Beneficiary in Will refusing to give date of birth

athlone573 wrote: »

...I would be tempted just to ... be rid of the whole thing.

+1

Good luck to you if you think you will get a 'quote' from even one solicitor

If you are not a beneficiary i would just resign as executor and leave the mess to somebody else.

CoBo55 wrote: »

Somebody is playing a clever game, you need to thread carefully here because if you get their DOB by deception you could be leaving yourself open to all sorts of hassle. I'd contact the probate office as your solicitor obviously isn't interested in helping you out. Has this person lodged a challenge to the will or are they playing for time to do so?

It is likely that if it is dragging, probate office will step in anyhow.

Redsquigy wrote: »

no property involved at all. just money.

Are you also a beneficiary? If not, I'd walk away.

Geuze wrote: »

OP is executor, can't walk away.

I could have phrased it a bit better - unless OP is a beneficiary they should see if they can renounce their position as executor

Andrea B. wrote: »

Sorry. I thought there was a reasonable time limit to apply for probate.
There is though (12 months?) on behalf of beneficiaries I read just now.

Beneficiaries don't apply for probate. The executor does.

Andrea B. wrote: »

Sorry, was not clear.
I meant that if executor drags past 12 months to apply, then beneficiaries can ask probate office to step in.

The beneficiaries are hardly in a position to complain if it is their own behaviour which is holding things up.
In the case of someone born before 1958 in ireland it is very easy find the date of birth.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/

OP has been nominated to act "in lieu" of the person who owns the assets or money. Their responsibility is to execute the instructions in The Will, and there is a requirement under Anti-Money Laundering Legislation to confirm details of The Executor and then the beneficiaries. That is why the DOB is sought.

I think the "PPSN" issue is irrelevant, and someone in The Probate Office has stuck it on the form because it simplifies their job.

I think The Revenue Commissioners have fallen into the "Mandatory PPSN " rabbit hole that Regina Doherty invented a few years ago.
Unless there is legislation to stipulate otherwise, PPSN is not required, mandatory or necessary (to mis-quote the ex minister) to either execute the terms of a will, or to receive funds as a beneficiary
(what happens if either is not a resident / citizen of this country??)

As there is an issue, and someone is playing games,OP needs to be very careful and consider the next move carefully.
He /she can renounce the role at any time (and walk away if necessary)

Redsquigy wrote: »

no, date of birth also required. A right pain this is. since September 2020 new rules on form that has to be submitted to Revenue in order to get acknowledgment. it is then submitted to probate office.

Have they given you the PPN ?

I assume you tried the other beneficiaries, if any of them are related to your problem beneficiaries, they might know the dob. Are the beneficiaries parents still alive ?

stopthevoting wrote: »

The person was born in the 1980s according to a post on the first page.

If so it should be easy to get an approximate age. There will be people around who remember the person at school. A search in the GRO will get the exact date very quickly.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If so it should be easy to get an approximate age. There will be people around who remember the person at school. A search in the GRO will get the exact date very quickly.

Feck that inspector clouseau stuff,
reasonable best efforts is all anyone could expect.

athlone573 wrote: »

Is there not some way of assisting people who are not computer literate?

As executor, the OP is using the services of a solicitor so the forms will ultimately be submitted by the solicitor.

To the question you ask, I suspect that if someone approaches the Probate Office to do personal probate and says they are not computer literate, they'd be told to use a solicitor. I've done personal probate and IMHO, you'd have no business attempting it if you can't do a bit of Word and Excel or equivalent.

ted1 wrote: »

A PPS entered incorrectly can easily be identified when crisis referenced with a DOB

Many PPS are not linked to a DOB.

GerardKeating wrote: »

Thought they only wanted PPS ?

The personal details must match:PPPS no,name,address and DOB.Any inheritence entitlement will be dependent on the person's tax status.Age will be relevant i.e. ubder employment age or over retirement age.Remember you cannot escape death and taxes no matter.

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Given that the person involved was born in the 1980's it's reasonable to assume that their parents would have claimed child allowance for them, in which case their PPSN would be linked to their date of birth in Social Welfare's systems.

.

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end. Once the o/p has a date of birth he can reverse engineer a PPSN.

GerardKeating wrote: »

Is it permitted to ask how to do this, just interested seeing it my PPSN could be done this way?

And would it work both days, could one determine the dob from the PPSN?

It can't be done. All that can be done is to produce a PPS which will go through the validation.

athlone573 wrote: »

It is the civil service you are dealing with

Nefarious methods of sourcing personal data may not be compliant with GDPR or other laws

I understand that the only thing keeping the OP in the executor role is their conscientiousness in fulfilling the wishes of the deceased and if they are running into difficulties why wouldn't they leave it to the professionals.

A birth cert is a public document. The birth registers are public documents. There is nothing nefarious about looking at a public register. All I suggested was a means of narrowing the search space to speed up the process. If I know someone was born in a particular year I can search that years register. Better again if I know the quarter.
Someone born in the 1980s would have been at school in the 1990s. It should be a simple process to find out when they started secondary school, sat the leaving cert etc. They may have played on under age football teams. The o/p could easily find the general age. He knows that the birth was in the 1980s. Even if he had to start with 1980 and check up to 1989 he would get the date of birth.

athlone573 wrote: »

Fair enough

Personally I wouldn't go rummaging around in the register office.

Yes, but you are lazy.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

can you clarify what it is that can't be done? are you still saying that the OP can reverse engineer a PPSN from a date of birth?

I never said that in the first place.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end. Once the o/p has a date of birth he can reverse engineer a PPSN.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I never said that in the first place.

Technically you did, unless it's a typo

Claw Hammer wrote: »

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end. Once the o/p has a date of birth he can reverse engineer a PPSN.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I didn't say the PPSN could be reverse engineered from a DOB. If the Op has the DOB the next thing he will need is a PPSN. I never said one could be engineered from the other. I was referring to the validation process.

that is almost word for word what you said.

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Hare splitting, and somewhat misleading!

Although the title "PPSN" didn't exist prior to 2000, the relevant number has existed for anyone born in Ireland since 1971. It was called an RSI number until 1999/2000.

And any parent that applied for children's allowance in respect of a child born in the 1980s would have had to send in details of the child's RSI number and date of birth to the Department of Social Welfare. So the DoB would (or should!) be on the Department's records.

There was no RSI number until 1978. The Dept of Social welfare allocated RSI numbers as did the Revenue Commissioners. Parents would not be sending RSI numbers to the DSW because the parents wouldn't have had an RSI number to send.

athlone573 wrote: »

At what age are ppsn allocated nowadays?

a baby gets a PPSN when their birth is registered.