How many people have had pneumonia in the past 6 months that you know?

Deagol · 24-05-2020 10:35pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Except you didn't have it.

Source for this? Or are you just being dogmatic?

Just as people who think this scenario is plausible cannot yet prove it - so you also cannot disprove it.

We're all aware that current best expert opinions are against the theory / scenario proposed but in stressful situations where things are rapidly changing; group think becomes a huge problem. Many people and that includes scientists and medical experts can make errors due to peer pressure not to rock the boat. Look at the situation around stomach ulcers, for over 20 years two medical experts tried and failed to convince the rest of the medical world that they were caused by bacteria and could be treated with antibiotics - 20 years even when their science was extremely convincing. http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_peptic_ulcer_disease_and_Helicobacter_pylori

Mass hysteria can also make people unlikely to dispute the group conclusions even when they plainly can see something is not right - there are many studies that prove this point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality

So, can you just come into the discussion with an open mind and contribute something positive, even if you disagree with the premise? :cool:

normanoffside · 24-05-2020 10:46pm

Anybody thinking they might have had Covid-19 could get an antibody test from the Tropical Medical Bureau (€80)

https://www.tmb.ie/coronavirus-antibody-test

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2020 11:31pm

bitburger wrote: »

So I flew dublin to amsterdam the week before christmas coming back a day or 2 before christmas eve.

on both legs of our flight, there was at least 1 asian family sitting close enough to us all wearing surgical masks.

I remember at the time thinking "hah look at these fools in their masks"

Of course ever since then it has kept me thinking has it been around longer than what the data we have suggests.

Asian people have been wearing masks for years. You see them all the time in Dublin.

It's not an indicator of anything other than they they are probably used to smog levels that make people really sick in whatever city they are coming from and possibly assume its going to be the same in Europe or are being cautious anyway.

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2020 11:33pm

Is there any indication whatsoever that there was even a noticeable rise in Flu deaths over the winter?

jlm29 · 24-05-2020 11:50pm

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

I was at the GP on Friday and mentioned this mystery illness that I had 2nd week of February. She said it was most likely Covid. She also said that in hindsight she had probably patients in January.

For me, whatever that illness was, I got over it in 10 days. It was mainly absolutely fine, but about 3 days of breathing difficulties which had me on the verge of calling for help. That part was pretty scary. TBH it only occurred to me a few weeks afterwards what it may have been.

I'm 34 and in very good health.

My brother was like this a few weeks ago. GP was certain it was covid. He’s super fit, very active, very well, but could barely walk up the stairs with shortness of breath. He was swabbed and it was negative.
A staggering amount of people are convinced they had covid already. But there was no major spikes in illness among healthcare workers, or in admissions to icu, so it would seem more likely to me that it’s a seasonal flu

challengemaster · 24-05-2020 11:53pm

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

France had first case December

Nope, they had earlier cases in France. Several identified in mid-November based on chest xray COVID-specific abnormalities. They're now looking even further back in October for earlier cases.

We really won't know until reliable and accurate antibody testing is rolled out everywhere, but anywhere that has been tested already - the level of antibody positive % among the population doesn't match with the confirmed cases anywhere so far it's been tested. Hospital and ICU numbers are fine (and I do believe they're not being fabricated in any way), but they're reflective of people testing positive for COVID-19 by PCR with an active infection while in that setting. The numbers indicate much larger percentages of the population have at some stage had COVID.

marilynrr · 25-05-2020 1:04am

whatdoicare wrote: »

My young ones school was decimated by this cough that all the kids got around February. Like I'm talking 16 or 17 kids from each class all out for weeks at a time and some ending up in hospital.

My own child caught it. It was the weirdest scariest cough I have ever seen. She went to bed grand, woke up at 4am and puked her guts up, all phlegm, then this ****ing cough started, like she was drowning in phlegm. Her temperature was bonkers too, nothing brought it down but she was clinging to me for warmth. Straight into the docs next morning, the whole waiting room is full of people coughing their lungs up. Like every single person! Doctor tells me its croup! I remember thinking shes seven, this ain't croup, I dont know what this is. I'd say the doctor hadnt a ****ing clue either. He was just getting patients in all day every day with the same cough and hoping the antibiotics would go the trick.

