Top 10 tips for a high handicapper to reduce their handicap

d2ww · 11-04-2013 5:12pm

"Turn your right shoulder back, left hip forward"
How about that, 8 words.

For Paws · 11-04-2013 5:40pm

In my view the easiest way to save shots is by becoming a better putter.
Putting is the easiest thing to practice too ; you don't need a course or a range, or even a practice green.

Take the time to read your putts, initially by looking at the green as you walk towards it, then from behind hole to ball, then from side on, then from ball to hole. Take one or two practice swings, address ball and concentrate on striking the ball on the same spot each time. This does not necessarily take too much time. 1 putt takes less time than 2, 2 less time than 3.

Practice (at home) will teach you to putt smoothly. Looking at the putt in the manner described above gives your brain all the information it needs to get the ball close. And by close I mean past the hole, never short of it (unless you laying up an uphill 30 footer).

For the other 9 things >>> see PGA Pro

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 5:58pm

John Divney wrote: »

Well to be fair that comes from about two years of cumulative build up looking at my own game, an hour here and there reading, camera work, reading different opinions online.

My thoughts at the start when I came back was, 'I don't know anything apart from head down knees bent, take an inch of sand in a bunker'.

I suppose the point I should be making is it gave me clarity, not confusion, and made things simpler, not more complex, even though it sounds technical, it really wasn't. It gave me confidence to to hit bad shots and that I could recover.

It is purely technical..."which muscles for power?"

also, there is no such thing as "Talent".
IMO you are completely destroying your ability to play by doing all that analysis.

You know what a good swing looks like and you know what a bad swing looks like. Dont do the bad things and try to do the good things.
To be fair, all this technical introspection hasnt exactly worked out for you...why not try to just play the game...after the basics its art, not science at our level.

sodbuster77 · 11-04-2013 6:35pm

The biggest mistakes I see beginners/ high handicappers make is when they follow a bad shot with a bad decision.

I too often see lads knock a drive down into the rough and straight away reach for the 3 wood because they feel they need to make up the distance that's been lost. Getting the ball back into play is the most important thing.

We all hit bad shots and make bad choices no matter what level we play at but if you can limit the amount of bad decisions you make in a round you will score better.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 7:06pm

Greebo, couple of points, I'm delighted with the progress I've made in two and a half eyars, i'm off ten. I would never have broken 18 (in my opinion) if I just kept playing the way you suggest and not understand my own swing and the differing viewpoints of others.

Frankly, 'just do the right thing' is about as much use as saying ';just get better'.

Secondly , about muscle, it was a point I was making about the differing views of pros, and how it is not always the best to go straight to a pro for everyone, and to learn what you believe is correct for you, and makes sense, ie the science behind it and compatability to your natural swing tendancies...

In theory. There are two main golf swing types, and then a possible combination of the two.

The swing v hitter as Homer Kelley described in 'The Golfing Machine, one is the hitter using the right hand dominantly and driving it into the ball, the other is the tension free swinging using centrifugal force for clubhead speed, ie a the golfer pulling down with the lead are drag loading the club with lag, as if pulling a rope to a bell.

Modern researches say there is a combination of both, some disagree blah blah etc

The you have one plane rotary swings with more uprights, very different swings.

I don't go THAT far into it, I' am a swinger in my own mind, ie a tension free swing with no arm muscle us, not forcing the club into the ball but swinging through it, no forced lag

Golf is extremely complex if you want it to be, but it is only simple for very good players who don't need to change to improve.

I may be making assumptions but you are probably a very good golfer and has been for most of the time, therefore no need to really look at things deeply, and have a fear of losing something.

I started with nothing to lose, and got better for it. If you are at 18 and have been for 5 years, you aren't going to get better, fact, unless you look at yourself more closely.

For Paws · 11-04-2013 7:16pm

Lads, there's no single 'correct' way to improve. People think differently, and respond to different methods of teaching differently. Whats causes confusion in one man creates clarity in another.

I have tremendous respect for teachings pros. They have to listen to all the shiite we talk about golf, and what we think is our weakness, when watching us hit a couple of balls will tell them all they need to know about our game.

