Dublin bus - what routes should they bring back?

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

I think I clarified since that last post, but when I say they're goners, I mean as they exist today. I think the 120 especially will deserve a significant re-routing, and the 122 should be re-routed also for a large section.

There's still a fair distance between the first two LUAS stops and that may indeed weigh in favour of the 120 & 122 retaining their existing routes through Cabra.

Large parts of Rathborne are a significant walk from both Ashtown & Broombridge - I certainly see the need for the bus service.

We will have to wait and see what happens in terms of usage patterns - that will dictate what changes happen in the interim before BusConnects comes along.

patrickbrophy18

Stephen15 wrote: »

Unfortunately public transport sometimes has to take longer even if there is a direct mode. Anyway nobody would use the 75 to make a end to end journey DL to Tallaght as it would take too long. Any bus route direct or not will generally take longer if its between two places outside of the city centre. At a one hour frequency I can't how a bus would entice people out of their car.

The meandering of the 75 adds significantly to the journey length. This is where the 175 should come in. The Go Ahead version of the 175 only goes from UCD to Citywest when it should start from Dun Laoghaire. UCD is indeed a much needed stop off point. But, it shouldn't be the terminus. At the end of the day, a 90 minute journey length is far too long for an orbital route and needs to operate more sensibly.

Stephen15 wrote: »

So we should have a direct bus service between Dalkey and Damastown just to suit you. Public transport is designed to meet the needs of the majority not minority. A bus service on the m50 would probably not be viable as the road is designed for cars and not public transport. I've yet to come across a city with a bus service on an orbital motorway.

What is it with all of these over-exaggerations?

I'm not saying that a direct service from Dalkey to Damastown exclusively should be introduced. I was saying that the current 2 and sometimes 2 and a half hour combined journey lengths each way needs to be cut significantly. If aligned correctly, a bus service could cover the purpose of this end-to-end commute in an hour while taking in key locations en route.

Stephen15 wrote: »

There would still be alot of crossover between the 7/a, 46a and the 4 throughout much of your proposed route all of those being much more frequent than your proposed hourly service. Which people will be more likely to use even if they have to walk.

The exact same thing could be said vice versa. There is always going to be some overlap with existing routes. The added benefit would be that the combined frequency makes the trunk routes more reliable. For example, Finnegan Bray has a huge amount of crossover with the existing 45, 84, 145 and 45A routes. Nevertheless, it serves to augment the level of service along specific stretches adding more reliability to these stretches.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ile give you a case study. Before Network Direct there used to be an hourly 63 which operated from the cc to Kilternan. The buses carried very few passengers other than adding additional capacity on the n11 the buses also used to right at Donnybrook depot then operate down Angelsea Road to Ballsbridge thus adding additional capacity between Ballsbridge and town.

I do see that the 63 service is a popular local route. That isn't to say that Kilternan doesn't also have the 44 and the variations there of. So, it does have a direct route into town ex Enniskerry.

Stephen15 wrote: »

This route was quite logically withdrawn from the cc and now operates as a popular route to DL instead of the CC. After it was withdrawn places like Kilternan, Ballyogan, Carrickmines

Carrickmines and Ballyogan where left out in the cold as they are medium to large retail and urban centers. The Luas is a great transport link. However, given that the car park, particularly in Carrickmines is now reaching capacity is indicative of unexplored public transport demand. Now, not all car journeys to Carrickmines would have a suitable public transport alternative due to many of the heavy loads being carried from furniture shops and electronics boutiques.

Having said that, where the shopper is carrying items below a certain weight, there is no reason why these journeys couldn't be replaced by a public transport alternative. Perhaps, an additional variant of the 44 could take up role and operate via Ballyogan, Sandyford, Stillorgan, UCD and Donnybrook. This is the most obvious alignment permutation and yes, it would largely overlap with the 47 from Stillorgan onwards.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Dalkey lost a direct service to UCD, Donnybrook and Ballsbridge. I would imagine a route from Dalkey into Town via the n11 would have a similar result.

Dalkey still does have a direct service albeit with negligible effect because there is only one journey per direction Monday to Friday and NO weekend services. Bottom line, if a service like this is going to operate, it should do so at a minimum of every hour Monday to Sunday.

