Future of beef production in Ireland.

older by the day · 18-07-2019 11:10pm

It's hard to know the future. But if farmers don't stand up soon it don't look good. When I came home farming here every one had sows and pigs. Even non farmers kept a couple of sows. Ration prices kept rising put the pig prices kept going down. The marts stopping selling pigs and one by one we all have up. A biscuit for anyone who can spot the similarities with beef today

ruwithme · 18-07-2019 11:36pm

As may have been mentioned earlier in thread, we need a excellent environmental scheme with sensible measures and agood payment rate with a focus on the small farm holding being able to get a decent amount of money out of it.

if there is a future on land without being a dairy farmer in ireland it will be through the cheque in the post as has being much the case for the last two decades .

if we think we are smart at what we do?we need to smarten up alot in the years ahead to be able to remain on the land.

i really do think there is opportunity to get alot more money from Europe for environment friendly farming. it just might not be pretty though.

Base price · 19-07-2019 12:13am

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Well its hard to know which is worse have the clowns in Dublin tell us what to do or the crowd in Europe telling us. The Irish government has no regard for Irish people anymore, im in Australia at the minute as a foreignor and the Queen of England has more time for us here than the Irish government ever had for us back home. Also the public here have respect for the farners too in the time of drought here last year pubs were running "parma for a farmer" one nightva week every chicken parma bought that night they send the price of it to the buy a bale fund, buy a bale had a collection box on most bar counters with most pubs donating 50c from every pint sold one night a week going into the fund aswell. When it was revealed milk was sold as a loss leader aswell and the farmers werent making any profit from the milk there was strong backlash from the public too.

Eldest has been working on the buildings in Melbourne for the last 3 years and when the call came out about the hardship that farmers were having over the drought the crew that he works with paid their overtime Saturday work to the drought fund. It had nothing to do with the Queen of England, it was simply down to Irish farmers sons/daughters supporting farmers in hardship.

Base price · 19-07-2019 12:15am

Say my name wrote: »

My own take on the future.

It'll be small producer groups. Groups that do their own thing and not be led by bdgp schemes or the next beef reduction handout. Groups that use their smarts and are led by passion for what they do. Groups that use the original low cost beef breeds native to this country and don't deviate for foreign systems. Groups that sell as one and have their own portable butchering facilities. Groups that restaurants would be falling over themselves to have on their menus. Groups that consumers recognize and actively look to buy their produce. Groups that promote their biodiversity and environmental production systems. Groups that decide themselves what age that animal will be slaughtered to have the ultimate taste quality.
People will still be part time but maybe enjoy the farming more.

There's my ...two cents.

Not been facetious but you are a dairy farmer :rolleyes:

TPF2012 · 19-07-2019 12:23am

carrollsno1 wrote:

. When it was revealed milk was sold as a loss leader aswell and the farmers werent making any profit from the milk there was strong backlash from the public too.

Never happen in this country. The man and women on the street in Ireland has the perception of all farmers getting the free money- big cheque- from Europe. No sympathy will be coming.

Base price · 19-07-2019 12:37am

148multi wrote: »

Agree fully, seen before the bse stock were on fire nothing could stop lads.
The swine flu could kill 250,000 pigs in China alone, its in Europe already, is the whole world going to live on chicken. Our problem is a combination of things, for one Teagasc, the government and Europe want to throw us under the bus, but won't say so. Look what happened in NZ with the sheep, when subs stopped ewe numbers fell but production increased. We have something like 950,000 sucklers but only 750,000 calves, that's a lot of dead weight. How many dairy farmers would keep a cow that wasn't milking. I see lads afraid to let cows out before calving, but it's one of the best things to do, helps with disease, milk output, and fertility.

I think you meant 2.5 million pigs.

carrollsno1 · 19-07-2019 12:41am

Base price wrote: »

Eldest has been working on the buildings in Melbourne for the last 3 years and when the call came out about the hardship that farmers were having over the drought the crew that he works with paid their overtime Saturday work to the drought fund. It had nothing to do with the Queen of England, it was simply down to Irish farmers sons/daughters supporting farmers in hardship.