If I could give only one tip to would be improvers, it's this.

Be honest with yourself. Record your rounds and see where you're weak, and then tell your Pro the truth.

Someday · 11-04-2013 7:20pm

How do you guys track your game, just use the scorecard ? How many putts, fairways hit etc ?

For Paws · 11-04-2013 7:34pm

Someday wrote: »

How do you guys track your game, just use the scorecard ? How many putts, fairways hit etc ?

I mark a spare scorecard with FH (Fairways Hit), GIR, Putts, SS (Sand Saves)
and Club used.

So if i hit Driver on a hole & my drive finishes left of fairway the FH column will have a DL in it. If I hit 3w left, then 3wL. Etc etc etc.

Later I'd work out Percentages for the various categories and decide whether to shoot myself / practice / take up table tennis.

Russman · 11-04-2013 8:10pm

John Divney wrote: »

In theory. There are two main golf swing types, and then a possible combination of the two.

The swing v hitter as Homer Kelley described in 'The Golfing Machine, one is the hitter using the right hand dominantly and driving it into the ball, the other is the tension free swinging using centrifugal force for clubhead speed, ie a the golfer pulling down with the lead are drag loading the club with lag, as if pulling a rope to a bell.

Modern researches say there is a combination of both, some disagree blah blah etc

The you have one plane rotary swings with more uprights, very different swings.

No offence intended, but this ^^^ is horse$h1t !! That doesn't even include Jimmy Ballard's connection method that's shunned by the mainstream coz he won't tow the PGA line. Who cares what modern research says ? Research ?? There's 150 pros on a practice ground each week, all brilliant players and there's also 150 different swings on view. And I guarantee you not one of those players is wondering/deciding if he's a hitter or a swinger.

To each their own, and whatever works for you. Totally up to you whatever way you do it.

Swing shape depends on build, height, weight, flexibility, natural tendency......lots of variables. Look how flat Vijay swings it, and he's 6' 3" or something - totally opposite to what he "should" do, in theory.

You've got yourself to 10, fair play, that's no mean achievement, but it really sounds to me like you're tying yourself up in knots and over complicating things. Maybe that's your natural leaning, fair enough, I'm not trying to be harsh or offend you.

Golf isn't that complicated, think of it like hitting a ball with a stick (I'm serious - there's a lovely chapter in Harvey Pennicks Little Red Book about it). I wish I could think of it that way myself more often !!

Op, I'd recommend a read of Bob Rotella's Golf is not a game of Perfect, the best €15 you'll ever spend on golf IMO.

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 8:39pm

John Divney wrote: »

Greebo, couple of points, I'm delighted with the progress I've made in two and a half eyars, i'm off ten. I would never have broken 18 (in my opinion) if I just kept playing the way you suggest and not understand my own swing and the differing viewpoints of others.

Frankly, 'just do the right thing' is about as much use as saying ';just get better'.

Secondly , about muscle, it was a point I was making about the differing views of pros, and how it is not always the best to go straight to a pro for everyone, and to learn what you believe is correct for you, and makes sense, ie the science behind it and compatability to your natural swing tendancies...

In theory. There are two main golf swing types, and then a possible combination of the two.

The swing v hitter as Homer Kelley described in 'The Golfing Machine, one is the hitter using the right hand dominantly and driving it into the ball, the other is the tension free swinging using centrifugal force for clubhead speed, ie a the golfer pulling down with the lead are drag loading the club with lag, as if pulling a rope to a bell.

Modern researches say there is a combination of both, some disagree blah blah etc

The you have one plane rotary swings with more uprights, very different swings.

I don't go THAT far into it, I' am a swinger in my own mind, ie a tension free swing with no arm muscle us, not forcing the club into the ball but swinging through it, no forced lag

Golf is extremely complex if you want it to be, but it is only simple for very good players who don't need to change to improve.

I may be making assumptions but you are probably a very good golfer and has been for most of the time, therefore no need to really look at things deeply, and have a fear of losing something.

I started with nothing to lose, and got better for it. If you are at 18 and have been for 5 years, you aren't going to get better, fact, unless you look at yourself more closely.

