Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

LuckyLloyd · 18-03-2020 11:46pm

Dav010 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how the “professional” landlords respond to this. Will the REITs and forward funded landlords be willing to absorb losses.

What can they do about it? This thing and the necessary state reaction is much bigger than their interests. They have no choice in the matter.

utmbuilder · 19-03-2020 12:10am

my numbers are probably way off here,
so if a landlords mortgage is 1500 a month, and at 4%

3 months is 4500, plus 4% annually over the term of the mortgage another 5500?

10,000 loss from 3 months? or have i got it wrong.

rob316 · 19-03-2020 12:33am

jrosen wrote: »

I was only thinking the same. Im a landlord and the property has a mortgage on it. So I wont be allowing any rent break.The mortgage still has to be paid. Even if I got a break on the mortgage, it will be tagged onto the end for me and ultimately I will take the hit.

I dont see how there could be a break for renters.

Call it the cost of doing business. There will be a lot of pain for everybody, you should be no exception.

rob316 · 19-03-2020 12:39am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I have an apartment rented out, on which there is still a mortgage to be paid. If i get a 3 month holiday on the repayments, i'd give a 3 month break on the rent - it will leave me out of pocket which is a bit shít (and which i can ill afford) but i don't really see another option. The 3 months "free" rent will just have to be tacked on at the end of the mortgage, finish paying 3 months later than planned - boo hoo!

These are unusual times, we're all going to have to do unusual things!

Theres a decent skin, 3 months is nothing on a 25 year mortgage.

FAILSAFE 00 · 19-03-2020 1:32am

Fann Linn wrote: »

Judging by some comments here I can see emergency protections being introduced for tenants.

Instead of taking 1 year to evict it will now be 2 lol.

transik · 19-03-2020 2:22am

Jet Black wrote: »

Thinking the same about my tenant. They can still easily pay, I know that won't be out of work because of what they do. Should I be expected to let them take a rent break too?

Well i know nothing about your tenant and what they do for living but i was affected by the outbreak and i dont work since saturday.all i got is emergency 203€ payment

transik · 19-03-2020 2:27am

Dav010 wrote: »

Why are you assuming he can easily absorb the loss in rent? Are you privy to his accounts?

This feeds into the notion that all landlords are rich and have no other costs nor debts to pay.

We just know. he owns a lot of apartment blocks around D7 and lives in spain so its safe to say he is doing alright
Mean time flat receives zero maintance and i may get new paint on the walls in 2045 not to mention he tried to increase the rent more then he is allowed thank god flat is only 5 min walk from threshold

Tacitus Kilgore · 19-03-2020 9:18am

Fol20 wrote: »

So one the one side you want people to have a nice side and be socially responsible yet you also understand what terrible business practices are.. You do realise that both of these are like oil and water.

There's your problem, you seem to think that in order to be successful in business you have to be socially irresponsible. "I'm alright jack" - just written a different way.

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 9:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

Landlords are gonna have to take the hit as the rest of the public are.

There is nothing special about you as a landlord, sorry.

Are you going to use the same attitude when you do your shopping?
"Sorry Mr Lidl, you are not special so I'm not paying you for this food I'm bringing home"?

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 9:26am

LeineGlas wrote: »

"Don't be poor", why didn't I think of that earlier.

Well you are expecting the landlord to have had the foresight to save for a rainy day, why not the rest of us. Someone above just said that landlords arent special...yet you want them to be special in this regard.

Funny that.

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 9:28am

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

If it's mortgage free the landlord should do what's right. Now is not the time for profiteering off assets, Many people are basically volunteering to be unemployed at the moment for the greater good. Losing out on a bit of free money because one owns an asset is barely a contribution but would make a huge difference.

If rent only covers 5% of payment on a property it should not be rented, that's terrible business.

Whether they freeze rent or not, some tenants won't be able to pay full rent, its up to the landlord how they deal with it then. Eviction won't be the answer though.

There is zero logic in your answer I'm afraid, all emotion and self interest.

Landlords are ordinary people too yunno.

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 9:29am

Eric_Noon wrote: »

It is not up to tenants to be flush with cash in case of a global epidemic, its up to the government to impliment measures.

This global epidemic is hitting people less than losing their jobs would.
What would they do in the lost job scenario? Continue to blame someone else?

Tacitus Kilgore · 19-03-2020 9:31am

GreeBo wrote: »

This global epidemic is hitting people less than losing their jobs would.
What would they do in the lost job scenario? Continue to blame someone else?

People are losing their jobs en masse due to the global pandemic...

many industries on the brink of collapse...

And it's only the beginning.. What rock are you hiding under?

