Top 10 tips for a high handicapper to reduce their handicap

Someday · 10-04-2013 11:34pm #1

What would you advise ? List 10 !

Creasy_bear · 10-04-2013 11:51pm

Practice your chipping/pitching & putting x 10

Pappa Charlie · 10-04-2013 11:59pm

Play to your real handicap!!!

FixdePitchmark · 11-04-2013 12:43am

1) You are not as good as you think
2) Don't fool yourself that you have practiced
3) Practice ( this can be over 3 hours in one go)
4) Love your short game shots, get weight over to LHS, hit ball first - it is a hobby not life and death.
5) Get a lesson - pay for 5 if you have to - get the right person - do research.
6) Practice the right things as explained by a good pro
7) loose on grip for all short game - get your grip right as confirmed by pro, get grip right.
8) Don't aim at the flag all the time. Know the shot you can make 7/10 times.
9) Be willing to get worse for 3 to 6 months
10) Practice the parts of the game you do not like.

And after all that - I'm still only getting close to single figures - so try harder than me.

I still fail on number 10. and 8.

Man on Fire · 11-04-2013 12:52am

someday what is ur handicap??

Batman101 · 11-04-2013 12:54am

I had a similar experience. Two years ago I was play off 14, now I am currently playing off 7. There are a number a reasons why I reduced my handicap. Firstly, I started to understand more about the dynamics behind golf.By this I mean that I tried to learn the right way to swing the golf club. I wanted to try and understand why I wasn't hitting the ball straight. I was able to figure out that at impact my club face was open and therefore I kept slicing the ball. I found out I was swinging too fast also. I just slowed down my swing and concentrated on a clean strike.
So when I found out the reasons why I wasn't hitting the ball where I wanted too I was able to fix these problems. I spent a number of evenings on the range which made a huge difference. I felt very comfortable with my swing and also gained confidence.

However, I believe the most important factor in reducing your handicap is what you do around the greens. Been able to chip and putt well reduces a number of shots from your score every round. Its all down to PRACTICE!! Some people give out when they hit a bad chip, but how can they expect to hit it stone dead when they don't even know where the practice green is?

One other thing is to try and limit the amount of double bogeys. You must realise that you can afford to have 14 bogeys and 4 pars and you would have 36 points.

Best of Luck!

Senna · 11-04-2013 1:02am

If faced with a chip, don't automatically go for a wedge, your 7 iron to 9 iron are much more consistence for bump and runs. Don't try and chip it to the pin, try and get the ball running towards the hole.

Go to the practice green for 15 minutes and practice putting before every round.

Daithio12 · 11-04-2013 2:44am

Lessons x10 preferably with the same pro.

kkelliher · 11-04-2013 7:25am

Slow the f**k down when swinging the club, you dont need to burst the ball

Loire · 11-04-2013 9:17am

Something I've started recently: when you get home after golf, bring the putter into the house. Put 2 blocks of wood parallel to each other about a 1/2 wider than the putter (beyond the ball, as some people like an arch in their backswing) and just practice hitting putts "through the gate". This should help putting from the center of the putter in a straight line.

I'd also agree with Fixed....love the short game, ie when you have a delicate chip or a big breaking putt, tell yourself this is what it's all about and have a confident go at it.

Loire · 11-04-2013 9:19am

Another one....master the basic chip and run from off the green and also master the basic bunker shot - I see a lot of higher handicappers who are going fine in a round take 3 or more shots in a single bunker scratching the hole and playing crap afterwards.

Mr. Larson · 11-04-2013 10:17am

If you improve your short game as everyone has already stated, it will take the pressure off your long game too. You will be more inclined to lay-up or avoid the hero shot knowing you can at least get down in 3 from inside 50yds. Speaking from my own experience, if you have a suspect short game, you are more likely to force getting it to the green in regulation, taking on a risky club with your approach or trying to bust out a driver on a long Par 4 as there are potentially another '4' shots that will be used up around the green.

Course Management is another huge factor. Sometimes the smart play is to aim away from the pin. Try to document each round and where you have incurred the most wasted shots and that will help you focus your attention on what you need to work on.

Don't think about the mechanics or technique when playing. For driving, pick a small target, focus only on the target and visualise the ball going there as you make your swing. Don't ever think about stuff such as how far you need to turn your hips/shoulders, when to break wrists etc. etc. as that is fatal. It takes a bit of a leap of faith but if you trust your body and brain know how to swing and you just worry about alignment pre-swing and target during swing. Same for short game, if you're a bit twitchy you need to hand over the chips/pitches to your subconscious (which is a far better golfer than you are). Practice strokes looking at the target, visualise where the ball will land and how it will react, then address the ball and let your subconscious take care of the execution of the shot. Again, leap of faith required.

Mr. Larson · 11-04-2013 10:22am

Loire wrote: »

Another one....master the basic chip and run from off the green and also master the basic bunker shot - I see a lot of higher handicappers who are going fine in a round take 3 or more shots in a single bunker scratching the hole and playing crap afterwards.

