Shutting door after horse has bolted.

Tom Mann Centuria

Hi lads,

So, as title suggests, I was burgled today, kids are heartbroken at what's been taken and I don't want to feel like this again. I live in rural Co. Kilkenny, they broke in via the back window. No alarm, so I'm thinking I need to get myself a monitored alarm or even self monitored alarm fitted as I'm not sure an alarm going off would attract anyone's attention.

House is a Bog standard 3 bed 80s bungalow, just a wondered if anyone had any advice about what I should be looking for, I'd probably need to get an installer because I doubt I'd be able to do it myself. Are phonewatch good, seen a few of their alarm boxes around, monitoring costs prohibitive? Or is there another national company that would be competitive.

Sorry, this post is all over the shop. Any advice gratefully received.

kub

Firstly, sorry to learn of your trouble.


Ok first off, well done on having the wisdom to come here to seek advice. Knee jerk reactions can sometimes lead to wrong decisions.


The best system to invest in is one which will cover all of your perimeter doors and windows, therefore a system which you can switch on, while in the house and have full mobility within, with the alarm active around you.


Phonewatch do what they do, they charge well for it at approx 40 Euro a month for a system which you will never actually own and one which you will not be able to do as I mentioned earlier.


My best advice to you is to get written quotations from at least 3 PSA registered Installers in your own area, in Kilkenny you should find them.
Ask friends/ realtives for recommendations, just remember that empty vessels make most noise.


As regard monitoring, ok you can of course go down the professional route, we have over 20 private monitoring stations in the country of which any installer can connect you to.
That is the ideal route but if you do not want that then at the very least do please get some sort of self notification.

Tom Mann Centuria

Thanks

I'll have a look tomorrow online at installers. I'm definitely going monitored either self or professionally based, it's just my lack of funds and up front installation costs which will limit my choices I think.

Have you got electric gates?
If not that's where I'd put my money first.

Odelay

BrownFinger wrote: »

Have you got electric gates?
If not that's where I'd put my money first.

Fiddly things when sliding, can be pushed open when hinged.

Sleeper12

What about a HKC alarm. App on your phone warns you if the alarm goes off. You can turn on & off the alarm via the app. Your wife can have the app too.

I've never been a fan of phone watch. It seems to appeal to OAPs more so than anyone else.

pm1977x

Phonewatch is terrible now, next to no user control over zones etc, price keeps going up, had mine removed and went with HKC, much happier (although questionable polling times with HKC). A few other good systems available such as Siemens.


The forum sticky on HCK vs Siemens is well worth a read to inform yourself.

edit: sorry about the burglary, horrible situation.

Tom Mann Centuria

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What about a HKC alarm. App on your phone warns you if the alarm goes off. You can turn on & off the alarm via the app. Your wife can have the app too.

I've never been a fan of phone watch. It seems to appeal to OAPs more so than anyone else.

Yeah, I'm clueless really, i need to do some googling about what's out there once my head stops spinning.

kub

BrownFinger wrote: »

Have you got electric gates?
If not that's where I'd put my money first.

Please, an automatic gate is more a convenience rather than a security solution.
It will not notify anyone or draw attention if someone opens it, overrides the manual release or decides to hop over the wall or adjoining ditch to get at the house.
Believe me, 30 years of working on Intruder Alarms / CCTV/ Intercoms/ Access Control/ Automatic Gates / Barriers.
This poster requires a home security system not an automatic gate.

Sleeper12

Tom Mann Centuria wrote:

Yeah, I'm clueless really, i need to do some googling about what's out there once my head stops spinning.

I'm no expert myself. I was just making the suggestion & I was hoping the experts would say yay or nay. I have HKC for the last year and I'm happy with it. We added heat detection & fire alarm to the system. App is now 65 euro per year.

I am in 6 to 8 homes doing appliance repair and I noticed years ago that phone watch was an OAP favourite

kub

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm no expert myself. I was just making the suggestion & I was hoping the experts would say yay or nay. I have HKC for the last year and I'm happy with it. We added heat detection & fire alarm to the system. App is now 65 euro per year.

I am in 6 to 8 homes doing appliance repair and I noticed years ago that phone watch was an OAP favourite

You are correct, the OAP's have the time to listen to the PW Reps at their front doors and believe what they come out with.


