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Dublin bus - what routes should they bring back?
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This is the bit of your post I agree with. The State and private money has invested in Luas to Brides Glen/Cherrywood, while the mid points of the line at Sandyford and Dundrum would justify better North Wicklow and other southern connections than the unfit for purpose 75.
The 75 has recently had a recast timetable which has resulted in significantly improved reliability.
I'm not sure how you view it as unfit for purpose?0 -
The 75 has a recast timetable which has resulted in significantly improved reliability.
I'm not sure how you view it as unfit for purpose?
The 63 also connects the Dart and Luas as it stops right outside Carrickmines Luas Station. I agree that extending the luas to Bray is a waste of time and money when other areas need better public transport more.
However I do believe there is reasonable demand for a Bray to Dundrum via Sandyford Industrial Estate. It dosen't have to be super frequent maybe hourly off peak and half hourly during peak times.0 -
The 63 also connects the Dart and Luas as it stops right outside Carrickmines Luas Station. I agree that extending the luas to Bray is a waste of time and money when other areas need better public transport more.
However I do believe there is reasonable demand for a Bray to Dundrum via Sandyford Industrial Estate. It dosen't have to be super frequent maybe hourly off peak and half hourly during peak times.
This is more or less what I have suggested earlier. If there was even a half hourly connection between Bray or Shankill DART and Bride's Glen it shouldn't cost a hell of a lot; and give better connectivity than at present. A casual glance at the 84 timetable doesn't appear to suggest that anything exists at the moment.
Re the 75; I have unpleasant memories of waiting for a bogged down 75 considerably later than the scheduled connection at Rathfarnham, and then going all around the houses to get to Dundrum. A bus every two hours per the present timetable on the DB website is not a realistic connection to anything.0 -
Sexual Chocolate wrote: »Always thought that the 120 or even the old 121 should of ran up as far as Finglas village or even charlestown instead of ashtown. While a new route should serve ashtown via the navan road.
Open to correction here but there is no bus from O Connell/parnell square street that stops at Blanchardstown Shopping Centre.
I reckon the existing 120 and most of the 122 routes are goners once Luas Cross City opens and the network review happens. 120 in particular will be nearly entirely served by the Luas. There's probably fare differences that make the bus cheaper, but Id say a big amount of the passengers are FTP anyway.0 -
This is more or less what I have suggested earlier. If there was even a half hourly connection between Bray or Shankill DART and Bride's Glen it shouldn't cost a hell of a lot; and give better connectivity than at present. A casual glance at the 84 timetable doesn't appear to suggest that anything exists at the moment.
Re the 75; I have unpleasant memories of waiting for a bogged down 75 considerably later than the scheduled connection at Rathfarnham, and then going all around the houses to get to Dundrum. A bus every two hours per the present timetable on the DB website is not a realistic connection to anything.
Why only go to Brides Glen and not to Dundrum.0 -
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I reckon the existing 120 and most of the 122 routes are goners once Luas Cross City opens and the network review happens. 120 in particular will be nearly entirely served by the Luas. There's probably fare differences that make the bus cheaper, but Id say a big amount of the passengers are FTP anyway.
Not quite. The majority of passengers for the 120 come from Rathborne and Royal Canal Park. There are hundreds of homes still being built there and none of these are close to Luas. The existing rail line at Ashtown serves a very different section of the city to the the 120. While I can see a bit of a redesign of the 120 and 122, you need to still have a bus service to Ashington and Rathborne/Royal Canal Park.
There were similar conversations about the 123 when the Red Line Luas opened. It mirrors the majority of the route between Drimnagh and James' Street, but both the bus and Luas continue to operate and do well.0 -
Not quite. The majority of passengers for the 120 come from Rathborne and Royal Canal Park. There are hundreds of homes still being built there and none of these are close to Luas. The existing rail line at Ashtown serves a very different section of the city to the the 120. While I can see a bit of a redesign of the 120 and 122, you need to still have a bus service to Ashington and Rathborne/Royal Canal Park.
There were similar conversations about the 123 when the Red Line Luas opened. It mirrors the majority of the route between Drimnagh and James' Street, but both the bus and Luas continue to operate and do well.