The Queen of England point i made earlier is in relation to us paying tax to the Queen and were covered if we have an accident out here because of it.
Its not simply down to Irish farmers sons or daughters either the whole nation of Australis got behind supporting the farmers here.

Base price · 19-07-2019 1:46am

carrollsno1 wrote: »

The Queen of England point i made earlier is in relation to us paying tax to the Queen and were covered if we have an accident out here because of it.
Its not simply down to Irish farmers sons or daughters either the whole nation of Australis got behind supporting the farmers here.

If you are legally employed (work permit etc) your social contributions are automatically included the same way as if you were working at home - see https://www.ato.gov.au/
Also I think you are automatically covered for insurance but you need to read the terms and conditions of employment.

carrollsno1 · 19-07-2019 2:56am

Base price wrote: »

If you are legally employed (work permit etc) your social contributions are automatically included the same way as if you were working at home - see https://www.ato.gov.au/
Also I think you are automatically covered for insurance but you need to read the terms and conditions of employment.

Yes but af home if we were to have an accident thar meant we couldnt work for some time we wouldnt be as well looked after as we would out here.

148multi · 19-07-2019 5:14am

Base price wrote: »

I think you meant 2.5 million pigs.

400 million pig's in China, over a quarter dead already and they say it's only the start.

20silkcut · 19-07-2019 7:32am

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

And what’ll happen the dept of Ag boys and girls?
They’re not going to disappear with the the euro, and I don’t see them re-writing the rule book... so we’ll just be in the ****, no SFP and the same rules...

I think a lot of the finer details in the regulations are influenced by the bigger farmers in this country to make it difficult for just anyone to increase numbers. Things are a lot more relaxed as regards sheds and slurry storage in other countries under the same EU regime.
I follow the funky farmer on you tube. His farm is 2-300 miles away from mine as the crow flies so pretty similar climate.
He has no slurry storage. In winter his Cattle are out on a big concrete yard grazing the silage pit. Everything goes up a ramp into a muckspreader every day. Either spreads it or dumps it depending on conditions.
You’d be nearly arrested for that in this country.

_Brian · 19-07-2019 7:40am

148multi wrote: »

400 million pig's in China, over a quarter dead already and they say it's only the start.

Pork is a massive foodstuff in China, this will have a devastating effect on their food supply.
It will be hard kept out of Ireland, number of contaminated products already being sorted at entry points here.

However, it’s an ill wind blows no good as it’s driving demand for meat from across the world. I don’t think it will have much effect on beef prices unless the Chinese government start subsidising purchasing which may indeed happen as the cull of the swine herd continues.

wrangler · 19-07-2019 7:56am

20silkcut wrote: »

I think a lot of the finer details in the regulations are influenced by the bigger farmers in this country to make it difficult for just anyone to increase numbers. Things are a lot more relaxed as regards sheds and slurry storage in other countries under the same EU regime.
I follow the funky farmer on you tube. His farm is 2-300 miles away from mine as the crow flies so pretty similar climate.
He has no slurry storage. In winter his Cattle are out on a big concrete yard grazing the silage pit. Everything goes up a ramp into a muckspreader every day. Either spreads it or dumps it depending on conditions.
You’d be nearly arrested for that in this country.

I'm getting enough hassle here from the neighbours over the smell of slurry spreading without polluting the rivers as well

Say my name · 19-07-2019 8:41am

Base price wrote: »

Not been facetious but you are a dairy farmer :rolleyes:

I know. ..ye hate being told what ye should be doing. :pac:

Loving it. Larry style.

