"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

pah · 20-05-2019 3:45am

A hugely underwhelming finale and season in general. Just a lot of disappointment for what could have been. I think the seeds were sown a bit last year with the drop of in quality of writing, this season has been bad IMHO.

There is NO way greyworm would have kept Jon alive once he found out what happened. All the unsullied and dothraki cheering for their queen and her conquest/future conquets, few mins later they're walking down the docks and setting sail for a new life????. FML the more I'm typing the madder I'm getting. Need to sleep on this

ardinn · 20-05-2019 3:45am

I was pretty annoyed but im mellowing to that, wont defend it tho, from the moment dany died I was in awe of the how **** it was, but its getting easier as the seconds go by,

Sansa - Yes
Tyrion - Yes
Jon - eh, why is CB still a thing?
Ayra - Meh
Brann - im good with that

It really could have been so much more - but Im grateful for the show as a whole. It was the best television ever created in my eyes.

Its the end of an era - it was just rushed, but, thanks for everything GOT - You rock!

Me_Grapes · 20-05-2019 3:48am

It should have ended with Drogon carrying Danys’ dead body into the sunset with Jon looking on.

There was absolutely no need for us to know anything that happened after that.

20-05-2019 3:48am

About as bad as could have been expected.

While I had no hopes for this in general, even though I liked the last episode as a spectacle.

If they had finished with Tryion saying to John ask me again in 10 years followed by the end and a silence, like the red wedding I thought that would have been cool.

They obviously spent too much time filming other possible endings of the show (given the triage ending) to try keep it a secret, to but a **** about the series as a whole.

Overall not Dexter but ****e.

martyos121 · 20-05-2019 3:49am

I ended up seeing the leaks that were circulating for weeks just before episode 4 (the main reason I haven’t been posting here since), and I realised very quickly into episode 5 that they were 100% genuine, so I knew all of that was coming unfortunately, as did many others. I think I was able to enjoy it a bit more as a result of that, because I remember reading it at the time in absolute disgust that it was going to end like this. Having had time to come to terms with it, all I had to look forward to was the execution of this whole episode, and it was a little better than I expected. That’s pretty much the only positive thing I’ll say about it.

Given that Benioff and Weiss had that ending in their locker for years and it was the ending that was coming all along from the mind of GRRM, if they had gotten there in a more natural, earned way, I think most would’ve accepted it. But no, the writers rushed the absolute shîte out of it and I expect this episode and the season as a whole will be ripped to shreds tomorrow as a result.

But at least Ghost got the cuddles he deserved at last. That makes me not so pissed off.

20-05-2019 3:50am

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I googled favourite to win the game of thrones out of interest earlier, I didn’t think it would be that much of a spoiler but it doesn’t take a genius to work out the ending looking at the results.

Bookies on bicycles etc etc

I avoided the thread in the gambling forum for just such reasons

sdanseo · 20-05-2019 3:50am

Underwhelming doesn't cover it. Pathetic comes close.
A show I've enjoyed for a decade completely destroyed by the people who gave birth do it. That just can't be explained.

I understand their motive was to not give the fans what they wanted. I also understand that short of having that comet come back and just wipe everyone out there were a million more creative ways it could have been done.

The whole season 7 and 8 episode reduction was madness. It planted the seeds of doubt for me.
This is the TV show with the biggest budget in living memory; there was no reason we couldn't have had two full seasons with no excuses about feature length run time.

Cinematically, the last season was brilliant. I enjoyed it to a level, and if it had been any other show would say it was fantastic. But this was GoT. It was and should rightly have been held to a higher standard.

I think I understand why what happened happened and the logic behind the story of it all. But they should have finished the job properly, instead they rushed and subsequently butchered it.

Rightly or wrongly, that petition will have 5 or maybe 10 million signatures by this time tomorrow.

J. Marston · 20-05-2019 3:50am

This has probably put me off ever doing a rewatch of the whole thing.

tricky D · 20-05-2019 3:51am

Bran of the Broken Seasons.

/sigh

RickBlaine · 20-05-2019 3:54am

A few thoughts:

- I liked that Tyrion had a major role to play. Probably the most meaningful stuff he has had since the end of season 4. As usual, Dinklage is fantastic. Tyrion ended up in the role that best suited his skill set - I like that.