I was commuting a lot from Rathbourne over the last 18 months. The 120 was a fantastic route, covering areas well out of reach of the train and one of the best of the new routes. It's main tweak would be to extend it beyond it's current terminus; other than that it's a great route and fit for purpose.0 -
Losty Dublin wrote: »I was commuting a lot from Rathbourne over the last 18 months. The 120 was a fantastic route, covering areas well out of reach of the train and one of the best of the new routes. It's main tweak would be to extend it beyond it's current terminus; other than that it's a great route and fit for purpose.
I think its a great route as well. I much prefer it for getting into town compared to the 122 which takes longer due to the NCR past the prison and Dorset Street. I still remember the old imps that were used on it a good while back. :pac:
I really dont think the Luas will have too much of an impact on it. The Luas stops at Liam Whelan and Broombridge arent great imo, especially Broombridge which is pretty much on the outskirts of Cabra.0 -
Not quite. The majority of passengers for the 120 come from Rathborne and Royal Canal Park. There are hundreds of homes still being built there and none of these are close to Luas. The existing rail line at Ashtown serves a very different section of the city to the the 120. While I can see a bit of a redesign of the 120 and 122, you need to still have a bus service to Ashington and Rathborne/Royal Canal Park.
There were similar conversations about the 123 when the Red Line Luas opened. It mirrors the majority of the route between Drimnagh and James' Street, but both the bus and Luas continue to operate and do well.
The 120 can continue to serve Ashtown, but I would suggest it'll go in a completely different route otherwise. I used to live in RCP and would say a large amount of people will walk the short distance to Broombridge for the Luas. 120 is a good service but it's your typical "stop every 10 meters" route, and a lot longer than it should be.
Ashtown itself is a bit further away from Broombridge, but I'd say itll still be an attractive option.0 -
This is more or less what I have suggested earlier. If there was even a half hourly connection between Bray or Shankill DART and Bride's Glen it shouldn't cost a hell of a lot; and give better connectivity than at present. A casual glance at the 84 timetable doesn't appear to suggest that anything exists at the moment.
Re the 75; I have unpleasant memories of waiting for a bogged down 75 considerably later than the scheduled connection at Rathfarnham, and then going all around the houses to get to Dundrum. A bus every two hours per the present timetable on the DB website is not a realistic connection to anything.
The 84 is roughly every 30 minutes at peak which is when the demand for such a service might exist. It's a 5-6 minute walk to Cherrywood LUAS stop from the stop at Cherrywood (and yes I do agree that it should serve the LUAS stop itself, but that would mean longer running times and might require more resources).
As for the 75 - The bus now operates every 30 minutes 7 days a week. Not every two hours.
I'm guessing you are complaining about the route via Ballinteer - perhaps might it not strike you that the people living there are as entitled to an orbital bus service as anyone else along the route? It gets strong loadings on that section in both directions - unless more orbital routes are introduced that's not going to change.
We can all have bad experiences with public transport, and they will cloud our judgement, but to be fair to DB, as I said already, the 75 timetable has been recast which has improved reliability significantly.0 -
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As for the 75 - The bus now operates every 30 minutes 7 days a week.
There are two problems with the 75;
1. Overall time is excessive, because of the grossly indirect route. It is quicker to go into town and out again.
There is a need for a 75X, leaving the 75 route at White's Cross and using the M50 to the N81, then going straight to the Square via the Tallaght bypass, rather than Tallaght village, which is horrifically congested much of the day.
2. It is unreliable, due to traffic and other problems. I am accustomed to leapfrogging on 46A and other frequent routes, but on the 75, something is wrong.
Some years ago, late morning, I waited at Nutgrove for a bus to DL. the timetable showed two buses departing Tallaght, half an hour apart. I was in good time forthefirst bus, lest it be early, but it was half an hour late. I asked the driver was it the first or second of these two buses, he replied that it was the first, and that the second was now immediately behind us, and there it was. The first bus of course had to pick up all the passengers, while the second flew past many stops, making a 30 minute frquency actually two buses per
hour at random.
This is why the public abandon public transport and take to their cars, thus exacerbating problems.
The most urgent need for the 75 is to eliminate the Ballinteer loop, we can walk from the Barton Road roundabout to Dundrum as quickly as use the 75 much of the day0 -
There are two problems with the 75;
1. Overall time is excessive, because of the grossly indirect route. It is quicker to go into town and out again.
There is a need for a 75X, leaving the 75 route at White's Cross and using the M50 to the N81, then going straight to the Square via the Tallaght bypass, rather than Tallaght village, which is horrifically congested much of the day.
2. It is unreliable, due to traffic and other problems. I am accustomed to leapfrogging on 46A and other frequent routes, but on the 75, something is wrong.
