the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

Breezer · 22-04-2021 2:08pm

My rear derailleur is catching and moving forwards when freewheeling. Video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jfk1yhm2op8402b/IMG_5613.mov?dl=0. This started after I cleaned the chain and lubed it up again. I definitely used too much lube.

I've searched online and read that a dirty freehub body is the most likely cause, which would make sense. However, I have a separate problem in that I can't get my cassette off! It won't budge and I managed to bend my chainwhip before giving up because I didn't want to damage the cassette (if I haven't already...)

So I've cleaned the drivetrain as best I can without removing the cassette. Put it all back together and the video is the result.

I guess I'm asking if anyone can confirm a dirty freehub body is the likely cause, before I start all over again. And also, any ideas for a stuck cassette?

gaffmaster · 22-04-2021 3:09pm

I had this problem the winter before last on a Mavic Aksium rear wheel. "Wheel Suck" I think is what people call it, and essentially, the free hub internals need a clean and regrease. Had that done and it worked perfectly again after.

Some wheel freehubs can be accessed without removing the cassette - someone with better knowledge can provide more info perhaps?

Type 17 · 22-04-2021 3:24pm

Yes, definitely a dirty freehub.

For the tight cassette, straighten out your chainwhip(!), and use a lever on the cassette lockring tool that is at least as long as the chainwhip.

Have a look at the below pic, and stand with the wheel/tools in this position.

If a good push down on your right arm isn't doing it, you need to jerk it free (rather than just pushing harder), so lift the wheel up about 6 inches/15cm and slam it down on the ground hard (ensure tyre is pumped up!), following through with your body-weight on your right arm only. You may need to do this a few times to get it to budge. Most cassettes have toothed facing surfaces on the lockring & outer sprocket, so it's easy to over-tighten them and to need to open it this way, but they are built to take your entire effort, so you won't snap anything, once a tool doesn't slip.

F0V9G2XHTNO6RXV.jpg?auto=webp&frame=1&width=900&height=1024&fit=bounds&md=0a23efc25759a64f59342fa94dd7577e

F0V9G2XHTNO6RXV.jpg?auto=webp&frame=1&width=900&height=1024&fit=bounds&md=0a23efc25759a64f59342fa94dd7577e

Breezer · 22-04-2021 3:27pm

Thanks guys. I live a 5 minute walk from my LBS so I brought it there, they got the cassette off in 5 seconds and I bought a new chain whip to say thank you! I've cleaned the freehub body and it's working fine now.

I didn't actually take the freehub body off (it's a Shimano Deore hub, which I think is sealed?) Do I need to regrease it?

ironictoaster · 22-04-2021 3:43pm

Does this sound normal? Concerned as it's only back from service from my local bike shop. I can't see anything rubbing!

https://streamable.com/88mqpz

magicbastarder · 22-04-2021 3:49pm

is the guide jockey wheel lining up with the smallest sprocket on the cassette? and does it only occur when the chain is on the smallest sprocket?

Type 17 · 22-04-2021 3:51pm

Breezer wrote: »

Thanks guys. I live a 5 minute walk from my LBS so I brought it there, they got the cassette off in 5 seconds and I bought a new chain whip to say thank you! I've cleaned the freehub body and it's working fine now.

I didn't actually take the freehub body off (it's a Shimano Deore hub, which I think is sealed?) Do I need to regrease it?

If it's a sealed Shimano one, then it's not practical to open and you won't be able to get actual grease into it, but reasonably thick oil (dribble-oil from a bottle, rather than thin aerosol stuff) will be fine.
If it's still on the wheel, then you need to take out the axle and put oil between the bearing cup and the outer body and spin it around - add more and spin it again a few times. Listen out for gritty grinding noises (dirt in bearings). If you have taken the freehub off the wheel (remove axle and use a 10/12mm Allen wrench in the drive side), you can also oil the inner (spoke-side) bearings - lift the rubber seal on that side carefully with a toothpick or similar and dribble oil in.

If things are really gritty, and the freehub still sticks, the industrial method/last resort is to remove it from the wheel, spray in loads of degreaser to wash everything out, blow through the gaps with a compressed air nozzle, (degrease and blow through again, if required), and then rinse with fresh water and blow through to dry it out before oiling (washing with water is required, as degreaser will break down the oil causing future damage from no real lubrication).

Type 17 · 22-04-2021 3:59pm

ironictoaster wrote: »

Does this sound normal? Concerned as it's only back from service from my local bike shop. I can't see anything rubbing!

https://streamable.com/88mqpz

Is it a steady rubbing noise, or is it a random gritty noise (it's hard to hear, even with headphones)?
If you (or the LBS) sprays lube into the freehub/freewheel, it's possible to wash dirt into the bearings and for it to make a gritty noise whilst pedalling - even though the freehub bearings aren't rotating during pedalling, they do squirm about as the load rotates about the freehub's axis, causing any grit present to get crushed noisily.