LuckyLloyd · 19-03-2020 9:36am

GreeBo wrote: »

Are you going to use the same attitude when you do your shopping?
"Sorry Mr Lidl, you are not special so I'm not paying you for this food I'm bringing home"?

If it comes to it, food will be provided for free too. The state is not going to deprive citizens of a roof over their head; of food or any other basic needs during a public health crisis. You know this.

Who are you arguing with here really?

bucketybuck · 19-03-2020 9:41am

DubCount wrote: »

Its also next to impossible to separate the "cant pays" from the "wont pays" so I reckon the holiday will be across the board.

Surprised that this wasn't brought up a lot quicker.

A 3 month rent freeze and I don't have to pay the 3 months back later on? Renters are going to take advantage of that whether they can pay the rent or not, I know I would.

So as stated the devil is really in the detail here, how exactly do people organise this rent freeze? Do they need to prove need?

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 10:13am

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

People are losing their jobs en masse due to the global pandemic... many industries on the brink of collapse...

And it's only the beginning.. What rock are you hiding under?

Other people also losing their job has zero impact on you losing yours.

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 10:15am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If it comes to it, food will be provided for free too. The state is not going to deprive citizens of a roof over their head; of food or any other basic needs during a public health crisis. You know this.

Who are you arguing with here really?

Food *may* be provided by the state, it wont be free to takeaway from whatever shop you choose to go into.

Im arguing with the attitudes that landlords are some sort of demons who should suffer to save others from suffering. Landlords are people, they are not big, bad, faceless corporations.

Tacitus Kilgore · 19-03-2020 10:23am

GreeBo wrote: »

Other people also losing their job has zero impact on you losing yours.

What? What "market" will there be if noone (not literally noone) has any money to spend on rent?

GreeBo wrote: »

Food *may* be provided by the state, it wont be free to takeaway from whatever shop you choose to go into.

Im arguing with the attitudes that landlords are some sort of demons who should suffer to save others from suffering. Landlords are people, they are not big, bad, faceless corporations.

I'm arguing that being a landlord is about to get really shite, just like being an {insert anything here} is about to also.

GreeBo · 19-03-2020 10:26am

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

What? What "market" will there be if noone (not literally noone) has any money to spend on rent?

Other people losing their jobs because of a pandemic doesnt absolve you of having savings for a rainy day. THIS is a rainy day, it just happens to be raining on a lot of people at the same time. Its not a get out of jail free card.

I'm arguing that being a landlord is about to get really shite, just like being an {insert anything here} is about to also.

Ok....thanks for letting us know I guess?

Spencer Winterbotham · 19-03-2020 10:32am

I am a landlord with several properties.

I informed all of my tenants that no rent will be due until further notice.

They won't be able to pay and Landlords need to realize that. Everything is going to the wall and nothing will be the same.

There is just no point in getting into a confrontation with already stressed out tenants.

I am trying to engender as much goodwill as possible with my tenants so if and when society returns to some sort of normality they will not hate me but respect how I have treated them in these hard times and then cooperate with me moving forward.

Nobody is going to be evicted over the next 12 months...Nobody. Where you lie your head tonight is where you will remain for many months to come.

Landlords, (speaking as a fellow landlord)... you need to accept that things are going to change beyond your (and my) current capacity to comprehend.

Treat your tenants with dignity, you will be relying on this goodwill on the other side.

... and remember this... there will be Zero sympathy for landlords on the other side of this... Zero

Be kind... we are all in this together.

19-03-2020 10:36am

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

What? What "market" will there be if noone (not literally noone) has any money to spend on rent?

I'm arguing that being a landlord is about to get really shite, just like being an {insert anything here} is about to also.

I’d argue that it has been really ****e to be a landlord for a number of years, that is why so many have been leaving the sector despite historically high rents.

There is a obvious “time for your comeuppance” attitude in your posts, perhaps that time has arrived. But this time around there are far more “professional” landlords who are likely to make hard business decisions based on spreadsheets. I suppose that was what people wanted when they criticised small time amateur ones.

Also, where are all the tenants going to go? It’s not like emigration is an option at the moment.

19-03-2020 10:40am

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

I am a landlord with several properties.

I informed all of my tenants that no rent will be due until further notice.

They won't be able to pay and Landlords need to realize that. Everything is going to the wall and nothing will be the same.

There is just no point in getting into a confrontation with already stressed out tenants.

I am trying to engender goodwill with my tenants so if and when society returns to some sort of normality they will not hate me but respect how I have treated them in these hard times and then cooperate with me moving forward.

Nobody is going to be evicted over the next 12 months...Nobody. Where you lie your head tonight is where you will remain for many months to come.

Landlords, (speaking as a fellow landlord)... you need to accept that things are going to change beyond your (and my) current capacity to comprehend.