+1 and watch what good and bad golfers do when they hit it into trouble. Note that (a) the good ones also hit bad shots from time to time and (b) they rarely go for the narrow gap through the trees to squeeze that extra 15yds and probably end up with a comfortable Bogey having taken their medicine. Watch how the high handicapper will often do the opposite and take 3 out of the trees and is out of the hole before (s)he gets to the green.

death1234567 · 11-04-2013 10:45am

1. Get lessons
2. Don't revert back to your old style if you get worse
3. Don't listen to friends/your own ideas about what wrong with your swing. Only listen to the advice from your instructor
4. Take at least one club bigger than you think you need.
5. Remember that you can't drive the ball 250 yards
6. Don't let bad shots get you down, focus on the good ones.
7. Don't be scared to try things like drawing/fading the ball. If you slice alot then learning to draw can help fix it.
8. Practice. If your not playing at least 18 holes a week then your not going to improve
9. Be patient, it could take a full season to take 2 shots off your handicap
10. Enjoy it. Golf is meant to be fun, not a chore.

DeanAustin · 11-04-2013 10:48am

Two words - magic pencil.

Someday · 11-04-2013 10:49am

I am off 24 but this was a good discussion and I didn't see a thread on it already, I have only started on full courses late last year.

I am not playing off this but making progress

Russman · 11-04-2013 10:55am

Practise the short game, and ALWAYS with a target. No hitting pitches/chips into an open field. Don't practice putting unless you're actually holing out, no blindly rolling the ball on a green.

When you're finished with short game practice, go practice the short game.

That and a few lessons to review your fundamentals, grip, stance set-up etc.

Ohh yeah, and hit the shot YOU can hit, not the shot Rory would hit.

Man on Fire · 11-04-2013 10:58am

think il hit the golf course with all these tips... i myself have a high handicap, only took up golf last summer...
im goin to get lessons in the spawell of your 1 kavanagh..
i hear she is very good

spacecoyote · 11-04-2013 2:00pm

Yeah, as per everyone else, get your short game working and you're most of the way there.

My number 1 tip is get a couple of lessons though, and be committed to sticking with it.

Other than that, stop thinking about par golf. If you're playing off 26, 36 points is 98 strokes on a par 72 course, so if you want to shoot par you need to hit 8 Double Bogies & 10 Bogies (ie, you don't need to make a single par in a round to beat your handicap). If you can think of the course in that way, it sounds much easier and more manageable to shoot a good score. So don't be afraid to take your medicine rather than go hell for leather trying to hit that miracle shot when you're buried in the rough. Knock the ball out and get back in play, you're going to have a stoke or 2 on every hole.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 2:43pm

1. Research swing theory, there are many ways to swing a club, they all have their own principles, research a swing theory thoroughly and learn from the one you believe to be a) Correct from a physics, and biomechanical perspective.,

Fits you more naturally.

2. Buy a high speed video recorder, over new clubs and lessons, to me anyway, more important if you know what you believe you need to do to improve, the camera will help you.

3. The basics in golf don't change, you need a weightshift before the dowswing, and you need the club to come back on plane for a relatively accurate shot. Squaring the before impact is the key to straight shots, square the club early in the downswing, you should learn to know where the clubhead faces at every point in the downswing, that takes time and lots of work with learning feedback with mirrir, cameras.

Divot after the ball always.

3. Driver, wedge and putter are the most important clubs in your bag to reduce your handicap.

Be accurate with those three and you can scutter every ball in between and drop your index. Forget about being long off the tee, most amateurs aren't, Accept your limitations.

4. Wasting time blasting balls with no purpose or goal, is never going to help you. There's always something to work on, and always a way to do it, a theory behind it, and feedback and
acting on that feedback is the only way to improve.

Use your high speed camera.

5. Oh yeah, learn the ball flight laws, as provided by Trackman.

DeanAustin · 11-04-2013 2:47pm

John Divney wrote: »

1. Research swing theory, there are many ways to swing a club, they all have their own principles, research a swing theory thoroughly and learn from the one you believe to be a) Correct from a physics, and biomechanical perspective., Fits you more naturally.

2. Buy a high speed video recorder, over new clubs and lessons, to me anyway, more important if you know what you believe you need to do to improve, the camera will help you.

3. The basics in golf don't change, you need a weightshift before the dowswing, and you need the club to come back on plane for a relatively accurate shot. Squaring the before impact is the key to straight shots, square the club early in the downswing, you should learn to know where the clubhead faces at every point in the downswing, that takes time and lots of work with learning feedback with mirrir, cameras.

Divot after the ball always.

3. Driver, wedge and putter are the most important clubs in your bag to reduce your handicap.

Be accurate with those three and you can scutter every ball in between and drop your index. Forget about being long off the tee, most amateurs aren't, Accept your limitations.

