Shutting door after horse has bolted.

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-11-2019 11:00pm #1

Hi lads,

So, as title suggests, I was burgled today, kids are heartbroken at what's been taken and I don't want to feel like this again. I live in rural Co. Kilkenny, they broke in via the back window. No alarm, so I'm thinking I need to get myself a monitored alarm or even self monitored alarm fitted as I'm not sure an alarm going off would attract anyone's attention.

House is a Bog standard 3 bed 80s bungalow, just a wondered if anyone had any advice about what I should be looking for, I'd probably need to get an installer because I doubt I'd be able to do it myself. Are phonewatch good, seen a few of their alarm boxes around, monitoring costs prohibitive? Or is there another national company that would be competitive.

Sorry, this post is all over the shop. Any advice gratefully received.

kub · 05-11-2019 11:18pm

Firstly, sorry to learn of your trouble.

Ok first off, well done on having the wisdom to come here to seek advice. Knee jerk reactions can sometimes lead to wrong decisions.

The best system to invest in is one which will cover all of your perimeter doors and windows, therefore a system which you can switch on, while in the house and have full mobility within, with the alarm active around you.

Phonewatch do what they do, they charge well for it at approx 40 Euro a month for a system which you will never actually own and one which you will not be able to do as I mentioned earlier.

My best advice to you is to get written quotations from at least 3 PSA registered Installers in your own area, in Kilkenny you should find them.
Ask friends/ realtives for recommendations, just remember that empty vessels make most noise.

As regard monitoring, ok you can of course go down the professional route, we have over 20 private monitoring stations in the country of which any installer can connect you to.
That is the ideal route but if you do not want that then at the very least do please get some sort of self notification.

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-11-2019 11:32pm

Thanks

I'll have a look tomorrow online at installers. I'm definitely going monitored either self or professionally based, it's just my lack of funds and up front installation costs which will limit my choices I think.

05-11-2019 11:36pm

Have you got electric gates?
If not that's where I'd put my money first.

Odelay · 05-11-2019 11:40pm

BrownFinger wrote: »

Have you got electric gates?
If not that's where I'd put my money first.

Fiddly things when sliding, can be pushed open when hinged.

Sleeper12 · 05-11-2019 11:54pm

What about a HKC alarm. App on your phone warns you if the alarm goes off. You can turn on & off the alarm via the app. Your wife can have the app too.

I've never been a fan of phone watch. It seems to appeal to OAPs more so than anyone else.

pm1977x · 05-11-2019 11:58pm

Phonewatch is terrible now, next to no user control over zones etc, price keeps going up, had mine removed and went with HKC, much happier (although questionable polling times with HKC). A few other good systems available such as Siemens.

The forum sticky on HCK vs Siemens is well worth a read to inform yourself.

edit: sorry about the burglary, horrible situation.

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-11-2019 11:59pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What about a HKC alarm. App on your phone warns you if the alarm goes off. You can turn on & off the alarm via the app. Your wife can have the app too.

I've never been a fan of phone watch. It seems to appeal to OAPs more so than anyone else.

Yeah, I'm clueless really, i need to do some googling about what's out there once my head stops spinning.

kub · 06-11-2019 12:01am

BrownFinger wrote: »

Have you got electric gates?
If not that's where I'd put my money first.

Please, an automatic gate is more a convenience rather than a security solution.
It will not notify anyone or draw attention if someone opens it, overrides the manual release or decides to hop over the wall or adjoining ditch to get at the house.
Believe me, 30 years of working on Intruder Alarms / CCTV/ Intercoms/ Access Control/ Automatic Gates / Barriers.
This poster requires a home security system not an automatic gate.

Sleeper12 · 06-11-2019 12:09am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote:

Yeah, I'm clueless really, i need to do some googling about what's out there once my head stops spinning.

I'm no expert myself. I was just making the suggestion & I was hoping the experts would say yay or nay. I have HKC for the last year and I'm happy with it. We added heat detection & fire alarm to the system. App is now 65 euro per year.