Edit: listened again, and it does sound like gritty bearings (as mentioned to Breezer above). It'll be worst on the smallest sprocket as the load on the outermost end of the freehub causes more squirming/movement, but will be audible in most gears.

ironictoaster · 22-04-2021 4:14pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

is the guide jockey wheel lining up with the smallest sprocket on the cassette? and does it only occur when the chain is on the smallest sprocket?

Looks in line to me

It seems to get quieter as you go up the gears.

https://streamable.com/nme71j

Breezer · 22-04-2021 5:00pm

Type 17 wrote: »

If it's a sealed Shimano one, then it's not practical to open and you won't be able to get actual grease into it, but reasonably thick oil (dribble-oil from a bottle, rather than thin aerosol stuff) will be fine.
If it's still on the wheel, then you need to take out the axle and put oil between the bearing cup and the outer body and spin it around - add more and spin it again a few times. Listen out for gritty grinding noises (dirt in bearings). If you have taken the freehub off the wheel (remove axle and use a 10/12mm Allen wrench in the drive side), you can also oil the inner (spoke-side) bearings - lift the rubber seal on that side carefully with a toothpick or similar and dribble oil in.

If things are really gritty, and the freehub still sticks, the industrial method/last resort is to remove it from the wheel, spray in loads of degreaser to wash everything out, blow through the gaps with a compressed air nozzle, (degrease and blow through again, if required), and then rinse with fresh water and blow through to dry it out before oiling (washing with water is required, as degreaser will break down the oil causing future damage from no real lubrication).

Thanks. I ended up only having to scrub the outside of the freehub body and it's fine now, just been out on it and all good.

Of course, I managed to overtighten the lock ring when putting the cassette back on, and now can't get it off again. Job for another day. I'm special today

CramCycle · 22-04-2021 5:40pm

ironictoaster wrote: »

Looks in line to me
It seems to get quieter as you go up the gears.
https://streamable.com/nme71j

Cross chaining or an alignment issue.?

ironictoaster · 22-04-2021 8:04pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Cross chaining or an alignment issue.?

I have no idea to be honest. I am usually in the 4th hardest gear in the big chain ring 90% of the time.

I rarely use my hardest or easiest gear in both chain rings so I can't see myself cross chaining.

Mundo7976 · 22-04-2021 8:09pm

Maybe try turning the barrel adjuster slightly, quarter turns at a time?

CramCycle · 22-04-2021 8:40pm

ironictoaster wrote: »

I have no idea to be honest. I am usually in the 4th hardest gear in the big chain ring 90% of the time.

I rarely use my hardest or easiest gear in both chain rings so I can't see myself cross chaining.

Sorry, badly explained, I mean its an alignment issue and its is relieved/exacerbated by cross chaining in your video, if that makes sense. Just an idea but it sounds like my 9 speed when it wasn't aligned.

ironictoaster · 22-04-2021 10:07pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Sorry, badly explained, I mean its an alignment issue and its is relieved/exacerbated by cross chaining in your video, if that makes sense. Just an idea but it sounds like my 9 speed when it wasn't aligned.

Sorry Cram. I'm still new to cycling. First bike since I was a child. What do you think needs to be alligned exactly?

I am completely out of my depth with bike maintenance outside cleaning and lubing the chain!

magicbastarder · 22-04-2021 10:19pm

the reason i asked why it was only in the smallest cog when you heard the noise was that there are limit screws on the derailleur - no matter how the derailleur is adjusted with cable tension, etc., the limit screws prevent the derailleur from moving outside its high and low limits. i.e. to prevent the chain going past the largest or smallest cogs. so you can play with the limit screw which won't adjust the indexing in other gears, but it could prevent it from aligning with the smallest cog, and sounding 'chatty'.

Mundo7976 · 23-04-2021 12:14am

ironictoaster wrote: »

Sorry Cram. I'm still new to cycling. First bike since I was a child. What do you think needs to be alligned exactly?

I am completely out of my depth with bike maintenance outside cleaning and lubing the chain!

Cal Jones might be able to help you out, thorough video helped me out.
https://youtu.be/UkZxPIZ1ngY

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 10:57am

Confirmed rear derailleur cable snapped at the hoods. So off to find a replacement cable. Might as well replace the front as well.

Should I replace the outers as well? If I don't have to I can possible route the cable through without having to rip off my bar tape?

magicbastarder · 23-04-2021 11:02am

the outers were not a factor in the break i assume? when were they last changed?

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 11:18am

magicbastarder wrote: »

the outers were not a factor in the break i assume? when were they last changed?

