Will we ever have a 4-day working week?

LeeLooLee · 08-03-2016 2:48am

Kylen Tasty Physician wrote: »

LeeLooLee, it's a life choice. Nobody is forced to buy a house, but the sense of security is desirable for most (in Ireland). Nobody is forced to reproduce, but without it, we're kinda fooked as a species, no?

I'd rather work 3 x 15 hour days rather than 5 x 9 hour days. The thing is, those three days, most workers are going to be lest productive. Even 4 x 11 hour days would be great for me. It just won't suit everybody or every company.

Exactly. So why tell someone else they're 'lucky' that they can afford to cut down their hours?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 08-03-2016 2:55am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Exactly. So why tell someone else they're 'lucky' that they can afford to cut down their hours?

Because they are. Maybe they are lucky they haven't had an unexplanned child. Or pressure from peers to buy a house. Maybe the use of the word lucky isn't mean to be taken literally?

endacl · 08-03-2016 2:57am

I have a four day working week. Being in charge of your own time rocks.

LeeLooLee · 08-03-2016 3:03am

Kylen Tasty Physician wrote: »

Because they are. Maybe they are lucky they haven't had an unexpected child. Or pressure from peers to buy a house. Maybe the use of the word lucky isn't mean to be taken literally?

Neither of those things is lucky, but never mind. Quite grating to see people going on about it being a 'privilege' not to have a mortgage or a family. It isn't a privilege. It's a different life choice/lifestyle.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 08-03-2016 3:07am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Neither of those things is lucky, but never mind. Quite grating to see people going on about it being a 'privilege' not to have a mortgage or a family. It isn't a privilege. It's a different life choice/lifestyle.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. It sounds more envious than grating to me. The grass is always greener on the other side and all that.

Iwasfrozen · 08-03-2016 3:50am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Neither of those things is lucky, but never mind. Quite grating to see people going on about it being a 'privilege' not to have a mortgage or a family. It isn't a privilege. It's a different life choice/lifestyle.

How do you expect he company to bring someone in to cover the one day you don't want to work? It doesn't make sense so it won't happen.

LeeLooLee · 08-03-2016 3:57am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How do you expect he company to bring someone in to cover the one day you don't want to work? It doesn't make sense so it won't happen.

Why does anyone need to be there? There are all sorts of ways a 4-day week could be possible. In the few jobs where it's absolutely essential that staff are on the premises 5 days a week, surely some staff could have the Monday off, others the Friday, etc....

I'm not seeing the issue.

air · 08-03-2016 8:58am

The primary barrier to reducing the length of our working lives is clearly lifestyle inflation.

Technology has enabled huge increases in productivity per person since the 50's but our consumption has just increased to match it.
The clearest sign of this is that pretty much everybody still works 40 hours a week, be they a managing director on 250k or a factory worker on 20k. The factory worker may well be quite happy with his lot and why not, while the MD just drives a more expensive car, lives in a bigger house, goes on fancier holidays etc.
If the MD was happy with the 20k lifestyle he could probably retire after 5-6 years of work at that rate of pay.

In Ireland property is a huge living expense, now that 2 people are typically working in the home we generally pay twice as much for building land as we did previously, competing with one another as to who can take on the biggest mortgage for the longest term to buy a home. If mortgages were capped at 20 years for example, society would be far better off. Once lending exceeds the cost of building, the excess just goes into the pockets of landowners.

Zenify · 08-03-2016 9:22am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you think we will ever see the day when the norm will be for the working week to be 4 days long rather than 5? Suppose that between now and 2030, for instance, the economy grew by 20% and per capita incomes also grew by a similar amount, while people worked the usual 5 day working week - surely people would much prefer to keep their level of material wealth at 2016 levels while only having to work a 4-day week instead? I believe that if everybody (and it would need to be basically everybody) came to a consensus that they were only willing to work Monday to Thursday, most people would be a hell of a lot happier.

The trouble is, of course, that if even 10% of people decide that *they* would prefer to work instead of have extra free time, they would earn more money and this would lead to others feeling jealous and/or inferior and therefore deciding that *they* would rather work than have extra free time.
What is needed is for a social taboo to be gradually introduced whereby people who want to work 5 days a week are ostracised!

Imagine having to work only 4 days and then get 3 days off. Over a working life of 44 years you would enjoy well over 2,000 extra days off.
Like how much material comfort do we need? Nowadays people on the dole can live in warm houses, have a hot shower once a day, access to an amazing range of cheap food, technology which eliminates boredom, access to so much comfort and luxury from the perspective of even the richest people of 1900. We're already well past the point of material fulfilment- people nowadays only strive to achieve to stave off that gnawing worry (cultured into them from growing up in the kind of society we all grew up in) that they will be considered by others to be inferior and a "failure" if they don't. Possessing 80% of the material living standard of nowadays is still luxury in absolute terms - people feeling depressed by their income being lower *relative* to others will always be with us so we might as well be poorer in general since in reality we adjust to a lower income over time.

People formerly had to work 6.5 days a week in factories, 12 hour days 6 days a week, with it gradually being whittled down to 39/40 hours a week. I think the eventual acceptance of a 4 day working week should be seen as a goal for all developed economies.

With less hours worked per person there will be more work to "go around". The inevitable eventual boiling of the earths oceans and atmosphere from the burning off of all of the earths fossil fuels could be staved off another while longer too, since the economy will be growing less quickly. With an extra weekend day, the 4 days you *are* working could be approached with much more enthusiasm by everyone, mitigating some of the lost productivity for everyone working a day less. And with more free time and 4/5 of the income, I think people would be a lot happier (so long as it is universal).