Obviously, places like Bray, Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock are going to warrant more frequent services of 5-15 minutely given their highly urbanized nature. This also applies to areas out of reach from light or heavy rail routes so that there is an even distribution of services.

To cut a long story short, we are a long way off dissuading car usage as there are still a lot of areas which lack adequate contingency plans. There will come a time when there is a congestion charge in Dublin City. When that happens, the suburbs need to be far more prepared than at present.

devnull

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I'm not saying that a direct service from Dalkey to Damastown exclusively should be introduced. I was saying that the current 2 and sometimes 2 and a half hour combined journey lengths each way needs to be cut significantly. If aligned correctly, a bus service could cover the purpose of this end-to-end commute in an hour while taking in key locations en route.

But realistically though you are not going to be able to provide a quick journey time between every single suburb or residential area and every single industrial area or workplace, no matter how hard you try. Realistically, how many people from Dalkey are working in Damastown? Very very little I would suggest.

Certainly there is improvements needed to the network and an increase in frequency of orbital routes, of which the BusConnects plan and the 35% increased on the GoAhead routes will help, but a quick link between each residential area and each business place is not going to happen, improvements will happen certainly, ultopia unfortunately not.

Stephen15

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The meandering of the 75 adds significantly to the journey length. This is where the 175 should come in. The Go Ahead version of the 175 only goes from UCD to Citywest when it should start from Dun Laoghaire. UCD is indeed a much needed stop off point. But, it shouldn't be the terminus. At the end of the day, a 90 minute journey length is far too long for an orbital route and needs to operate more sensibly.

Citywest/Tallaght/Dundrum to DL via UCD would take even longer than the current 75. The 75 between DL and Dundrum actually takes a reletively direct route its only really west of Dundrum when the meandering begins. Not many use the 75 to go from terminus to terminus rather its used predominately to make in between journeys such as DL to Dundrum, Dundrum to Nutgrove, Nutgrove to Tallaght etc.

I'm not saying that a direct service from Dalkey to Damastown exclusively should be introduced. I was saying that the current 2 and sometimes 2 and a half hour combined journey lengths each way needs to be cut significantly. If aligned correctly, a bus service could cover the purpose of this end-to-end commute in an hour while taking in key locations en route.

See Devnulls post

The exact same thing could be said vice versa. There is always going to be some overlap with existing routes. The added benefit would be that the combined frequency makes the trunk routes more reliable. For example, Finnegan Bray has a huge amount of crossover with the existing 45, 84, 145 and 45A routes. Nevertheless, it serves to augment the level of service along specific stretches adding more reliability to these stretches.

The Finegans service is a joke when comes to an intergrated public transport service. No Leap cards accepted and the buses are all ancient rustbucket minibuses and no weekend service. I was at a bus stop one day waiting for a 145 to Bray and a Finegans minibus went by and not a single person put they're hand out either because they were using Leap or didn't even know the service existed and the bus was just a normal minibus on private hire.

I do see that the 63 service is a popular local route. That isn't to say that Kilternan doesn't also have the 44 and the variations there of. So, it does have a direct route into town ex Enniskerry.

But not to UCD, Donnybrook or Stillorgan

Carrickmines and Ballyogan where left out in the cold as they are medium to large retail and urban centers. The Luas is a great transport link. However, given that the car park, particularly in Carrickmines is now reaching capacity is indicative of unexplored public transport demand. Now, not all car journeys to Carrickmines would have a suitable public transport alternative due to many of the heavy loads being carried from furniture shops and electronics boutiques.

Having said that, where the shopper is carrying items below a certain weight, there is no reason why these journeys couldn't be replaced by a public transport alternative. Perhaps, an additional variant of the 44 could take up role and operate via Ballyogan, Sandyford, Stillorgan, UCD and Donnybrook. This is the most obvious alignment permutation and yes, it would largely overlap with the 47 from Stillorgan onwards.

And the resources would come from? That route would never be viable anyway.

Dalkey still does have a direct service albeit with negligible effect because there is only one journey per direction Monday to Friday and NO weekend services. Bottom line, if a service like this is going to operate, it should do so at a minimum of every hour Monday to Sunday.

Obviously, places like Bray, Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock are going to warrant more frequent services of 5-15 minutely given their highly urbanized nature. This also applies to areas out of reach from light or heavy rail routes so that there is an even distribution of services.

