Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

J Mysterio wrote: »

I would have liked to have seen Lucas vision borne out. It would have been best if himself and kasdan could have been out together to work on the plot and then had that be reviewed and worked on with whatever director.


Disaster.

George Lucas has a very different vision of where he wanted SW's to go, so to a degree, i'm happy he isn't involved. George intended on Jar Jar being a central figure in the 2nd film of the new trilogy until feedback and fan disgust changed his mind. The guy that voiced the gungan has a draft script sent by Lucas and he said the film was meant to go in a different direction completely with Jar Jar featuring prominently. And not as a Sith lord...<shudder>

J Mysterio wrote: »

I'm still annoyed about what they did with Luke. What a fuçking waste. I was looking forward to some cool Jedi ****, from the master Jedi(!) and what do I get? 'The Jedi are wrong'. FFS. The Jedi was always what was coolest about Star Wars - lightsaber, robes, mind tricks, force push(ing), wisdom.

Disaster.

The Force was the coolest thing about Star Wars, the Jedi were the worst thing about it (at least since the prequel trilogy).

They were a weird cult who took children and brainwashed all personality and humanity out of them, and when they messed up (as such brainwashing is wont to do) they messed up bad (see Anakin turning to the Dark Side). I've longed for a Star Wars character to point out how moronic they are and that a system which teaches people just to be good people and rejects the stupidly simple dichotomy of Light side vs Dark Side would much better. You can name any "dark side" power and a benevolent use could no doubt be described for it, and vice versa.

There's some of this in the extended universe stuff, like Jolee Bindo in the Knights of the Old Republic game, but the movies overall seem to be actively avoiding it, even when some characters touch on it e.g. Luke and Yoda burn the Jedi texts because they aren't important but Rey saves them so they are again? (I wonder was the shot at the end showing the Jedi texts on the Millenium Falcon added in after rest of the movie was finished?)

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The Force was the coolest thing about Star Wars, the Jedi were the worst thing about it (at least since the prequel trilogy).

They were a weird cult who took children and brainwashed all personality and humanity out of them, and when they messed up (as such brainwashing is wont to do) they messed up bad (see Anakin turning to the Dark Side). I've longed for a Star Wars character to point out how moronic they are and that a system which teaches people just to be good people and rejects the stupidly simple dichotomy of Light side vs Dark Side would much better. You can name any "dark side" power and a benevolent use could no doubt be described for it, and vice versa.

There's some of this in the extended universe stuff, like Jolee Bindo in the Knights of the Old Republic game, but the movies overall seem to be actively avoiding it, even when some characters touch on it e.g. Luke and Yoda burn the Jedi texts because they aren't important but Rey saves them so they are again? (I wonder was the shot at the end showing the Jedi texts on the Millenium Falcon added in after rest of the movie was finished?)

The whole point to training them when they were young was so they wouldnt turn into the likes of Vader, training from a young age was to help them control their emotions so they dont have hissy fits and murder kids and take over the universe :rolleyes:

To let people run loose with those kind of powers is a recipe for disaster, the Jedi were to help and keep the peace. Hardly call it evil brainwashing :rolleyes:

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The Force was the coolest thing about Star Wars, the Jedi were the worst thing about it (at least since the prequel trilogy).

These seem to me to be mutually exclusive views. The Jedi are the Force (as are the Sith). If there are no Jedi/ Sith to use the Force, there may as well be no Force.

Also, you don't like the Jedi but your name is Mark Hamill?

J Mysterio wrote: »

These seem to me to be mutually exclusive views. The Jedi are the Force (as are the Sith). If there are no Jedi/ Sith to use the Force, there may as well be no Force.

Also, you don't like the Jedi but your name is Mark Hamill?

The Jedi and Sith are just Force users, but they are not the Force itself, the Force comes from all life:

Mark Hamill wrote: »

If Anakin was taught to control his emotions instead of completely repressing them then he wouldn't have had his hissy fit and turned into Vader. They are exactly like a cult, like on of those pray-the-gay-away camps.

And don't forget EP1, when they tried to use the excuse that at age 8-10 Anakin was too old to be trained to control his emotions in the way they wanted. They seemed perfectly happy to let him leave and run loose, learning who knows what by himself, despite how powerful he had the potential to be.

They are constantly telling him throughout the movies to do just that, there is also years of off screen training he received between Ep1 and 2. He also didnt become unhinged until his mother died and he slaughtered the tusco's. Which he kept to himself, not a fault of the jedi :pac:

Mark Hamill wrote: »

As I said in the next part of my sentence that you just ignored, he wasn't taught to control his emotions, he was taught to repress them entirely.