4. Wasting time blasting balls with no purpose or goal, is never going to help you. There's always something to work on, and always a way to do it, a theory behind it, and feedback and
acting on that feedback is the only way to improve.

Use your high speed camera.

Just throwing this out there for the sake of debate but is some of this potentially over complicating the game?

A lot of this may be relevant for players playing at a very good level but for high handicappers, is stuff like researching swing theories just going to clog their brain with swing thoughts?

ShriekingSheet · 11-04-2013 2:55pm

1) Show up earlier.
So many high guys either arrive minutes before the tee time and think they can play having rushed to the tee. Or they arrive in plenty of time, but spend the time chatting etc. Either way, the first swing they make all day is the practice one while the ball is tee'd up. You can't play golf like that. Even just 10 mins of rolling a few practice putts and swishing a few practice swings before heading to the tee will have your shoulders looser and your head in some kind of state of readiness to play and score.

2) Don't aim straight down the fairway or at the middle of the green.
The vast majority of all players, especially high guys, do not hit a straight ball. It's even pretty futile to try, for most of us. If your Sunday best goes straight, your average shot drifts right, and your bad shot is a slice, aiming at the middle of the fairway gives you 50% of the fairway as a margin for error.
Aim up the left! The odd straight ball is fine, left edge or barely in the rough. Slight cut is perfect, slice is still ok on right side or rough. Only hook, pull or huge slice are any kind of trouble.Get used to using the shape you naturally hit the ball - forget about trying for the perfect straight shot. Work with what you have!

ShriekingSheet · 11-04-2013 2:56pm

John Divney wrote: »

1. Research swing theory, there are many ways to swing a club, they all have their own principles, research a swing theory thoroughly and learn from the one you believe to be a) Correct from a physics, and biomechanical perspective., Fits you more naturally.

2. Buy a high speed video recorder, over new clubs and lessons, to me anyway, more important if you know what you believe you need to do to improve, the camera will help you.

3. The basics in golf don't change, you need a weightshift before the dowswing, and you need the club to come back on plane for a relatively accurate shot. Squaring the before impact is the key to straight shots, square the club early in the downswing, you should learn to know where the clubhead faces at every point in the downswing, that takes time and lots of work with learning feedback with mirrir, cameras.

Divot after the ball always.

3. Driver, wedge and putter are the most important clubs in your bag to reduce your handicap.

Be accurate with those three and you can scutter every ball in between and drop your index. Forget about being long off the tee, most amateurs aren't, Accept your limitations.

4. Wasting time blasting balls with no purpose or goal, is never going to help you. There's always something to work on, and always a way to do it, a theory behind it, and feedback and
acting on that feedback is the only way to improve.

Use your high speed camera.

5. Oh yeah, learn the ball flight laws, as provided by Trackman.

DeanAustin wrote: »

Just throwing this out there for the sake of debate but is some of this potentially over complicating the game?

A lot of this may be relevant for players playing at a very good level but for high handicappers, is stuff like researching swing theories just going to clog their brain with swing thoughts?

+1 Dean.

John, that's absolutely bananas.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 2:56pm

Well I wanted to know why I was terrible, I think you have to put in the time at the beginning so you truly believe what you are doing is correct for you. Going to a pro doesn't solve that in my opinion.

I got a card at 24, and went to ten in two years, I don't play near as much now, but because I'm not talented, (My two brothers are both under 10 and are naturally talented, don't analyse their game at all)

For me, if you are talented, you don't stay high for long, if you are not, you need to know why to even begin getting better. PLaying a lot of golf doesn't mean you will get better.

It's a journey, more about yourself than anything like the handicap coming down. I'm lucky that there is a filed out the back where I can pop out before dusk, I don't go to the range anymore because the mats provide no feedback.

Us hackers need to stay on it, there is a monkey on our backs, we are not naturally good, he never goes away.

Russman · 11-04-2013 3:05pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

Just throwing this out there for the sake of debate but is some of this potentially over complicating the game?

A lot of this may be relevant for players playing at a very good level but for high handicappers, is stuff like researching swing theories just going to clog their brain with swing thoughts?

For the sake of debate....

Possibly/probably. Personally, for a beginner, I'd say they don't need to be thinking about swing theories until they're somewhat competent at ball striking (if they ever need to think about them at all). I don't really think you can "build" a swing, I used to, but now I think you get your fundamentals right and whatever motion you make will be peculiar to yourself, obviously within some basic parameters of course.

The best players don't worry about theories, they try to find a way to make the game as simple as they can, for them. There are no real secrets to be honest, broadly speaking most teachers teach the same stuff, its just communicated differently and the trick is finding a teacher you "get".

I guess it depends on what sort of mindset a player has and what way their brain works. Some react more to technical stuff, some more to "feel". Is golf an art or a science ? or both ?:)

Russman · 11-04-2013 3:12pm

John Divney wrote: »

Well I wanted to know why I was terrible, I think you have to put in the time at the beginning so you truly believe what you are doing is correct for you. Going to a pro doesn't solve that in my opinion.