It took a good three weeks and bags of steroids and inhalers to get her through it. Most of her class had it and were all still choking well into March.

My nieces and nephews all had it too, same thing, puking up phlegm and mad temperature. Niece and nephew in another county had it and the doctor told my sister it was some random thing like scarlet fever!

I would 100% agree this has been doing the rounds since Christmas and we just didnt know it.

There's no way that that was covid-19.
It doesn't fit in in any way with the worldwide experience of how covid-19 has been affecting kids!!

wakka12 · 25-05-2020 1:07am

Given that antibody tests in the U.K. , Spain , Sweden and Netherlands all showed less than 5% of the population have had covid, its likely Irelands rate is even lower. And considering the number of people we have confirmed as having it in March and April makes it extremely unlikely there was any large widespread numbers of people with covid before late February

wakka12 · 25-05-2020 1:09am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is there any indication whatsoever that there was even a noticeable rise in Flu deaths over the winter?

No, it was a particularly mild flu season. Same with most of Europe

marilynrr · 25-05-2020 1:18am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is there any indication whatsoever that there was even a noticeable rise in Flu deaths over the winter?

There wasn't. An Italian report said that the flu season being so mild meant that there was an increased pool of vulnerable people when covid-19 hit.

bitburger · 25-05-2020 1:19am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Asian people have been wearing masks for years. You see them all the time in Dublin.

It's not an indicator of anything other than they they are probably used to smog levels that make people really sick in whatever city they are coming from and possibly assume its going to be the same in Europe or are being cautious anyway.

Ah never actually considered that, although they did wear them for the duration of the entire flight,even the kids. And around that time i believe the chinese did know about the strange sars like pneumonia going around wuhan so to me it would be plausible that they were aware of it before we we did and were being cautious.

Of course all of this is pure speculation on my part but it did always leave a "hmm what if" thought embedded in my mind. I have heard in China there is much more awareness of SARS like illnesses that too would have led to increased cautions if the virus had of been known about earlier in china. but as i say pure speculation i just found it very unusual to see in this part of the world. (well not anymore now as more people are wearing them including myself)

marilynrr · 25-05-2020 1:25am

bitburger wrote: »

Ah never actually considered that, although they did wear them for the duration of the entire flight,even the kids. And around that time i believe the chinese did know about the strange sars like pneumonia going around wuhan so to me it would be plausible that they were aware of it before we we did and were being cautious.

Of course all of this is pure speculation on my part but it did always leave a "hmm what if" thought embedded in my mind. I have heard in China there is much more awareness of SARS like illnesses that too would have led to increased cautions if the virus had of been known about earlier in china. but as i say pure speculation i just found it very unusual to see in this part of the world. (well not anymore now as more people are wearing them including myself)

As the other poster said it's not uncommon to see Asians do this. I first remember seeing Asians wearing masks here during SARS and occasionally ever since...and I don't live in Dublin.

I would imagine that if they thought there was a SARS like illness going around then they wouldn't have actually travelled in the first place!!

Mike3287 · 25-05-2020 1:35am

wakka12 wrote: »

Given that antibody tests in the U.K. , Spain , Sweden and Netherlands all showed less than 5% of the population have had covid, its likely Irelands rate is even lower. And considering the number of people we have confirmed as having it in March and April makes it extremely unlikely there was any large widespread numbers of people with covid before late February

Antibody tests we are using are looking flawed

Not a catch all

Many healthy individuals don't need antibodies to beat off infection

Very good research coming out now that T Cells ( one of our first lines of immune defence ) is beating C19 ass on arrival in alot of individuals, thus no C19 antibodies will be found in that test

Its one of the hypothesis of why kids are doing well, T cells remember previous coronaviruses

NSAman · 25-05-2020 2:22am

owlbethere wrote: »

Any body posting here get the flu vaccine and still became sick?

Yes and had pneumonia shot as well.

Not that it means anything...
Until antibody tests are reliable we will never know

J Mysterio · 25-05-2020 2:53am

Ny Dad was hospitalized with Pneumonia in early January, and was very sick, requiring HDU trreatment. Both myself and my mother fell ill in the following week. We are wondering.

I think the only way we will known is when/if an antibody test becomes available

LLMMLL · 25-05-2020 5:16am

Deagol wrote: »

Source for this? Or are you just being dogmatic?

