Open windows no coats

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 7:23pm #1

Hi, my sons said the teacher had to keep the windows open for covid and they are cold but not allowed wear coats.

Is this a school policy? I cant be sending them in there to shiver all day and Im usually fairly sound when it comes to following teachers orders or wearing a face mask or what have you but this is madness.

Will this run on through the winter? Is it some sort of union dispute?

greasepalm · 21-10-2020 7:33pm

Wrapping up with so much clothes you cant move or wear what cyclists wear to stop the cold air blowing through you like this and sure others do other versions.

https://www.caulfieldindustrial.com/p/snickers-9425-flexiwork-seamless-ls-shirt---black_grey/p-e22934?taxdispinc=y&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuL_8BRCXARIsAGiC51AvgDXtxxnKKEg5j5nDQ-MvDGkYp91mweoJ-WH2AYzqAI_fdEt8niAaAvV2EALw_wcB#fo_c=3215&fo_k=f83108783357fe518ae6d5c860da955c&fo_s=gplaie

If windows have to left open for fresh air anybody in that room needs to be kept warm or whole class will be down with so called covid due to be cold ,sniffles and coughing.

Random sample · 21-10-2020 7:36pm

The windows open is needed for air circulation, but no coats is a school policy.

Thermal underwear and base layers are needed for the winter. I’ve started wearing mine already.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 8:00pm

Random sample wrote: »

The windows open is needed for air circulation, but no coats is a school policy.

Thermal underwear and base layers are needed for the winter. I’ve started wearing mine already.

But the weather can be very hot and cold in different parts of the day, I cant put them in thermals if they are facing east up against a terribly old school window at 9 am and getting roasted followed by freezing up against that window at half 12. A coat is perfect for this situation.

is_that_so · 21-10-2020 8:02pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

But the weather can be very hot and cold in different parts of the day, I cant put them in thermals if they are facing east up against a terribly old school window at 9 am and getting roasted followed by freezing up against that window at half 12. A coat is perfect for this situation.

Layers I would have thought, not necessarily a thermal one. vests, shirts, thicker jumpers.

Lobsterlady · 21-10-2020 8:08pm

My daughter is by the window at school. She is a skinny little thing, with not an ounce of 'insulation' on her...so she wears several layers, and leggings under her school skirt (very long skirts). But she is allowed wear her school jacket, and school hat. I gave her fingerless gloves and a scarf for the couple of bitter days we've had. If any teacher has an issue, I told her to pass on my number.
Ring the school, or email the form tutor, head teacher and pass on your concerns regarding wearing a coat. It's going to get a lot colder soon.

Quantum Erasure · 21-10-2020 8:13pm

Random sample wrote: »

The windows open is needed for air circulation, but no coats is a school policy.

Maybe the school should adjust their policy...

greasepalm · 21-10-2020 8:13pm

What about shading for a window to stop you getting roasted.

shane b · 21-10-2020 8:27pm

It's the same in my daughters school. In order to help air circulation. I see Irish rail are doing the same in carriages that dont have air con.
Just have to wrap them up.
It wont help the school heating bill, if it's worth turning it on at all with doors and windows open.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 8:42pm

greasepalm wrote: »

What about shading for a window to stop you getting roasted.

Are you suggesting I put a venetian blind in his schoolbag?

shesty · 21-10-2020 9:04pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Are you suggesting I put a venetian blind in his schoolbag?

Off-topic, but that gave me the best laugh of my day..

greasepalm · 21-10-2020 9:21pm

2 fingers in his eyes would make him blind also.

SligoBrewer · 21-10-2020 9:32pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Are you suggesting I put a venetian blind in his schoolbag?

Sunglasses will do the job

Random sample · 21-10-2020 9:33pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Maybe the school should adjust their policy...

I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I just meant that you can argue your case about the coat, that’s the school being unreasonable, but there will be no budging on windows being open.

TheValeyard · 21-10-2020 10:02pm

We're letting them wear coats or jumpers. Rooms are freezing. Cant be expected to learn subject lessons when fighting the cold.

Coneygree · 21-10-2020 10:30pm

Yeah we're allowing ours wear coats too. It is completely daft if a school isn't allowing them have something to keep warm.