Never been changed. Bike is 18 months old. Cable snapped where it joins the hood it appears

Pdoghue · 23-04-2021 12:26pm

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Some of the earlier BH Quartz had QR before they switched to thru-axle. Which is yours? AFAIK they always used 1.125 to 1.5 tapered steerers. This type of carbon fork with thru-axles is the de-facto standard now and on almost every new mid to high level disc brake bike. It should be fairly easy to find, even from BH!

Mine is quick release. The part seems be "Quartz Evo Disc Integrated Tapered Full Carbon 1.5"

BH Bikes themselves don't stock this: https://www.bhbikes.com/en_GB/equipment/cycling-components/forks-mtbs-road-bicycles

Plus they weren't very helpful in trying to help me source the fork. They told me to contact the nearest BH agents. I've emailed about 10 of them so far and none have replied.

Large bottle small glass · 23-04-2021 12:34pm

MangleBadger wrote: »

Never been changed. Bike is 18 months old. Cable snapped where it joins the hood it appears

There is no point having expensive and precisely engineered Italian or Japanese technology at either end of your bike if you don't properly maintain what connects them.

Regularly changing both inners and outers will ensure better shifting (even with lower end shifters and derailleurs) and give a longer lifespan for your shifters.

Buried gear cables are a backwards step in terms of function and ease of maintenance; 7800 FTW

cletus · 23-04-2021 12:38pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

There is no point having expensive and precisely engineered Italian or Japanese technology at either end of your bike if you don't properly maintain what connects them.

Regularly changing both inners and outers will ensure better shifting (even with lower end shifters and derailleurs) and give a longer lifespan for your shifters.

Buried gear cables are a backwards step in terms of function and ease of maintenance; 7800 FTW

In fairness, I wouldn't think that a bike would need to have inner and outers changed after only 18 months

07Lapierre · 23-04-2021 1:09pm

cletus wrote: »

In fairness, I wouldn't think that a bike would need to have inner and outers changed after only 18 months

Depends on how much cycling you’ve done in the 18 months?

Large bottle small glass · 23-04-2021 1:20pm

cletus wrote: »

In fairness, I wouldn't think that a bike would need to have inner and outers changed after only 18 months

Depends on a lot of things; distance covered, riding conditions, storage conditions, mudguards, inner/outer interface location etc.

I have a road bike which is only out in dry weather and has lubed Dura ace cables, that's a very different proposition to my gravel bike which is out in all types of weather.

I've had mtb which saw a lot of muck and sh1t which had inner cables changed and lubed every few spins.

I put 15k km trouble free over 18 montgs on a tiagra equipped bike with zero maintenance and all weathers but it had a single run of Dura ace inners & outers from shifters to derailleurs cable tied to the frame! Even I struggled with the aesthetics of that

Type 17 · 23-04-2021 1:21pm

Given that the rear inner cable has failed, there's a fair few km's on the bike (or the cable was a stainless steel one, which can fail sooner).

If the gears were working well until they began acting up recently (because the cable was failing and loose wire strands were getting stuck in the shifter mechanism), then I'd leave the outers that are under the bar tape for now.
If the part of the failed inner cable that is in the bit of housing that leads to the rear derailleur itself is dirty or rusty, then I would change this piece of housing, as it gets a lot of road-spray, and is the other main cause of issues (as well as the inner failing at the shifter end).

PS: It's not necessary to change the front derailleur inner cable (unless there are issues), as the usage patterns are quite different than the rear derailleur (al lot less on the front, for most people).

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 1:31pm

Done just over 7000km to date. So probably about time to replace. What is the benefit in also replacing outers?

CramCycle · 23-04-2021 1:35pm

MangleBadger wrote: »

Done just over 7000km to date. So probably about time to replace. What is the benefit in also replacing outers?

Cleaner, if there is grit or water or whatever in them, it will increase the lifespan of your new cables. I wouldn't do it that often though, even on a dirty bike, most people I know some just blast through the outers with a spray like GT85. I never maintain them so this advice isn't followed by myself.

magicbastarder · 23-04-2021 1:44pm

my good weather bike was cabled up over two and a half years ago, but not taken out if rain is forecast; and i've zero plans to re-cable it, it's performing fine.

Type 17 · 23-04-2021 1:44pm

Also the plastic liner inside the housing wears through on the inner radius of curves, so even a clean section of housing up high won’t last forever.

I have (decent quality Shimano SLR) brake and gear cables that are over 25 years old still working fine, although the bike does’t see much rain and the gears are 7-speed (less precision required).

07Lapierre · 23-04-2021 1:53pm

MangleBadger wrote: »

Done just over 7000km to date. So probably about time to replace. What is the benefit in also replacing outers?