Just as people who think this scenario is plausible cannot yet prove it - so you also cannot disprove it.

We're all aware that current best expert opinions are against the theory / scenario proposed but in stressful situations where things are rapidly changing; group think becomes a huge problem. Many people and that includes scientists and medical experts can make errors due to peer pressure not to rock the boat. Look at the situation around stomach ulcers, for over 20 years two medical experts tried and failed to convince the rest of the medical world that they were caused by bacteria and could be treated with antibiotics - 20 years even when their science was extremely convincing. http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_peptic_ulcer_disease_and_Helicobacter_pylori

Mass hysteria can also make people unlikely to dispute the group conclusions even when they plainly can see something is not right - there are many studies that prove this point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality

So, can you just come into the discussion with an open mind and contribute something positive, even if you disagree with the premise? :cool:

There are lots of things that can't be disproven but are extremely unlikely.

There are a ridiculous number of people claiming they've had covid pre March because of symptoms.

Yet in March when people definitely had a chance of getting covid the vast vast majority of people with symptoms and tested had negative tests.

It's not dogmatic to poiNt out how ridiculous the people who think they had it in January are. Its not groupthink. You are not a brave lone voice combatting orthodox opinion.

And linking to completely off topic subjects does nothing to prove your point.

ixoy · 25-05-2020 9:24am

In a way, I'm glad that the OH caught whatever it was going around in February rather than it going around now, because we'd have ended up much more worried assuming it was Covid-19 rather than whatever it most likely was.

Wibbs · 25-05-2020 10:15am

ixoy wrote: »

In a way, I'm glad that the OH caught whatever it was going around in February rather than it going around now, because we'd have ended up much more worried assuming it was Covid-19 rather than whatever it most likely was.

I'd echo this. If I had that dose now I'd be pretty sure/concerned it was covid.

Deagol · 25-05-2020 1:02pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

There are lots of things that can't be disproven but are extremely unlikely.

There are a ridiculous number of people claiming they've had covid pre March because of symptoms.

Yet in March when people definitely had a chance of getting covid the vast vast majority of people with symptoms and tested had negative tests.

It's not dogmatic to poiNt out how ridiculous the people who think they had it in January are. Its not groupthink. You are not a brave lone voice combatting orthodox opinion.

And linking to completely off topic subjects does nothing to prove your point.

So your entire contribution to the conversation is to tell us we're all idiots and you're the smart one? You haven't listed any sources for anything you've said nor have you given any reasonably constructed arguments.
So I think I'll just ignore your 'contributions' - thanks for visiting though! Please come again!!

JoeExotic81 · 25-05-2020 1:12pm

I was travelling cross Atlantic in November, went through 3 airports. The week I got home I developed the worst flu/chest infection ever. A fever like I never had before. Was out of work unpaid for a week (had used up my sick leave, so it was bad enough that I went without pay that week).

Reading reports of the Wuhan games in late October having around 150 nations present, you really would wonder.

mohawk · 25-05-2020 1:31pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is there any indication whatsoever that there was even a noticeable rise in Flu deaths over the winter?

Agreed
That would be interesting to review those numbers. It would provide evidence that Covid19 is in Ireland earlier then thought.
At moment the hypothesis that it was in Ireland in November/December only has anecdotal evidence. What were hospital/ICU admissions like compared to other years. Were nursing homes flu deaths up?
It is not impossible that there was another virus floating around last winter that was making people really ill. I know so many that had the worst chest infections/flu like symptoms they had ever experienced.
My own feeling is that our hospital system is usually at capacity the HSE would of become overwhelmed. The idea the virus may have mutated to cause more severe illness is an interesting one.

No doubt there will be scientists who will look into all possibilities and hopefully we will get an answer.

Pablo Escobar · 25-05-2020 1:54pm

jlm29 wrote: »

My brother was like this a few weeks ago. GP was certain it was covid. He’s super fit, very active, very well, but could barely walk up the stairs with shortness of breath. He was swabbed and it was negative.
A staggering amount of people are convinced they had covid already. But there was no major spikes in illness among healthcare workers, or in admissions to icu, so it would seem more likely to me that it’s a seasonal flu

Again, no idea what it was as I didn't go for help. It's my GP's opinion that it's likely that's what it was. My case also sounds less sever than the one you're describing. I didn't feel all that sick, more congested, very tired at the beginning and it was a struggle to breath for a few days in the middle. I've never experienced something like that. I didn't really know what it was at the time, having never had pneumonia or bronchitis, but it fits the bill with those 2.