Treat your tenants with dignity, you will be relying on this goodwill on the other side.

... and remember this... there will be Zero sympathy for landlords on the other side of this...

Be kind... we are all in this together.

Many landlords will not be able to sustain long, or even short periods of no rent.

Spencer Winterbotham · 19-03-2020 10:42am

Dav010 wrote: »

Many landlords will not be able to sustain long, or even short periods of no rent.

Neither will I...

Just because I can't sustain it... doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

Accept everything is going to change.

Tacitus Kilgore · 19-03-2020 10:48am

Dav010 wrote: »

I’d argue that it has been really ****e to be a landlord for a number of years, that is why so many have been leaving the sector despite historically high rents.

There is a obvious “time for your comeuppance” attitude in your posts, perhaps that time has arrived. But this time around there are far more “professional” landlords who are likely to make hard business decisions based on spreadsheets. I suppose that was what people wanted when they criticised small time amateur ones.

Also, where are all the tenants going to go? It’s not like emigration is an option at the moment.

It's been even worse to be a tenant tbh, many paying more than 50% of their income on rent, having a ball so they are. Rent prices all down to the "market" - interest rates haven't gone up for property owners - so what actual costs have driven the massive rise of rents in recent years? Demand & shortage of supply? Neither of which are costs.

The tenants aren't going anywhere, noone is - that's been my point throughout the thread.

Zulu · 19-03-2020 11:00am

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

I am a landlord with several properties.

I informed all of my tenants that no rent will be due until further notice.
...
...

Be kind... we are all in this together.

Wow. That's incredible. Literally incredible.
To make such a significant decision,even for those tenants who haven't been impacted by job losses, is amazing. Somewhat foolish, but it's your money to flush.

By the way, can I get some free COVID cash?

Zulu · 19-03-2020 11:01am

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

Neither will I...

Just because I can't sustain it... doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

Accept everything is going to change.

Seems very foolish to fall on your sword so early in this crisis so.
But what do I know! You've several properties so you must be doing something right.

Tacitus Kilgore · 19-03-2020 11:04am

Zulu wrote: »

Wow. That's incredible. Literally incredible.
To make such a significant decision,even for those tenants who haven't been impacted by job losses, is amazing. Somewhat foolish, but it's your money to flush.

By the way, can I get some free COVID cash?

Not everyone is all about money, personally I've accepted I will be financially ruined by this - the deposit I have spent years saving up for a mortgage is now ready to be used to sustain me and anyone else around me who needs it.

Money will come and go, this is the biggest emergency since, well, the emergency.

19-03-2020 11:07am

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It's been even worse to be a tenant tbh, many paying more than 50% of their income on rent, having a ball so they are. Rent prices all down to the "market" - interest rates haven't gone up for property owners - so what actual costs have driven the massive rise of rents in recent years? Demand & shortage of supply? Neither of which are costs.

The tenants aren't going anywhere, noone is - that's been my point throughout the thread.

I would suspect the main drivers are lack of supply, demand, the purchase cost and profit. Few landlords bought properties during the last recession, most bought before, when prices were very high, or after when prices were rising. And I hate to break it to ya kid, but profit is the reason for all businesses.

Look I understand what you are saying, but you can’t magically make thousands of houses appear, and house building is going to come to a halt. So the market will change, but it would be naive to think this is going to be a free-for-all. Negotiation will be necessary, government help will be necessary, but I can assure you the last thing the Government will want on top of this crisis is mass mortgage defaults and banks needing another bailout. So you might think you will be able to sit tight for a year without paying rent, and expecting the LL to sustain the loss and not attempt to evict. We all know there is a crisis, but there has to be some reality as well.

Irish_peppa · 19-03-2020 11:13am

bucketybuck wrote: »

Surprised that this wasn't brought up a lot quicker.

A 3 month rent freeze and I don't have to pay the 3 months back later on? Renters are going to take advantage of that whether they can pay the rent or not, I know I would.

So as stated the devil is really in the detail here, how exactly do people organise this rent freeze? Do they need to prove need?

Wheres the 3 month rent freeze you dont have to pay back? I was under the impression its allmost like a moratorium, call it a Corona Moratorium, dont they just stick the 3 months back onto the bill at the end or later on?

Spencer Winterbotham · 19-03-2020 11:14am

Zulu wrote: »

Seems very foolish to fall on your sword so early in this crisis so.
But what do I know! You've several properties so you must be doing something right.

The only foolish thing a person can do right now is thinking things will get back to normal. They won't.

This will go on for 6 - 18 months... the financial system as we currently know will not survive.

How could it?

A new reality will emerge and it will look nothing like the past.

There are two types of people in the world right now.

People who can see the seriousness of this situation and those with their heads in the sand.

Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

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