I am in 6 to 8 homes doing appliance repair and I noticed years ago that phone watch was an OAP favourite

kub · 06-11-2019 12:15am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm no expert myself. I was just making the suggestion & I was hoping the experts would say yay or nay. I have HKC for the last year and I'm happy with it. We added heat detection & fire alarm to the system. App is now 65 euro per year.

I am in 6 to 8 homes doing appliance repair and I noticed years ago that phone watch was an OAP favourite

You are correct, the OAP's have the time to listen to the PW Reps at their front doors and believe what they come out with.

Without doubt HKC is the ideal solution for a domestic installation.

Tom Mann Centuria · 06-11-2019 7:59am

So, for a decent middle of the road installation would you good people think am I looking a long way north of €700 euro?

Didn't sleep much, too busy playing a game of "oh yeah that's gone too".

Edit: please feel free to lock this thread mods if it annoys, I know I asked what had been asked before, a lot, and apologies to the regulars here, going over the same ground.

henryporter · 06-11-2019 8:06am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

So, for a decent middle of the road installation would you good people think am I looking north of €700 euro?

Didn't sleep much, too busy playing a game of "oh yeah that's gone too".

Have a HKC system installed since May this year - Panel, 2 doors, 9 windows, PIR, smoke detector, and battery operated bell box with self notification via phone app came to just shy of twice that - best to get a few quotes as each case is different. Very happy with the system in general - peace of mind is hard to put a price on. Sorry to hear about the burglary - nothing worse

Tom Mann Centuria · 06-11-2019 8:08am

henryporter wrote: »

Have a HKC system installed since May this year - Panel, 2 doors, 9 windows, PIR, smoke detector, and battery operated bell box with self notification via phone app came to just shy of twice that - best to get a few quotes as each case is different. Very happy with the system in general - peace of mind is hard to put a price on. Sorry to hear about the burglary - nothing worse

Thanks. Yeah, guessed I was way too optimistic price wise.

Stoner · 06-11-2019 8:32am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote:

Edit: please feel free to lock this thread mods if it annoys, I know I asked what had been asked before, a lot, and apologies to the regulars here, going over the same ground.

Work away Tom. Sorry to hear about the break in.

To get anything close to decent for 700 your house would need to be wired, so less expensive kit.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-11-2019 8:46am

Sorry to hear about your break in.

One of the aims of your security set up should be to make your house look like an unattractive option for burglars.

Make it look like it’s not worth their time to break into it, they just want an easy target.

- outdoor motion security lighting

- landscaping, remove any areas of cover/remove clutter around exterior of house

- House alarm (home insurance might be discounted as well once installed)

- cctv

- interior timer lights

- get a dog (if this is something that fits with your family)

Even if cctv and alarm are not an option financially for some people then these can still be faked with dummy units and window decals (this is better than nothing and may be enough to move them along to the next target).

Sleeper12 · 06-11-2019 8:53am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

So, for a decent middle of the road installation would you good people think am I looking a long way north of €700 euro?

Mine is an unusual bigger setup. I have a mixture of pre wired & wireless fittings. Wireless being much more expensive than wired. Velux windows are wonderful for light but with 8 in the house & all had to be wireless, a wireless fire alarm & wireless heat alarm. I think mine was around 1500 but it's very difficult to compare mine to yours.

06-11-2019 8:54am

kub wrote: »

Please, an automatic gate is more a convenience rather than a security solution.
It will not notify anyone or draw attention if someone opens it, overrides the manual release or decides to hop over the wall or adjoining ditch to get at the house.

Are you honestly saying that gates offer no security ?
So you'd be happy letting the scum come up your driveway unhindered.
Especially in the countryside.
BTW I've a gate,alarm and cctv.

Tom Mann Centuria · 06-11-2019 8:58am

Anderson Tasty Caribou wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your break in.

One of the aims of your security set up should be to make your house look like an unattractive option for burglars.

