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WALKER (2018) Saorview Combo WPS818C

  • 04-08-2018 7:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭


    Hi Guys, I picked up a new Combo in Powercity yesterday

    https://powercity.ie/product/WPS818C

    Product Information:
    saorview approved hd combi box
    simple channel menu
    all your channels in one place
    irish tv saorview aerial input
    uk tv satellite dish input
    rte radio channels
    automatic channel search
    hdmi connect to tv
    analog a/v output
    connects to existing aerial system
    rte digital teletext
    7 day electronic programme guide
    record needs usb key or hdd

    Features:
    BRAND : WALKER
    SAORVIEW APPROVED : SAORVIEW AND SATELLITE
    UK TV STATIONS VIA SATELLITE : YES

    WALKER SAORVIEW APPROVED COMBI BOX
    Product Code: WPS818C
    Warranty: 2 Years Parts and Labour

    €89.95

    So far so good with the Box
    Easy Setup
    The box is DVB-T2
    All channels both terrestrial and Satellite on one single EPG
    Channels can be easily organised on a favourites list
    Some Internet features, Google and some apps available
    Digital Aertel working on both Terrestrial Channels and Satellite.

    I'm using the box for Saorsat and Freeview HD, all working perfect at the moment.

    On initial set up it gave the option to install a preset channel list for Astra 2 (didn’t try it as I’m using Saorsat).

    Recording is working, select programmes from TV guide for recording/timers etc, (I connected a seperate hard drive/USB)
    Pause live TV also working

    Nice Remote Control, big buttons, easy to use (the same control as the older Walker Combo)

    Very good picture quality, up to 1080p


«13456

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    7 day EPG on satellite?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    7 day EPG on satellite?

    Not tested on Astra 2 yet (UK Sat channels)

    7 day epg on Saorsat working perfect


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Not tested on Astra 2 yet (UK Sat channels)

    7 day epg on Saorsat working perfect

    It will, satellite is the big test and the reason why most opt for Linux boxes and roll their own


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Interesting. I notice it states that satellite and terrestrial channels are all on one EPG, so I guess it'll be more like their current TV range, where satellite channels start at 301, much handier than swapping between satellite and terrestrial like their previous combi box.

    Shame it has no "Connect" but then, it does have some apps, whatever they are? Having Netflix on it would be a plus, something really lacking on the Powerpoint Connect box. I wonder if connected online, will it have the same issue that the TV's have, where being on BBC can cause TV to restart.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    byte wrote: »
    Interesting. I notice it states that satellite and terrestrial channels are all on one EPG, so I guess it'll be more like their current TV range, where satellite channels start at 301, much handier than swapping between satellite and terrestrial like their previous combi box.

    Shame it has no "Connect" but then, it does have some apps, whatever they are? Having Netflix on it would be a plus, something really lacking on the Powerpoint Connect box. I wonder if connected online, will it have the same issue that the TV's have, where being on BBC can cause TV to restart.

    On initial setup satellite channels start at 201

    However easy to make a Fav list and place Sat channels in any order starting at number 1 if it suits

    EPG will either show Terestrial or Satellite, not both together (I dont find that an issue)

    Sadly No Netflix
    Lots of apps Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google, Internet browser, news, weather etc.

    Seems to work ok on BBC Freeview when launching apps, not tested astra 2 yet.

    Having the one channel list is very handy, also with DVBT2 its nice to pick up the Freeview HD channels.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    On initial set up it gave the option to install a preset channel list for Astra 2 (didn’t try it as I’m using Saorsat).

    If it's the same list that's downloadable from their website or that came with my WP-4K4017 TV, it's a mess, e.g. it still includes BBC Three and multiple versions of Channel4, its +1s, BBCs, ITVs etc. Best to setup the way you want and save to USB.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    byte wrote: »
    I wonder if connected online, will it have the same issue that the TV's have, where being on BBC can cause TV to restart.