- I don't understand how Jon could possibly be conflicted about Dany. He witnessed her massacre an entire city ffs.

- I thought Dany's death was too rushed and cliched. Surprise stab by her lover in an embrace. We've seen that before. I wish her downfall was a little more complex than a sudden stab.

- I don't really mind the scenes after Dany's death, although Greyworm suddenly becoming the de facto leader of King's Landing was very rushed and a bit jarring, even if he was made head of Dany's armies.

- I also don't really mind Bran becoming ruler. But I think it would have been a bit more palatable if some of the lords required more persuading. Also, it would have been better if Bran was still Bran and not ThreeEyedRavan.exe upgraded with a King mod.

- Maybe I'm a romantic, but I would have liked to have seen Gendry joining Arya on the deck of her ship.

- The episode had some great shots, notably Dany with Drogon's wings behind her, and a sleeping Drogon awakening underneath the ash.

- Overall, not the ideal finale to the whole show but probably the best way season 8 could have ended given the 5 episodes that proceeded it.

20-05-2019 3:55am

Also after Dani died I basically couldn't wait for it to end and all the faux endings were annoying. I literally couldnt wait for it to stop

Colombus Arya was a bit **** also

Brendog · 20-05-2019 3:55am

Dexter 2.0

I lost interest after John's discussion with Tyrion. So much build up for so little payoff.

BRAN THE BROKEN :pac:

mrkiscool2 · 20-05-2019 3:55am

J. Marston wrote: »

This has probably put me off ever doing a rewatch of the whole thing.

For me it's going to be like Dexter but in a different order. Season 1-4, like Dexter, 10/10 would watch again. Season 5 was great (season 6 of Dexter was) season 6 was good (like season 7), season 7 was meh, with some good moments (like season 5 of Dexter) and season 8 is "Ewww, glob no, never again"

jim-jam · 20-05-2019 3:55am

Decent 40 minutes but everything after Danys death was a pile of crap.

If the Unsullied and Dothraki were leaving anyway why did Jon still have to go north aside from a mildly happy ending for him and ghost. I was expecting Bran to go "lol jk you're not going to the nights watch at the pier".

Benioff and Weiss sh*t themselves and rushed the ending.

I enjoyed the series as a whole (I didn't even mind the Dorne bits) but this season bar a few moments has left a slightly sour taste.

TimeToShine · 20-05-2019 3:56am

Appalling. Bronn "I serve myself" of the blackwater as master of coin, Pod in the kingsguard, Jon being sent to the wall and having to go through an independent kingdom where he can easily be pardoned, Drogon floating around, Arya "Columbus" Stark off to end up dead in Valyria, the dothraki meekly accepting that their queen is dead instead of electing a new Khal and pillaging...I'm gonna need to sleep on it but this is fraudulent stuff. Cookie cutter fantasy of the highest order.

Twenty Grand · 20-05-2019 3:56am

Liked: Sansa. Probably the best story for the entire series. The only person who learned from her mistakes and stuck to her principles.

Reunited with Ghost. Doesn't make up for the travesty of ignoring him a few eps back though but I'd be foaming if they left it out.

Davos: didn't do much, but he's the ONLY voice of reason in the entire show.

Nice to see Sweet Robyn. Thought he was dead.
Edmure Tully's little speech was hammy, but funny.

Disliked: Everything else. Like, all of it.

Danys death telegraphed for days and badly acted. Cliche death. Drogon flies off into the mist with the body. Such an easy get out.

Arya "Columbus" Stark: weak end to such a badass character. Did nothing all season. Totally pointless.

Bran: Weak ending again. Spent 4 seasons saying he wanted nothing to do with ruling and power, and suddenly "why do you think I came all this way?" Oh I don't know Bran? Presumably because the writers couldnt find a better way to justify all the time spent on you. Did sweet FA for 8 seasons, apart for telling us about Jon's parents.
Also his first choice as ruler is to acknowledge Tyrion is a crap advisor, then reinstates him. Doesn't look good for Westeros.