I got a card at 24, and went to ten in two years, I don't play near as much now, but because I'm not talented, (My two brothers are both under 10 and are naturally talented, don't analyse their game at all)

For me, if you are talented, you don't stay high for long, if you are not, you need to know why to even begin getting better. PLaying a lot of golf doesn't mean you will get better.

It's a journey, more about yourself than anything like the handicap coming down. I'm lucky that there is a filed out the back where I can pop out before dusk, I don't go to the range anymore because the mats provide no feedback.

Us hackers need to stay on it, there is a monkey on our backs, we are not naturally good, he never goes away.

Perhaps, with the greatest of respect, you're over analysing your game/swing and that's why you're not as good as your brothers ?
If you could play to 10 then you're well capable of getting lower in my opinion. Not a whole lot of difference between a 10 and a 6 other than picking better shots at the right time and sharpening up the short game, lower than 6 gets a bit trickier.

My own brother in law is a good example, he's only beginning, is mad keen and could probably play to his 24 h/cap on occasion. He can hit plenty of good shots though but is always asking "did I do it right on that one ?" without looking at the ball flight to see where its gone.
His particular natural mindset is that the swing is a bit like a spreadsheet, where X plus Y plus Z equals a good swing equals a good shot. I'm trying to get him to realise that golf isn't like that.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 3:26pm

Russman wrote: »

Perhaps, with the greatest of respect, you're over analysing your game/swing and that's why you're not as good as your brothers ?

My own brother in law is a good example, he's only beginning, is mad keen and could probably play to his 24 h/cap on occasion. He can hit plenty of good shots though but is always asking "did I do it right on that one ?" without looking at the ball flight to see where its gone.
His particular natural mindset is that the swing is a bit like a spreadsheet, where X plus Y plus Z equals a good swing equals a good shot. I'm trying to get him to realise that golf isn't like that.

I would agree some people do over analyse, however for me it was the only reason I still play.

I played a lot as a teen, not very good, no handicap just form fun with brothers, dad and mates. When I played well I couldn't tell you why, I couldn't tell you why I was garbage for the most part.

So when I came back to golf mid 20's, I said I was going to give it a shot at improving I wasn't really a beginner as such, most high hc'ers aren't they are lifers lol.

That's why imo, you have to know whatis right for you, I'd never ask anybody why I'm doing this or that, I know the second I hit the ball. That is invaluable feedback .

For total beginners it's different, as i say, most amateurs get no better after two years, for high handicappers tend to stay there.

You don't learn in an overcomplicated way, it's a slow process of ingraining movement until they are second nature. I don't have a busy swingthought at all, and am feeling my way around the course rather than mechanically swinging.

When I lose it a bit I know my reference point and can get back and steady a round, or well could, haven't played a lot this year or back end of last.

SEORG · 11-04-2013 3:46pm

Think I'd go for lessons over the high speed video recorder.

I'd rather someone who is a professional & knows what they are talking about analyse my swing.

If you want to record your swing use your phone, and upload the video to here http://swingfix.golfchannel.com/

John Divney · 11-04-2013 4:29pm

Between three pros, asking them questions like,

Where should the ball lie in my stance?

How wide should my stance be?

Where does my weight lie on my feet?

Should I move my hips as fast as I can?

What causes a draw or a fade?

Do I swing with my body and keep arms passive?

Do I keep my shoulders quite and swing with my arms?

What muscles if any do I use on the downswing?

Do I use my right and left arms for speed?

Where does speed come from?

Should I be one or two plane?

What is one and two plane?

HOW do I shift my weight? (Alone this is a science onto itslelf, what muscles are used, etc.)

What putting technique do you use?

Pros don't have access to any more information than is out there, they are just better at implementing whatever they tried in their game as they are natural talents.

You will get a load of different answers from one pro to the next, that's why I wanted to find out I believed in an objective way when i got back into it.

To me a good pro gets you to implement the things you already know, but aren't talented enough to just do it right away. Takes ages to train the brain.

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 4:33pm

John Divney wrote: »

Between three pros, asking them questions like,

Where should the ball lie in my stance?

How wide should my stance be?

Where does my weight lie on my feet?

Should I move my hips as fast as I can?

What causes a draw or a fade?

Do I swing with my body and keep arms passive?

Do I keep my shoulders quite and swing with my arms?

What muscles if any do I use on the downswing?

Do I use my right and left arms for speed?

Where does speed come from?

Should I be one or two plane?

What is one and two plane?

HOW do I shift my weight? (Alone this is a science onto itslelf, what muscles are used, etc.)

What putting technique do you use?

Pros don't have access to any more information than is out there, they are just better at implementing whatever they tried in their game as they are natural talents.

You will get a load of different answers from one pro to the next, that's why I wanted to find out I believed in an objective way when i got back into it.