Some years ago, late morning, I waited at Nutgrove for a bus to DL. the timetable showed two buses departing Tallaght, half an hour apart. I was in good time forthefirst bus, lest it be early, but it was half an hour late. I asked the driver was it the first or second of these two buses, he replied that it was the first, and that the second was now immediately behind us, and there it was. The first bus of course had to pick up all the passengers, while the second flew past many stops, making a 30 minute frquency actually two buses per
hour at random.
This is why the public abandon public transport and take to their cars, thus exacerbating problems.
The most urgent need for the 75 is to eliminate the Ballinteer loop, we can walk from the Barton Road roundabout to Dundrum as quickly as use the 75 much of the day
As was stated numerous times previously, the 75 timetable was changed not long ago and thanks to which is now much more reliable.0 -
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There are two problems with the 75;
1. Overall time is excessive, because of the grossly indirect route. It is quicker to go into town and out again.
There is a need for a 75X, leaving the 75 route at White's Cross and using the M50 to the N81, then going straight to the Square via the Tallaght bypass, rather than Tallaght village, which is horrifically congested much of the day.
2. It is unreliable, due to traffic and other problems. I am accustomed to leapfrogging on 46A and other frequent routes, but on the 75, something is wrong.
Some years ago, late morning, I waited at Nutgrove for a bus to DL. the timetable showed two buses departing Tallaght, half an hour apart. I was in good time forthefirst bus, lest it be early, but it was half an hour late. I asked the driver was it the first or second of these two buses, he replied that it was the first, and that the second was now immediately behind us, and there it was. The first bus of course had to pick up all the passengers, while the second flew past many stops, making a 30 minute frquency actually two buses per
hour at random.
This is why the public abandon public transport and take to their cars, thus exacerbating problems.
The most urgent need for the 75 is to eliminate the Ballinteer loop, we can walk from the Barton Road roundabout to Dundrum as quickly as use the 75 much of the day
The 75 now has adequate running time to do the journey with the new timetable introduced back in May. I've posted this several times now.
I think the large number of people who use the 75 from the Ballinteer loop wouldn't appreciate your suggestion of removing it either. That is only going to happen if and when a replacement orbital route is introduced to serve that area such as the planned 175 that was canned due to cutbacks in funding.0 -
There are two problems with the 75;
1. Overall time is excessive, because of the grossly indirect route. It is quicker to go into town and out again.
There is a need for a 75X, leaving the 75 route at White's Cross and using the M50 to the N81, then going straight to the Square via the Tallaght bypass, rather than Tallaght village, which is horrifically congested much of the day.
2. It is unreliable, due to traffic and other problems. I am accustomed to leapfrogging on 46A and other frequent routes, but on the 75, something is wrong.
Some years ago, late morning, I waited at Nutgrove for a bus to DL. the timetable showed two buses departing Tallaght, half an hour apart. I was in good time forthefirst bus, lest it be early, but it was half an hour late. I asked the driver was it the first or second of these two buses, he replied that it was the first, and that the second was now immediately behind us, and there it was. The first bus of course had to pick up all the passengers, while the second flew past many stops, making a 30 minute frquency actually two buses per
hour at random.
This is why the public abandon public transport and take to their cars, thus exacerbating problems.
The most urgent need for the 75 is to eliminate the Ballinteer loop, we can walk from the Barton Road roundabout to Dundrum as quickly as use the 75 much of the day
I had another similar bad experience with the 75. There was a concert on in Marlay Park and I was waiting in Ballinteer for the bus to DL. The was about half an hour late when it came it was displaying 'Private Hire' so I assumed it was some speical service to bring people to Marlay Park as nearly everyone was gettin off at the stop. It only dawned on me after it left the stop that that bus was the 75 which decided to display 'Private Hire' dispite actually being in service. I ended up having to get a 14 to Dundrum and the Luas the rest of the way.0 -
The 84 is roughly every 30 minutes at peak which is when the demand for such a service might exist. It's a 5-6 minute walk to Cherrywood LUAS stop from the stop at Cherrywood (and yes I do agree that it should serve the LUAS stop itself, but that would mean longer running times and might require more resources).
Wasn't the orginal plan for the 84 during network direct to run it every 30 minutes between Newcastle and Cherrywood only which was a logical idea. But a local councillor demanded that the service be retained as far as UCD. Then after the 45 was withdrawn it was completely rerouted away from UCD anyway.0 -
Sexual Chocolate wrote: »I dont see it too often but last week i saw three 122's with one car separating the second and third bus.