How do you know that? pretty much all his training is done between movies, all we see are outbursts in the field, and Obi telling him to control his emotions, to not let them get the better of him, at no point are we left with the notion that he is being brain washed or conditioned

Controlling your anger/emotions is something we see in a lot of movies, especially when its like a master training the novice. It's not brain washing, its sound advice :pac:

nix wrote: »

How do you know that?

By his actions and reactions. People who control their emotions still do get angry, they just don't act impulsively on it. People who repress their emotions try not to feel anything at all, at least until thy inevitably explode, which is exactly what happens in the movies.

nix wrote: »

pretty much all his training is done between movies, all we see are outbursts in the field, and Obi telling him to control his emotions, to not let them get the better of him, at no point are we left with the notion that he is being brain washed or conditioned

Controlling your anger/emotions is something we see in a lot of movies, especially when its like a master training the novice. It's not brain washing, its sound advice

And yet the Jedi council don't believe such simple sound advice would work on someone who already 9 years old? And even after 13 years of 1 on 1 training with Obi Wan Kenobi he still hasn't learned what, according to your argument, amounts to "think before you act"?

Forget about the Force and the Jedi for a minute, would you not find it weird if a Martial Art wouldn't take on a child of 9 because they thought the child was too old to learn their philosophy?

Nothing like a bit of loose improvisation to wrap up a "nine part saga"

Goodshape wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of loose improvisation to wrap up a "nine part saga"

+1

Gutted Johnson isnt doing IX

I thought the prequels were shit 10 years ago. I still think they're shit 10 years later, and I'll still think they're shit in another 10 years.

I'm 99.9% sure my opinion on The Last Jedi won't change in my lifetime.

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I went into that film wanting to like it with lots of goodwill :mad:

I thought TFA was only OK - good to see some Star Wars in the cinema, head and shoulders better than the prequels, but painfully unoriginal. It reminded me of Return of the Jedi - no ideas? lets have another attack on another Death Star, that's what worked the first time!

But I really liked Rogue One despite its disjointed first half, so I was willing to believe TLJ could be better than TFA - Luke would be back, the EpIV recycling was done, no reason why this couldn't be good AND original.

So it was a crushing disappointment. I kept my yap shut as we left the cinema in case the kids liked it (they are too young to have seen the prequels at the cinema, so these new movies are their first experience) but they absolutely hated it too.

Wedwood wrote: »

The article merely highlights many people/critics didn't originally know what to make of ESB originally

No, it doesn't.

It's merely a handful of, not so glowing, reports. It doesn't indicate "many" at all.

Wedwood wrote: »

BTW, as someone old enough to remember the original releases,

I'm old enough to remember it too, which is why I know that articles of that type are absolute bollocks. There was no level of vitriol or even disappointment towards 'The Empire Strikes Back' like there is with 'The Last Jedi'. It's not even a small percentage of it.

Sure, there were some folk that didn't like it. But, there are some folk that don't like it today. That's a general thing with films. And there were some folk that were a bit iffy with the open ended nature of a middle act film, who understood its place better after watching 'Return of the Jedi'.

But what there weren't, were folk who just completely lost interest due to how bad they thought the film was, like there is with 'The Last Jedi'. A film which has killed, stone dead, a lot of fans (and casuals) interest in where these sequels are going. And no, they probably won't come round in ten years time either, because there's just too much in 'The Last Jedi' that's, flat out, awful, and it will stay awful. That's not something that can be said about Episode V.

There's simply no comparison to 'The Empire Strikes Back' at all, in any way.

However, if you do want a comparison, you need only to look at the reaction to the prequels, which severely divided audiences. However, in recent times, some former "haters" have come to accept them, if not actually like them. This is, more likely, a possible future for Rian Johnson's effort. It certainly isn't going to be, almost, universally loved. That's for sure.

Really looking forward to this.

filters wrote: »

It will be the case study in years to come, How to kill a franchise by pandering to the vocal minority, and alienating your core fan base.
We all thought the prequels where bad, little did we know what was in store for the series.

I was one of what would likely be called the core Base of fans, and was disappointed with VII and to a lesser extent VIII, but when I seen how much my kids enjoyed them, and got into all the characters and then playing out the films when they were running around the house, it dawned on me that maybe the new films weren't aged at middle aged men?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

My teenagers loved TFA, weren't bothered by the lack of originality since they never saw SW on the big screen before.

They both hated TLJ - bad star wars movie and a bad movie too.

You're right, I got them the wrong way round.
TLJ wasn't good.

leaked poster

Threepio with a bowcaster and bandolier is making me think bullshít. I do like the look of the Knights of Ren though...