To me a good pro gets you to implement the things you already know, but aren't talented enough to just do it right away. Takes ages to train the brain.

I think if you even have those sorts of questions in your head you have gone too technical.
"Which muscles on the downswing?"

I learned by trying to mimic the swings I saw on tv. If it didnt look like that I changed it.
After that its tweaking based on reacting to what/where the ball is doing/going.
More recently by complimenting that with some lessons from a Pro.

(I often look at some swings and wonder has that person ever seen their own swing...and if not why not...and if so...why do you still swing like that?!)

John Divney · 11-04-2013 4:53pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I think if you even have those sorts of questions in your head you have gone too technical.
"Which muscles on the downswing?"

I learned by trying to mimic the swings I saw on tv. If it didnt look like that I changed it.
After that its tweaking based on reacting to what/where the ball is doing/going.
More recently by complimenting that with some lessons from a Pro.

(I often look at some swings and wonder has that person ever seen their own swing...and if not why not...and if so...why do you still swing like that?!)

Well to be fair that comes from about two years of cumulative build up looking at my own game, an hour here and there reading, camera work, reading different opinions online.

My thoughts at the start when I came back was, 'I don't know anything apart from head down knees bent, take an inch of sand in a bunker'.

I suppose the point I should be making is it gave me clarity, not confusion, and made things simpler, not more complex, even though it sounds technical, it really wasn't. It gave me confidence to to hit bad shots and that I could recover.

d2ww · 11-04-2013 5:12pm

"Turn your right shoulder back, left hip forward"
How about that, 8 words.

For Paws · 11-04-2013 5:40pm

In my view the easiest way to save shots is by becoming a better putter.
Putting is the easiest thing to practice too ; you don't need a course or a range, or even a practice green.

Take the time to read your putts, initially by looking at the green as you walk towards it, then from behind hole to ball, then from side on, then from ball to hole. Take one or two practice swings, address ball and concentrate on striking the ball on the same spot each time. This does not necessarily take too much time. 1 putt takes less time than 2, 2 less time than 3.

Practice (at home) will teach you to putt smoothly. Looking at the putt in the manner described above gives your brain all the information it needs to get the ball close. And by close I mean past the hole, never short of it (unless you laying up an uphill 30 footer).

For the other 9 things >>> see PGA Pro

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 5:58pm

John Divney wrote: »

Well to be fair that comes from about two years of cumulative build up looking at my own game, an hour here and there reading, camera work, reading different opinions online.

My thoughts at the start when I came back was, 'I don't know anything apart from head down knees bent, take an inch of sand in a bunker'.

I suppose the point I should be making is it gave me clarity, not confusion, and made things simpler, not more complex, even though it sounds technical, it really wasn't. It gave me confidence to to hit bad shots and that I could recover.

It is purely technical..."which muscles for power?"

also, there is no such thing as "Talent".
IMO you are completely destroying your ability to play by doing all that analysis.

You know what a good swing looks like and you know what a bad swing looks like. Dont do the bad things and try to do the good things.
To be fair, all this technical introspection hasnt exactly worked out for you...why not try to just play the game...after the basics its art, not science at our level.

sodbuster77 · 11-04-2013 6:35pm

The biggest mistakes I see beginners/ high handicappers make is when they follow a bad shot with a bad decision.

I too often see lads knock a drive down into the rough and straight away reach for the 3 wood because they feel they need to make up the distance that's been lost. Getting the ball back into play is the most important thing.

We all hit bad shots and make bad choices no matter what level we play at but if you can limit the amount of bad decisions you make in a round you will score better.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 7:06pm

Greebo, couple of points, I'm delighted with the progress I've made in two and a half eyars, i'm off ten. I would never have broken 18 (in my opinion) if I just kept playing the way you suggest and not understand my own swing and the differing viewpoints of others.

Frankly, 'just do the right thing' is about as much use as saying ';just get better'.

Secondly , about muscle, it was a point I was making about the differing views of pros, and how it is not always the best to go straight to a pro for everyone, and to learn what you believe is correct for you, and makes sense, ie the science behind it and compatability to your natural swing tendancies...

In theory. There are two main golf swing types, and then a possible combination of the two.

The swing v hitter as Homer Kelley described in 'The Golfing Machine, one is the hitter using the right hand dominantly and driving it into the ball, the other is the tension free swinging using centrifugal force for clubhead speed, ie a the golfer pulling down with the lead are drag loading the club with lag, as if pulling a rope to a bell.

Modern researches say there is a combination of both, some disagree blah blah etc

The you have one plane rotary swings with more uprights, very different swings.

I don't go THAT far into it, I' am a swinger in my own mind, ie a tension free swing with no arm muscle us, not forcing the club into the ball but swinging through it, no forced lag

Golf is extremely complex if you want it to be, but it is only simple for very good players who don't need to change to improve.

I may be making assumptions but you are probably a very good golfer and has been for most of the time, therefore no need to really look at things deeply, and have a fear of losing something.