20silkcut · 19-07-2019 9:08am

wrangler wrote: »

I'm getting enough hassle here from the neighbours over the smell of slurry spreading without polluting the rivers as well

He spreads it on a dry field on a dry day and heaps it a corner of a dry field on a wet day. He doesn’t spread it into the river.
Pretty much the way it was in this country 30 or 40 years ago I suppose.
Obviously I’m not advocating we go back to that but it is my theory that a lot of the regulations in this country are less to do with the environment and more to do with making it difficult to grow your farm to a sustainable size without jumping through huge hoops and putting your financial life on the line.
Ireland has an oversupply of agricultural products.
Britain has an undersupply. Maybe that’s why things are so different between the two countries.

wrangler · 19-07-2019 9:14am

20silkcut wrote: »

He spreads it on a dry field on a dry day and heaps it a corner of a dry field on a wet day. He doesn’t spread it into the river.
Pretty much the way it was in this country 30 or 40 years ago I suppose.
Obviously I’m not advocating we go back to that but it is my theory that a lot of the regulations in this country are less to do with the environment and more to do with making it difficult to grow your farm to a sustainable size without jumping through huge hoops.
Ireland has an oversupply of agricultural products.
Britain has an undersupply. Maybe that’s why things are so different between the two countries.

And they don't encourage one-off housing over there either, lovely to see the thousands of acres of farmland without the ghettos built here and there through them, must be great peace

jaymla627 · 19-07-2019 9:15am

20silkcut wrote: »

He spreads it on a dry field on a dry day and heaps it a corner of a dry field on a wet day. He doesn’t spread it into the river.
Pretty much the way it was in this country 30 or 40 years ago I suppose.
Obviously I’m not advocating we go back to that but it is my theory that a lot of the regulations in this country are less to do with the environment and more to do with making it difficult to grow your farm to a sustainable size without jumping through huge hoops and putting your financial life on the line.
Ireland has an oversupply of agricultural products.
Britain has an undersupply. Maybe that’s why things are so different between the two countries.

Haven’t submitted any land details here the past 2 years for the sfp and would grossly overstocked on paper, not so much as a letter since, if you go of grid and don’t draw any sfp/tams/glas they won’t bother with you

wrangler · 19-07-2019 9:21am

jaymla627 wrote: »

Haven’t submitted any land details here the past 2 years for the sfp and would grossly overstocked on paper, not so much as a letter since, if you go of grid and don’t draw any sfp/tams/glas they won’t bother with you

You are monitored by the council if you've any sort of an intensive looking yard, drive by inspections is what they call it here.
The last meeting I was involved with they claimed they did 900 drive by inspections and followed up on over 80 in this county

Keep Sluicing · 19-07-2019 9:23am

wrangler wrote: »

You are monitored by the council if you've any sort of an intensive looking yard, drive by inspections is what they call it here.
The last meeting I was involved with they claimed they did 900 drive by inspections and followed up on over 80 in this county

Councils have no interest in farms in West Cork.... thank god.

coolshannagh28 · 19-07-2019 9:51am

20silkcut wrote: »

He spreads it on a dry field on a dry day and heaps it a corner of a dry field on a wet day. He doesn’t spread it into the river.
Pretty much the way it was in this country 30 or 40 years ago I suppose.
Obviously I’m not advocating we go back to that but it is my theory that a lot of the regulations in this country are less to do with the environment and more to do with making it difficult to grow your farm to a sustainable size without jumping through huge hoops and putting your financial life on the line.
Ireland has an oversupply of agricultural products.
Britain has an undersupply. Maybe that’s why things are so different between the two countries.

The Dept is a make work scheme in this country and that's before you look at Teagasc and the myriad of advisors etc who have to be taken care of.

