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Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

1…2729313233

Comments

  • #1402
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Besides, abortion is being used as a contraceptive by some.

    Do you really believe that? There are many other, and easier, forms of contraceptive readily available. I'm personally opposed to abortion but I will not preach to others and respect their beliefs. It's legal but, thankfully, not compulsory.


  • #1403
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    nthclare wrote: »
    I remember some goon on boards.ie telling me that if you agree with a person having a choice of their own on what to do with their body you agree with abortion.

    And this cuck was all for abortion, I was under a different username at the time.

    I was trying to explain that its up to people to choose what they want to do with their body.
    And in certain circumstances say if the mother life was in danger, she's being raped or the baby won't survive then it's better to do what has to be done.
    Im a parent myself and love kids, so I can't see why it's logical to get rid of a kid for the sake of a career or thinking it'll ruin one's future.

    My exe had a baby at 19, she's from Clare got pregnant in college in Carlow, had the baby girl and studied away through pregnancy, took a year out and stayed in Carlow and worked hard and finished college.
    Went and did her doctorate afterwards and now she's highly successful and has a great life and her daughter is nearly finished her doctorate.
    Where there's a will there's a way.

    But no that answer wasn't applicable, for these numpties it was black or white.

    I was pushed out of the debate, but sure look at the end of the day her body her choice.

    No problem there.
    And yet the statistics show that single mothers, and especially those who became mothers young, are far more likely to be living in poverty than the average.

    Anecdotes about how one person succeeded despite the odds don't change that, and more to the point, her decision to continue the pregnancy was (I presume) her own. Someone else's decision might not have been the same, for all sorts of reasons.

    Pro choice means just that - whether she chooses to continue the pregnancy or to end it, she gets to make that decision. And the reality - or hypocrisy - in Ireland was that your friend, like most women in Ireland, even with the 8th, did have that choice, as long as they were healthy enough to travel and had the means to do so.

    The 8th needed to be removed because of all the other deleterious effects it was having, like women with cancer being refused treatment because they'd had a positive pregnancy test, or women undergoing miscarriages being allowed to deteriorate until they were actually ill before surgical intervention was possible, as much as to allow women access to abortion in general. In most cases, they already had that, one way or another.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #1404
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    volchitsa wrote: »
    And yet the statistics show that single mothers, and especially those who became mothers young, are far more likely to be living in poverty than the average.

    Anecdotes about how one person succeeded despite the odds don't change that, and more to the point, her decision to continue the pregnancy was (I presume) her own. Someone else's decision might not have been the same, for all sorts of reasons.

    Pro choice means just that - whether she chooses to continue the pregnancy or to end it, she gets to make that decision. And the reality - or hypocrisy - in Ireland was that your friend, like most women in Ireland, even with the 8th, did have that choice, as long as they were healthy enough to travel and had the means to do so.

    The 8th needed to be removed because of all the other deleterious effects it was having, like women with cancer being refused treatment because they'd had a positive pregnancy test, or women undergoing miscarriages being allowed to deteriorate until they were actually ill before surgical intervention was possible, as much as to allow women access to abortion in general. In most cases, they already had that, one way or another.


    But there again I know that you mean well and you're not giving me a lecture.

    I am aware of our history and the variables in choice and personal circumstances as well as the past.


  • #1405
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    nthclare wrote: »
    I remember some goon on boards.ie telling me that if you agree with a person having a choice of their own on what to do with their body you agree with abortion.

    And this cuck was all for abortion, I was under a different username at the time.

    I was trying to explain that its up to people to choose what they want to do with their body.
    And in certain circumstances say if the mother life was in danger, she's being raped or the baby won't survive then it's better to do what has to be done.
    Im a parent myself and love kids, so I can't see why it's logical to get rid of a kid for the sake of a career or thinking it'll ruin one's future.

    My exe had a baby at 19, she's from Clare got pregnant in college in Carlow, had the baby girl and studied away through pregnancy, took a year out and stayed in Carlow and worked hard and finished college.
    Went and did her doctorate afterwards and now she's highly successful and has a great life and her daughter is nearly finished her doctorate.
    Where there's a will there's a way.

    But no that answer wasn't applicable, for these numpties it was black or white.

    I was pushed out of the debate, but sure look at the end of the day her body her choice.

    No problem there.
    The 8th made it black and white.


  • #1406
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?


  • #1407
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?

    God (if you believe in him).


  • #1408
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,823 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?

    God


  • #1409
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    Igotadose wrote: »
    God

    And pedophilia?


  • #1410
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?