I also agree with the other post on the figures. We're bound to have less prevalence than, for example, France. But it is important that we make an attempt, as soon as is possible, to gauge what our number of infections has actually been.

owlbethere · 25-05-2020 4:12pm

I was talking to someone who would be considered a close contact for me, that's if we were to get sick and the authorities do contact tracing. Anyways, she's a close contact. About twice a week.

She said her aunty had a cold when they met up over Christmas. They met in the pub on St Stephens night. The next few more days, and the authie was floored with a flu. The aunty has an underlining condition and she gets the flu injection every year because of that. She was sick with the flu and had a bad chest. Eventually she went to her GP and the next bit got me altogether. The GP had the oxygen finger reading machine and used that to test the oxygen in the blood but the doctor got a low reading and thought it was broken. The GP tested her own finger but it wasn't broken.

The family are now looking back at that and they think it was this covid19. The person I spoke to is a lovely person and she wouldn't lie and she has no reason to lie and she's not the attention seeking type of person so I do believe her.

She said the family all came down with coughs within the following week or two that lasted a few weeks.

She being a close contact, I'm baffled how I didn't pick up anything. I was getting nose bleeds since January but I was putting that down too an accident. I also get a slight heaviness in my chest but I put that down to rushing meals and stress. I also developed some other weird stuff these past few months. Stomach issues like Gerd or something. I never got around to attending my GP yet but now I'm wondering if I got a silent covid19 infection. It was the first year I never came down with a cold or sinus infection in the winter and I always suffer with them. Just not this year.

Albert12 · 25-05-2020 4:18pm

Maybe not lies but it wasnt Corona. The hospital and ICU numbers are there for everyone to see. Get a grip

CrabRevolution · 25-05-2020 4:24pm

During the height of the virus in Ireland, only a small % of symptomatic patients sick enough to see a doctor and be tested, were positive for Covid-19. Yet apparently 100% of people with flu like symptoms in the last few months can be retrospectively diagnosed with Covid-19.....

It doesn't really stack up.

wakka12 · 25-05-2020 4:35pm

Mike3287 wrote: »

Antibody tests we are using are looking flawed

Not a catch all

Many healthy individuals don't need antibodies to beat off infection

Very good research coming out now that T Cells ( one of our first lines of immune defence ) is beating C19 ass on arrival in alot of individuals, thus no C19 antibodies will be found in that test

Its one of the hypothesis of why kids are doing well, T cells remember previous coronaviruses

That's interesting could you post the link to the research ?

challengemaster · 25-05-2020 5:49pm

Albert12 wrote: »

Maybe not lies but it wasnt Corona. The hospital and ICU numbers are there for everyone to see. Get a grip

You seem to be missing the idea that someone couldn't get a test for coronavirus before a February because the test didn't exist, and it only works on active infections. Before then it very likely would have been called viral pneumonia.

The numbers we have at present are confirmed active infections by PCR, be they hospital, ICU or community numbers.

There's plenty of evidence out there that there's an asymptomatic percentage of the population who get covid. There's also evidence that this has been in France and other countries as far back as mid-November.

Assuming everyone who had flu-like symptoms actually had covid is stupid. But, equally so is dismissing that any of them had it based on numbers which don't inform that decision at all.

US2 · 25-05-2020 7:38pm

challengemaster wrote: »

You seem to be missing the idea that someone couldn't get a test for coronavirus before a February because the test didn't exist, and it only works on active infections. Before then it very likely would have been called viral pneumonia.

The numbers we have at present are confirmed active infections by PCR, be they hospital, ICU or community numbers.

There's plenty of evidence out there that there's an asymptomatic percentage of the population who get covid. There's also evidence that this has been in France and other countries as far back as mid-November.

Assuming everyone who had flu-like symptoms actually had covid is stupid. But, equally so is dismissing that any of them had it based on numbers which don't inform that decision at all.

No evidence at all that it's been in France since mid November. 28th of December I believe!