    Recently updated my TV to the latest software version via internet, to v2.45.0.0 from v2.40.6.0, and that issue has been resolved. No longer crashing the TV if you select one of the BBC channels with TV connected to the internet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    On initial setup satellite channels start at 201

    Is this only the Saorsat channels or does it apply to all satellite channels including Astra etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    The Cush wrote: »
    Is this only the Saorsat channels or does it apply to all satellite channels including Astra etc.

    Connected Astra 2 - looks like only now and next on the epg

    Satellite channels starting on 301

    Did factory reset and connected Saorsat again coming in on 301 now.

    Just redone favourite list, satellite channels set to number 1 on favourite now


  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    It seems the new walker box then has the same menu as the TV's, its great to see such a box back on the market again.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Navarre wrote: »
    It seems the new walker box then has the same menu as the TV's,

    but missing Netflix, which would have been a nice addition.

    Also at a more realistic price point than the Saorview Connect box.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    The Cush wrote: »
    but missing Netflix, which would have been a nice addition.

    Also at a more realistic price point than the Saorview Connect box.

    It's a pity really, one of the apps is called VEWD app store, lots of apps but no Netflix

    Tried YouTube and it worked excellent


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    The Cush wrote: »
    Recently updated my TV to the latest software version via internet, to v2.45.0.0 from v2.40.6.0, and that issue has been resolved. No longer crashing the TV if you select one of the BBC channels with TV connected to the internet.
    Oh! This is good to know. Thanks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    It's a pity really, one of the apps is called VEWD app store, lots of apps but no Netflix

    Tried YouTube and it worked excellent

    VEWD is the rebranded opera TV platform

    It's all web based. Does it not have Netflix ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    STB. wrote: »
    VEWD is the rebranded opera TV platform

    It's all web based. Does it not have Netflix ?

    Apps for everything, loads of apps, apps for stuff I never thought existed

    Some great classic movie/tv apps, watching an old western now

    But no Netflix


  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Apps for everything, loads of apps, apps for stuff I never thought existed

    Some great classic movie/tv apps, watching an old western now

    But no Netflix

    I dont use Netflix but if the receiver can connect to the internet can a user not just search for Netflix thru Google
    and once the Netflix home page opens then log into their account that way. https://www.netflix.com/ie/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Navarre wrote: »
    I dont use Netflix but if the receiver can connect to the internet can a user not just search for Netflix thru Google
    and once the Netflix home page opens then log into their account that way. https://www.netflix.com/ie/

    No didn't work for me
    I've tried that with the Google search app, logged in, pressed play.
    But then told requirements are HTML5 and Silverlight.

    I don't think the box downloads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Little bit of playing around with the box today, now set up with:

    Freeview
    Astra 2 (now and next epg)
    Astra 1
    Saorsat

    Must be funny weather for terrestrial, bringing in freeview channels from South England

    All working perfect


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    @ Friendo

    The VEWD stuff. A Lot of the content is web based (HTML5-based platform). So you must have a VEWD account.

    At a guess paired devices enables the html/silverlight dependencies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    STB

    Not asked to sign in, I had to agree to terms and conditions before use

    The apps on VEWD are working fine


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    @FRIENDO what are the dimensions for this box and does it have a scart input?
    Nothing on the Walker site or Power City

    Hopefully more retailers will stock this, I only see it on Power City


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭jacob2


    no scart input on it got one today from powercity uploaded channel list from the walker tv to usb and downloaded to box i didnt know it had smart till now for 89 euro its not bad has red button for bbc.s its the same as the tv without a screen


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    @FRIENDO what are the dimensions for this box and does it have a scart input?
    Nothing on the Walker site or Power City

    Hopefully more retailers will stock this, I only see it on Power City

    Hi Macker, the box is smaller than the previous Walker Combo

    HEIGHT: 40mm
    WIDTH: 225mm
    DEPTH: 155mm

    No Scart connection, however Powercity mention a work around for a scart connection

    "**no scart connection
    av out can connect to scart connection
    to connect to a scart socket on a tv
    you will need
    1x code: 186848
    &
    1x code: dv0200"

    https://powercity.ie/product/186846
    (PC mention code: 186848, think the above does the same job, check in the shop)

    https://powercity.ie/product/DV0200


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    Wouldn't this do same thing...
    https://www.freetv.ie/3.5mm-to-scart/


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Ten Pin wrote: »
    Wouldn't this do same thing...
    https://www.freetv.ie/3.5mm-to-scart/
    Yeah, should do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    A problem:

    BBC satellite channels can freeze and cause box to reboot.
    Have noticed it only happening when box location is set to Ireland.