    Abortion has been around as long as humans have been.
    There will always be a percentage of women who cannot or will not remain pregnant, for their own personal reasons.
    It isn't a new or modern concept at all.


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  • #1411
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,823 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Titclamp wrote: »
    And pedophilia?

    The RCC


  • #1412
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Abortion has been around as long as humans have been.
    There will always be a percentage of women who cannot or will not remain pregnant, for their own personal reasons.
    It isn't a new or modern concept at all.

    An links to it


  • #1413
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?

    Abortion has probably existed for as long as women were aware of what pregnancy was. It's mentioned in humanity's most ancient writings according to wiki:
    The Vedic and smrti laws of India reflected a concern with preserving the male seed of the three upper castes; and the religious courts imposed various penances for the woman or excommunication for a priest who provided an abortion. In the epic Ramayana, there is description that the practice of abortion was being done by the surgeons or barbers in those days.

    The only evidence of the death penalty being mandated for abortion in the ancient laws is found in Assyrian Law, in the Code of Assura, c. 1075 BCE; and this is imposed only on a woman who procures an abortion against her husband's wishes. The first recorded evidence of induced abortion is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BCE.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #1414
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Titclamp wrote: »
    An links to it

    Links to what? do you have a genuine question that you want answered?


  • #1415
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    An links to it

    I always wonder why some posters post at length about a subject they clearly have a strong opinion about but appear to be unable to google for information for themselves. I assume it's a deliberate strategy.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #1416
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Abortion has probably existed for as long as women were aware of what pregnancy was. It's mentioned in humanity's most ancient writings according to wiki:

    Why was there such outrage then as now.


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  • #1417
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?

    It was widely accepted in ancient Greece and Rome.


  • #1418
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    volchitsa wrote: »
    I always wonder why some posters post at length about a subject they clearly have a strong opinion about but appear to be unable to google for information for themselves. I assume it's a deliberate strategy.

    Yes its deliberately to get information.


  • #1419
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Titclamp wrote: »
    An links to it

    Look it up. You obviously have access to the internet.


  • #1420
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    It was widely accepted in ancient Greece and Rome.

    So was pedophilia


  • #1421
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Yes its deliberately to get information.

    No it's obviously not. You'd google it yourself if that was what you wanted.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • #1422
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    volchitsa wrote: »
    No it's obviously not. You'd google it yourself if that was what you wanted.

    And what is it so ? Its not what I wanted its why I asked so I didn't have to search endlessly.


  • #1423
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    volchitsa wrote: »
    No it's obviously not. You'd google it yourself if that was what you wanted.

    The poster you are responding to has all the hallmarks of a WUM.


  • #1424
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Titclamp wrote: »
    An links to it

    Its widely accepted common knowledge that abortion has always existed.
    More ancient methods involved ingesting poisons, then coat hangers, back street surgeries and throwing themselves down the stairs.
    In more mordern times, we travelled to the UK to avail of competant medical care over there.

    So long as there are women becoming pregnant, there will be women needing a termination. It has always been this way and it will continue to be this way, whether its illegal or whether its regulated.
    This is a fact of life.

    If you truly want to learn more, google is your friend.


  • #1425
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    Why is asking questions so irritating for some?


  • #1426
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    So was pedophilia

    So?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #1427
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    From reading a couple of threads here there are a few people who are vigorously opposed to abortion, and write about the sanctity of life, and yet are posting against vaccinations that save lives and prevent agony for women and children. Double standards, to say the least.


  • #1428
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Its widely accepted common knowledge that abortion has always existed.
    More ancient methods involved ingesting poisons, then coat hangers, back street surgeries and throwing themselves down the stairs.
    In more mordern times, we travelled to the UK to avail of competant medical care over there.

    So long as there are women becoming pregnant, there will be women needing a termination. It has always been this way and it will continue to be this way, whether its illegal or whether its regulated.
    This is a fact of life.

    If you truly want to learn more, google is your friend.

    Google isn't always the most reliable source is it.


  • #1429
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Why is asking questions so irritating for some?

    Because you could very easily google these things if you were truly interested in learning. This thread isn't your personal researching service.
    We aren't here to provide you with information you could very easily find for yourself.


  • #1430
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Google isn't always the most reliable source is it.

    And boards.ie is?


  • #1431
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Because you could very easily google these things if you were truly interested in learning. This thread isn't your personal researching service.
    We aren't here to provide you with information you could very easily find for yourself.

    I'm not really interested in learning about the history of abortion. Why I asked for links.

    Well if there's no real information then its just opinion.