Jon: Killed Dany after a 5 min chat with Tyrion, well done. Does nothing else, expect look moody. Rejoins the nights watch. Was the whole "nights watch still exists" a ploy by Tyrion to keep the unsullied happy? Sure what's the point of them now?
Presumably becomes king beyond the wall to the 50 or so Wildlings that are still alive. Reminds me of Nigel Farage. Leads a massive revolt, upends society, then f*cks off to let everyone else clean up the mess.

Tyrion: is the dumbest man of them all. Constantly makes mistakes and backs the wrong horse. But sure everyone listens to him, reorganises society in a 5 minute Call to Arms speech then lands the top job. His last line is about bringing a donkey into a brothel. His character arc is a character circle.

Bronn: has murdered, threathened and bribed his way onto the Small Council. Surprised he lived, but sure people of Westeros deserve no better.

Sam: bumbling fool as usual is now Arch Maester proving it's not what you know, it's who you know. Will likely prove fatal in a medical crisis. Somehow blagged his way into the King Making ceremony.

Greyworm: another moody irrational character. Wants Jon dead. Is somehow appeased at the notion of sending Jon to the only place he was happy. But sure Jon can come back because they're leaving for Narth anyways, so what does it matter.

Dothraki: what happened them again? Disappeared.

TimetoShine getting in with the Columbus line a minute ahead of me just caps off a bad night

LuckyGent88 · 20-05-2019 3:57am

god that was ****e. Seriously ****e. Nothing thru the whole show

RickBlaine · 20-05-2019 3:58am

One of the most disappointing things about the finale is that it gave no context to Bran's warging during the winterfell battle. So are we led to assume he was just doing some sightseeing when he warged into those crows?

20-05-2019 3:59am

J. Marston wrote: »

I actually really liked the first 40 minutes. Very ominous with Dany but as soon she went in for the kiss it all went downhill.

The dragon sniffing Jon was pretty **** also, kinda gave away what was about to happen, I didnt mind as much seeing his arm move back during the kiss but it really needed to end around here.

LuckyGent88 · 20-05-2019 4:03am

So much went wrong in that season it’s actually a joke. Just not good enough after the first seven season

FAILSAFE 00 · 20-05-2019 4:09am

There was easily enough content for another season.

This season should have only been about the white walkers threat.

jim-jam · 20-05-2019 4:25am

Two things I did like that I forgot to mention earlier was Sansa's ending as Queen of the North and Peter Dinklage was in fairness brilliant in this episode.

J. Marston · 20-05-2019 4:36am

This shot was amazing...

Stan27 · 20-05-2019 4:52am

Not happy with Jon having to take his vows. Should be allowed to have a family as the nights watch is pointless now. I’ll presume he will become the leader of the free folk/ king north of the wall.

Don’t mind Arya going on an adventure, and Sansas ending is good.

Would liked to have known what happens with drogan, and what the iron bank will do next as they have lost a lot of money, surely the see an opportunity with westeros to make money.

With 2 starks ruling over both kingdoms, hopefully the world will be A better place . The ending was ok, but unfortunately The whole season was so rushed, which is disappointing.

2smiggy · 20-05-2019 5:05am

Awake early, worth watching before work or go back to bed and watch tonight?

kowloon · 20-05-2019 5:19am

The wheeled throne.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 20-05-2019 5:22am

I'm okay with all the main plot points. Dany going mad, Jon killing her and going north, Sansa being Queen of Winterfell, Bran on the Throne with a council, Unsullied returning to Essos ect. ect. ect.

It's the writing and how they got there is what went so very wrong. The story line was crap, the pacing was crap, the logic was crap, the timeline was crap, the dialogue was crap, the consistency was crap, crap crap crap.

They spoiled a great show and Season 7 + 8 has left me feeling unsatisfied. It's only a tv show. But they had the chance to tell the greatest story ever told on TV. We have not ended up with that.

Grayditch · 20-05-2019 5:42am

J. Marston wrote: »

I actually really liked the first 40 minutes. Very ominous with Dany but as soon she went in for the kiss it all went downhill.

Completely agree. I was being humbled by a great start and then... Oh dear.

Billy86 · 20-05-2019 5:52am

Watched it in a pub in Toronto which was randomly rammed with Irish people after the Raptors NBA game... and I had the best 'overheard in...' exchange I've had in AGES.

