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04-10-2016, 10:43   #31
Macy0161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billgirlylegs View Post
However, driving on footpaths?
Nearest miss I've ever had was on the grade separated cycle lane here
A car that was illegally in the bus lane decided to undertake another car illegally in the bus lane (trying to push back into the driving lane) and mounted the kerb and ended up with wheels on the footpath.
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04-10-2016, 10:54   #32
Orinoco
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Uk data, but i doubt we're much different:
http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning...gs/pedestrians

Most notably:
  • The vast majority of vehicle-related pedestrian injuries on the footway/verge involve a motor vehicle, not a cycle: from 2005-14 (GB), 98.5% of pedestrian fatalities and 95.7% of pedestrian serious injuries that happened in collisions on a footway/verge involved a motor vehicle.
  • From 2005-14, no pedestrians in Britain were killed by red light jumping cyclists, while around five a year were killed by red light jumping drivers.

So, when it comes to dangers for pedestrians on the footpath, or due to other road users breaking red lights, those are the facts.

But every single article in every single paper in the country that talks about cycling HAS to include large amounts of nonsense about how dangerous cyclists are.

It's a joke, it really is.
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04-10-2016, 10:59   #33
AlreadyHome
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My letter to the editor:

RE: Why cycling safety is a two-way street - Tuesday 4th October 2016

Sir,

While I welcome Dick Ahlstrom's call for increased government funding of cycle infrastructure, I despair of the author's unrelated complaint of cyclists' behavior in the same breath. When talk of budgeting for motorways is raised, do we mention drivers' use of mobile phones or breaking the speed limit?

It is an indisputable fact that the vast majority of injuries and deaths on Irish roads are as a result of driver error. I would suggest that until cyclists become responsible for a comparable number of tragedies, talk of misbehaving cyclists is treated as the distraction it is. In the meantime, how about we focus on the environmental, economic and welfare benefits that an improved cycling infrastructure will have on our country and its citizens?

Yours, etc,

AlreadyHome
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04-10-2016, 11:00   #34
greenspurs
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Originally Posted by AlreadyHome View Post
My letter to the editor:

RE: Why cycling safety is a two-way street - Tuesday 4th October 2016

Sir,

While I welcome Dick Ahlstrom's call for increased government funding of cycle infrastructure, I despair of the author's unrelated complaint of cyclists' behavior in the same breath. When talk of budgeting for motorways is raised, do we mention drivers' use of mobile phones or breaking the speed limit?

It is an indisputable fact that the vast majority of injuries and deaths on Irish roads are as a result of driver error. I would suggest that until cyclists become responsible for a comparable number of tragedies, talk of misbehaving cyclists is treated as the distraction it is. In the meantime, how about we focus on the environmental, economic and welfare benefits that an improved cycling infrastructure will have on our country and its citizens?

Yours, etc,

AlreadyHome
Excellent...
Who do we send this to?
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04-10-2016, 11:05   #35
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Originally Posted by AlreadyHome View Post
My letter to the editor:

RE: Why cycling safety is a two-way street - Tuesday 4th October 2016

Sir,

While I welcome Dick Ahlstrom's call for increased government funding of cycle infrastructure, I despair of the author's unrelated complaint of cyclists' behavior in the same breath. When talk of budgeting for motorways is raised, do we mention drivers' use of mobile phones or breaking the speed limit?

It is an indisputable fact that the vast majority of injuries and deaths on Irish roads are as a result of driver error. I would suggest that until cyclists become responsible for a comparable number of tragedies, talk of misbehaving cyclists is treated as the distraction it is. In the meantime, how about we focus on the environmental, economic and welfare benefits that an improved cycling infrastructure will have on our country and its citizens?

Yours, etc,

AlreadyHome
Superb.
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04-10-2016, 11:11   #36
magicbastarder
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Excellent...
Who do we send this to?
i don't think it's a petition, if AlreadyHome has already sent it, job done.
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04-10-2016, 11:13   #37
jive
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The cyclist behaviour nonsense really grates on me. If there were no infrastructure or planning at all and just bicycles then there would be as close to 0% road fatalities as you could get. The problem is that people, not motorists or cyclists, are moronic at times; being moronic on a 15kg bicycle is a lot more forgiving than in a 2000kg car.
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04-10-2016, 11:25   #38
AlreadyHome
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Excellent...
Who do we send this to?
I sent it as a 'letter to the editor' at the Irish Times. Would encourage everyone here to do something along the same line when they read or listen to someone irk them in the media or political sphere - only takes a few minutes!
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04-10-2016, 11:30   #39
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However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
How many times have you seen it?
Cyclists do it all day, everyday.
Have you ever paused to think while cyclists do this? cyclists don't cycle on paths for the laugh or to terrorize pedestrians - they do this because they feel threatened on the road. Lots of kids (and some adults) cycle on the paths where I live - I'd personally prefer this to them being ferried about and contributing to traffic congestion.