Maybe I'm thinking of this way too simplistically but as I lie awake at 4:45 in the morning it all makes sense!

I think the real issue here is not your working week but finding a job you enjoy, the time you spend doing it will not be an issue then.

I used to ask myself that question all the time when I hated my job. Then I left my job and completely changed my career and I don't ask myself it anymore. I now enjoy what I do and the time I spend doing it is irrelevant (sometimes over 60 hour weeks).

Iwasfrozen · 08-03-2016 9:24am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Why does anyone need to be there? There are all sorts of ways a 4-day week could be possible. In the few jobs where it's absolutely essential that staff are on the premises 5 days a week, surely some staff could have the Monday off, others the Friday, etc....

I'm not seeing the issue.

I am, you can negotiate with your own employer for this. Everyone else will keep with the 5 days.

08-03-2016 9:41am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Why does anyone need to be there? There are all sorts of ways a 4-day week could be possible. In the few jobs where it's absolutely essential that staff are on the premises 5 days a week, surely some staff could have the Monday off, others the Friday, etc....

I'm not seeing the issue.

There are plenty of jobs where presentism is required, as you have to be at the place of work for a certain number of hours, for example, receptionist.
On site support is another one, they don't need (or want)12 hour cover three days a week.

08-03-2016 10:07am

I teach English in another country. Been with the same school for round four years and last year, they started giving every teacher a day or even a day and a half off. So the ten or so foreigners and most of the hundred or so non-foreigners.. Works brilliantly. No point sitting around waiting for class when you can knock them all out in a row. I love whoever made the software that allows it.

08-03-2016 10:13am

Deleted User wrote: »

I teach English in another country. Been with the same school for round four years and last year, they started giving every teacher a day or even a day and a half off. So the ten or so foreigners and most of the hundred or so non-foreigners.. Works brilliantly. No point sitting around waiting for class when you can knock them all out in a row. I love whoever made the software that allows it.

Proves that working smarter is better than just putting in the hours, do you still get paid the same?

08-03-2016 10:22am

Deleted User wrote: »

Proves that working smarter is better than just putting in the hours, do you still get paid the same?

Yeah, same pay and it's great for morale and loyalty. I'm lucky because it gives me more time to continue learning web development as a hobby / future career.

KomradeBishop · 08-03-2016 2:17pm

air wrote: »

The primary barrier to reducing the length of our working lives is clearly lifestyle inflation.

Technology has enabled huge increases in productivity per person since the 50's but our consumption has just increased to match it.
The clearest sign of this is that pretty much everybody still works 40 hours a week, be they a managing director on 250k or a factory worker on 20k. The factory worker may well be quite happy with his lot and why not, while the MD just drives a more expensive car, lives in a bigger house, goes on fancier holidays etc.
If the MD was happy with the 20k lifestyle he could probably retire after 5-6 years of work at that rate of pay.

In Ireland property is a huge living expense, now that 2 people are typically working in the home we generally pay twice as much for building land as we did previously, competing with one another as to who can take on the biggest mortgage for the longest term to buy a home. If mortgages were capped at 20 years for example, society would be far better off. Once lending exceeds the cost of building, the excess just goes into the pockets of landowners.

You're exactly wrong about this, as wages have stagnated and not kept up with rising productivity - the benefits of increased worker productivity go to the higher ups in business and the finance/wealth class:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2015/02/labor_gap/04e656c70.png

jiltloop · 08-03-2016 2:39pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I'd prefer Monday off. But then again Monday night would become the new Sunday night, and Tuesdays would be the new Monday.

On a more serious note, wasn't there some big billionaire business man last year who gives all his employees extra days off each week? He said it makes for happier workers and happier workers make him more money.

Edit: found him!
http://www.businessinsider.com/billionaire-carlos-slim-calls-for-three-day-working-week-to-improve-quality-of-life-2014-7?IR=T

Carlos Slim is not slim.

air · 08-03-2016 3:49pm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You're exactly wrong about this, as wages have stagnated and not kept up with rising productivity - the benefits of increased worker productivity go to the higher ups in business and the finance/wealth class:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2015/02/labor_gap/04e656c70.png

Erm, even according to your own graph, compensation has increased by 100% since 1950, proving my point.

LeeLooLee · 08-03-2016 4:12pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I am, you can negotiate with your own employer for this. Everyone else will keep with the 5 days.

I can see you don't really think outside the box. I'm thinking on a wider scale and you're obviously thinking about your own particular job. Never mind.

LeeLooLee · 08-03-2016 4:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There are plenty of jobs where presentism is required, as you have to be at the place of work for a certain number of hours, for example, receptionist.
On site support is another one, they don't need (or want)12 hour cover three days a week.

And there are plenty of others where it isn't. I'm not saying every single job needs to be 4 days a week, but plenty can. My mam goes into work 5 days a week even though her job is almost exclusively sending e-mails and making phone calls. She could do the same work over 3-4 days easily. The only reason she goes in 5 days a week is that 'it's just how it is'. They are clinging to outdated working practices.

KomradeBishop · 08-03-2016 4:35pm

air wrote: »

Erm, even according to your own graph, compensation has increased by 100% since 1950, proving my point.

Compensation has increased by ~18% since 1973....that's 40 years that wages have remained mostly stagnant, while productivity rose ~150%...

Will we ever have a 4-day working week?

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