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Journalism and cycling

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    #182
    Peterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    Sure it's a good idea - it's just worth considering that some of the increased revenue won't materialise.
    Obviously nz and aus won't have this problem - though they could still get petrol stretching and diesel laundering.

    Ahh but unlike the poor unfortunates who must balance the bukes in this one financial year I don't have to worry about increased revenue in 2016/7.

    Charging by use by putting all the costs onto the fuel encourages price conscious people to consider other forms of transport. Over time some discover that cycling works for them, especially in their pocket.
    Public transport becomes more attractive, it gets more passengers and thus more money and becomes less dependent on government subsidy.
    Introducing a rego like the Aussies have kills the current cartel that insurance companies run. It's ridiculous that something that is a legal requirement, car insurance in this case, is provided by private companies and not by the people who made it a legal requirement - the government.

    sorry now - getting well off the point here..


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    #183
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    Peterx wrote: »
    Charging by use by putting all the costs onto the fuel encourages price conscious people to consider...
    Sure there's good in the idea. I think it would just take some number-crunching to see if it will work out vs. revenue loses from it not being paid in the state.
    Peterx wrote: »
    It's ridiculous that something that is a legal requirement... is provided by private companies and not by the people who made it a legal requirement - the government.
    ^^government policy on everything, innit?


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    #184
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    boardbeer wrote: »
    Repeal free speech rights for: cyclists, joggers, 5-a-side soccer players.

    What about when only nine players show up so you've a fly goalie?


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    #185
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    a difficulty with this is that if fuel costs significantly more than in northern Ireland, a lot of people will just buy it there.
    You'll also get raises in smuggling laundering and petrol-stretching


    i think we should have traffic cameras that do this automatically anyway. I'd love to see sensorss at every traffic light and frequently along roads that check all vehicles against a database of tax, insurance, nct, non-standard plates - as well as checking for braking red lights and speeding. They could alert gardai about unreadable plates.
    It's a mistake to think motor-tax evaders are only, or even mostly, boy racers. Sweeping statements are very tempting but in reality you get a wide range of folks not paying.

    Whoever the evaders are, they couldn't evade if the insurance and tax were part of the petrol.
    RandomAccess wrote: »
    The "they're just as bad as us!" argument..
    No thanks

    Well, yeah. Good point.

    Someone mentioned that people could go to the North to buy fuel, and this is true. However, if the Northerners saw that we didn't have to pay insurance and tax (and to pay for all the admin of insurance companies and gardaí and civil servants processing and checking etc), they might quite easily say "Oho, good idea" and do the same.


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    #186
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I think you are dreaming if you could see a unionist party agreeing to streamline anything that would bring Northern Ireland in line with Ireland.

    And I can see their point in that, insane though it is; and of course when their civil service payments aren't coming out of their own taxes, they have less incentive to look for efficiencies in police and admin work.


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    #187
    RandomAccess
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    Singapore and Malaysia share a border.

    There are fines discouraging fuel tourism

    http://www.singapore-the-fine-city.com/2009/05/your-fuel-tanks-is-not-three-quarter.html?m=1

    We'll have a 20 foot high wall surrounding the north anyway paid for by Brussels and London soon enough.


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    #188
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,953 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    endagibson wrote: »
    I disagree. I tax my car and it spends approximately 5 out of 7 days in my private driveway every week.

    If I wanted to officially take it off the road, I'd have to do it at least a month in advance, coinciding with the date that my present tax disc expires as I don't think there's any way to get a refund of less than three months worth.

    The off road period is supposed to be at least three months I think, but it could probably be put back on the road by taxing it again. Might need a trip to the motor tax office, which is never fun.
    You're missing the point. I'm referring to vehicles which are roadworthy but are used entirely off road - i.e. on private property. There is no requirement to tax these vehicles and that is the point I was trying to make about the letter.