In my mind golf is no more physically demanding than any other sport, and far less than some.
Its no harder to hit a golf ball than it is to hit a tennis ball or a football.
I'm sure you've played other sports, did you think about them the same way you think about golf? I'll bet you didnt, so why are you treating golf differently?
To me it seems like you are trying to find some physically perfect swing so that you dont have to work on your mental part of golf. There is no perfect swing other than Iron Byron, your mind will always get in the way. Thats why its often far easier to react and score a bicycle kick than it is to take a penalty. Every football in the world can physically score a penalty. Every golfer in the world who has sound fundamentals ("their swing/setup looks right") can hit the ball straight.

The rest is all in your head.

/edit
I played off 17 for years and years.
I played multiple times a week and got no better or no worse.
Then I got some lessons and put some effort into short game, course management and incorporating the things the pro told me. These were all small enough things, my swing always looked like a golf swing.
I got to a lowest of 8.1 last year on the basis of the above work.
Sure some of the changes were technical and I had to think about them on the range and the odd time at the course. I still do today, but I never (and more importantly my Pro never) tried to disect my swing into its component parts.
Doing that and expecting to have a natural, fluid swing at the end , to me at least, is like going into a lab and adding the chemical ingredients for lemon meringue pie into a bowl and wondering why it doesnt taste so hot and yet a chef can throw some stuff in a bowl and make it amazing.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 9:01pm

Russman wrote: »

No offence intended, but this ^^^ is horse$h1t !! That doesn't even include Jimmy Ballard's connection method that's shunned by the mainstream coz he won't tow the PGA line. Who cares what modern research says ? Research ?? There's 150 pros on a practice ground each week, all brilliant players and there's also 150 different swings on view. And I guarantee you not one of those players is wondering/deciding if he's a hitter or a swinger.

To each their own, and whatever works for you. Totally up to you whatever way you do it.

Swing shape depends on build, height, weight, flexibility, natural tendency......lots of variables. Look how flat Vijay swings it, and he's 6' 3" or something - totally opposite to what he "should" do, in theory.

You've got yourself to 10, fair play, that's no mean achievement, but it really sounds to me like you're tying yourself up in knots and over complicating things. Maybe that's your natural leaning, fair enough, I'm not trying to be harsh or offend you.

Golf isn't that complicated, think of it like hitting a ball with a stick (I'm serious - there's a lovely chapter in Harvey Pennicks Little Red Book about it). I wish I could think of it that way myself more often !!

Op, I'd recommend a read of Bob Rotella's Golf is not a game of Perfect, the best €15 you'll ever spend on golf IMO.

What part is bull****, trying to understand all points of view and deciding what best suits you? You basically are agreeing with me here.

As for modern research, the way Nicklaus et al swung, led them to smashing out their hips, that flowing C position at the end of the swing is out of vogue, even hearing diffreing points of view on how to pivot and not smash out your hip or knee is valuable.

I found that the weight is far better for balance when joints are neutrally alligned, that is the same stance for all clubs, I don't move my hip out over neutral on the downswing or after after impact, I pivot with my hips towards target after impact and am balanced, no turning pressure on my knee bending ways it shoudln't.

That was simply from looking around the net at different theories, I am convinced it is the proper way. Swing theory is more than the movement of club to ball,

If there isn't anything to learn then why even go to a pro in the first place?

I do not complicate my swing, at all, I simply found what I believed to be correct for me after looking through a lot, and from stance with to ball position to plane. It is hard to get to a point where you have grooved a swing for yourself, but you DO NOT take all that thought out on the course with you.
Nobody improves if they aren't able to relax on the tee and let the practice be
of use.

If you have a good swing don't change it. If you clearly have a God awful swing, you have to change it, that is where a bit of research comes in.

Telling someone to swing like a stick to a ball, or do the right thing is a waste of time because they don't know in their mind what they think is correct, so cannot make an improvement to that

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 9:28pm

John Divney wrote: »

What part is bull****, trying to understand all points of view and deciding what best suits you? You basically are agreeing with me here.