If It was in circulation here for that long, even without tests we would have seen a huge spike in hospital admissions, ICU admissions, deaths, deaths in nursing homes ect due to viral pneumonia. You think the virus just decided to start hospitalising people in mid march ?

ednwireland · 25-05-2020 7:41pm

US2 wrote: »

No evidence at all that it's been in France since mid November. 28th of December I believe!

If It was in circulation here for that long, even without tests we would have seen a huge spike in hospital admissions, ICU admissions, deaths, deaths in nursing homes ect due to viral pneumonia. You think the virus just decided to start hospitalising people in mid march ?

different strain ? just sayin

challengemaster · 25-05-2020 7:41pm

US2 wrote: »

No evidence at all that it's been in France since mid November. 28th of December I believe!

You should really do any small bit of research before posting.

http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200520-scans-show-french-patients-were-sick-with-covid-19-in-mid-november-doctors-say-colmar-haut-rhin

Doctors in the French Haut-Rhin region, hit hard by Covid-19, say they’ve detected several cases dating back to 16 November 2019 – long before the disease is believed to have surfaced in France, and before it was even announced in China.

Guy:Incognito · 25-05-2020 7:45pm

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

I was travelling cross Atlantic in November, went through 3 airports. The week I got home I developed the worst flu/chest infection ever. A fever like I never had before. Was out of work unpaid for a week (had used up my sick leave, so it was bad enough that I went without pay that week).

Reading reports of the Wuhan games in late October having around 150 nations present, you really would wonder.

Probably the most likely place to catch anything is in a pressurised tube with a couple of hundred other people.

Anything midly contagious on a plane and pretty much everyone else on the plane is exposed to it.

I got the flu once. I rarely get sick but this time I was in bed for a couple of days with joint pain , sweat buckets and wishing for death. After that I dont describe my colds as the flu.

I thought I had it again a couple of years ago but it turned out to be a viral infection the hospital never got to the bottom of. After a week in isolation in a ward they could only give me a list of what it wasnt after sending my samples to wherever tests here and also in the UK. When I went in they put me on an ECG and called the cardio team because it was telling them I was having a heart attack in A&E. Whatever it was affected the muscles around all my organs. I was in bed for 2 days with it, thinking it was flu before I started pissing blood and knew it was something else.

Anyway,that was just my side story

iamwhoiam · 25-05-2020 7:50pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Probably the most likely place to catch anything is in a pressurised tube with a couple of hundred other people.

Anything midly contagious on a plane and pretty much everyone else on the plane is exposed to it.

I saw a documentary lately about getting infections on flights . They did swabs on everything from the entry into the airport and on planes . They found all sorts of viruses etc on handrails , door handles , boxes at security , waiting area seat arm rests , banisters on steps going into the planes , buckles , arm rests and tables
Before you ever take off you are probably infected

Ms2011 · 25-05-2020 8:15pm

challengemaster wrote: »

You should really do any small bit of research before posting.

And France didn't lockdown until the same time as us so presumably the virus had a slow burn before getting out of control in Feb/March, no reason the same couldn't have happened here.

LLMMLL · 25-05-2020 8:15pm

Deagol wrote: »

So your entire contribution to the conversation is to tell us we're all idiots and you're the smart one? You haven't listed any sources for anything you've said nor have you given any reasonably constructed arguments.
So I think I'll just ignore your 'contributions' - thanks for visiting though! Please come again!!

I have to list sources for the things that everyone already knows. Fine. Here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-republic-reports-31-further-deaths-as-cases-pass-10-000-1.4227713

The peak of new cases being diagnosed was 15th April. This article is from the 13th and states 72000 tests have been done and 10000 cases have been confirmed. So that makes 14% of the tests done being confirmed cases.

So at the very peak of the virus, the vast vast majority of people with symptoms did not have coronavirus but in your opinion all the anecdotal reports of flu symptoms during flu season months before the peak of the virus were coronavirus cases.