Housings wear out too. they wont break but the inner sleeve will wear excessively where the cable bends.
Are your cables routed internally? if yes...replace the outer housing BEFORE you remove the inner cable from the frame (use the inner cable to guide in the new housing)

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 2:03pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Housings wear out too. they wont break but the inner sleeve will wear excessively where the cable bends.
Are your cables routed internally? if yes...replace the outer housing BEFORE you remove the inner cable from the frame (use the inner cable to guide in the new housing)

Yes cables are internally routed to an extent, just through the down tube.
My main sport is sailing so I've a fair bit of experience in trying to feed cables/ropes through tubes. I'm hoping this will stand by me later on.

Only real issue I have with replacing outers is my current ones are orange and match the bike. Guess I'll have to settle for black.

magicbastarder · 23-04-2021 2:09pm

you should be able to get orange housings.

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 2:53pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

you should be able to get orange housings.

I'm very impatient though. Was planning on popping out to a shop this afternoon to pick up the parts.

What would be a good LBS in Dublin for these sort of parts?

magicbastarder · 23-04-2021 2:54pm

which side of dublin are you? cycle superstore in tallaght would be one of the biggest, so might have wider stock.

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 2:56pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

which side of dublin are you? cycle superstore in tallaght would be one of the biggest, so might have wider stock.

I'm southside, that was where I was thinking of going. Cheers

ironictoaster · 23-04-2021 3:02pm

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Cal Jones might be able to help you out, thorough video helped me out.
https://youtu.be/UkZxPIZ1ngY

Think I'm sorted. Half turn with the adjuster seemed to fix it. Any noise the bike makes has me paranoid!

Tombo2001 · 23-04-2021 3:05pm

As a matter of interest - which is the largest northside bike shop, best stocked.....

I dont mean city centre, capel street etc. Lets say, beyond the canal?

It might actually be Decathlon, I cant think of any others that are large.

magicbastarder · 23-04-2021 3:22pm

highest number of bikes on display, might be eurocycles out beside airside shopping centre. but i've never warmed to the place.

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 6:15pm

Next stupid question. Only cassette I could get my hands on was 11-36 and my current is 11-34. I presume my old chain won’t fit. Is there a standard number of links to add or do I just measure from scratch?

Type 17 · 23-04-2021 6:26pm

Your chain might fit, but if you can't get it go onto big ring/biggest sprocket, don't ride it like that - I've seen frames destroyed as the rider thought it would be ok, but then forgot/didn't realise what gear they were in on a hill, and went down one more sprocket, pushing hard, as you do on a steep hill, and the (carbon) chainstay collapsed :eek:

If you do need to add links, use the "measure on big/big without the rear derailleur and then add two links" method.

magicbastarder · 23-04-2021 6:33pm

Would be standard to replace the chain of you're replacing the cassette anyway.

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 7:06pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

Would be standard to replace the chain of you're replacing the cassette anyway.

Planning on replacing chain. Last time I just counted links on the old chain and matched that to the new chain.

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 8:04pm

So I’ve obviously missed something in routing my new gear cable.
Nothing happens when I shift up or down. As in there is no action from the cable. And no audible click. I just ran it through the hood from the eye on the outside of it and through the existing outers.

Any ideas?

CramCycle · 23-04-2021 9:36pm

MangleBadger wrote: »

So I’ve obviously missed something in routing my new gear cable.
Nothing happens when I shift up or down. As in there is no action from the cable. And no audible click. I just ran it through the hood from the eye on the outside of it and through the existing outers.

Any ideas?

Depends on the gear you are using but I imagine you have simply not caught it inside the shifter

MangleBadger · 23-04-2021 9:54pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Depends on the gear you are using but I imagine you have simply not caught it inside the shifter

That is kind of what I thought. How do I force it to catch inside?

07Lapierre · 23-04-2021 11:03pm

MangleBadger wrote: »

That is kind of what I thought. How do I force it to catch inside?

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/-PBSku77uBI

Rua_ri · 23-04-2021 11:12pm

Has anybody fitted gp5000 tubeless tyres to mavic kysrium wheels?

I can't even get one side of the tyre over the rim.

MangleBadger · 24-04-2021 11:24am

New cable issue fixed. There old end of the cable was still inside and I think it had jammed the barrel from rotating. Took off the cover and it popped out and good as new.
Now i just need to index it. Which I hate.

Thanks for all pointers.

DaveyDave · 24-04-2021 11:38am

Dropped the bike into the shop last week, after fitting a new cassette and chain the chain would drop off the big ring. Gears were shifting fine etc. Bike shop says the big ring needs replacing.

I trust them not trying to upsell me parts (especially since the won't have them til next month!) but surprised it's worn. Bike has about 5,000km on it and the new chain is the third one as I try to change at 2,000-2,500km.

Is it common for a big ring to wear that soon? Would it be cross chaining or not cleaning enough? I try to avoid the lowest two gears when in the big ring but I'm sure I've been in the big big combo plenty of times.

the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

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