As for modern research, the way Nicklaus et al swung, led them to smashing out their hips, that flowing C position at the end of the swing is out of vogue, even hearing diffreing points of view on how to pivot and not smash out your hip or knee is valuable.

I found that the weight is far better for balance when joints are neutrally alligned, that is the same stance for all clubs, I don't move my hip out over neutral on the downswing or after after impact, I pivot with my hips towards target after impact and am balanced, no turning pressure on my knee bending ways it shoudln't.

That was simply from looking around the net at different theories, I am convinced it is the proper way. Swing theory is more than the movement of club to ball,

If there isn't anything to learn then why even go to a pro in the first place?

I do not complicate my swing, at all, I simply found what I believed to be correct for me after looking through a lot, and from stance with to ball position to plane. It is hard to get to a point where you have grooved a swing for yourself, but you DO NOT take all that thought out on the course with you.
Nobody improves if they aren't able to relax on the tee and let the practice be
of use.

If you have a good swing don't change it. If you clearly have a God awful swing, you have to change it, that is where a bit of research comes in.

Telling someone to swing like a stick to a ball, or do the right thing is a waste of time because they don't know in their mind what they think is correct, so cannot make an improvement to that

Those bolded bits would seem to be pretty contradictory...
The last point I will make is that I dont know a single successful amateur golfer who thinks the way you do, and all the modern literature promotes thinking in the exact opposite way.

All the best to you, but I personally think thats terrible advice to give a high handicap golfer.

soundsham · 11-04-2013 9:34pm

stop playing with no hope and dont care hackers

John Divney · 11-04-2013 9:52pm

I'll explan better. I believe the weight at setup should be just forward of your ankles, not on the balls of feet. For balance and not knackering out your knee and hips.

Your stance width is determined by your pelvis with, nothing to do with shoulders.

So a correct and neutral stance would have your knee stacked below your hip socket, then your knee stacked over your ankle where the weight is. this is called neutral joint allignemet and based on anatomical logic.

As for amatuers, read a golf message board and look at the handicaps and look at the discusions.

As for succesful amateurs, look at the coaches they use, they buy into it, literally, spending thousands on coaches. Look at Stack and tilt, One plane Gurus, Two plane Gurus, Jim Hardy

They all don't go down to the local PGA pro because they probably know exactly what he's going to say, they look for coaches that do what they believe.

That is oN TOP of them being naturally more talented than you or I will ever be.

Tiger Woods changed his swing three times, he's one of the best natural players ever, and trains as hard as any other golfer.

You essentially agree with me, you improved by going to an expert, stuck to his drills and improved.

I simply looked at what I believed was right, would suit me, and after over six months was settled.

I didn't complicate anything, my swing thought is not long, in fact it's vacant on the course, I just try and let it happen.

I'm not advocating changing every year, I'm saying do the research once, and then tweek along the way when problems crop up,, as they always will in golf.

FixdePitchmark · 11-04-2013 10:01pm

John Divney wrote: »

I'll explan better. I believe the weight at setup should be just forward of your ankles, not on the balls of feet. For balance and not knackering out your knee and hips.

Your stance width is determined by your pelvis with, nothing to do with shoulders.

So a correct and neutral stance would have your knee stacked below your hip socket, then your knee stacked over your ankle where the weight is. this is called neutral joint allignemet and based on anatomical logic.

As for amatuers, read a golf message board and look at the handicaps and look at the discusions.

As for succesful amateurs, look at the coaches they use, they buy into it, literally, spending thousands on coaches. Look at Stack and tilt, One plane Gurus, Two plane Gurus, Jim Hardy

They all don't go down to the local PGA pro because they probably know exactly what he's going to say, they look for coaches that do what they believe.

That is oN TOP of them being naturally more talented than you or I will ever be.

Tiger Woods changed his swing three times, he's one of the best natural players ever, and trains as hard as any other golfer.

You essentially agree with me, you improved by going to an expert, stuck to his drills and improved.

I simply looked at what I believed was right, would suit me, and after over six months was settled.

I didn't complicate anything, my swing thought is not long, in fact it's vacant on the course, I just try and let it happen.

I'm not advocating changing every year, I'm saying do the research once, and then tweek along the way when problems crop up,, as they always will in golf.

