Airbnb - renting room + house for weekend when tenants are away

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 1:21pm #1

Situation: I am owner/occupier of a 2 bedroom house in Dublin. I rent one room to tenants (couple).

I am due to be posted overseas for work next month. Posting is for 3 years. I would very much like to give the current tenants the opportunity to stay on in the house. I had floated the idea of simply taking in a new tenant in my place but they would prefer take on the property for themselves.

Proposal: The tenants go home pretty much every weekend owing to family obligations. An idea that I have been exploring is, for the weekends the tenants are away, putting tenant's current room under lock and key and putting house + my current room for let on Airbnb (let days would amount to less than 90 per year).

I would like to arrange some kind of split for any income that may be generated from this venture. In the first instance, I would be renting the house to current tenants so the airbnb is a kind sublet on their part. Has anyone rented out in a similar property in a similar way? What would be considered a fair split? This could be win win for all of us as income tenants get would help with their rent - which I suspect might be a little out of their range as things stands.

I would need to give the tenants control over what weekends they want to put the property on Airbnb. Would there likely be any practical issues to having joint access to Airbnb account? I should be able to easily manage cleaning/services etc as I have family 2 doors up and plenty of contacts for cleaning services.

I am only at the 'idea' stage right now. I'm a meticulous researcher but this work posting was sprung on me at the last minute so any help with the broad strokes would be greatly appreciated. I am researching tax matters separately.

Many thanks

whomitconcerns · 07-12-2019 1:36pm

So you want your tenants to allow strangers into their home at weekends... Sorry but I can't see this working on any level. At the moment they are licencees not tenants as they live with you the owner.

Your not there then they become tenants. Different legal obligations and your stranger at the weekend idea losses value fast...

Gumbo · 07-12-2019 3:50pm

Will you require planning permission based on the new rules?
Will your tenants allow people into their room in their absence and if so will they be compensated for this?

What if they decide on a Friday afternoon that they want to stay for the weekend? What if you have a booking and your tenants are in watching tv and sitting up for a movie late (which they’re are entitled to)?

Personally, it sounds messy and not fair on the tenants. And I say that as a landlord.

JJJackal · 07-12-2019 4:09pm

Where would you put the tenants other possessions eg food etc during the weekend so that your new tenants (Air BNB) dont use them?

What will be the utilities split be?

What if your Air bnb tenants dont leave the house clean on Sunday evening? Will your family be available to clean it Sunday evening before your regular tenants come back? Will they do this every week for you?

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 4:14pm

whomitconcerns wrote: »

So you want your tenants to allow strangers into their home at weekends... Sorry but I can't see this working on any level. At the moment they are licencees not tenants as they live with you the owner.

Your not there then they become tenants. Different legal obligations and your stranger at the weekend idea losses value fast...

As stated, I will be overseas for next 3 years. I will no longer be living in the property. Should the licencees (yes, correct term - for now) wish to take over property themselves, I will provide new lease (i.e. they will become tenants).

Any arrangements re airbnb sublet will be with express consent of tenants. Again, this is merely an idea/proposal I am exploring for now. I don't wish for people to speculate whether this is an arrangement that people (themselves, tenants or otherwise) may find desireable.

JJJackal · 07-12-2019 4:16pm

j.s. pill II wrote: »

As stated, I will be overseas for next 3 years. I will no longer be living in the property. Should the licencees (yes, correct term - for now) wish to take over property themselves, I will provide new lease (i.e. they will become tenants).

Any arrangements re airbnb sublet will be with express consent of tenants. Again, this is merely an idea/proposal I am exploring for now. I don't wish for people to speculate whether this is an arrangement that people (themselves, tenants or otherwise) may find desireable.

I suspect this would not be a profitable endeavour and lead to alot of hassle for you (which if you are not in the country you probably dont need)

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 4:18pm

JJJackal wrote: »

Where would you put the tenants other possessions eg food etc during the weekend so that your new tenants (Air BNB) dont use them?

What will be the utilities split be?