Without doubt HKC is the ideal solution for a domestic installation.

Tom Mann Centuria

So, for a decent middle of the road installation would you good people think am I looking a long way north of €700 euro?

Didn't sleep much, too busy playing a game of "oh yeah that's gone too".


Edit: please feel free to lock this thread mods if it annoys, I know I asked what had been asked before, a lot, and apologies to the regulars here, going over the same ground.

henryporter

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

So, for a decent middle of the road installation would you good people think am I looking north of €700 euro?

Didn't sleep much, too busy playing a game of "oh yeah that's gone too".

Have a HKC system installed since May this year - Panel, 2 doors, 9 windows, PIR, smoke detector, and battery operated bell box with self notification via phone app came to just shy of twice that - best to get a few quotes as each case is different. Very happy with the system in general - peace of mind is hard to put a price on. Sorry to hear about the burglary - nothing worse

Tom Mann Centuria

henryporter wrote: »

Have a HKC system installed since May this year - Panel, 2 doors, 9 windows, PIR, smoke detector, and battery operated bell box with self notification via phone app came to just shy of twice that - best to get a few quotes as each case is different. Very happy with the system in general - peace of mind is hard to put a price on. Sorry to hear about the burglary - nothing worse

Thanks. Yeah, guessed I was way too optimistic price wise.

Stoner

Tom Mann Centuria wrote:

Edit: please feel free to lock this thread mods if it annoys, I know I asked what had been asked before, a lot, and apologies to the regulars here, going over the same ground.

Work away Tom. Sorry to hear about the break in.

To get anything close to decent for 700 your house would need to be wired, so less expensive kit.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Sorry to hear about your break in.

One of the aims of your security set up should be to make your house look like an unattractive option for burglars.

Make it look like it’s not worth their time to break into it, they just want an easy target.

- outdoor motion security lighting

- landscaping, remove any areas of cover/remove clutter around exterior of house

- House alarm (home insurance might be discounted as well once installed)

- cctv

- interior timer lights

- get a dog (if this is something that fits with your family)

Even if cctv and alarm are not an option financially for some people then these can still be faked with dummy units and window decals (this is better than nothing and may be enough to move them along to the next target).

Sleeper12

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

So, for a decent middle of the road installation would you good people think am I looking a long way north of €700 euro?

Mine is an unusual bigger setup. I have a mixture of pre wired & wireless fittings. Wireless being much more expensive than wired. Velux windows are wonderful for light but with 8 in the house & all had to be wireless, a wireless fire alarm & wireless heat alarm. I think mine was around 1500 but it's very difficult to compare mine to yours.

kub

kub wrote: »

Please, an automatic gate is more a convenience rather than a security solution.
It will not notify anyone or draw attention if someone opens it, overrides the manual release or decides to hop over the wall or adjoining ditch to get at the house.

Are you honestly saying that gates offer no security ?
So you'd be happy letting the scum come up your driveway unhindered.
Especially in the countryside.
BTW I've a gate,alarm and cctv.

Tom Mann Centuria

Anderson Tasty Caribou wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your break in.

One of the aims of your security set up should be to make your house look like an unattractive option for burglars.

Make it look like it’s not worth their time to break into it, they just want an easy target.

- outdoor motion security lighting

- landscaping, remove any areas of cover/remove clutter around exterior of house

- House alarm (home insurance might be discounted as well once installed)

- cctv

- interior timer lights

- get a dog (if this is something that fits with your family)

Even if cctv and alarm are not an option financially for some people then these can still be faked with dummy units and window decals (this is better than nothing and may be enough to move them along to the next target).

Good general advice thanks, as a family we have been lackadaisical with security so it's a big wakeup call.

Have a dog, and I'd have been more upset if she'd have been there! If they'd have took her, which they could of, she's soft as muck, that would have been worse than anything else they took. So there's a positive in a negative situation I suppose.

kub

BrownFinger wrote: »

Are you honestly saying that gates offer no security ?
So you'd be happy letting the scum come up your driveway unhindered.
Especially in the countryside.
BTW I've a gate,alarm and cctv.

I have been doing automatic gate systems for the last 30 odd years.
I have also been doing intruder alarms, CCTV and all the rest.
Automatic gates are way down the pecking order with regard to the various security options.
Are you suggesting that because someone cannot get a vehicle into someone's driveway that they will be immune to a burglary?