John - fair play you made your point.

But he is looking for a top ten. Not Leonardo's Codex.

downwesht · 11-04-2013 10:05pm

Don't over analyze!

Find out how far you ACTUALLY hit each club on your average swing,ie if you hit a 5 iron 140 yards thats what you hit.......just because your playing partners can hit it further doesn't matter a jot, it's how far YOU can hit it that matters.

Practice your putting,use the same type of ball every round.Consistency can only come by using the same ball all the time.

Relax and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad round, don't get ahead of yourself if you have a good score going,play one hole at a time!
ENJOY!

coolhandspan · 11-04-2013 10:09pm

hit ball then turf, check divot to make sure contact with ground is in front of ball position. best tip I have..

John Divney · 11-04-2013 10:22pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

John - fair play you made your point.

But he is looking for a top ten. Not Leonardo's Codex.

Sorry, I never usually talk about this stuff on or off the course so the tap opened. I'm a reader usually not a waffler.:(

FixdePitchmark · 11-04-2013 10:23pm

John Divney wrote: »

Sorry, I never usually talk about this stuff on or off the course so really the tap opened. I'm a reader usually not a waffler.:(

Don't worry GreeBo can do that to ya,

Someday · 11-04-2013 11:02pm

downwesht wrote: »

Don't over analyze!

Find out how far you ACTUALLY hit each club on your average swing,ie if you hit a 5 iron 140 yards thats what you hit.......just because your playing partners can hit it further doesn't matter a jot, it's how far YOU can hit it that matters.

Practice your putting,use the same type of ball every round.Consistency can only come by using the same ball all the time.

Relax and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad round, don't get ahead of yourself if you have a good score going,play one hole at a time!
ENJOY!

Same ball, even for a high handicap guy ?

Someday · 11-04-2013 11:17pm

Another thing is that no one mentioned equipment !

DeanAustin · 11-04-2013 11:45pm

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

1) Show up earlier.
So many high guys either arrive minutes before the tee time and think they can play having rushed to the tee.

This, this, this. A few years back I had my name on the timesheet for a scratch cup in Wicklow. Arrived on the tee as my playing partners were hitting off. Stood up and smashed a three wood down the middle of the fairway. Beautiful swing, smashing connection, couldn't have been better. Rushed to get my bits and bobs sorted and pegged it down the fairway.

Second shot...shank into the sea. I never shank the ball. Drop. Shank. Drop. Shank. I took a 13 and my day was done. Like I say, I never shank the ball but I hit three that day. One after the other. It was all because of my poor preparation.

In terms of tips from me:
1. Turn up early and practice.
2. If you're rubbish with a driver, don't use it. It's not worth the trouble you'll find.
3. Take your medicine when you hit bad shots. Don't be a hero.
4. Work on your short game.
5. Don't clog your head with mechanics. I do it and it doesn't work.
6. Learn to accept f**k ups and move on. 4 hours is a long time to carry a mistake.
7. Try not to three putt or take 4 shots with a wedge in your hand.

Danny dyers double · 12-04-2013 8:59am

Great thread . Iv been playing a year myself and I do love the sport but its killing that I'm not getting any better . Don't get me wrong iv improved a lot since I first picked up a club and have had some good rounds playing off 28 but last few weeks I really feel backwards .

Only this week I actually learned where my hands should be ( before ball on impact ) and learned about hitting down and not sweeping ball . Went the driving range midweek to practice this . Total disaster but ill stick with it .

Going to book lesson for Saturday morning so hopefully with some coaching and lots of practice ill start to enjoy the game I love .

Loire · 12-04-2013 9:43am

sodbuster77 wrote: »

The biggest mistakes I see beginners/ high handicappers make is when they follow a bad shot with a bad decision.

Big Plus One to this!