122 route is badly planned out - the way it has to turn right from NCR onto Dorset Street is a giant, avoidable bottleneck for example, and I believe there are a few more along the route. No wonder they tend to bunch up in certain places!0 -
I had another similar bad experience with the 75. There was a concert on in Marlay Park and I was waiting in Ballinteer for the bus to DL. The was about half an hour late when it came it was displaying 'Private Hire' so I assumed it was some speical service to bring people to Marlay Park as nearly everyone was gettin off at the stop. It only dawned on me after it left the stop that that bus was the 75 which decided to display 'Private Hire' dispite actually being in service. I ended up having to get a 14 to Dundrum and the Luas the rest of the way.
The days of the concerts at Marlay Park are not representative of the service in any way, shape or form - they caused major delays to routes due to heavy traffic and inconvenience to local residents too due to the massive crowds attending them. Bus routes were also curtailed due to Garda closing roads unannounced.0 -
122 route is badly planned out - the way it has to turn right from NCR onto Dorset Street is a giant, avoidable bottleneck for example, and I believe there are a few more along the route. No wonder they tend to bunch up in certain places!
Yep, even via Eccles St like the old 121 it would avoid some of the NCR traffic.
Going through town today on the 46a made me think of this thread and why DB are very unlikely to bring back any routes that went anywhere near O Connell Street/College Green area unless there was a full private car ban in place or even between 0700-2100 every day.
More park and ride facilities on the outskirts of town should solve any greviences from the public if priced fairly.0 -
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The days of the concerts at Marlay Park are not representative of the service in any way, shape or form - they caused major delays to routes due to heavy traffic and inconvenience to local residents too due to the massive crowds attending them. Bus routes were also curtailed due to Garda closing roads unannounced.
Im surprised the residents don't object I'd imagine they'd attract a crowd of drunken idiots into a usually a quiet suburban neighbourhood. Its not like they bought a house near Croke Park or Landsdowne Road and know what they're getting themselves in for.0 -
Wasn't the orginal plan for the 84 during network direct to run it every 30 minutes between Newcastle and Cherrywood only which was a logical idea. But a local councillor demanded that the service be retained as far as UCD. Then after the 45 was withdrawn it was completely rerouted away from UCD anyway.
It was a couple of very young councillors from Greystones - one of whom is now the minister for health. If implemented properly, along with the 184, it would have given Greystones a bus every 15 minutes, so they really didn't do their constituents any favours.
It would probably make more sense to run the 84 between Newcastle and Bray Station every 30 minutes, with the 84a continuing to run between Bray and Blackrock/St. Vincent's (via Cherrywood Luas) at peak times.0 -
It was a couple of very young councillors from Greystones - one of whom is now the minister for health. If implemented properly, along with the 184, it would have given Greystones a bus every 15 minutes, so they really didn't do their constituents any favours.
It would probably make more sense to run the 84 between Newcastle and Bray Station every 30 minutes, with the 84a continuing to run between Bray and Blackrock/St. Vincent's (via Cherrywood Luas) at peak times.
Running the 84 only to Bray wouldn't be good as then Greystones/Bray wouldn't have a direct frequent connection to the Luas in order to get to Sandyford or Dundrum. A peak only 84a wouldn't surpass. I would actually consider reintroducing the 45 as a peak only service between Bray Dart Station and the City Centre with a similar timetable to most recent version of the 8 in order to serve the schools.0 -
There isn't a hope in hell that the 8 will return - the numbers just aren't there to justify it. The market isn't there to justify it either - most people using the bus service beyond Dun Laoghaire have always been pensioners since the DART arrived.
First off, the issue with the 8 was that it was a duplicate of the DART entirely in its original alignment before being scrapped in 2001 and mostly when it was reinstated back in 2005.
Second off, when it was reinstated, it was a skeleton of its former self from a timetable perspective with only a hand full of journeys Monday to Friday and no weekend service. Naturally, very few people with bother with it. In this sense, it appeared to be a Machiavellian attempt to see the route fail so that they could ultimately pull the plug on it.
Therefore, the sensible thing to do would have been to experiment with a completely realigned version of the 8 route along the N11 thereby merging it with the existing 7D route and running it hourly Monday to Sunday.Given that the DART will increase frequency to every 10 minutes I can see even less justification for the service.