What if your Air bnb tenants dont leave the house clean on Sunday evening? Will your family be available to clean it Sunday evening before your regular tenants come back? Will they do this every week for you?

These are certianly important matters to consider (I have answers...family certianly will not be hired for cleaning!

).

For now, l'd be grateful if we could try and focus thread down to questions I asked in OP. Cheers

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 4:24pm

kceire wrote: »

Will you require planning permission based on the new rules?
Will your tenants allow people into their room in their absence and if so will they be compensated for this?

What if they decide on a Friday afternoon that they want to stay for the weekend? What if you have a booking and your tenants are in watching tv and sitting up for a movie late (which they’re are entitled to)?

Personally, it sounds messy and not fair on the tenants. And I say that as a landlord.

1) Nope. if rented for less than 90 days in year change of permission not required.

2) Nope. As stated, There are two rooms. My old room is the one I propose to have airbnb guests in. Tenants room will be locked

3) I want tenants to have sole control over when they want to let.

Calina · 07-12-2019 4:36pm

This is a beyond stupid idea. If I were your tenants it would be a straight no.

Are you in the Irish accommodation market? Because if so, it is even crappier and less professional than I thought it was. Cannot believe an owner occupier would come up with this idea. Most owners would have caniptions if their tenants airbnbed the place.

looksee · 07-12-2019 4:45pm

So the tenants let the place to a crowd who come and have a mad party (only two booked but they gained some hangers on). They trash the place. You ask tenants why they let to an unreliable crowd and didn't supervise them. They say they just let the place as instructed and had to go home for various reasons. You try to claim off your insurance. Insurance say 'hey, you are not living there and your tenants are subletting, sorry no insurance'. You ask your relations to sort it but they are all busy.

Yes sounds like a great idea.

Gumbo · 07-12-2019 5:35pm

j.s. pill II wrote: »

1) Nope. if rented for less than 90 days in year change of permission not required.

2) Nope. As stated, There are two rooms. My old room is the one I propose to have airbnb guests in. Tenants room will be locked

3) I want tenants to have sole control over when they want to let.

If the tenants have sole control, who earns the air bnb money?

elperello · 07-12-2019 5:42pm

Just get someone else who is interested in renting the other room and get your family to keep an eye on things for you.

Tell me how · 07-12-2019 5:42pm

Practicalities of AirBnb mean that someone needs to clean property after guests visit. Many places use lockboxes and do meet guest in person now, but, given there are tenants in this property I think it is essential that someone would show guests around so they can answer questions about access to certain areas and food or other items such as toiletries belonging to tenants etc.

Can see it being way more hassle than it is worth.

Suggest you get a full time tenant for your room or let the tenants in the house get a friend in and prepare appropriate rental agreement.

I'm living in US at the moment and have a house empty back in Ireland. Need to decide what to do with it and it's a bit of a headwreck.

martyoo · 07-12-2019 5:55pm

Calina wrote: »

This is a beyond stupid idea. If I were your tenants it would be a straight no.

Are you in the Irish accommodation market? Because if so, it is even crappier and less professional than I thought it was. Cannot believe an owner occupier would come up with this idea. Most owners would have caniptions if their tenants airbnbed the place.

Did you bother to read the OP? They don't want someone else moving in and this is a suggested alternative.

Regardless it sounds like too much hassle. Personally I'd move another tenant in to take the room and if they don't like it then tough.

Ubbquittious · 07-12-2019 6:00pm

Ahh Jaysis the auld tiger is in full swing, every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to extract a few bob out of the property market. Why not throw an auld matress in under the stairs and rent that out as a room. The garden shed could make a few bob as well fuk all the tools out into a skip sure you hardly use them and you can just buy new ones when the next crash comes along with all your millions

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 6:00pm

Calina wrote: »

This is a beyond stupid idea. If I were your tenants it would be a straight no.

Are you in the Irish accommodation market? Because if so, it is even crappier and less professional than I thought it was. Cannot believe an owner occupier would come up with this idea. Most owners would have caniptions if their tenants airbnbed the place.