Driving down one way streets? how about we being in more contra flows. Problem solved. try cycling from east to west Dublin along the convoluted routes designed to try and address car congestion - one way streets, no left / right turns - all these are done to try and address the impossible - traffic congestion. Lets make our roads more cycling friendly and these problems go away over night.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billgirlylegs View Post
Numbers driving through red lights compared to cyclists doing likewise? One in five I reckon, is being extremely generous.
Numbers of drivers overtaking in a dangerous fashion compared to cyclists "sharing" occupied lanes, overtaking on the left of a vehicle indicating left / in tight spaces?
One for one? I don't think so.
The reason more drivers don't do this is because it's more difficult - that's not to say 3, 4 or sometimes 5 cars will stream through a red, depending on the junction and in the ever present need to 'beat the traffic'. This morning a case in point - castleknock, lights broke in the center of the village. Park gate street - overtaken by a van, to swoop left up military road, in front of me and another cyclist, through a red. Christchurch - this junction is almost farcical - to the extent that a car (or sometimes several, in addition to some cyclists) will stream through waaaaay after the red.

Cyclists are entitled to move up the left of cars - even if they're stationary and indicating left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billgirlylegs View Post
There isn't a media driven campaign. The behaviour of a significant proportion (more than 50%) of cyclists is a big pain, sometimes dangerous to others - pedestrians, cyclists and motorists - and that is why there are so many negative articles and comments.
I don't see major inaccuracy in the article and I don't see a problem with the timing.
the hate against cyclists is media driven - the Irish Times and other publications is heavily subsidized by the car industry through advertising, so they're hardly going to upset their pay masters.

When's the last time you saw an advert for the latest bike, or a "Cycling Section" to counter the motoring one?

Motorists feed on this hate and it's whipped up by the radio - turn into George Hook and you're going to be whipped into a frenzy while you crawl home at 15 kph.

"I'm stuck in a traffic jam I've helped create, who can I blame? Oh look a cyclist breaking a red"

Last edited by Pinch Flat; 04-10-2016 at 11:50.
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04-10-2016, 12:15   #40
greenspurs
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i don't think it's a petition, if AlreadyHome has already sent it, job done.
It doesn't have to be a petition....

If more than one send in letters , MAYBE these editors might actually realise that cyclists should have a say, and an opinion also .
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04-10-2016, 12:31   #41
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Sent this to the councillors - tried to keep it positive - I figure if there's a debate somebody might stand up and say that DCC have an obligation under the NCPF to fulfill these objectives and perhaps point to Grafton Street as an example of a legacy that the council could point to in future years.

Quote:
A chara,

I am writing to you in relation to the forthcoming plan for the Liffey Cycle Route in Dublin City centre. I am a regular cyclist who commutes over 30km round trip each day along the quays from the Westmanstown area to Ballsbridge, largely without incident and alongside traffic that is for the most part courteous. Rather than setting forth my own personal opinions of the positives involved in prioritising public transport, cycling and walking within Dublin i would like to take this opportunity to remind you of the aims and objectives contained within the National Cycle Policy, which is at present more than halfway through its lifetime. You may recall that the overall "mission is to create a strong cycling culture in Ireland" with the vision that "10% of all trips will be by bike by 2020".

Dublin City Council has an exciting window of opportunity to be a genuine and inspiring leader in implementing this vision and the proposed plans would fulfill numerous objectives outlined in the National Cycle Policy Framework. As we close in on the 25th anniversary of the pedestrianisation of Grafton Street I would implore you to reflect on the below objectives during your examination of any cycling plans put forward to the Council and to give strong consideration as to the social and infrastructural legacy which you wish to bestow upon this great city.

Yours etc..... - included the 19 objectives as well
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04-10-2016, 13:24   #42
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Ok who are we to send these to? Ill do it after lunch.
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Originally Posted by greenspurs View Post
Excellent...
Who do we send this to?
Well the Irish Times digital editor is Paddy Logue (plogue@irishtimes.com). You are free to voice your opinion/concerns however i'm not sure how serious it will be taken. Editors receive umpteen positive and negative responses to published pieces.

Logue also has a fairly accurate article on cyclists published earlier this year:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-s...king-1.2642664
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04-10-2016, 13:29   #43
magicbastarder
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a friend of a friend used to be letters ed for the irish times. they may get umpteen responses, but a hell of a lot of it is drivel apparently.
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04-10-2016, 13:46   #44
Eponymous
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Originally Posted by Roadhawk View Post
Well the Irish Times digital editor is Paddy Logue (plogue@irishtimes.com). You are free to voice your opinion/concerns however i'm not sure how serious it will be taken. Editors receive umpteen positive and negative responses to published pieces.

Logue also has a fairly accurate article on cyclists published earlier this year:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-s...king-1.2642664
By accurate, you mean confirms your own opinion?
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04-10-2016, 14:00   #45
AlreadyHome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadhawk View Post
Well the Irish Times digital editor is Paddy Logue (plogue@irishtimes.com). You are free to voice your opinion/concerns however i'm not sure how serious it will be taken. Editors receive umpteen positive and negative responses to published pieces.

Logue also has a fairly accurate article on cyclists published earlier this year:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-s...king-1.2642664
Oh great...so it looks like the editor himself is avidly pro-cycling!
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