Off Topic Thread 4.0

bilston wrote: »

How long you supported Wolves?

3 weeks?

Hey now I'm a Wolves fan as well and its been a long, long road for us so let us have our moment! I'm sure it'll all come down on top of us eventually but maybe we'll get one joyful season out of it. Out of Darkness cometh light and all that.

Anyway I still love Jose. Absolutely one of the best sports managers/coaches in the world. His press conference was a masterclass last night. The journos will be able to set the narrative that he's throwing the toys out of the pram in the press but his players will have watched that and taken a lot from it. Things probably won't work out for Mourinho at United because the club don't seem to agree with his philosophies but I will enjoy watching him, and looking forward to Wolves going there in September!

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Anyway I still love Jose. Absolutely one of the best sports managers/coaches in the world. His press conference was a masterclass last night. The journos will be able to set the narrative that he's throwing the toys out of the pram in the press but his players will have watched that and taken a lot from it. Things probably won't work out for Mourinho at United because the club don't seem to agree with his philosophies but I will enjoy watching him, and looking forward to Wolves going there in September!

Mourinho was brilliant. His time is done. I think you're giving him far too much credit to say that his performance last night was a masterclass. I'm not sure his players are taking anything from him. That press conference was nothing unusual for him, filled with deflection and whataboutery and it certainly isn't having a positive impact on his team. He's still entertaining but that's just because he's a bit of a loose cannon.

I don't think it's a disagreement on philosophies either that is the issue. Whatever magic he had to create an atmosphere of absolute devotion from his players seems to have evaportated. He no longer can cultivate relationships like the ones he had with Drogba, Terry and Materazzi. If he doesn't win a league this season, it will be one title in seven seasons which is a very poor return for the amount of money spent by him.

Management tends to be a game for younger managers of late. Mourinho is 56 this season and I think he's become bitter and somewhat detached from his players.

Buer wrote: »

Mourinho was brilliant. His time is done. I think you're giving him far too much credit to say that his performance last night was a masterclass. I'm not sure his players are taking anything from him. That press conference was nothing unusual for him, filled with deflection and whataboutery and it certainly isn't having a positive impact on his team. He's still entertaining but that's just because he's a bit of a loose cannon.

Whataboutery and deflections... that's exactly what a press conference is supposed to be! But in reality he wasn't deflecting, he was pretty straightforward with the press.

When he came back to that journalists he said: "I'm sorry, you have to tell me what is the most important thing for you because I don't know. When I win matches I come in here many times and you are not happy that I've won. You say that the most important thing is the way of playing. You need to make a decision in relation to that because I need to know from you what is the most important thing, if it is to play well or if it is to win matches. If it is to play offensively or if it is to play for a certain result. Today we were aggressive, we press high, Tottenham couldn't make two passes coming from the back, they made lots of mistakes because of our pressure. We project the full backs, we had Valencia and Luke Shaw arriving in dangerous positions. We missed goals with an open goal. We missed chances, we were unlucky in rebounds in both goals. We lost the game because we conceded a goal in the first corner of the match against us, on the minute 50-something. In the first half, 0 corners, 0 lateral free kicks, 0 frontal free kicks. On the minute 50-something they had 1 corner, they scored a goal. And you want with that goal, to transform the story of the game."

That's exactly what his players want to hear. Now there are obvious flaws with his premise (that you either try to play well or try to win), but its an accurate analysis of the game, which is important in legitimising his later criticism. Spurs had a single shot on target in the first half. (or if you're a nerd the expected goals was 0.35 until the 65th minute despite being 2-0 up). The athletes will know that he is right. Soccer is a sport in particular where the journalists and bloggers are lightyears out of touch with the high performance athletes, there's a major disconnect. He's doing exactly the right thing by using a good performance to try to create a siege mentality and take the spotlight off his players as much as possible. Whether or not it works with fans is up in the air, but I'd be very surprised if it hasn't planted a flag for the players to rally around.

Anyway I dislike the club for other reasons so a big part of me hopes they don't turn it around and he heads off somewhere else, I just hope it's still the Premiership because I love the entertainment of it. And maybe he'll never win another title, but the league benefits from his presence.

Buer wrote: »

The above is defending his players and making a case for their performance. But it's absolutely deflection to then go on a tangent and start questioning how many titles other managers have won and highlighting the number he has won...none recently. That's absolutely irrelevant to the press conference and, whilst the players might be glad to hear the backing in the quoted section above, they'll surely be rolling their eyes at him reverting to type and making it about himself.