I started with nothing to lose, and got better for it. If you are at 18 and have been for 5 years, you aren't going to get better, fact, unless you look at yourself more closely.

For Paws · 11-04-2013 7:16pm

Lads, there's no single 'correct' way to improve. People think differently, and respond to different methods of teaching differently. Whats causes confusion in one man creates clarity in another.

I have tremendous respect for teachings pros. They have to listen to all the shiite we talk about golf, and what we think is our weakness, when watching us hit a couple of balls will tell them all they need to know about our game.

If I could give only one tip to would be improvers, it's this.

Be honest with yourself. Record your rounds and see where you're weak, and then tell your Pro the truth.

Someday · 11-04-2013 7:20pm

How do you guys track your game, just use the scorecard ? How many putts, fairways hit etc ?

For Paws · 11-04-2013 7:34pm

Someday wrote: »

How do you guys track your game, just use the scorecard ? How many putts, fairways hit etc ?

I mark a spare scorecard with FH (Fairways Hit), GIR, Putts, SS (Sand Saves)
and Club used.

So if i hit Driver on a hole & my drive finishes left of fairway the FH column will have a DL in it. If I hit 3w left, then 3wL. Etc etc etc.

Later I'd work out Percentages for the various categories and decide whether to shoot myself / practice / take up table tennis.

Russman · 11-04-2013 8:10pm

John Divney wrote: »

In theory. There are two main golf swing types, and then a possible combination of the two.

The swing v hitter as Homer Kelley described in 'The Golfing Machine, one is the hitter using the right hand dominantly and driving it into the ball, the other is the tension free swinging using centrifugal force for clubhead speed, ie a the golfer pulling down with the lead are drag loading the club with lag, as if pulling a rope to a bell.

Modern researches say there is a combination of both, some disagree blah blah etc

The you have one plane rotary swings with more uprights, very different swings.

No offence intended, but this ^^^ is horse$h1t !! That doesn't even include Jimmy Ballard's connection method that's shunned by the mainstream coz he won't tow the PGA line. Who cares what modern research says ? Research ?? There's 150 pros on a practice ground each week, all brilliant players and there's also 150 different swings on view. And I guarantee you not one of those players is wondering/deciding if he's a hitter or a swinger.

To each their own, and whatever works for you. Totally up to you whatever way you do it.

Swing shape depends on build, height, weight, flexibility, natural tendency......lots of variables. Look how flat Vijay swings it, and he's 6' 3" or something - totally opposite to what he "should" do, in theory.

You've got yourself to 10, fair play, that's no mean achievement, but it really sounds to me like you're tying yourself up in knots and over complicating things. Maybe that's your natural leaning, fair enough, I'm not trying to be harsh or offend you.

Golf isn't that complicated, think of it like hitting a ball with a stick (I'm serious - there's a lovely chapter in Harvey Pennicks Little Red Book about it). I wish I could think of it that way myself more often !!

Op, I'd recommend a read of Bob Rotella's Golf is not a game of Perfect, the best €15 you'll ever spend on golf IMO.

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 8:39pm

John Divney wrote: »

Greebo, couple of points, I'm delighted with the progress I've made in two and a half eyars, i'm off ten. I would never have broken 18 (in my opinion) if I just kept playing the way you suggest and not understand my own swing and the differing viewpoints of others.

Frankly, 'just do the right thing' is about as much use as saying ';just get better'.

Secondly , about muscle, it was a point I was making about the differing views of pros, and how it is not always the best to go straight to a pro for everyone, and to learn what you believe is correct for you, and makes sense, ie the science behind it and compatability to your natural swing tendancies...

In theory. There are two main golf swing types, and then a possible combination of the two.

The swing v hitter as Homer Kelley described in 'The Golfing Machine, one is the hitter using the right hand dominantly and driving it into the ball, the other is the tension free swinging using centrifugal force for clubhead speed, ie a the golfer pulling down with the lead are drag loading the club with lag, as if pulling a rope to a bell.

Modern researches say there is a combination of both, some disagree blah blah etc

The you have one plane rotary swings with more uprights, very different swings.

I don't go THAT far into it, I' am a swinger in my own mind, ie a tension free swing with no arm muscle us, not forcing the club into the ball but swinging through it, no forced lag

Golf is extremely complex if you want it to be, but it is only simple for very good players who don't need to change to improve.

I may be making assumptions but you are probably a very good golfer and has been for most of the time, therefore no need to really look at things deeply, and have a fear of losing something.

I started with nothing to lose, and got better for it. If you are at 18 and have been for 5 years, you aren't going to get better, fact, unless you look at yourself more closely.