First guy (clearly from the south/Republic): I liked that they made the north separate to the south in the end.

Second guy (Northern Irish... Mmmmaybe Donegal) : I disagree.....

I missed everything else beyond that as I had to explain to my Canadian girlfriend why I was randomly laughing so hard. :pac:

Deeper Blue · 20-05-2019 5:55am

I'd be very interested to hear anybody attempting to defend that finale.

I'm actually seething, what a waste of my ****ing time

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-05-2019 6:01am

J. Marston wrote: »

This shot was amazing...

I thought it summed up the season, loads of style, no substance or reason for it other than it looked cool

Hercule Poirot · 20-05-2019 6:07am

Very disappointing. A sickly sweet ending where everyone "wins", except Dany, but she was never going to get away with her actions in the last episode. Her death deserved better than the cliched hug and stab she got from Jon - reminded me straight away of when Ramsay killed his father

Tully's attempt to claim the throne for himself was a minor moment of humour

Drogon melting the throne was bizarre to say the least, it's always been assumed the dragons had some level of intelligence but that was crap - maybe it knew what Jon was going to do but I don't see how it would lay there and let it happen?

How in the name of **** are Bronn, Sam and Brienne on the council? Davos I understand but the other three? Lazy, lazy, lazy

Arya and Sansa I'm ok with

And lastly, Jon's punishment is to go back where he started, to a unit that is no longer required - and he immediately abandons his post and goes further beyond the wall?

I don't know what ending I wanted but it definitely wasn't this....

Billy86 · 20-05-2019 6:11am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Dothraki: what happened them again? Disappeared.

What happened to them?

They died.

They got ahniallated in full against the Night Kings army.

Then they magically didn't. Never happened. The end.

Billy86 · 20-05-2019 6:13am

naughtb4 wrote: »

J. Marston wrote: »

This shot was amazing...

I thought it summed up the season, loads of style, no substance or reason for it other than it looked cool

Exact thing that came to my mind - "wow, I never knew dragons were so dramatic and obsessed with staging".

Like most of the episode, kind of ****e. But. Gave up caring a good few episodes back, I think this finally tops Lost for worst, stupidest ending to a show ever (for both their descent into awfulness, not just a terrible finale).

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-05-2019 6:17am

Yeah this was just dreadful.

I was disappointed after the night king died but took the show for what it was.

This was a bad Netflix movie. Maybe watching it all together would help

Jamiekelly · 20-05-2019 6:27am

In season 7 Bran said to Sansa "I'm not the Lord of Winterfell, I can never be Lord of anything, I'm the three eyed raven now" Now he's the King. Why?
The writers and their defenders can't blame the fact that the show has gone past the books for that mess because it was entirely D&D's creation. The inconsistencies even in this episode alone were quite staggering. Jon acting loyal to Dany when talking to Tyrion and killing her only 5 minutes later. Dany taking Tyrion prisoner despite him betraying her and actually making a public show of it in front of her troops. She just slaughtered an entire city for no reason but decides to be reasonable towards Tyrion then?

I'm actually disgusted by this. There is actually better fan fiction than this on Reddit and the GoT fan websites. No wonder the HBO media team are taking a break for awhile. Even they know they would be crucified over this especially if they released the inside the episode segment on Youtube. The cinematography, set design and directing in this season and season 7 have been absolutely outstanding which really shows the lack of quality in one area alone, the writing.

D&D are complete spoofers. I never truly realised it until this season but it's so apparent now that they have nearly no clue how to write any believable dialogue or close a narrative. No wonder Kit Harrington outright said it was going to be a disappointing ending. Even Drogon taking Dany's body felt like a complete cop out. Where did he take her and why did he decide not to kill Jon? I thought they were about to come back to it in the final montage like seeing him drop her body off at the house of Black and White implying that Ja'qen Hghar was about to take her face. That would have been a real cliffhanger worthy of GoT. Putting a seed of doubt into the whole faux happy ending we got.

They really pulled a Dexter ending with Jon going off to live beyond the wall. Might aswell have given him an axe and a flannel shirt while they were at it.