I'm trying to keep my crew from having the hood up for now as they just tend to just sink into it, zone out and they get nothing done but if it gets absolutely baltic then I'll be allowing that too in time. None of them are complaining about the cold so so far so good for now.

440Hertz · 21-10-2020 10:35pm

What is the absolute obsession schools here have with what children wear? It's insane. I have never seen it anywhere else outside of the army.

It's absolutely cruel to ask someone to sit there with no coat on if they're cold and I can see absolutely no reason for it other than sheer pettiness or bloodymindedness.

I'd quite honestly think it would be one of the few areas where I would send in a letter threatening to go further with legal action. It's totally unreasonable to have someone sitting there freezing. It's inhumane.

Life's stressful enough for people with the pandemic and the lockdown, yet you've someone in authority deciding to make kids lives misery for absolutely no reason.

Air temp at the moment is only about 11-12ºC and could be even lower.

RealJohn · 21-10-2020 10:40pm

Officially, that’s our policy too, but it’s been relaxed as the weather started getting colder. That being said, as has been pointed out, the windows thing is a necessary Covid issue (or so we’re told by the same people who tell us schools are the safest place fit students, but that’s a different issue), so it’s not going to change just because you kick up a fuss.

It’s also worth reminding your kids that it hasn’t actually been that cold yet, but it’s going to be, and they might be better off learning to live with being a little chilly so that they appreciate their coats when it really gets cold. You can come in all guns blazing, but it just sends the kid the message that if they kick up enough, you’ll come to their rescue, and that won’t benefit them in the long run.

Of course if teachers are wearing coats but students aren’t allowed, I would say that that’s something worth mentioning, if that’s the case.

byhookorbycrook · 21-10-2020 10:43pm

As the teacher who is acknowledged by the rest of the staff as “ never feeling the cold ,” there have been a few days already this month that I have . Children are allowed to wear coats or hats as well as base layers , without question. There are a few who push it a bit by wearing hats and t-shirts though !
Unfortunately, with Irish class sizes and small rooms that have no ventilation bar opening windows , it’s going to be a winter of layers . A good thermal base layer for starters and then allow the child to layer up from there .

440Hertz · 21-10-2020 10:46pm

It has been between 12 and 14ºC all week.

Bear in mind that the minimum temperatures are defined in the The Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007. While it may not be directly applicable to students, they're certainly applicable to teachers.

Typically the aim is minimum of 17.5°C for the first hours work and 16ºC there after for sedentary work environments.

If the room temperature is less than that, it's totally unreasonable to ask anyone to work in that space without adequate clothing i.e. coats etc.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 10:46pm

A friend of my wife just told her there that her friends son tried to put on his coat and was told to take it off.

When the son told her she just thought he was messing and the teacher was telling him not to mess. A couple of days later he was upset getting his uniform on and was asking for thermals, when she asked why he said he was cold everyday and teacher told him to wear thermals.

My son says the boy sits at the window. Im a fairly relaxed fella, Im not an anti masker or anti vaxxer or into any of that carry on but if my son told me that, Id have lost it. I can see an angry mob turning up at schools that adopt this policy.

The boy is about 8. Sitting there freezing. Im actually getting more annoyed than I should just typing this.

Why cant the kids hang their coats on the back of their chairs and put them on if they want.

RealJohn · 21-10-2020 10:53pm

Coneygree wrote: »

I'm trying to keep my crew from having the hood up for now as they just tend to just sink into it, zone out and they get nothing done but if it gets absolutely baltic then I'll be allowing that too in time. None of them are complaining about the cold so so far so good for now.

Can’t agree with this. Coats, fine, and maybe scarves, but hats and hoods, no.

rom · 21-10-2020 10:54pm

It would make scene if you engaged with the school and queried this. At face value it does sound crazy as I am aware that some other schools are allowing coats and kids to wear blankets etc so this seems to be deviating in rules from school to school.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 11:03pm

rom wrote: »

It would make scene if you engaged with the school and queried this. At face value it does sound crazy as I am aware that some other schools are allowing coats and kids to wear blankets etc so this seems to be deviating in rules from school to school.