    Have tried other locations ie. UK and Germany and BBC seems to be working OK and not freezing the box.

    With UK location you only get a couple of apps, Germany would be the same as Ireland or more.

    The Walker pre programme list for satellite channels only works in the Ireland location.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭jacob2


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    A problem:

    BBC satellite channels can freeze and cause box to reboot.
    Have noticed it only happening when box location is set to Ireland.

    Have tried other locations ie. UK and Germany and BBC seems to be working OK and not freezing the box.

    With UK location you only get a couple of apps, Germany would be the same as Ireland or more.

    The Walker pre programme list for satellite channels only works in the Ireland location.
    using one now no problems with channels freezing uploaded channel list from walker tv by usb then downloaded to the walker box has all the channels the same as the tv in the other room


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    jacob2 wrote: »
    using one now no problems with channels freezing uploaded channel list from walker tv by usb then downloaded to the walker box has all the channels the same as the tv in the other room

    Have you got the box on location Ireland?

    I've done a number of factory resets and finding it freezes on BBC when set on location Ireland.
    Doesn't matter if I use the Walker supplied list or do manual scan.

    However if I set it up on another country location BBC seems to work, in doing this I loose the Saorview logo on the epg,

    Put it on UK, I'm getting Freeview logo instead.

    Will keep an eye on it, thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    A problem:

    BBC satellite channels can freeze and cause box to reboot.
    Have noticed it only happening when box location is set to Ireland.

    A known issue - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105597354#post105597354
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106485948#post106485948

    Fixed my TV recently with a software update - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107707606#post107707606


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  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    A problem:

    BBC satellite channels can freeze and cause box to reboot.
    Have noticed it only happening when box location is set to Ireland.

    Have tried other locations ie. UK and Germany and BBC seems to be working OK and not freezing the box.

    With UK location you only get a couple of apps, Germany would be the same as Ireland or more.

    The Walker pre programme list for satellite channels only works in the Ireland location.
    This sounds like the problem that was in the televisions that I alluded to earlier in the thread. The TV's have since got an update to fix that issue, so maybe the boxes will get a similar update since menu is apparently the same.

    It might be no harm to email Walker about the issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Thanks Guys,

    Yes will email Walker.

    Works fine with a different location UK or Germany (Germany has more apps, UK limited with apps)

    Overall I'm happy with the box, works perfect with Saorsat (Digital Aertel) and recording is working fine.
    Easy box to use


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Yes will email Walker.

    Works fine with a different location UK or Germany (Germany has more apps, UK limited with apps)

    Overall I'm happy with the box, works perfect with Saorsat (Digital Aertel) and recording is working fine.
    Easy box to use

    So no luck with the software update then?

    Just checked my TV and the software update that sorted the problem was created 11th Sept 2017 although there is nothing on their website to indicate there was an update available. I'm very surprised they have recently launched this box with that same issue having sorted the TV problem last year.


  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    The problem is with Vestal, The same thing happens to Nordmende and Toshiba TVs that have Saorview/Satellite/Smart functions. Once the TVs are connected to the internet and any of the BBC channels are selected the TV will freeze after a few seconds and will reboot.
    A software update will sort the problem and i am sure it will do the same for the Walker box.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    I'm not at the box at the moment, but I think the current software is 10th of July 2018

    I won't find it an issue setting up with another location and making a channel list.

    But for an everyday non tech person who set's up with Ireland and the preset Walker list, they will be disappointed with the BBC freezing.

    The preset Astra 2 list is ok too and upto date.

    I think they realised they had a problem as the left out any BBC HD channels on the preset list, however it still freezes on BBC SD.
    Even BBC World NEWS on Astra 1 froze after a while when on Ireland location.