I will once again reiterate the point that the DART is an excellent service. However, it isn't much use for someone wishing to go to UCD, Stillorgan or Donnybrook let alone places even further away such as Sandyford, Dundrum or Tallaght.
Also, until the unions loose their hold over Irish Rail, I will believe the 10 minutely frequency when I see it.The bus resources are quite rightly focussed on the 7 and 7a, which do have significant usage either side of Dun Laoghaire
Nobody is saying that they shouldn't be. Of course, the areas along the 7 and 7A routes are more in need of a better level of service. That's a given. The problem with this logic is that trying to do more with existing resources is obviously not going to work.0 -
patrickbrophy18 wrote: »Therefore, the sensible thing to do would have been to experiment with a completely realigned version of the 8 route along the N11 thereby merging it with the existing 7D route and running it hourly Monday to Sunday.
I will once again reiterate the point that the DART is an excellent service. However, it isn't much use for someone wishing to go to UCD, Stillorgan or Donnybrook let alone places even further away such as Sandyford, Dundrum or Tallaght.
You could get the Dart to DL and then 46A up to UCD or Donnybrook or a 75 to Dundrum or Tallaght. The bus connects plan will mean people may have to switch modes of transport from time to time. Dalkey only has a population of 8,000 so its not exactly huge and needs bus services going here there and everywhere. A bus service between Dalkey and Town on the N11 would duplicate many routes so it would be a waste of resources.0 -
16A past the Nutgrove in Rathfarnham.
The place is 20 times busier now than it was when they withdrew the service a few years back.0 -
You could get the Dart to DL and then 46A up to UCD or Donnybrook or a 75 to Dundrum or Tallaght.
The issue with this logic is that a car can do many of these journeys in a fraction of the time:- 75: Getting a DART to Dun Laoghaire and changing for the 75 to Dundrum could take up to 50 minutes. By car, it's usually around 20 minutes. If Tallaght is the end point, it would take 2 hours by public transport versus only 30 minutes by car.
- 46A: Taking the DART to Dun Laoghaire and then a 46A to UCD could take up to 45 minutes while doing so by car is only 20 minutes.
The bus connects plan will mean people may have to switch modes of transport from time to time.
I think the phrase "from time to time" should be the operative word here. Unfortunately, staggered journeys which require one or possibly two changes are incredibly inconvenient for those needing to be in work early in the morning.
For example, when I was working in IBM in Damastown, it took up to 2 and a half hours to do just one direction of travel. This isn't great from a work-life balance perspective given that a huge chunk of my time outside of work was spent traveling.
With limited stop orbital journeys doing a complete loop parallel to the M50, this time could be cut in half and possibly more if the proper infrastructure was provided and connecting services are sufficiently coordinated.
Above all, if it ends up being an attractive alternative to the car (time-wise), it should help in mitigating any further build up of traffic on the already heavily congested M50.Dalkey only has a population of 8,000 so its not exactly huge and needs bus services going here there and everywhere.
To begin with, Dalkey would only be a starting point as it would traverse its way through Upper Glenageary Road (taking in the shopping districts), Mounttown Road Lower, Mounttown Road Upper, Monkstown Avenue, Grange Grove, Monkstown Ring Road and then onto the N11. So, the collective alignment along this new stem would form a business case for an hourly service. Plus, it would distinguish itself quite a bit from the 46A.A bus service between Dalkey and Town on the N11 would duplicate many routes so it would be a waste of resources.
Given the high profile nature of Stillorgan, UCD and Donnybrook as a trunk route for buses, I don't see how an additional branch (see the purple text) would do any harm. It's at least worth a trial run on an hourly basis. If the numbers don't add up after a year, scrap it. Until then, nobody knows for sure if such a route would be a success.
The half-assed reinstatement of the 8 (from 2005 to 2016) and the almost non-existent 7D aren't going gather numbers for the simple reason that their timetables offer zero flexibility to prospective passengers. Even if they ran clock-face hourly like the Aircoach, without the 24 hour part, people will more likely avail of them as frequency sells.0 -
patrickbrophy18 wrote: »The issue with this logic is that a car can do many of these journeys in a fraction of the time:
- 75: Getting a DART to Dun Laoghaire and changing for the 75 to Dundrum could take up to 50 minutes. By car, it's usually around 20 minutes. If Tallaght is the end point, it would take 2 hours by public transport versus only 30 minutes by car.