Make it look like it’s not worth their time to break into it, they just want an easy target.

- outdoor motion security lighting

- landscaping, remove any areas of cover/remove clutter around exterior of house

- House alarm (home insurance might be discounted as well once installed)

- cctv

- interior timer lights

- get a dog (if this is something that fits with your family)

Even if cctv and alarm are not an option financially for some people then these can still be faked with dummy units and window decals (this is better than nothing and may be enough to move them along to the next target).

Good general advice thanks, as a family we have been lackadaisical with security so it's a big wakeup call.

Have a dog, and I'd have been more upset if she'd have been there! If they'd have took her, which they could of, she's soft as muck, that would have been worse than anything else they took. So there's a positive in a negative situation I suppose.

kub · 06-11-2019 9:06am

BrownFinger wrote: »

Are you honestly saying that gates offer no security ?
So you'd be happy letting the scum come up your driveway unhindered.
Especially in the countryside.
BTW I've a gate,alarm and cctv.

I have been doing automatic gate systems for the last 30 odd years.
I have also been doing intruder alarms, CCTV and all the rest.
Automatic gates are way down the pecking order with regard to the various security options.
Are you suggesting that because someone cannot get a vehicle into someone's driveway that they will be immune to a burglary?

kub · 06-11-2019 9:10am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Good general advice thanks, as a family we have been lackadaisical with security so it's a big wakeup call.

Have a dog, and I'd have been more upset if she'd have been there! If they'd have took her, which they could of, she's soft as muck, that would have been worse than anything else they took. So there's a positive in a negative situation I suppose.

Do not please blame yourself, mostly unless people are flush, security systems are only installed after an event such as this whether it happened to a neighbour, family member or unfortunately themselves..

thecomedian · 06-11-2019 9:15am

kub wrote: »

Please, an automatic gate is more a convenience rather than a security solution.
It will not notify anyone or draw attention if someone opens it, overrides the manual release or decides to hop over the wall or adjoining ditch to get at the house.
Believe me, 30 years of working on Intruder Alarms / CCTV/ Intercoms/ Access Control/ Automatic Gates / Barriers.
This poster requires a home security system not an automatic gate.

It’s part of making it harder to access the house though.
You can’t stop them, only make it harder for them. I wouldn’t put someone off getting gates.

Tom Mann Centuria · 06-11-2019 9:18am

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s part of making it harder to access the house though.
You can’t stop them, only make it harder for them. I wouldn’t put someone off getting gates.

We don't currently have any gate at all(living here 16 years), and I will definitely think about it further down the line, I think I'll get the house secure first, because I actually think it'd be cheaper than me fencing/gating the front of my property at the moment.

thecomedian · 06-11-2019 9:22am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

We don't currently have any gate at all(living here 16 years), and I will definitely think about it further down the line, I think I'll get the house secure first, because I actually think it'd be cheaper than me fencing/gating the front of my property at the moment.

Definitely do that first but I wouldn’t be put off getting in gates.
In the country they see a house with hedging and gates or a house that’s open, which will they look at first.
They are only going to be a few minutes in the house.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-11-2019 10:08am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Good general advice thanks, as a family we have been lackadaisical with security so it's a big wakeup call.

Have a dog, and I'd have been more upset if she'd have been there! If they'd have took her, which they could of, she's soft as muck, that would have been worse than anything else they took. So there's a positive in a negative situation I suppose.

It's usually only after the fact so don't be hard on yourself. The feeling of intrusion (which is the worst part of all of this) will pass with time too.

In terms of wired alarms I have had HKC alarms for the past 20 years and they are good.

Have a Hikvision CCTV system covering all sides of the house and all approaches (5 x HD dome cameras). Cost about €900 fully installed by security company and took a couple of hours (expect to pay about half of that if you're able to install yourself).

kub · 06-11-2019 10:11am

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s part of making it harder to access the house though.
You can’t stop them, only make it harder for them. I wouldn’t put someone off getting gates.