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  • #1432
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And boards.ie is?[/quote

    Tries to sound like it is.


  • #1433
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Titclamp wrote: »
    I'm not really interested in learning about the history of abortion. Why I asked for links.

    Well if there's no real information then its just opinion.
    Titclamp wrote: »
    Wh9 invented abortion anyways?

    You don't seem to know what you're looking for at all. If you truly want to learn I'm sure you are more than capable of conducting a google search, finding impartial websites isn't particularly difficult either.
    Best of luck.


  • #1434
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    You don't seem to know what you're looking for at all. If you truly want to learn I'm sure you are more than capable of conducting a google search, finding impartial websites isn't particularly difficult either.
    Best of luck.

    You can be apathetic about a subject and still ask a question.

    Its boring anyways. Brings out the neuroticism in everyone.


  • #1435
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Before abortion, there is a human life

    After abortion, no life

    And that stage of life is where we were all at at one time. Without it we do not exist.

    It is the ultimate betrayal.


  • #1436
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Before abortion, there is a human life

    After abortion, no life

    And that stage of life is where we were all at at one time. Without it we do not exist.

    It is the ultimate betrayal.

    We were all eggs and sperm too, but so what? I really don't get this "betrayal" thing - is it betrayal to use contraception to stop babies who would otherwise be conceived?

    Isn't it more important to be able to care for those babies that are actually born than to just bring as many as possible of them unthinkingly into the world?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #1437
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Titclamp wrote: »
    So was pedophilia
    So was bathing, watching plays, playing sports, debating, eating, drinking, laughing.

    What's your point?


  • #1438
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    volchitsa wrote: »
    We were all eggs and sperm too, but so what? I really don't get this "betrayal" thing - is it betrayal to use contraception to stop babies who would otherwise be conceived?

    Isn't it more important to be able to care for those babies that are actually born than to just bring as many as possible of them unthinkingly into the world?

    So is it harder to care for a baby noe than say 200 years ago?


  • #1439
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    seamus wrote: »
    So was bathing, watching plays, playing sports, debating, eating, drinking, laughing.

    What's your point?

    Yeah raping children might be the same as laughing in your head


  • #1440
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    So is it harder to care for a baby noe than say 200 years ago?

    Maybe you should just make your point rather than asking questions and then saying you aren't interested in the answers.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • #1441
    dartboardio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Abortion is legal.

    Fair is fair.

    Whether that's at two weeks or fifteen weeks, so be it.


  • #1442
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Maybe you should just make your point rather than asking questions and then saying you aren't interested in the answers.

    Not a question it's a guestimation.

    Stop trying to force people to be other than who they are. I'm entitled to say what's correlative to what's being spouted.


  • #1443
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Yeah raping children might be the same as laughing in your head
    We were just listing off things that were popular in ancient Greece and Rome.

    Did you have a point?


  • #1444
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Hopefully they will legalise murder for the craic

    Not possible, if it's legal it isn't murder and if it's murder it isn't legal.


  • #1445
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Not a question it's a guestimation.

    Stop trying to force people to be other than who they are. I'm entitled to say what's correlative to what's being spouted.

    What is?

    (I don't understand what the rest of your post is about either.)

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #1446
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Titclamp wrote: »
    seamus wrote: »
    We were just listing off things that were popular in ancient Greece and Rome.

    Did you have a point?

    That the Romans or Greeks aren't really a good barometer for what's good morality.

    That's true. They banned abortion and allowed slavery, rape of female servants or slaves and of course rape within marriage, and paedophilia. We've done pretty much the opposite in all of those instances.

    I think that's a good thing. Don't you?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • #1447
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Titclamp wrote: »
    That the Romans or Greeks aren't really a good barometer for what's good morality.
    OK, thanks for that.

    Nobody said they were, but your contribution is valued.


  • #1448
    uptherebels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Both are equally abhorrent acts.

    Your opinion of them doesn't make both scenarios the same. Logically or otherwise.


  • #1449
    uptherebels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Besides, abortion is being used as a contraceptive by some.

    Contraception prevents a pregnancy occuring. So no abortion can't be used as a contraceptive.


  • #1450
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Since when are homo sapiens considered good?

    Their just are.

    Are you deliberately trying to derail the thread?


  • #1451
    uptherebels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Titclamp wrote: »
    Well you can't trust daft humans to know how to use contraception properly.

    We can get rid of that for you courtesy of the HSE

    Even when used properly there is still a failure rate. If everybody used contraception perfectly everytime, there would still be abortions.


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