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Good general advice thanks, as a family we have been lackadaisical with security so it's a big wakeup call.

Have a dog, and I'd have been more upset if she'd have been there! If they'd have took her, which they could of, she's soft as muck, that would have been worse than anything else they took. So there's a positive in a negative situation I suppose.

Do not please blame yourself, mostly unless people are flush, security systems are only installed after an event such as this whether it happened to a neighbour, family member or unfortunately themselves..

thecomedian

kub wrote: »

Please, an automatic gate is more a convenience rather than a security solution.
It will not notify anyone or draw attention if someone opens it, overrides the manual release or decides to hop over the wall or adjoining ditch to get at the house.
Believe me, 30 years of working on Intruder Alarms / CCTV/ Intercoms/ Access Control/ Automatic Gates / Barriers.
This poster requires a home security system not an automatic gate.

It’s part of making it harder to access the house though.
You can’t stop them, only make it harder for them. I wouldn’t put someone off getting gates.

Tom Mann Centuria

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s part of making it harder to access the house though.
You can’t stop them, only make it harder for them. I wouldn’t put someone off getting gates.

We don't currently have any gate at all(living here 16 years), and I will definitely think about it further down the line, I think I'll get the house secure first, because I actually think it'd be cheaper than me fencing/gating the front of my property at the moment.

thecomedian

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

We don't currently have any gate at all(living here 16 years), and I will definitely think about it further down the line, I think I'll get the house secure first, because I actually think it'd be cheaper than me fencing/gating the front of my property at the moment.

Definitely do that first but I wouldn’t be put off getting in gates.
In the country they see a house with hedging and gates or a house that’s open, which will they look at first.
They are only going to be a few minutes in the house.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Good general advice thanks, as a family we have been lackadaisical with security so it's a big wakeup call.

Have a dog, and I'd have been more upset if she'd have been there! If they'd have took her, which they could of, she's soft as muck, that would have been worse than anything else they took. So there's a positive in a negative situation I suppose.

It's usually only after the fact so don't be hard on yourself. The feeling of intrusion (which is the worst part of all of this) will pass with time too.

In terms of wired alarms I have had HKC alarms for the past 20 years and they are good.

Have a Hikvision CCTV system covering all sides of the house and all approaches (5 x HD dome cameras). Cost about €900 fully installed by security company and took a couple of hours (expect to pay about half of that if you're able to install yourself).

kub

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s part of making it harder to access the house though.
You can’t stop them, only make it harder for them. I wouldn’t put someone off getting gates.

I was responding to that poster, his/ her earliest contribution to this thread was to advise the OP to automate their gate first before the installation of an alarm system.

You are correct of course, as a professional in this business all we can do Is make the challenge look too difficult for them to bother and just get them to move on.

BobMc

Sorry to here about burglarly, We've the HKC, combination of wired and few wireless (new sensors) I still need him back to add few more, First item on my list when I bought 1st house was alarm, skint we where but found the dosh, when we moved to current address, its older alarm was updated and we've updated it since, We take security pretty serious
We work bloody hard for what we have and I'm not having scumbags taking it for free

I'd also recommend some form of CCTV, we've a 4 cam system and a ring doorbell alarm



We find the HKC app great, being able to arm from app while in bed etc.

Tom Mann Centuria

First quote in, reassured that I've seen HKC that is a decent brand from recommendations here.

€1.625,00
Intruder Alarm. Supply and Fit self monitoring alarm system.
1 HKC Intruder Alarm Panel.
1 World Digi 11 RF Inertia Sensors
2 RF Magnetic Contacts.
1 RF Internal Sounder.
1 RF External SAAB. Including annual monitoring fee for 1 year.

€975,00
CCTV. Supply and Fit HIK Vision 4 camera kit and DVR, including link up to smart phones.

Plus VAT.

Just shy of 3000 for the lot.

Sound about what people would expect to pay/charge for this set up on a bungalow?
Waiting on additional quotes to come in.

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

First quote in, reassured that I've seen HKC that is a decent brand from recommendations here.