Dozer1 · 19-07-2019 10:02am

"Councils have no interest in farms in West Cork.... thank god"......I wouldn't bet on that lasting

wrangler · 19-07-2019 10:26am

Dozer1 wrote: »

"Councils have no interest in farms in West Cork.... thank god"......I wouldn't bet on that lasting

There's a few farmers that thought that in this county too. :rolleyes:
You're always being watched

jaymla627 · 19-07-2019 10:50am

Dozer1 wrote: »

"Councils have no interest in farms in West Cork.... thank god"......I wouldn't bet on that lasting

How so, going forward in the local councils their isn’t going to be mass recruitment of new inspectors to police farms, the state the countries finances will be in if a recession hits our a hard beitexit means the funding won’t be their...
Another issue given the practice of Irish water and local councils of releasing raw sewerage into the sea and waterways means they themselves don’t want a rigorous testing regimen for water quality/pollution going forward as the funding isn’t their to upgrade/build plants to deal with their own in-house problems

Dozer1 · 19-07-2019 11:09am

From a council perspective I see farmyards becoming an easy target, as said here multiple times the farming community and lobby is shrinking vegans/doogooders
an Taisce etc are having a bigger influence.

They're not going to target big multinationals or Irish water sites etc as polluters it'll be the easy guys like us who take our medicine and pay fines.
I'm not saying farmers are polluters but i'd bet they'll find something to pick on.

I have a tiny farmyard at my dad's place never house stock there and yet its inspected every second year as its close enough to a river.

Welding Rod · 19-07-2019 11:25am

A lot of talk from lads about cutting stocking levels, fertilizer, and general costs etc, as the solution to all problems in beef and suckling etc.
Thing is it’s difficult to stop the place from going to pot, it it isn’t reasonably well stocked. I can see it already in various nice farms, where the low stocking, low input solution, is really showing up as declining quality and overall upkeep on the farms in question.

Better by far I reckon to plant a portion of the farm, and keep the remainder ticking over with reasonable stock levels relative to its potential.

And watching the country and it’s dog abandoning suckler cows, is a good indicator to lads reasonably good at it to stay in the game. When the crowd is going south, followed by more who bend with every breeze, it’s time to head quietly the other way.

TPF2012 · 19-07-2019 11:39am

Dozer1 wrote:

From a council perspective I see farmyards becoming an easy target, as said here multiple times the farming community and lobby is shrinking vegans/doogooders an Taisce etc are having a bigger influence.

Councils are in the main only going to inspect a farm if they get a complaint of pollution in the area. Very small number of planned inspections from council staff, don't have the numbers.

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2019 12:06pm

ScottCapper wrote: »

What about 1000+ so

Farms that are highly stocked or have larger numbers are usually into machinery big time. Most are family run operation's. These are really struggling with the last 3-3 years. Expensive rations, and inputs. Is killing them .As well most have a lot of there machinery on lease and have large overhead's. unless they have fixed price contracts most are going out of business. This is why lads that are finishing are exiting the business. Bigger numbers often mean bigger overheads( rented land, leased machinery, ration, sheds and s lad buying every day which translates to larger losses

Just keeping my head above water. Will be depending on store price to see where profit is this year. But lads need to reduce ration as an input. Any beef produced off ration leaves little margin or profit. Bills drove ration as an input. But with cuts to bulls and weights it's not lossmaking to be using large amounts of it.

Simple paddock systems , manage you grass and stock to what is profitable to your system.

Box09 · 19-07-2019 12:14pm

wrangler wrote:

You are monitored by the council if you've any sort of an intensive looking yard, drive by inspections is what they call it here. The last meeting I was involved with they claimed they did 900 drive by inspections and followed up on over 80 in this county

Never heard of inspections from the council for farms in wicklow

wrangler · 19-07-2019 12:20pm

Box09 wrote: »

Never heard of inspections from the council for farms in wicklow

They're busy here, the lakes here I guess, but they'd give you six months to fix before referring it to Department Ag if the offence wasn't serious

148multi · 19-07-2019 12:49pm

wrangler wrote: »

They're busy here, the lakes here I guess, but they'd give you six months to fix before referring it to Department Ag if the offence wasn't serious

Council are at it here too, they picked a river with little pollution, had meetings for farmers and house owners separately, some lads annoyed because the river passing the county towns sewage treatment plant is very badly polluted. They are giving people a chance to clean up from my view.

Future of beef production in Ireland.

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