To cut a long story short, we are a long way off dissuading car usage as there are still a lot of areas which lack adequate contingency plans. There will come a time when there is a congestion charge in Dublin City. When that happens, the suburbs need to be far more prepared than at present.

That was a typo I made I meant to day Kilternan, Carrickmines and Ballyogan. Most places in Dublin could only dream of having a Dart or Luas connection. Dalkey has that it dosen't need a bus connection aswell as that would be a waste of resources which would deprive other areas that need it more of a decent bus service.

Stephen15

I was thinking of a few tweaks I would make there recently and one of them would be to bring back the 4a. Have the 4 go its current routing to Monkstown avenue and introduce a new 4a to Cornelscourt. Interwork the timetables and increase the frequency on the 4/a to every 10 mins during the week, every 15 mins on a Saturday and every 20 mins on a Sunday.

This would mean the 84 would only have to go as far as Brides Glen Luas as my proposed 4a would serve the schools, Clonkeen Road and Deansgrange meaning that the 84 could increase its frequency as it wouldn't be as long a route and it could directly serve Brides Glen Luas Stop as passengers would no longer have to walk up to the stop.

hytrogen

I know they amalgamated some of the stops onto the 44 but the 48a back in the day was a good service through Dundrum from town up the hills and around Ballinteer. With the increased population around that area now plus the various park and rides it could do with a resurrection to go via Donnybrook / Ballsbridge into town.

patrickbrophy18

Stephen15 wrote: »

Citywest/Tallaght/Dundrum to DL via UCD would take even longer than the current 75. The 75 between DL and Dundrum actually takes a reletively direct route its only really west of Dundrum when the meandering begins. Not many use the 75 to go from terminus to terminus rather its used predominately to make in between journeys such as DL to Dundrum, Dundrum to Nutgrove, Nutgrove to Tallaght etc.



See Devnulls post



The Finegans service is a joke when comes to an intergrated public transport service. No Leap cards accepted and the buses are all ancient rustbucket minibuses and no weekend service. I was at a bus stop one day waiting for a 145 to Bray and a Finegans minibus went by and not a single person put they're hand out either because they were using Leap or didn't even know the service existed and the bus was just a normal minibus on private hire.




But not to UCD, Donnybrook or Stillorgan



And the resources would come from? That route would never be viable anyway.



That was a typo I made I meant to day Kilternan, Carrickmines and Ballyogan. Most places in Dublin could only dream of having a Dart or Luas connection. Dalkey has that it dosen't need a bus connection aswell as that would be a waste of resources which would deprive other areas that need it more of a decent bus service.

Having gone back over my previous posts, the above sentiment is a complete u-turn on your observation made almost a year ago (below):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101309290&postcount=110

I even stood up for you when you were harshly criticized!

Stephen15

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Having gone back over my previous posts, the above sentiment is a complete u-turn on your observation made almost a year ago (below):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101309290&postcount=110

I even stood up for you when you were harshly criticized!

A service from Dalkey to UCD might work but definitely a one that goes into the cc wouldn't. I haven't fully gone on my word I still think the 111 for example is a poor service for Dalkey and a more direct service to Bride's Glen would make sense especially with the up and coming development there.

People change their opinions I was younger then and put less thought into my posts. I used to post a lot without thinking logically. Even that psot I made a mont ago I would have more thought into now. I'm sorry if I offended you.

patrickbrophy18

Stephen15 wrote: »

A service from Dalkey to UCD might work but definitely a one that goes into the cc wouldn't. I haven't fully gone on my word I still think the 111 for example is a poor service for Dalkey and a more direct service to Bride's Glen would make sense especially with the up and coming development there.

Agreed for the most part! The 111 is ticking quite a few wrong boxes. It appears to take forever to get from Dalkey to Brides Glen. Hopefully, Go-Ahead will see sense and divvy it up into more dedicated routes while at the same time keeping it profit making.

Stephen15 wrote: »

People change their opinions I was younger then and put less thought into my posts. I used to post a lot without thinking logically. Even that psot I made a mont ago I would have more thought into now. I'm sorry if I offended you.

You didn't really offend me as such. Anyway, change is interesting. After all, if there was no change, life would be very boring altogether!