Making a scene would be the last of my worries when my kids are freezing. At the moment I have lunch outdoors and am wearing a coat. I cant sit there eating sambos in a very warm coat while kids arnt getting coats. When the heating broke in my school we all went home. That was a time when it wasnt uncommon to have nothing but a open fire at home to heat a family.

Strumms · 21-10-2020 11:12pm

440Hertz wrote: »

It has been between 12 and 14ºC all week.

Bear in mind that the minimum temperatures are defined in the The Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007. While it may not be directly applicable to students, they're certainly applicable to teachers.

Typically the aim is minimum of 17.5°C for the first hours work and 16ºC there after for sedentary work environments.

If the room temperature is less than that, it's totally unreasonable to ask anyone to work in that space without adequate clothing i.e. coats etc.

If I’m a teacher and the temp drops below what is mandated by the H&S guidelines I’m onto the union, also threatening to withdraw my labour.

If I’m a parent and in that scenario my kid wasn’t being allowed to wear a coat / jacket and hat in class I’d just remove them from the class, get a letter into the department advising that if they thought about making an issue of it you have already consulted your legal representative who are clear that they will advance proceedings to safeguard the health and safety of the child / children. It is not an ‘option’ for the school but a legal obligation that they provide their pupils and staff with a safe, healthy environment to learn in. LEGAL obligation. A classroom with all windows open and no jackets / hat in winter isn’t safe.

In a couple of weeks the temperature will nosedive. If schools want to teach with an ‘open window’ policy....

- heating turned on full from say 5am and on continuously.

- windows and doors closed at breaks to enable the room to warm up again.

- coats and hats allowed.

- windows and doors not ajar more then x number of inches.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 11:20pm

Strumms wrote: »

If I’m a teacher and the temp drops below what is mandated by the H&S guidelines I’m onto the union, also threatening to withdraw my labour.

If I’m a parent and in that scenario my kid wasn’t being allowed to wear a coat / jacket and hat in class I’d just remove them from the class, get a letter into the department advising that if they thought about making an issue of it you have already consulted your legal representative who are clear that they will advance proceedings to safeguard the health and safety of the child / children. It is not an ‘option’ for the school but a legal obligation that they provide their pupils and staff with a safe, healthy environment to learn in. LEGAL obligation. A classroom with all windows open and no jackets / hat in winter isn’t safe.

In a couple of weeks the temperature will nosedive. If schools want to teach with an ‘open window’ policy....

- heating turned on full from say 5am and on continuously.

- windows and doors closed at breaks to enable the room to warm up again.

- coats and hats allowed.

- windows and doors not ajar more then x number of inches.

Excellent post, im in the sitting room now with the heating on, if the wife opens the door to the hall I feel a chill and cant wait for the door to close.

joebloggs32 · 21-10-2020 11:29pm

I am a teacher.

Ive told my class the windows must stay open, and as i have to maximise space on the room some are seated by the windows.
We have the same policy....no coats in class (not something i ever really enforced anyway) but i have told my students they can wear whatever they like, hats, scarves, gloves and lagging jackets for all i care this year.
The world is gone mad. Why can't people just use common sense.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 11:30pm

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I am a teacher.

Ive told my class the windows must stay open, and as i have to maximise space on the room some are seated by the windows.
We have the same policy....no coats in class (not something i ever really enforced anyway) but i have told my students they can wear whatever they like, hats, scarves, gloves and lagging jackets for all i care this year.
The world is gone mad. Why can't people just use common sense.

Fair play to you.

Strumms · 21-10-2020 11:32pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Excellent post, im in the sitting room now with the heating on, if the wife opens the door to the hall I feel a chill and cant wait for the door to close.

Yes, up to third year where we then moved into a brand new property built on adjoining land the original school building was a cold kip. A wooden structure in the main with a 1960’s heating system. Drafty as fûck. With coats not allowed ( thanks Christian brothers ) ... I like to think we are a little more advanced that a common sense compromise can be acquired rather then, ‘sorry lads, covid, you’ll have to freeze your ears off’...

Mrsmum · 21-10-2020 11:40pm

I live almost opposite a secondary school. The amounts of kids who go to school, all winter long, without coats, even in the pouring rain is unreal.