Also, for anyone playing 18+ handicap, get good at those 30-50 yard shots, ie being able to hit it on the green (any part of it). That way, if the driver is acting up or you're playing a tight hole, a rescue off the tee followed by a 7 iron should leave you inside 50 yards where you'll knock it on, take 2 putts and walk off with either 2 or 3 points.

blue note · 12-04-2013 11:09am

I like to analyse where I dropped the shots after a round. Whatever part of your game is costing you the most shots you need to work on. I play off 16 and am probably quite a typical 16 handicapper, so generally shoot just over 90 shots. After my round I usually find that I dropped 3 or 4 shots through wayward driving and 6 or 7 through putting (3 putts, missing from 2-3 feet). Other than that, sometimes I'll drop one from not getting out of a bunker, a couple from bad irons, a couple from mi**** shots, sometimes one or two from stupid decisions. After subtracting my bad shots I still reckon I should be 6 or 7 over par - sometimes a bogey is a decent score.

Typically, I'd recommend practicing your short game and keeping your drives in play.

Miley Byrne · 12-04-2013 12:01pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Its no harder to hit a golf ball than it is to hit a tennis ball or a football.

Whatever about anything else that has been said ^^^^^^^ is ridiculous

spacecoyote · 12-04-2013 12:17pm

Danny dyers double wrote: »

Great thread . Iv been playing a year myself and I do love the sport but its killing that I'm not getting any better . Don't get me wrong iv improved a lot since I first picked up a club and have had some good rounds playing off 28 but last few weeks I really feel backwards .

Only this week I actually learned where my hands should be ( before ball on impact ) and learned about hitting down and not sweeping ball . Went the driving range midweek to practice this . Total disaster but ill stick with it .

Going to book lesson for Saturday morning so hopefully with some coaching and lots of practice ill start to enjoy the game I love .

Just to clarify, you should be doing this with your irons only. You want to sweep away the woods

alxmorgan · 12-04-2013 12:50pm

denisoc16 wrote: »

GreeBo wrote: »

Its no harder to hit a golf ball than it is to hit a tennis ball or a football.

Whatever about anything else that has been said ^^^^^^^ is ridiculous

I've gotta side with denis here Greebo
The reason golf is harder I think is that the ball is stationary and you have time to think about everything.
We perform best when we react on instinct and fast moving games such as tennis and soccer facilitate this. Golf is the opposite and gives you too much time to think about things (swing thoughts, last hole, next hole, score etc etc)

I think its why you can hit very good shots at the range when just raking and hitting balls. Apart from the grooving aspect you think less and your central nervous system gets into reactive mode

PARlance · 12-04-2013 1:09pm

alxmorgan wrote: »

I've gotta side with denis here Greebo
The reason golf is harder I think is that the ball is stationary and you have time to think about everything.
We perform best when we react on instinct and fast moving games such as tennis and soccer facilitate this. Golf is the opposite and gives you too much time to think about things (swing thoughts, last hole, next hole, score etc etc)

I think its why you can hit very good shots at the range when just raking and hitting balls. Apart from the grooving aspect you think less and your central nervous system gets into reactive mode

Just to give Greebo a get out off jail card...
I think golf is like a penalty shoot out.

12-04-2013 1:16pm

alxmorgan wrote: »

I've gotta side with denis here Greebo
The reason golf is harder I think is that the ball is stationary and you have time to think about everything.
We perform best when we react on instinct and fast moving games such as tennis and soccer facilitate this. Golf is the opposite and gives you too much time to think about things (swing thoughts, last hole, next hole, score etc etc)

I think its why you can hit very good shots at the range when just raking and hitting balls. Apart from the grooving aspect you think less and your central nervous system gets into reactive mode

there is some truth in this but try playing tennis with a golf ball and a 7 iron and you'll soon realise it's not the only difference.

some advice that has worked for me:

forget distance. distance is completely irrelevant for a beginner. as a consequence:

shorten the swing. ignore the pros and other (good golfers) who get the shaft pointing at the target. it's not a practical objective for a beginner. think of back 90 degrees and momentum, natural wrist cock will do the rest.
don't hit the ball. hard to avoid but all the 'faults' usually stem from trying to hit it. keep it easy.
develop and ultra economical and repeatable swing that will get the ball away and in play off the tee. not hard to do at all.

and then putting and short game practice. nothing original about that observation.

Top 10 tips for a high handicapper to reduce their handicap

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