He has done enough damage already throughout his time there in terms of criticising his players and lack of signings to put his relationship with the players on the ropes. Trying to defend a performance when they lose 3-0 is not really going to assuage the concerns of guys like Valencia or Pogba who have been publicly criticised by him particularly when he then finishes on the usual bizarre note.

The conference may have been smart thinking in isolation but we've seen this a number of times at this stage. The tactic and approach can only have a very limited impact with the players at this point. By the end, it came across to me as Mourinho circling wagons around himself much more than his team.

Have to completely disagree with you there. Whatever about him not winning anything recently, everything I've seen from guys in environments like that suggests strongly to me that it will play perfectly with them.

All this same stuff was being said about him back when he was winning titles, including by me btw, about how the players were surely rolling their eyes at his antics, at how he was childish, and how they would see right through it. We've since found out that the exact opposite was true.

The finishing note wasn't bizarre at all to me. It's just bizarre if you don't watch the whole thing and even moreso for those who didn't watch the match and just saw the score. Of course the only thing being shown by the press is exactly that clip without any of the preceding questions, because the storyline of him going off the rails and losing control is the one that people want to believe, but he was actually pretty well spoken and engaged in both his post-match interview and the rest of the press conference. But the audience he cares about, conveniently enough, saw it all!

Synode wrote: »

They also had a 2 on 1 that they absolutely should have scored but the pass never went to Kane. I thought they looked comfortably the better side throughout the game and it was only a matter of time before they scored. United's defence was an absolute shambles. Jose is delusional thinking United should have been 2 or 3 up at half time.

They didn't have a single shot until the 39th minute. By that stage United had had 4 strong chances on goal, normally they would have been winning at that stage.

He's absolutely right in reality, your reading of the game is just wrong. Expected Goals are derived to tell us exactly this kind of information. At the 65th minute it was 1.07 - 0.35, despite Spurs having a 2 goal lead. Over the course of the game United had 23 shots, Spurs had 9.

Synode wrote: »

Expected goals :pac::pac: So United should have won yeah

Well I mean I don't think I should have to say this, but if you want to actually read what was written, then fire away

Synode wrote: »

You'll have to explain expected goals to me IBF. What was the expected goals final result?

It depends on what type you're using (because there are a few depending on your stats-provider). If it's just expected goals from shots then Spurs were ahead 1.81 - 1.4. If you use non-shots as well then I think United were slightly ahead at the end, but at that stage its extremely abstracted and not a great metric to say who should have won any game in my opinion.

But none of this says who should have won. It just tells you who were creating opportunities. It justifies the statement that United would normally have scored in the first half given the opportunitues they created. I think once you start using stats like that to say who should have won games you start to miss the point of them. Because if a team has a shots but those are all blocked shots then you could say it was a great defensive performance to block them. Or if they're all saved shots you could say it was a great goalkeeping performance.

It's just a hipster/nerd version of attempts on goal.

Synode wrote: »

I'd always pay more attention to the shots on target stats. 5 each. 3 of Spurs were goals. 0 of United's were. United did have a few chances in the first half but none of them looked as clear cut a goal as Spurs 2 on 1, which they should have buried. As the 1st half wore on it was clear to see that it was only a matter of time before United's defence got punished. So I stand by my statement, Mourinho is delusional saying they should have been 2 or 3 up at half time.

None looked as clear cut a goal as Lukaku's open goal? Or his free header? Or his shot from the edge of the six yard box that was saved? That was all in the first half. The reality is that shots on target is just a version of the exact same statistic with all the context removed, there's no real reason to pay more attention to it at all. United had 10 shots at half time, Spurs had 2. But supposedly it was clear!

Anyway, I'd say there's probably usually nothing more delusional than an amateur fan of any sport calling the analysis of a professional with a long history of success delusional!

kuang1 wrote: »

The first quote for my house build has come in about €70,000 over what I was led to believe it would be. Jaw still on the floor.

Boom is back. Builders are up the walls and no mistake.

2 builders I contacted wouldn't price it as they don't have the time/manpower to build it.

(this is in Waterford btw)

To be honest, I'm not surprised. Don't be too dispirited. There's a pretty large variance in quotes from builders depending on their availability.

When we tendered our renovation, some of the contractors quoted about 40% more than others. Essentially, they had work coming out their ears and didn't need it. If we wanted them, they were going to make sure we paid over the odds.

Unfortunately, the boom is back as you say. Not many builders that don't have plenty on right now. Our plumber and electrician were both in our house working on Sundays during our renovation simply because there weren't enough hours in the day for them and they have to make money while the going is good.

Don't listen to sydthebeat I'll do it for 250