Right.......

marilynrr · 25-05-2020 8:24pm

mohawk wrote: »

Agreed
That would be interesting to review those numbers. It would provide evidence that Covid19 is in Ireland earlier then thought.
At moment the hypothesis that it was in Ireland in November/December only has anecdotal evidence. What were hospital/ICU admissions like compared to other years. Were nursing homes flu deaths up?
It is not impossible that there was another virus floating around last winter that was making people really ill. I know so many that had the worst chest infections/flu like symptoms they had ever experienced.
My own feeling is that our hospital system is usually at capacity the HSE would of become overwhelmed. The idea the virus may have mutated to cause more severe illness is an interesting one.

No doubt there will be scientists who will look into all possibilities and hopefully we will get an answer.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/italy-s-mild-flu-season-may-solve-mystery-of-coronavirus-deaths

The last flu season, marked by unusually warm weather, killed fewer older Italians than average, according to a report by the Italian Ministry of Health.

The reports at the moment are saying that the flu season was milder than other years. People seem to be ignoring that and are only looking for 'evidence' to prove what they believe!!

LLMMLL · 25-05-2020 8:25pm

challengemaster wrote: »

You seem to be missing the idea that someone couldn't get a test for coronavirus before a February because the test didn't exist, and it only works on active infections. Before then it very likely would have been called viral pneumonia.

The numbers we have at present are confirmed active infections by PCR, be they hospital, ICU or community numbers.

There's plenty of evidence out there that there's an asymptomatic percentage of the population who get covid. There's also evidence that this has been in France and other countries as far back as mid-November.

Assuming everyone who had flu-like symptoms actually had covid is stupid. But, equally so is dismissing that any of them had it based on numbers which don't inform that decision at all.

Do you believe that if everyone with symptoms got tested in December to February we would see different percentage of negatives to what we saw at the peak?

tromtipp · 25-05-2020 9:24pm

US2 wrote: »

No evidence at all that it's been in France since mid November. 28th of December I believe!

If It was in circulation here for that long, even without tests we would have seen a huge spike in hospital admissions, ICU admissions, deaths, deaths in nursing homes ect due to viral pneumonia. You think the virus just decided to start hospitalising people in mid march ?

University Hospital Limerick was massively overcrowded in the first couple of months of this year because of a spike in respiratory infections (I know two people sent in with suspected pneumonia, both discharged without being admitted to wards). Despite that spike in numbers, the number of confirmed influenza cases was lower than average.

So what did all those people have?

Mike3287 · 25-05-2020 10:10pm

wakka12 wrote: »

That's interesting could you post the link to the research ?

https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674%2820%2930610-3

challengemaster · 25-05-2020 10:24pm

Mike3287 wrote: »

https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674%2820%2930610-3

Ah so you've actually just made all of this shít up without understanding a single thing you read.

Mike3287 wrote: »

Antibody tests we are using are looking flawed

Not a catch all

Many healthy individuals don't need antibodies to beat off infection

Very good research coming out now that T Cells ( one of our first lines of immune defence ) is beating C19 ass on arrival in alot of individuals, thus no C19 antibodies will be found in that test

Its one of the hypothesis of why kids are doing well, T cells remember previous coronaviruses

To actually quote directly from the paper

Thus, antibody, CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 were generally well correlated.

In fact, the authors investigated the fact that CD4+ T-cell response is what's driving the amount of antibody being produced.

What they didn't say was:
Anything about antibody tests being flawed
Not needing antibodies to beat an infection
Anything about not finding C19 antibodies
Anything about "children doing well"
or anything else you made up in your post. Like holy fúck it couldn't have been a worse interpretation.

edit: Also to make it worse, T cells are the adaptive immune system, not the innate. The innate is the first lines of defense, adaptive is second. They're literally the definition of a late immune response, which you again wrongly termed as "one of our first lines of immune defense".

Mike3287 · 25-05-2020 11:46pm

challengemaster wrote: »

Ah so you've actually just made all of this shít up without understanding a single thing you read.

To actually quote directly from the paper

In fact, the authors investigated the fact that CD4+ T-cell response is what's driving the amount of antibody being produced.

What they didn't say was:
Anything about antibody tests being flawed
Not needing antibodies to beat an infection
Anything about not finding C19 antibodies
Anything about "children doing well"
or anything else you made up in your post. Like holy fúck it couldn't have been a worse interpretation.

edit: Also to make it worse, T cells are the adaptive immune system, not the innate. The innate is the first lines of defense, adaptive is second. They're literally the definition of a late immune response, which you again wrongly termed as "one of our first lines of immune defense".