I was responding to that poster, his/ her earliest contribution to this thread was to advise the OP to automate their gate first before the installation of an alarm system.

You are correct of course, as a professional in this business all we can do Is make the challenge look too difficult for them to bother and just get them to move on.

BobMc · 06-11-2019 11:28am

Sorry to here about burglarly, We've the HKC, combination of wired and few wireless (new sensors) I still need him back to add few more, First item on my list when I bought 1st house was alarm, skint we where but found the dosh, when we moved to current address, its older alarm was updated and we've updated it since, We take security pretty serious
We work bloody hard for what we have and I'm not having scumbags taking it for free

I'd also recommend some form of CCTV, we've a 4 cam system and a ring doorbell alarm

We find the HKC app great, being able to arm from app while in bed etc.

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-11-2019 6:08pm

First quote in, reassured that I've seen HKC that is a decent brand from recommendations here.

€1.625,00
Intruder Alarm. Supply and Fit self monitoring alarm system.
1 HKC Intruder Alarm Panel.
1 World Digi 11 RF Inertia Sensors
2 RF Magnetic Contacts.
1 RF Internal Sounder.
1 RF External SAAB. Including annual monitoring fee for 1 year.

€975,00
CCTV. Supply and Fit HIK Vision 4 camera kit and DVR, including link up to smart phones.

Plus VAT.

Just shy of 3000 for the lot.

Sound about what people would expect to pay/charge for this set up on a bungalow?
Waiting on additional quotes to come in.

kub · 15-11-2019 9:55pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

First quote in, reassured that I've seen HKC that is a decent brand from recommendations here.

€1.625,00
Intruder Alarm. Supply and Fit self monitoring alarm system.
1 HKC Intruder Alarm Panel.
1 World Digi 11 RF Inertia Sensors
2 RF Magnetic Contacts.
1 RF Internal Sounder.
1 RF External SAAB. Including annual monitoring fee for 1 year.

€975,00
CCTV. Supply and Fit HIK Vision 4 camera kit and DVR, including link up to smart phones.

Plus VAT.

Just shy of 3000 for the lot.

Sound about what people would expect to pay/charge for this set up on a bungalow?
Waiting on additional quotes to come in.

Hi OP,

Ok start with getting your alarm system fitted obviously after you have gotten all of the quotes back.
Just one query and that is, I noticed above that you have 11 RF Inertia Sensors listed.
Those units have integrated contacts, which means that on a window with a single opening, both the opening sash can be monitored and a vibration to the window can also be detected by this one unit.
Of course as well wired contacts and wired inertia sensors can also be connected to them.
So my query is, did that installer make it crystal clear to you that he was going to get the 11 RF Inertia Sensors to do both jobs or just 1 ?

Tom Mann Centuria · 16-11-2019 9:13am

kub wrote: »

Hi OP,

Ok start with getting your alarm system fitted obviously after you have gotten all of the quotes back.
Just one query and that is, I noticed above that you have 11 RF Inertia Sensors listed.
Those units have integrated contacts, which means that on a window with a single opening, both the opening sash can be monitored and a vibration to the window can also be detected by this one unit.
Of course as well wired contacts and wired inertia sensors can also be connected to them.
So my query is, did that installer make it crystal clear to you that he was going to get the 11 RF Inertia Sensors to do both jobs or just 1 ?

Thanks for the reply. It wasn't particularly clear, but I presumed it was to do both jobs. I have another company coming next week, and one firm gave me a quote just on the list I provided here, which was slightly cheaper, but presumably they'd want to actually come and see the house first.

kub · 16-11-2019 3:03pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. It wasn't particularly clear, but I presumed it was to do both jobs. I have another company coming next week, and one firm gave me a quote just on the list I provided here, which was slightly cheaper, but presumably they'd want to actually come and see the house first.

I would give a lot more attention to guys who actually have the interest in coming to look at the house before quoting.
They are not doing it to standard by not actually viewing your home and doing what is known as a risk assessment.

Shutting door after horse has bolted.

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