #1 in the replacement index

patsy_mccabe · 26-05-2020 5:26pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

May Update is live now, next one is July 21st. Beguin the Salers bull is back as #1 in the replacement index

I read that as back to 1 star in replacement. :rolleyes: God he's some bull on paper anyway.

Hard Knocks · 14-07-2020 11:52am

I see the July proof is put to 4th August

Bellview · 14-07-2020 1:53pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

I see the July proof is put to 4th August

It would be good if icbf were able to pull forward the Oct proof by a week or so as might help anyone that might be short one or two animals to Buy the animal required to meet scheme targets

new ICBF Proofs

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