440Hertz · 21-10-2020 11:43pm

We had plenty of arbitrary enforcement of uniform rules when I was kid. I remember for example we had an option of a grey or a white shirt, but most people wore white ones. I turned up in a grey shirt and a teacher pulled me out of class, totally humiliated me and went on this huge rant about uniforms. I was 7! I didn't pick my own shirts.

Same place decided one day my shoes were the wrong shade of black or were too runner like or something and made me go around in my socks for the whole day.

Also the non uniform days in secondary school where jeans were banned. So you'd have to go desperately looking around for chinos, which I didn't own. So I used to skip those days.

Ireland in the 1990s - very much like the rest of the developed world in the 1950s. I just had assumed we had perhaps moved on since the dark ages, but clearly not.

Schools need to get a bit realistic about what's possible at present. It's no time to be getting bogged down, Captain Mainwaring style, focused on extreme minutiae like this. Students, staff and everyone else is under huge stress at present trying to keep the show on the road during an unprecedented national emergency.

jrosen · 21-10-2020 11:47pm

Schools need to adjust policy but I cant see how sitting in a coat is comfortable tbh. As the days are getting colder it would be worth investing in layers.
Funny I cant get my kids to wear a coat. Both heading off in just polos and sweaters for school. Not a mention of being cold.

Man with broke phone · 21-10-2020 11:59pm

jrosen wrote: »

Schools need to adjust policy but I cant see how sitting in a coat is comfortable tbh. As the days are getting colder it would be worth investing in layers.
Funny I cant get my kids to wear a coat. Both heading off in just polos and sweaters for school. Not a mention of being cold.

Yeah a coat doesnt make you happy so I dont mind if you hang it on the rack but it makes my son happy so I dont mind if he wears one.

joebloggs32 · 22-10-2020 12:03am

jrosen wrote: »

Schools need to adjust policy but I cant see how sitting in a coat is comfortable tbh. As the days are getting colder it would be worth investing in layers.
Funny I cant get my kids to wear a coat. Both heading off in just polos and sweaters for school. Not a mention of being cold.

Ask them are the windows opened in their classroom.
If not, id be worried.

Strumms · 22-10-2020 12:22am

jrosen wrote: »

Schools need to adjust policy but I cant see how sitting in a coat is comfortable tbh. As the days are getting colder it would be worth investing in layers.
Funny I cant get my kids to wear a coat. Both heading off in just polos and sweaters for school. Not a mention of being cold.

A kids base layer is bound to be the way to go...

https://www.elverys.ie/elverys/en/Elverys/Boys/Clothing/Kids-Baselayer/Under-Armour®-Heatgear-Kids%27-Top%2C-Black/p/000000001090756003?gclid=Cj0KCQjwuL_8BRCXARIsAGiC51AwSzqB73A0b4ZJHz-k3HbR6_gdcyBhhqs4LgxbMGmQ4HajnO-3vaUaAvprEALw_wcB

This with leggings under trousers / skirt should be the ticket..

Strumms · 22-10-2020 12:32am

I have this exact snood, quality, warm as fûck, big too so with a hat the whole of your head, stays warm..

61fC29EGdlL._AC_UY445_.jpg

Spanish Eyes · 22-10-2020 12:32am

Absolutely, base layers and removable layers is the way to go now. Feck the uniform policy we are in different times now.

When I go walking in the Wicklow Way it is multiple layers that can be donned or doffed as the hike goes on. Kids will be fine. Too much heat is not good for you anyway, makes you sleepy especially with 30 others in the classroom.

Hope the teachers will do the same.

Strumms · 22-10-2020 12:42am

I’d rip a school principal a new one quite literally if they started refusing to allow for compromise and allow the options of winter clothing in class,...

I’d be suggesting the parents get in a huddle, the parents council whatever lead the charge, get a whip around and contact a solicitor, have them contact the school, department of education by letter, threatening legal action if the classroom compromise can’t be reached...

TheValeyard · 22-10-2020 12:47am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Absolutely, base layers and removable layers is the way to go now. Feck the uniform policy we are in different times now.

When I go walking in the Wicklow Way it is multiple layers that can be donned or doffed as the hike goes on. Kids will be fine. Too much heat is not good for you anyway, makes you sleepy especially with 30 others in the classroom.