    Freeview terrestrial BBC are working perfect

    Apart from this hiccup the box is very good, easy to use and reliable for recording, will set it up on Germany or UK now.


  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    I'm not at the box at the moment, but I think the current software is 10th of July 2018

    I won't find it an issue setting up with another location and making a channel list.

    But for an everyday non tech person who set's up with Ireland and the preset Walker list, they will be disappointed with the BBC freezing.

    The preset Astra 2 list is ok too and upto date.

    I think they realised they had a problem as the left out any BBC HD channels on the preset list, however it still freezes on BBC SD.
    Even BBC World NEWS on Astra 1 froze after a while when on Ireland location.

    Freeview terrestrial BBC are working perfect

    Apart from this hiccup the box is very good, easy to use and reliable for recording, will set it up on Germany or UK now.

    what number does the RTE's start at when a different country is chosen when you using Saorsat.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Navarre wrote: »
    what number does the RTE's start at when a different country is chosen when you using Saorsat.

    Can't say right now, but well in the hundreds, if using UK freeview has its own channels allocation numbers

    No particular set numbers for Saorsat, when setting up it tunes in Terrestrial first followed by satellite, the order I have Is Astra 2, Astra 1, Saorsat, but the sat stations start at 301 or a 601 possible 801, can't recall as I'm using a favourite list.

    Will confirm when I get to the box


  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    I would advise people who are using this box or any of the vestal made TV's that have saorview,satellite and smart functions to do a software upgrade and have the country selected as Ireland that way the Irish channels will start at number 1 up to 21 they can be rearranged from 1-10 and BBC1 starts at 301 straight after number 10.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Navarre wrote: »
    I would advise people who are using this box or any of the vestal made TV's that have saorview,satellite and smart functions to do a software upgrade and have the country selected as Ireland that way the Irish channels will start at number 1 up to 21 they can be rearranged from 1-10 and BBC1 starts at 301 straight after number 10.

    Not forgetting the radio channels which can be deselected from view within the menu.


  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Turlock


    Hi couple of quick questions on this that could really help me out as it seems it could be exactly what I'm looking for.

    From standby does the box come on fairly quick? I saw the powerpoint saorview box and it seemed to take about 2 minutes from standby to boot and get going which can be frustrating.

    How bad is the BBC issue? Is it a case that anytime you change to BBC it'll just hang the box or is it intermittent/fixable?

    Lastly, anyone know the main Walker website, can't find anything googling

    Cheers :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Turlock wrote: »
    How bad is the BBC issue? Is it a case that anytime you change to BBC it'll just hang the box or is it intermittent/fixable?

    Lastly, anyone know the main Walker website, can't find anything googling
    http://walker.ie/

    As posted in the other thread the BBC issue is only there when connected to the internet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Turlock


    Just to confirm, picked up that box today and am absolutely delighted with it

    Channel setup was a breeze (although note that as someone says it omits HD freesat channels)
    The channel listings are organised similar to a sky box so they group the most used channels up the top
    The UI is simple to use compared to the previous Ferguson Combo 250
    Remote has a wide angle use (or normal angle use, this is a big problem I had with my old box)
    Boot time from cold or standby is about 10 seconds which is great compared to some of the other boxes I saw

    Thanks a mill for the review and recommendation, as per another thread this was for my 80 year old neighbour who was always going to struggle with a more techie box. Over the moon to be able to give him something easy to use :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Navarre wrote: »
    what number does the RTE's start at when a different country is chosen when you using Saorsat.

    Box now working perfect
    Location Ireland
    Internet NOT CONNECTED

    The box is now advertised as Saorsat Approved!!

    Saorsat TV channels start at No. 1 - 20
    Saorsat Radio start at No. 200 - 209

    Preset list TV channels BBC One starts at No. 21 - 157

    Saorsat Channels now have their own epg numbers like Saorview would on the box.

    I have no terrestrial connected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,031 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Turlock wrote:
    it omits HD freesat channels

    @FRIENDO
    What's the story there?
    Are FTA HD channels not available on this box or maybe are with some extra effort?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    @FRIENDO
    What's the story there?
    Are FTA HD channels not available on this box or maybe are with some extra effort?