    It's irrelevant how much time your car spends in your driveway each week as I presume you like to utilise it on public roads from time to time and are therefore required to have it taxed when doing so.


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    #189
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Irish Times piece on the Pat Kenny show about the Liffeyside Cycleway

    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/radio-cyclists-get-a-rough-ride-as-pat-kenny-revs-up-his-outrage-1.2819330
    As Kenny talks to the AA’s Conor Faughnan about proposals to ban cars from the city’s north quays in order to make way for cyclists, the conversation is hostile to the idea from the off.
    This is unsurprising. We’re hearing the views of an unabashed fan of the internal combustion engine, who misses no opportunity to bemoan the bad behaviour of cyclists. Faughnan, on the other hand, merely works for the Automobile Association.


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    #190
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    The protests and outrage at journalistic whataboutery are starting to take effect: creditable editorial in The Irish Times today:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/making-cycling-safer-1.2820837
    Government ministers with chauffeur-driven cars need to step outside their privileged position to consider the needs of our most vulnerable road users and to allocate a greater share of the transport “capital envelope” to cycling, including the provision of cycleways that would be physically-separated from the real dangers posed by vehicles travelling at speed.


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    #191
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Irish Times piece on the Pat Kenny show about the Liffeyside Cycleway

    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/radio-cyclists-get-a-rough-ride-as-pat-kenny-revs-up-his-outrage-1.2819330


    I saw that and meant to post it. The second part of his discussion chimes with Deedsie's more positive assessment of Pat Kenny. He can keep his distance healing though.


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    #192
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/dublin-and-traffic-planning-1.2824247

    I'm not sure if this guy is a boardsie... :p


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    #193
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    buffalo wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/dublin-and-traffic-planning-1.2824247

    I'm not sure if this guy is a boardsie... :p

    Cian Ginty's letter is good - calm and considered; he makes the point that a lot of people don't need to drive, and finishes up -
    The latest Liffey cycle route plan does not just give priority to cycling. Walkers, buses and Luas were going to be affected in some previous proposals, and all will be prioritised in the new plan. Asking some drivers to go an extra mile is a small price to pay compared to the benefits of a more attractive, sustainable, and healthier capital city.


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    #194
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    My letter here about insurance (second one). Can't find a bleedin' Irish Times from yesterday so I can frame it and put it in the downstairs toilet for all visitors to read in awe.....

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-insurance-1.2822475


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    #195
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm not 100% comfortable with the argument that many cyclists already have insurance; yes, it's clearly valuable and has it's use.
    but as can be seen by several comments on the irish times page on facebook, it's being seized on as a way of normalising the idea that all cyclists should have insurance; there's no deeper understanding of why the insurance is present.


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    #196
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm not 100% comfortable with the argument that many cyclists already have insurance; yes, it's clearly valuable and has it's use.
    but as can be seen by several comments on the irish times page on facebook, it's being seized on as a way of normalising the idea that all cyclists should have insurance; there's no deeper understanding of why the insurance is present.

    Step 1. Cyclists get insurance
    Step 2. With insurance now normal, cyclists become more inclined to claim when hit.
    Step 3. Motor insurance rises


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    #197
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm not 100% comfortable with the argument that many cyclists already have insurance; yes, it's clearly valuable and has it's use.
    but as can be seen by several comments on the irish times page on facebook, it's being seized on as a way of normalising the idea that all cyclists should have insurance; there's no deeper understanding of why the insurance is present.

    I'm partially in agreement. Many motorists with a car centrist mind think that cyclists should have insurance in case a cyclist scratched their car or damages a wing mirror when passing, and there seems to be loads of anecdotes to support this.

    Cyclists, on the other hand, will primarily have cycling insurance to cover their own injuries, medical expenses time off work etc. Some cyclists also seem to be vehemently against it. My own view is that for €30 odd it's well worth having - I I've head many stories of people who used it to claim for not only accidents with motorists but also when they were alone and came off.