Hope the teachers will do the same.

Whats hilarious is I know of one school that spent nearly seven years banning the unofficial school fleece jacket. So far as to get the manufacturer to stop producing them. Now the school is filled with them and not a word said! :pac:

Spanish Eyes · 22-10-2020 12:53am

TheValeyard wrote: »

Whats hilarious is I know of one school that spent nearly seven years banning the unofficial school fleece jacket. So far as to get the manufacturer to stop producing them. Now the school is filled with them and not a word said! :pac:

Mad stuff, but money talks and bullsht walks as they say.

Some common sense has to come into this right now.

TheValeyard · 22-10-2020 12:55am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Mad stuff, but money talks and bullsht walks as they say.

Some common sense has to come into this right now.

Sure I felt like a member of the IRA outside the other day during break supervision. Black facemak, black sunglasses, black jacket, black hat on me. All I needed to do was speak in a northern accent and I was set! :pac::D

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 22-10-2020 1:01am

I'd break the shop up if a teacher tried to tell my kid to remove a coat.

They must have a domineering fetish. What kind of pervert enjoys controlling children. Christ.
In most of the rest of Europe you call your teacher in secondary and primary by first name.
It's still sir, miss, Mr Mrs here. Christ.

Strumms · 22-10-2020 1:09am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

I'd break the shop up if a teacher tried to tell my kid to remove a coat.

They must have a domineering fetish. What kind of pervert enjoys controlling children. Christ.
In most of the rest of Europe you call your teacher in secondary and primary by first name.
It's still sir, miss, Mr Mrs here. Christ.

Most teachers nowadays would be reasonable I’d imagine. I’d say most of the proper little domineering psychos are gone, at least I think and I’m told...

The HSA say..

“In cases where it is difficult to maintain an adequate overall temperature, it may be necessary to provide effective local heating, protective clothing or cooling at individual workstations.”

If that applies to teachers it sure as fûck applies to students.

Reg 7, page 8..

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/General_Application_Regulations/gen_apps_workplace.pdf

Country be gone mad. Be great if the teachers went in to bat for kids AND themselves on this.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 22-10-2020 1:21am

Strumms wrote: »

Be great if the teachers went in to bat for kids AND themselves on this.

There's two chances of that ...

GT89 · 22-10-2020 1:24am

That is child abuse full stop. Leaving all the windows open and then not allowing them put on coats. The school would be at fault if one of them children catches hypothermia.

TheValeyard · 22-10-2020 1:25am

GT89 wrote: »

That is child abuse full stop. Leaving all the windows open and then not allowing them put on coats. The school would be at fault if one of them children catches hypothermia.

Kids can't get sick in schools. That would be a community transmission.

Strumms · 22-10-2020 1:27am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

There's two chances of that ...

That would be my thought too but if it furthered their own cause. I could see it happening.

Strumms · 22-10-2020 1:29am

GT89 wrote: »

That is child abuse full stop. Leaving all the windows open and then not allowing them put on coats. The school would be at fault if one of them children catches hypothermia.

Also, imagine the number of kids with certain underlying conditions. It IS child abuse.

RealJohn · 22-10-2020 6:11am

Apparently a load of children got wind of this thread since I went to bed last night.

Oink · 22-10-2020 6:20am

Our school has very good so far and there has been no nonsense.

However if my kids are cold they will wear weather-appropriate clothes. If the window is open, they are outdoors. They will wear hats, scarves and gloves if needed. I will go to war over this.

However like I said we’ve been lucky so far.

lulublue22 · 22-10-2020 8:20am

Oink wrote: »

Our school has very good so far and there has been no nonsense.

However if my kids are cold they will wear weather-appropriate clothes. If the window is open, they are outdoors. They will wear hats, scarves and gloves if needed. I will go to war over this.

However like I said we’ve been lucky so far.

This sort of reply gets my goat - There is no need to go to war - a simple conversation can do wonders.
No one wants to be cold including teachers. Re coats they can be bulky and uncomfortable for long periods particularly while writing or any activity that includes repetitive hand movements. Thermal vests / pants are great. You can get heat sensitive ones in dunnes / marks which are light weight but warm. Hats are also a good option.

Open windows no coats

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