That's your interpretation ;-)

The scientists are careful to quantify their conclusions in that paper, give me a bit of rope here

The researchers in that paper are suggesting that the immune response in the uninfected blood samples could be from previous coronavirus infections, t cell immune defence

Its a theory

As in they had a common cold infection previously

We know coronavirus common cold is very common

Its a theory that explains alot

Example the studies done on the diamond princess, were one partner got ill and the other didn't, even though they lived in tiny rooms for a month and didn't get infected.

CrabRevolution · 26-05-2020 12:03am

tromtipp wrote: »

University Hospital Limerick was massively overcrowded in the first couple of months of this year because of a spike in respiratory infections (I know two people sent in with suspected pneumonia, both discharged without being admitted to wards). Despite that spike in numbers, the number of confirmed influenza cases was lower than average.

So what did all those people have?

If UHL being overcrowded means Covid-19 was rampant, then we've had Covid-19 for several years at this stage.

Guy:Incognito · 26-05-2020 12:07am

tromtipp wrote: »

So what did all those people have?

Unless the death figures were up an amount outside normal parameters for the winter, how can it have been Convid-19?

With everyone in and out of Nursing homes ( me included as I do maintenance in one , generally in there every 2 weeks or so) unrestricted, how was there not a massive increase in deaths?Or even a noteworthy increase?

CrabRevolution · 26-05-2020 12:14am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Unless the death figures were up an amount outside normal parameters for the winter, how can it have been Convid-19?

With everyone in and out of Nursing homes ( me included as I do maintenance in one , generally in there every 2 weeks or so) unrestricted, how was there not a massive increase in deaths?Or even a noteworthy increase?

There are more and more convoluted qualifiers being added to this "Early Covid-19" theory. It was apparently a widespread, yet not very infectious slow burner of a disease which made people sicker than they'd ever felt and filled hospitals with mystery respiratory illness, yet seems to have escaped the notice of health professionals and not caused any additional deaths above the normal.

Healio · 26-05-2020 12:26am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Unless the death figures were up an amount outside normal parameters for the winter, how can it have been Convid-19?

With everyone in and out of Nursing homes ( me included as I do maintenance in one , generally in there every 2 weeks or so) unrestricted, how was there not a massive increase in deaths?Or even a noteworthy increase?

Is your general point here that it wasnt covid because people didnt die?

Flickerfusion · 26-05-2020 12:47am

Well, I’ve an antibody test on its way to me, so I will post when I get results.

Guy:Incognito · 26-05-2020 12:49am

Healio wrote: »

Is your general point here that it wasnt covid because people didnt die?

If it was here, why , in your opinion did it not rampage through the nursing homes?

wakka12 · 26-05-2020 1:00am

Mike3287 wrote: »

That's your interpretation ;-)

The scientists are careful to quantify their conclusions in that paper, give me a bit of rope here

The researchers in that paper are suggesting that the immune response in the uninfected blood samples could be from previous coronavirus infections, t cell immune defence

Its a theory

As in they had a common cold infection previously

We know coronavirus common cold is very common

Its a theory that explains alot

Example the studies done on the diamond princess, were one partner got ill and the other didn't, even though they lived in tiny rooms for a month and didn't get infected.

Well was there an antibody test done on the passengers? The fact they apparently didn't fall ill doesn't really prove anything seeing as half of people who get it are asymptomatic

J Mysterio · 26-05-2020 1:12am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Well, I’ve an antibody test on its way to me, so I will post when I get results.

How did you arrange this? I didn't know there was such a thing?!?

Healio · 26-05-2020 1:38am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If it was here, why , in your opinion did it not rampage through the nursing homes?

Going by the theories in the thread so far; perhaps it slowly made its way through the healhier portion of the population, before it did indeed rampage through the nursing homes in Mar/Apr.

jimbobaloobob · 26-05-2020 1:42am

Healio wrote: »

Going by the theories in the thread so far; perhaps it slowly made its way through the healhier portion of the population, before it did indeed rampage through the nursing homes in Mar/Apr.

That wouldn’t explain why some nursing homes tested have had no cases of it would it? Surely if it was here it would be impossible for it not to reside in all dwellings?

How many people have had pneumonia in the past 6 months that you know?

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