    HD channels are working perfect
    Astra 2, Astra 1, Saorsat, Freeview all good.

    The original Walker preset channel list was missing BBC and UTV HD channels
    But came with Channel 4 HD and 5 HD

    I've tweaked the list now to my own liking, by manual tuning and adding a few extra channels and HD channels etc.

    Can Put channels in a favourite list in any order you wish then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Saorsat TV channels start at No. 1 - 20
    Saorsat Radio start at No. 200 - 209

    Preset list TV channels BBC One starts at No. 21 - 157.

    Is it the Freeview terrestrial channels or the FTA satellite channels that start at 21?

    On the Walker TVs the satellite channels start at 301 and cannot be moved lower down the epg, this appears to be different for this box. If the number of satellite channels stored goes beyond 199, do they overspill into the 200s or into the 300s?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    The Cush wrote: »
    Is it the Freeview terrestrial channels or the FTA satellite channels that start at 21?

    On the Walker TVs the satellite channels start at 301 and cannot be moved lower down the epg, this appears to be different for this box. If the number of satellite channels stored goes beyond 199, do they overspill into the 200s or into the 300s?

    I only have satellite connected now

    So if I download my satellite channels (Astra 2 selection of channels)
    The Astra 2 channels start at No. 1

    I then do a scan on the Saorsat (Kasat 9) satellite

    Saorsat TV channels start at No. 1 - 20

    Astra 2 channels then move to No. 21

    Saorsat Radio channels start at No. 200

    Extra channels scaned on Astra 2 are coming in after the RTE radio stations at 210 onwards

    You can delete Saorsat blank channels and move the astra list up starting at No. 8 for example, but a little time consuming as you can only move 10 stations at a time.

    Much easier and quicker to create a Fav list in any number order (One button selects all, then just remove the Saorsat blanks, add selection to Fav) only takes a few moments.

    If I connected the Terrestrial aerial, Terrestrial channels would go into No. 1 onwards and Sat channels similar to the TV setup.

    For the purpouse of BBC, I have the Internet Disconnected, however no problem connecting/disconnecting the internet, Im watching the Youtube Boxing this evening, great picture quality live stream


  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Turlock


    @FRIENDO
    What's the story there?
    Are FTA HD channels not available on this box or maybe are with some extra effort?

    Sorry to claridy, they're not on the default channel list that comes with the box but you can add them in.
    I didn't as it's an 80 year old getting the box and hoping that sticking to the "out of the box" channel list saves channels going missing later therefore increasing reliability meaning I don't have to get involved :D

    Seriously impressed with this yoke, I did loads of digging and they all just seemed messy to set up and organise channels etc. The Walker box is just so nice and comfortable to use.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Turlock wrote: »
    Sorry to claridy, they're not on the default channel list that comes with the box but you can add them in.
    I didn't as it's an 80 year old getting the box and hoping that sticking to the "out of the box" channel list saves channels going missing later therefore increasing reliability meaning I don't have to get involved
    If this is the same as the TVs the stored satellite channels can be saved to USB drive in Satcodx format. The problem with the default channel list is that channel frequencies will change over time and the default list will no longer be up to date.

    I keep a USB drive permanently attached and any changes are updated to the drive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    The Cush wrote: »
    If this is the same as the TVs the stored satellite channels can be saved to USB drive in Satcodx format. The problem with the default channel list is that channel frequencies will change over time and the default list will no longer be up to date.

    I keep a USB drive permanently attached and any changes are updated to the drive.

    Ye it has the Satcodx, I ammended the Walker list, reorganising and adding channels and saved to the USB, works well


  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    The Cush wrote: »

    I keep a USB drive permanently attached and any changes are updated to the drive.

    Same as that, the biggest seller in the shop i work for is Walker and at the moment the walker wps 3219sm is the most popular TV sold and especially for the elderly people and non techies. I have the Irish channels 1-10 and straight after that UK channels start at 301 upwards. so simple to use, channel up and down and volume up and down power on power off button. I also disable the sources on the TV so it leaves only 5 buttons for people to use.


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