May indeed be a stupid idea. That's precisely why I am asking people who may have had involvement in such arrangements before taking any action

I suggest you have a read back through the thread and look at the details. Prime reason behind the idea is that tennants can earn some money off what will be a spare room + vacant property at the weekend. May not be able to afford rent for whole house otherwise.

And it is just an idea. Can't say I'm entirely un-sympathetic to your venting at landlords. Whole city is just god-awful. I haven't raised rent on my own place a cent in the last 3 years and I try to keep everything as transparent and above board as I can.

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 6:02pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Ahh Jaysis the auld tiger is in full swing, every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to extract a few bob out of the property market. Why not throw an auld matress in under the stairs and rent that out as a room. The garden shed could make a few bob as well fuk all the tools out into a skip sure you hardly use them and you can just buy new ones when the next crash comes along with all your millions

Not an entirely unfair assessment - please see above comment

Spanish Eyes · 07-12-2019 6:03pm

I don't know what the problem is here, other than planning permission.

If your tenants are OK with it, go for it, but don't expect current tenants to prepare or clean up after AB+B guests leave. Honestly, any tenant/licensee would be mad to agree to this.

Anyway what I cannot figure out is WHY you would want the hassle of all this. Answers on a postcard please!

Oh and your tax situation will change too. Check it out.

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 6:05pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

I lived in a house share where this was done. We all rented room by room but we were tenants with leases. Not licencees

The landlady decided to rent out a room or two on air bnb

Us tenants come out of bedrooms in the morning and see a chap with a toothbrush, who are you ??? Air bnb guests assuming they get toilet paper and tea and other stuff includes but the tenants paid for that , not the landlady. Oh these things are cheap but we didn’t get a cent of the air bnb but we pay for these. Our food got taken too and what can we do , the person may be gone.

Complaints were made and the landlady decided to keep the long term tenants happy instead

Air bnb can work and renters can work but not mixing the both

And OP your idea is even more complicated as you want the tenants to manage it

Jesus - that is just mental

How did the landlady get away with suddenly deciding to rent out rooms if existing tenants had a lease? Madness.

j.s. pill II · 07-12-2019 6:20pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I don't know what the problem is here, other than planning permission.

If your tenants are OK with it, go for it, but don't expect current tenants to prepare or clean up after AB+B guests leave. Honestly, any tenant/licensee would be mad to agree to this.

Anyway what I cannot figure out is WHY you would want the hassle of all this. Answers on a postcard please!

Oh and your tax situation will change too. Check it out.

No planning permission change required is place is rented less than 90 days per year

Intention would be for pre/post cleaning to be handled by paid cleaner. Current one I use occasionally is very reasonable

Looking in to tax issues. Big change now that my rent a room break will be gone

James Bond Junior · 07-12-2019 6:27pm

I'm an overseas landlord and your situation sounds like a dream one. You have tenants ready to take over your place, who you have personally vetted and can rest easy the place is being looked after and they are only there 5 days a week so wear and tear is reduced. If you are going abroad you can register as non domiciled and will only be liable for 20% tax so you're already ahead. You've been dealt a decent hand, don't push it would be my take on it.

dori_dormer · 07-12-2019 6:35pm

Either, rent your room out to a new tenant. Or offer the entire property to your current licencees at an increased, rate applicable to the area.
Dont go messing about with rent, Airbnb strangers+ cleaners and forgein landlord taxes on top of it all. keep it as simple as possible

1 tenant = simple!

07-12-2019 10:38pm

j.s. pill II wrote: »

Jesus - that is just mental

How did the landlady get away with suddenly deciding to rent out rooms if existing tenants had a lease? Madness.

If they were only renting rooms what right had they to stop the LL renting out other rooms anyway she wanted.

bbbbb · 07-12-2019 10:52pm

There might be other things you both need to consider, as it sounds like you will become a non resident
https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-45/45-01-04.pdf
(I’m not an accountant, and I’ve no first hand experience of this)

JJJackal · 08-12-2019 10:18am

Jessa Better Restoration wrote: »

If they were only renting rooms what right had they to stop the LL renting out other rooms anyway she wanted.