In my mind golf is no more physically demanding than any other sport, and far less than some.
Its no harder to hit a golf ball than it is to hit a tennis ball or a football.
I'm sure you've played other sports, did you think about them the same way you think about golf? I'll bet you didnt, so why are you treating golf differently?
To me it seems like you are trying to find some physically perfect swing so that you dont have to work on your mental part of golf. There is no perfect swing other than Iron Byron, your mind will always get in the way. Thats why its often far easier to react and score a bicycle kick than it is to take a penalty. Every football in the world can physically score a penalty. Every golfer in the world who has sound fundamentals ("their swing/setup looks right") can hit the ball straight.

The rest is all in your head.

/edit
I played off 17 for years and years.
I played multiple times a week and got no better or no worse.
Then I got some lessons and put some effort into short game, course management and incorporating the things the pro told me. These were all small enough things, my swing always looked like a golf swing.
I got to a lowest of 8.1 last year on the basis of the above work.
Sure some of the changes were technical and I had to think about them on the range and the odd time at the course. I still do today, but I never (and more importantly my Pro never) tried to disect my swing into its component parts.
Doing that and expecting to have a natural, fluid swing at the end , to me at least, is like going into a lab and adding the chemical ingredients for lemon meringue pie into a bowl and wondering why it doesnt taste so hot and yet a chef can throw some stuff in a bowl and make it amazing.

John Divney · 11-04-2013 9:01pm

Russman wrote: »

No offence intended, but this ^^^ is horse$h1t !! That doesn't even include Jimmy Ballard's connection method that's shunned by the mainstream coz he won't tow the PGA line. Who cares what modern research says ? Research ?? There's 150 pros on a practice ground each week, all brilliant players and there's also 150 different swings on view. And I guarantee you not one of those players is wondering/deciding if he's a hitter or a swinger.

To each their own, and whatever works for you. Totally up to you whatever way you do it.

Swing shape depends on build, height, weight, flexibility, natural tendency......lots of variables. Look how flat Vijay swings it, and he's 6' 3" or something - totally opposite to what he "should" do, in theory.

You've got yourself to 10, fair play, that's no mean achievement, but it really sounds to me like you're tying yourself up in knots and over complicating things. Maybe that's your natural leaning, fair enough, I'm not trying to be harsh or offend you.

Golf isn't that complicated, think of it like hitting a ball with a stick (I'm serious - there's a lovely chapter in Harvey Pennicks Little Red Book about it). I wish I could think of it that way myself more often !!

Op, I'd recommend a read of Bob Rotella's Golf is not a game of Perfect, the best €15 you'll ever spend on golf IMO.

What part is bull****, trying to understand all points of view and deciding what best suits you? You basically are agreeing with me here.

As for modern research, the way Nicklaus et al swung, led them to smashing out their hips, that flowing C position at the end of the swing is out of vogue, even hearing diffreing points of view on how to pivot and not smash out your hip or knee is valuable.

I found that the weight is far better for balance when joints are neutrally alligned, that is the same stance for all clubs, I don't move my hip out over neutral on the downswing or after after impact, I pivot with my hips towards target after impact and am balanced, no turning pressure on my knee bending ways it shoudln't.

That was simply from looking around the net at different theories, I am convinced it is the proper way. Swing theory is more than the movement of club to ball,

If there isn't anything to learn then why even go to a pro in the first place?

I do not complicate my swing, at all, I simply found what I believed to be correct for me after looking through a lot, and from stance with to ball position to plane. It is hard to get to a point where you have grooved a swing for yourself, but you DO NOT take all that thought out on the course with you.
Nobody improves if they aren't able to relax on the tee and let the practice be
of use.

If you have a good swing don't change it. If you clearly have a God awful swing, you have to change it, that is where a bit of research comes in.

Telling someone to swing like a stick to a ball, or do the right thing is a waste of time because they don't know in their mind what they think is correct, so cannot make an improvement to that

GreeBo · 11-04-2013 9:28pm

John Divney wrote: »

What part is bull****, trying to understand all points of view and deciding what best suits you? You basically are agreeing with me here.

As for modern research, the way Nicklaus et al swung, led them to smashing out their hips, that flowing C position at the end of the swing is out of vogue, even hearing diffreing points of view on how to pivot and not smash out your hip or knee is valuable.

I found that the weight is far better for balance when joints are neutrally alligned, that is the same stance for all clubs, I don't move my hip out over neutral on the downswing or after after impact, I pivot with my hips towards target after impact and am balanced, no turning pressure on my knee bending ways it shoudln't.

That was simply from looking around the net at different theories, I am convinced it is the proper way. Swing theory is more than the movement of club to ball,

If there isn't anything to learn then why even go to a pro in the first place?

I do not complicate my swing, at all, I simply found what I believed to be correct for me after looking through a lot, and from stance with to ball position to plane. It is hard to get to a point where you have grooved a swing for yourself, but you DO NOT take all that thought out on the course with you.
Nobody improves if they aren't able to relax on the tee and let the practice be
of use.

If you have a good swing don't change it. If you clearly have a God awful swing, you have to change it, that is where a bit of research comes in.