- 46A: Taking the DART to Dun Laoghaire and then a 46A to UCD could take up to 45 minutes while doing so by car is only 20 minutes.
Unfortunately public transport sometimes has to take longer even if there is a direct mode. Anyway nobody would use the 75 to make a end to end journey DL to Tallaght as it would take too long. Any bus route direct or not will generally take longer if its between two places outside of the city centre. At a one hour frequency I can't how a bus would entice people out of their car.patrickbrophy18 wrote: »I think the phrase "from time to time" should be the operative word here. Unfortunately, staggered journeys which require one or possibly two changes are incredibly inconvenient for those needing to be in work early in the morning.
For example, when I was working in IBM in Damastown, it took up to 2 and a half hours to do just one direction of travel. This isn't great from a work-life balance perspective given that a huge chunk of my time outside of work was spent traveling.
With limited stop orbital journeys doing a complete loop parallel to the M50, this time could be cut in half and possibly more if the proper infrastructure was provided and connecting services are sufficiently coordinated.
Above all, if it ends up being an attractive alternative to the car (time-wise), it should help in mitigating any further build up of traffic on the already heavily congested M50.
So we should have a direct bus service between Dalkey and Damastown just to suit you. Public transport is designed to meet the needs of the majority not minority. A bus service on the m50 would probably not be viable as the road is designed for cars and not public transport. I've yet to come across a city with a bus service on an orbital motorway.patrickbrophy18 wrote: »To begin with, Dalkey would only be a starting point as it would traverse its way through Upper Glenageary Road (taking in the shopping districts), Mounttown Road Lower, Mounttown Road Upper, Monkstown Avenue, Grange Grove, Monkstown Ring Road and then onto the N11. So, the collective alignment along this new stem would form a business case for an hourly service. Plus, it would distinguish itself quite a bit from the 46A.
There would still be alot of crossover between the 7/a, 46a and the 4 throughout much of your proposed route all of those being much more frequent than your proposed hourly service. Which people will be more likely to use even if they have to walk.patrickbrophy18 wrote: »Given the high profile nature of Stillorgan, UCD and Donnybrook as a trunk route for buses, I don't see how an additional branch (see the purple text) would do any harm. It's at least worth a trial run on an hourly basis. If the numbers don't add up after a year, scrap it. Until then, nobody knows for sure if such a route would be a success.
The half-assed reinstatement of the 8 (from 2005 to 2016) and the almost non-existent 7D aren't going gather numbers for the simple reason that their timetables offer zero flexibility to prospective passengers. Even if they ran clock-face hourly like the Aircoach, without the 24 hour part, people will more likely avail of them as frequency sells.
Ile give you a case study. Before Network Direct there used to be an hourly 63 which operated from the cc to Kilternan. The buses carried very few passengers other than adding additional capacity on the n11 the buses also used to right at Donnybrook depot then operate down Angelsea Road to Ballsbridge thus adding additional capacity between Ballsbridge and town.
This route was quite logically withdrawn from the cc and now operates as a popular route to DL instead of the CC. After it was withdrawn places like Kilternan, Ballyogan, Carrickmines and parts of Foxrock all of which would add up to a similar population as Dalkey lost a direct service to UCD, Donnybrook and Ballsbridge. I would imagine a route from Dalkey into Town via the n11 would have a similar result.0 -
I reckon the existing 120 and most of the 122 routes are goners once Luas Cross City opens and the network review happens. 120 in particular will be nearly entirely served by the Luas. There's probably fare differences that make the bus cheaper, but Id say a big amount of the passengers are FTP anyway.
The 120 will continue to be a very handy service for those of us who live in RCP & Ashtown, say after dark when the prospect of a walk along the canal isn't that promising.
Meanwhile, as Ashington delights in cutting itself off from us scuffs who live on the far side of the canal, the Luas might as well be on the far side of the moon, so the 122 will continue to be in demand there.0 -
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mrsdewinter wrote: »The 120 will continue to be a very handy service for those of us who live in RCP & Ashtown, say after dark when the prospect of a walk along the canal isn't that promising.
Meanwhile, as Ashington delights in cutting itself off from us scuffs who live on the far side of the canal, the Luas might as well be on the far side of the moon, so the 122 will continue to be in demand there.
I think I clarified since that last post, but when I say they're goners, I mean as they exist today. I think the 120 especially will deserve a significant re-routing, and the 122 should be re-routed also for a large section.0
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