No right but on the same note the LL new tenants stole from the original tenants and thus technically a crime was comitted

ted1 · 08-12-2019 10:25am

j.s. pill II wrote: »

1) Nope. if rented for less than 90 days in year change of permission not required.

2) Nope. As stated, There are two rooms. My old room is the one I propose to have airbnb guests in. Tenants room will be locked

3) I want tenants to have sole control over when they want to let.

I may be wrong but are the Tenants are allowed sub let via airbnb, the 90 days applied to whole properties and not single rooms.

TSQ · 09-12-2019 12:46pm

Your best bet is to charge existing tenants close to going rent for your area for an entire house, as you say they are interested in taking it on. Then tell them they can airbnb your room (or entire house) while you are away, if rent is unaffordable. Assume you dont want either your tenants or for yourself to take another full-time tenant as you will want to return in 3 years and maybe stay the odd weekend yourself when you are home (make sure this is specified in any new agreement, in other words, you retain residency rights and they remain licencees, if thats what you want). Insist on only airbnb platform. You can open an airbnb account with yourself as main host and tenants as co-host, or vice-versa, that way you will be able to monitor what is going on while still allowing tenants control over when and to whom the room is airbnb’d. If you are in Dublin, there is a reliable company that will manage your property including linen and cleaning, if tenants dont want this hassle, but at a high cost. Tenants might prefer to keep the extra income and do it themselves. You will have to discuss the tax implications, as to who, you or the tenants, declare the income. Stays over 2 weeks can be considered residential, less than that is a tourist letting as far as I know, in which case tenants could be liable for tax if the airbnb inccome goes into their bank account. will need some thought And advice from accountant if you all agree to go ahead with this arrangement. Complicated but do-able if you have good relationship with tenants.

SozBbz · 09-12-2019 5:34pm

Agree with others, proposition is pure madness.

You seem to put a lot of stock into what the current licensees can afford and what they want.

They can't dictate both of those things. They can either pay a decent rate for the whole place and perhaps (insurance allowing) they may wish to airbnb or sublet themselves, making the tax/logistical issues theirs and not yours. A lot of LLs won't allow this at all, so this would be decent of you.

Or, you can keep charging them whatever it is you charge them and get a new tenant in for your room at the going rate.

If they want the whole place, then they have to pay the whole place price. If theyre not in a position to do this, then they don't get to dictate what happens with your former room. Tell them you need the income regardless, what would be fair is to allow them to vet prospective roommates so that they get a say on who they'd be living with.

You being involved in airbnbs at a distance seems ridiculous to me.

jimmycrackcorm · 10-12-2019 2:32am

I use Airbnb abroad several times a month where this is a normal scenario.

Some rooms are rented to regular long term tenants and as such the kitchen and fridge etc are reserved for them. It's not a problem.

In the ops case I think there is a benefit in that the service / cleaning fee should make things more palatable.

ridonkulous · 10-12-2019 2:51am

So you want to Airbnb your room at weekends. My room will be locked while I'm away. You'll cut me in on the Airbnb money. I'll have the place to myself Monday to Friday give or take a few hours on a Friday and Monday for check-in and check-out.

Where do I sign up?!

Sounds like a win win to me. I'd much prefer it to a permanent house/flat share especially if I'm in a relationship and especially if I'm away most if not all weekends anyway.

The only place I can see there being an issue is if I have to be away on prearranged Airbnb weekends but if that's not the case then it sounds good to me from a tenants points of view.

I don't get all the outrage about it being a terrible idea. Different people have different lifestyles and requirements. This one sounds workable to me as a tenant anyway.

Del2005 · 10-12-2019 3:01am

One thing to be aware of is when you move away the people in the apartment will change from licences to tenants, you can write any contract you want if they go legal they are tenants. So while they may agree to the ludicrous proposal and even sign a contract the law is clear that you can't sign away your rights. The proposed new tenancy laws alse mean that you might not be able to get your home back when you return in 3 years.

Airbnb - renting room + house for weekend when tenants are away

Comments