€1.625,00
Intruder Alarm. Supply and Fit self monitoring alarm system.
1 HKC Intruder Alarm Panel.
1 World Digi 11 RF Inertia Sensors
2 RF Magnetic Contacts.
1 RF Internal Sounder.
1 RF External SAAB. Including annual monitoring fee for 1 year.

€975,00
CCTV. Supply and Fit HIK Vision 4 camera kit and DVR, including link up to smart phones.

Plus VAT.

Just shy of 3000 for the lot.

Sound about what people would expect to pay/charge for this set up on a bungalow?
Waiting on additional quotes to come in.

Hi OP,


Ok start with getting your alarm system fitted obviously after you have gotten all of the quotes back.
Just one query and that is, I noticed above that you have 11 RF Inertia Sensors listed.
Those units have integrated contacts, which means that on a window with a single opening, both the opening sash can be monitored and a vibration to the window can also be detected by this one unit.
Of course as well wired contacts and wired inertia sensors can also be connected to them.
So my query is, did that installer make it crystal clear to you that he was going to get the 11 RF Inertia Sensors to do both jobs or just 1 ?

Tom Mann Centuria

kub wrote: »

Hi OP,


Ok start with getting your alarm system fitted obviously after you have gotten all of the quotes back.
Just one query and that is, I noticed above that you have 11 RF Inertia Sensors listed.
Those units have integrated contacts, which means that on a window with a single opening, both the opening sash can be monitored and a vibration to the window can also be detected by this one unit.
Of course as well wired contacts and wired inertia sensors can also be connected to them.
So my query is, did that installer make it crystal clear to you that he was going to get the 11 RF Inertia Sensors to do both jobs or just 1 ?

Thanks for the reply. It wasn't particularly clear, but I presumed it was to do both jobs. I have another company coming next week, and one firm gave me a quote just on the list I provided here, which was slightly cheaper, but presumably they'd want to actually come and see the house first.

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. It wasn't particularly clear, but I presumed it was to do both jobs. I have another company coming next week, and one firm gave me a quote just on the list I provided here, which was slightly cheaper, but presumably they'd want to actually come and see the house first.

I would give a lot more attention to guys who actually have the interest in coming to look at the house before quoting.
They are not doing it to standard by not actually viewing your home and doing what is known as a risk assessment.

Tom Mann Centuria

Would Risco be a known brand, had a quote using their equipment which is a bit cheaper.

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Would Risco be a known brand, had a quote using their equipment which is a bit cheaper.

My advice would be to look beyond the price if you can at all and go with HKC.
Risco I know of, I have worked on that stuff but HKC leaves it in its wake.

Tom Mann Centuria

kub wrote: »

My advice would be to look beyond the price if you can at all and go with HKC.
Risco I know of, I have worked on that stuff but HKC leaves it in its wake.

Yeah, although it's more expensive I'll probably go down that route. Thanks

Tom Mann Centuria

Getting my alarm fitted Monday, with a year monitoring. Costing an arm and a leg, it'll actually be the most expensive thing in my house! but I genuinely haven't felt comfortable leaving the house since the break in, and stressed walking in the house every time I get home, and that's not right.

I know houses with alarms get broken in to still but the peace of mind, of at the very worst knowing before I walk in, is worth every penny.


Thanks all here for the advice, dare say I might be back with more questions in the future!

pm1977x

Good luck, you can't put a price on peace of mind.

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Getting my alarm fitted Monday, with a year monitoring. Costing an arm and a leg, it'll actually be the most expensive thing in my house! but I genuinely haven't felt comfortable leaving the house since the break in, and stressed walking in the house every time I get home, and that's not right.

I know houses with alarms get broken in to still but the peace of mind, of at the very worst knowing before I walk in, is worth every penny.


Thanks all here for the advice, dare say I might be back with more questions in the future!

Your chances of being broken into after the installation of your new alarm system will drop dramatically compared to not having one.
By having a system what you are doing is presenting any threat with a huge deterrent, they do not like them and the vast majority will keep going in whatever direction.

Well done and please if you have any queries, you know where we are.

Tom Mann Centuria

Have an alarm, just no monitoring. For whatever reason the installer wasn't given the GSM addon to install.

Supposed to be fitting that tomorrow now.

Noticed on the external box there's no led lights on it unless it's going off. Thought they flashed all the time as deterrent.

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Have an alarm, just no monitoring. For whatever reason the installer wasn't given the GSM addon to install.