Necro · 20-05-2019 6:30am

Bran Stark on the throne. Christ on a bike they really wanted to mess with the viewers didn't they. What an absolutely awful and anticlimactic finish to the real battle (that he never had anything to do with really).

Jon being forced to take the black (AGAIN) was stupid too. He could have flown off on Drogon and landed up North to the same effect, would have made way more sense given his lineage.

Sansas ending was fine, as someone else said it did end being the best storyline throughout the show (mainly as they killed other plotlines).

I really do think they missed a beat not having Gendry on the boat with Arya at the end too.

Overall it was an entertaining, but highly disappointing finale. I don't think there would be as many complaints about the plotlines bar maybe Bran if this season had been extended into two seasons, dividing the battle for Winterfell and the battle for Kings Landing.
But it is what it is, and likely the only ending we'll ever get given the author's propensity to flap about and not publish.

20-05-2019 7:07am

After numerous seasons closing with ominous shots of the dead descending south towards the wall and below it, I liked the hopeful closing shot to the whole series of life moving back beyond the wall. Jon possibly going on to be The New Mance Who Wasn't Promised rather than The Price Who Was, I don't mind that.

Beyond the wall is where I'd be moving to also, as it seems Westeros is bound to repeat similar mistakes in this new era. The lords and ladies of Westeros will choose a ruler from now on? Sure, there won't be any politicking, plotting, favours or back-stabbing in the future. E.g. -"We supported Bran and the Starks for ruler last time without question, now you must support our Dornish prince without question". Will it all just go as well and agreeable as it did in the Dragon Pit? I'm skeptical. Dany broke the wheel, but they seem to have put it back together with bits of the old wheel and under similar blueprints.

Tyrion's contradiction of himself in the Dragon Pit was hard to ignore as a viewer - "I have had nothing to do for weeks but think...and the best thing to do is appoint Brandon the Broken as ruler". Within two minutes he is then pleading with the same people "I thought I was wise but I wasn't, I thought I knew what was right but I didn't" when asked to be Bran's Hand. Should someone not have said in that moment "Well if you are that passionate about your lack of wisdom, why do you think your proposal for Bran as ruler is a good one?".

No, because we ain't got time for that shít, a 13 episode closing run guaranteed that any such contradictions are glossed over or ignored. Likewise...Lord Robyn of the Vale was still a petulant, afflicted boy last we saw of him, but now he is calm and agreeable because the scene and finale demand it. It couldn't be because Lord Royce was working with him and prepping him back in the Vale, because Lord Royce was busy in Winterfell when those scenes demanded it. Lord Robyn is a minor character who I care little for, but it's unfortunate that Tyrion was butchered once he left Kings Landing for Meereen.

Episodes 3 and 4 really damaged this season for me, in the aftermath I didn't think 5 and 6 were an appalling landing. It's just a shame I have to adjust my expectations or add "...for recent efforts" when I say that an episode was good. As TV goes, it's been a highly enjoyable 10 years for the most part. Because of the likes of this show, I am one of many who have visited Iceland and had a ball there. Others have gone to Croatia, many have come and will continue to flock to Northern Ireland in the aftermath of this show. Many of us have made lasting memories in real life because of a TV show, and all of us in here loved the show at one stage. So, I can't hate it and I don't. I'm just disappointed that when the writers made fans largely nod in agreement with "We have an ending for this show and 13 episodes will do it", the reality of that idea didn't live up to the expectation. It went more like Lost than The Shield.

It's not a case for me that "Once they ran out of original material, it all went to shít". No, there were some great episodes/scenes in Seasons 2-4 which were original to the show. Likewise, there were great episodes in the later seasons where there were no books to follow. It's a case for me that the showrunners got burnt out from working on this and simply wanted to move on, rushing an ending to a story that couldn't and shouldn't be rushed in the process. You never know, maybe some of the main cast wanted to move on as well. The show deserved better and so did the fans, but I'd rather we got an ending with the characters we've known over 8 seasons. That, rather than something which runs for 10+ seasons but where main characters have to be killed off and new ones introduced not because of the story, but because the actors want to move on.

HBO and the fans wanted more Thrones, but the actual people working on it for 10+ years of their lives didn't. What we got this past two seasons was the compromise, but still it should have been much better.