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    #198
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I do feel sorry for the first author on that page, but, as so often when I hear others talking about getting about by bike in the media, I can't believe they're talking about the same thing I've been doing virtually every day for decades.


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    #199
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Where can cyclists get insurance? (I hate insurance companies with a passion, but I'm curious.)


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    #200
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Where can cyclists get insurance? (I hate insurance companies with a passion, but I'm curious.)

    As a member, I'm insured by Cycling Ireland, but I assume that would only be for Sportives, "Training" and if I were in a club and on said spin.

    I used training like that, as someone could as well say they are training on their commute.


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    #201
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    I asked Cycling Ireland and they said they no longer did insurance, I think…? (Still hate insurance companies, but was thinking about it.)


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    #202
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Chuchote wrote: »
    I asked Cycling Ireland and they said they no longer did insurance, I think…? (Still hate insurance companies, but was thinking about it.)

    http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/membership-overview

    Maybe you need to check if you can join CI as an individual, I'm a member through an affiliated a club.


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    #203
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    I've got insurance with my membership of BritishCycling, but I routinely see adverts on facebook for insurance for mountain bikers and the like so there are insurance companies specialising in cover for activities like cycling.


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    #204
    TonyStark
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭TonyStark


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    My letter here about insurance (second one). Can't find a bleedin' Irish Times from yesterday so I can frame it and put it in the downstairs toilet for all visitors to read in awe.....

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-insurance-1.2822475

    I find the first one more interesting, especially the line:

    "The cause of this accident was another cyclist."

    What really he bemoans is a failed criminal justice system.


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    #205
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/membership-overview

    Maybe you need to check if you can join CI as an individual, I'm a member through an affiliated a club.

    As far as I know, anyone with home insurance has third party cover if they hurt someone in a bike crash, am I wrong in this?


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    #206
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    I understand this to be true.


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    #207
    RandomAccess
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    TonyStark wrote: »
    I find the first one more interesting, especially the line:

    "The cause of this accident was another cyclist."

    What really he bemoans is a failed criminal justice system.

    Without a reg plate of some kind it's unlikely the cyclist could be prosecuted.


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    #208
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    Step 1. Cyclists get insurance
    Step 2. With insurance now normal, cyclists become more inclined to claim when hit.
    Step 3. Motor insurance rises

    When were cyclists not inclined to claim when hit.

    The motorist who hits the cyclist was previously insured, and remains insured.

    The issue is that cyclists don't have third party insurance.

    Indeed, its not that easy to find.

    On the flip side, how is it enforced.

    There is no record of who owns a bike at time of accident.

    There is no obligation on cyclists to be ensured.

    It would be very difficult to enforce - e.g. how would insure for third party a 7 year old cycling to school.


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    #209
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I'm partially in agreement. Many motorists with a car centrist mind think that cyclists should have insurance in case a cyclist scratched their car or damages a wing mirror when passing, and there seems to be loads of anecdotes to support this.

    Cyclists, on the other hand, will primarily have cycling insurance to cover their own injuries, medical expenses time off work etc. Some cyclists also seem to be vehemently against it. My own view is that for €30 odd it's well worth having - I I've head many stories of people who used it to claim for not only accidents with motorists but also when they were alone and came off.

    The issue is third party.

    You hit a pedestrian or other cyclist, as per the letter.

    Would you intend to pay for it? if so, then third party cycle insurance is really a must.

    Unless, as mentioned, its covered by home insurance......


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    #210
    RandomAccess
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    The last time I explored this thread of thought I arrived at the conclusion that it is people that should be insured rather than cars, bikes, etc.

    In that case I was considering an assault case where the victim suffered serious injuries and an award was made through the courts.

    So since the root cause of an assault, collision by car or cyclist is a person, that the person is who needs to be insured.


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    #211
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    These guys are giving cycling a good rep...

    Not even from Ireland.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/785960508654493696


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