Supposed to be fitting that tomorrow now.

Noticed on the external box there's no led lights on it unless it's going off. Thought they flashed all the time as deterrent.

Well it seems either your installer forgot to order the GSM or else the supplier never packaged it.

As for the external bell box, is sounds like a wireless one, they can be set for constant LED blinking but that will eat batteries.
You are correct in that you would have noticed ones with blinking LEDS but these in all probability are the wired type unit.

Is it possible I wonder for your installer to get a cable to the external bell box and to give it power ?
The wireless box has an input on it that will take an external power source which will make the LEDS blink.

Tom Mann Centuria

kub wrote: »

Well it seems either your installer forgot to order the GSM or else the supplier never packaged it.

As for the external bell box, is sounds like a wireless one, they can be set for constant LED blinking but that will eat batteries.
You are correct in that you would have noticed ones with blinking LEDS but these in all probability are the wired type unit.

Is it possible I wonder for your installer to get a cable to the external bell box and to give it power ?
The wireless box has an input on it that will take an external power source which will make the LEDS blink.

Im not sure getting power to it would be particularly easy.

Would replacing the batteries be an installer job?

If I could do it, I'd rather have the led on, it's a white alarm box on white wall at the side of the house and not particularly noticeable otherwise. No sticker on the alarm box or any thing.

I am probably over thinking it all!

Tom Mann Centuria

Well, alarm is in. Didn't worry about the led light's in alarm box in the end. Maybe going forward I might look into it.

Have ended up with 14 window/shock sensors (original quote, from more than one fitter mis counted or was going to use them differently?) and 2 PIR as well. Monitoring via the HKC app is good. Sends a notification very promptly after activation.

They have it set up so I can have perimeter secured while we're in, and full alarm with PIR when we're out.

For the original quote price too, so I think I've ended up with a better system than I thought I would.

kub

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Well, alarm is in. Didn't worry about the led light's in alarm box in the end. Maybe going forward I might look into it.

Have ended up with 14 window/shock sensors (original quote, from more than one fitter mis counted or was going to use them differently?) and 2 PIR as well. Monitoring via the HKC app is good. Sends a notification very promptly after activation.

They have it set up so I can have perimeter secured while we're in, and full alarm with PIR when we're out.

For the original quote price too, so I think I've ended up with a better system than I thought I would.

I am delighted you are sorted out and the type of system you have now, ie with perimeter protection and back up PIR's is the best.
It is great as well that with the system part set at night that you will be able to move around your home without feeling in anyway restricted by the very security system that is protecting your home.

Can I ask please, how come the external bell box is blank?
Ones with names on them certainly have more credibility.

Tom Mann Centuria

kub wrote: »

I am delighted you are sorted out and the type of system you have now, ie with perimeter protection and back up PIR's is the best.
It is great as well that with the system part set at night that you will be able to move around your home without feeling in anyway restricted by the very security system that is protecting your home.

Can I ask please, how come the external bell box is blank?
Ones with names on them certainly have more credibility.

Yeah, don't know. The work was done by lads from Cavan, for the company from Kilkenny. I'm going to get on to the company to get a sticker. Just looks like too dummy box ish otherwise.

Tom Mann Centuria

Got a nice black plastic cover, with provider's name on, fitted on my external alarm box now, which is great, much happier with that, looks the part and not like a dummy box. CCTV will be next, but that'll have to wait, a long time, until I pay off the alarm :pac:

Tom Mann Centuria

Have the alarm more or less paid off, so CCTV questions if people don't mind.

I was looking at this kit:

https://www.cctvireland.ie/4-camera-full-hd-cctv-kit-from-hikvision-the-world-leaders-in-cctv.html

Would this do a reasonable job for the money?

Would installation be a case of just running the cable (20 metres that's included) through the soffit to the cameras. I live in a bungalow so it'd be fairly straightforward, and I think there would be enough cable included, I think. But maybe there's loads more to it that I'm unaware of.

Is 1 tb hard drive just too small?


So, basically, kit any good, and could a moderate (at best) DIYer install it? Thanks.

Tom Mann Centuria

Also, if anyone gets a chance to read this, could a hikvision wired CCTV if I went down that route interact somehow or another with my HKC alarm system? (Obviously this would be a job for an alarm engineer)