20-05-2019 7:11am

kowloon wrote: »

The wheeled throne.

The Ironside Throne

ricero · 20-05-2019 7:14am

A total flop of an ending and final series. I look forward to leggo trying to defend this mess lol

meeeeh · 20-05-2019 7:20am

Considering I never overly cared who is on the iron throne I had no issues with where characters end. I thought Jon is going to end somewhere in the North when he said to Tormund that he wishes he couId go with him in 4th episode. That was a bit predictable. But I found couple of scenes a bit ridiculous. The meeting of Lords was resolved in 5 minutes and that small council meeting was just pure cringe. The dialogue and how they filled the positions with season regulars was ridiculous. Bronn Master of Coin? I can't imagine less trustworthy person. What was Sam doing there?

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-05-2019 7:28am

Maybe it was to show nothing had been learned and the leadership was still as incompetent as ever

S. Goodspeed · 20-05-2019 7:28am

What was the rationale for rushing this last season into 6 episodes? Surely this was a gold mine for HBO so dragging it out would have been the more commercially logical move...

Somehow I felt nothing when Dany died. That would have been unthinkable a few seasons ago but she really just became a pain in the ass with the constant “bend the knee” thing.

Also I did not feel any great satisfaction from it all coming up Stark in the end. I think the problem was the best Stark characters all died a long time ago and their deaths were largely avenged over the previous seasons.

Bran had an incredibly strange storyline throughout and seems like a very bizarre choice for King, he shows zero empathy, zero emotion, zero leadership skills etc. He’d probably be a great advisor to the King though.

Most disappointing this season for me was the lack of surprises or twists and follow up on GoT “lore”. The books are full of it and some of the fan theory’s were unbelievably clever and fun but evidently way off the mark

Finally, the dragon burning the iron throne was really cheesy. We’d seen nothing in the previous seasons to suggest he had any such awareness of what was going on or a higher level of intelligence

Teddy Daniels · 20-05-2019 7:33am

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

What was the rationale for rushing this last season into 6 episodes? Surely this was a gold mine for HBO so dragging it out would have been the more commercially logical move...

Somehow I felt nothing when Dany died. That would have been unthinkable a few seasons ago but she really just became a pain in the ass with the constant “bend the knee” thing.

Also I did not feel any great satisfaction from it all coming up Stark in the end. I think the problem was the best Stark characters all died a long time ago and their deaths were largely avenged over the previous seasons.

Bran had an incredibly strange storyline throughout and seems like a very bizarre choice for King, he shows zero empathy, zero emotion, zero leadership skills etc. He’d probably be a great advisor to the King though.

Most disappointing this season for me was the lack of surprises or twists and follow up on GoT “lore”. The books are full of it and some of the fan theory’s were unbelievably clever and fun but evidently way off the mark

Finally, the dragon burning the iron throne was really cheesy. We’d seen nothing in the previous seasons to suggest he had any such awareness of what was going on or a higher level of intelligence

Actors were on x per episode so instead of 10 40 minute episodes we git the same 400 minutes over 6 episodes saving a huge amount. HBO will have sold it and its ad revenue for the same amount.

20-05-2019 7:35am

Bran can’t die of natural causes, can he? So that’s him on his wheelchair forever?

ceadaoin. · 20-05-2019 7:44am

Wtf why did Jon Snow get totally shafted? I mean he basically saved the world. And he was the rightful king. Seems a bit ridiculous

Apart from that, as an episode of a tv show it wasn't too bad

NuMarvel · 20-05-2019 7:59am

Greyworm: I'm gonna kill all my queen's enemies!

Also Greyworm: Except the murderer of my queen, of course.

Unearthly · 20-05-2019 8:01am

I really wanted to like it but felt flat. Ah well sure what can you do

Hulk Hands · 20-05-2019 8:06am

Had to give Arya an ending so made her Dora the Explorer

Sonics2k · 20-05-2019 8:09am

One thing I'm going to say, even if it is quite late in the thread.

GRRM decided years ago that Bran would be King. The writers were told who becomes king, but they've gotten to it in a different way, simply because GRRM hasn't fully decided how Bran becomes King.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

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