Telling someone to swing like a stick to a ball, or do the right thing is a waste of time because they don't know in their mind what they think is correct, so cannot make an improvement to that

Those bolded bits would seem to be pretty contradictory...
The last point I will make is that I dont know a single successful amateur golfer who thinks the way you do, and all the modern literature promotes thinking in the exact opposite way.

All the best to you, but I personally think thats terrible advice to give a high handicap golfer.

soundsham · 11-04-2013 9:34pm

stop playing with no hope and dont care hackers

John Divney · 11-04-2013 9:52pm

I'll explan better. I believe the weight at setup should be just forward of your ankles, not on the balls of feet. For balance and not knackering out your knee and hips.

Your stance width is determined by your pelvis with, nothing to do with shoulders.

So a correct and neutral stance would have your knee stacked below your hip socket, then your knee stacked over your ankle where the weight is. this is called neutral joint allignemet and based on anatomical logic.

As for amatuers, read a golf message board and look at the handicaps and look at the discusions.

As for succesful amateurs, look at the coaches they use, they buy into it, literally, spending thousands on coaches. Look at Stack and tilt, One plane Gurus, Two plane Gurus, Jim Hardy

They all don't go down to the local PGA pro because they probably know exactly what he's going to say, they look for coaches that do what they believe.

That is oN TOP of them being naturally more talented than you or I will ever be.

Tiger Woods changed his swing three times, he's one of the best natural players ever, and trains as hard as any other golfer.

You essentially agree with me, you improved by going to an expert, stuck to his drills and improved.

I simply looked at what I believed was right, would suit me, and after over six months was settled.

I didn't complicate anything, my swing thought is not long, in fact it's vacant on the course, I just try and let it happen.

I'm not advocating changing every year, I'm saying do the research once, and then tweek along the way when problems crop up,, as they always will in golf.

FixdePitchmark · 11-04-2013 10:01pm

John Divney wrote: »

I'll explan better. I believe the weight at setup should be just forward of your ankles, not on the balls of feet. For balance and not knackering out your knee and hips.

Your stance width is determined by your pelvis with, nothing to do with shoulders.

So a correct and neutral stance would have your knee stacked below your hip socket, then your knee stacked over your ankle where the weight is. this is called neutral joint allignemet and based on anatomical logic.

As for amatuers, read a golf message board and look at the handicaps and look at the discusions.

As for succesful amateurs, look at the coaches they use, they buy into it, literally, spending thousands on coaches. Look at Stack and tilt, One plane Gurus, Two plane Gurus, Jim Hardy

They all don't go down to the local PGA pro because they probably know exactly what he's going to say, they look for coaches that do what they believe.

That is oN TOP of them being naturally more talented than you or I will ever be.

Tiger Woods changed his swing three times, he's one of the best natural players ever, and trains as hard as any other golfer.

You essentially agree with me, you improved by going to an expert, stuck to his drills and improved.

I simply looked at what I believed was right, would suit me, and after over six months was settled.

I didn't complicate anything, my swing thought is not long, in fact it's vacant on the course, I just try and let it happen.

I'm not advocating changing every year, I'm saying do the research once, and then tweek along the way when problems crop up,, as they always will in golf.

John - fair play you made your point.

But he is looking for a top ten. Not Leonardo's Codex.

downwesht · 11-04-2013 10:05pm

Don't over analyze!

Find out how far you ACTUALLY hit each club on your average swing,ie if you hit a 5 iron 140 yards thats what you hit.......just because your playing partners can hit it further doesn't matter a jot, it's how far YOU can hit it that matters.

Practice your putting,use the same type of ball every round.Consistency can only come by using the same ball all the time.

Relax and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad round, don't get ahead of yourself if you have a good score going,play one hole at a time!
ENJOY!

coolhandspan · 11-04-2013 10:09pm

hit ball then turf, check divot to make sure contact with ground is in front of ball position. best tip I have..

John Divney · 11-04-2013 10:22pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

John - fair play you made your point.

But he is looking for a top ten. Not Leonardo's Codex.

Sorry, I never usually talk about this stuff on or off the course so the tap opened. I'm a reader usually not a waffler.:(

FixdePitchmark · 11-04-2013 10:23pm

John Divney wrote: »

Sorry, I never usually talk about this stuff on or off the course so really the tap opened. I'm a reader usually not a waffler.:(

Don't worry GreeBo can do that to ya,

Someday · 11-04-2013 11:02pm

downwesht wrote: »

Don't over analyze!

Find out how far you ACTUALLY hit each club on your average swing,ie if you hit a 5 iron 140 yards thats what you hit.......just because your playing partners can hit it further doesn't matter a jot, it's how far YOU can hit it that matters.

Practice your putting,use the same type of ball every round.Consistency can only come by using the same ball all the time.

Relax and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad round, don't get ahead of yourself if you have a good score going,play one hole at a time!
ENJOY!

Same ball, even for a high handicap guy ?

Top 10 tips for a high handicapper to reduce their handicap

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