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Biochar and natural farming

1246711

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    blue5000 wrote: »
    But it's only 15-20 % efficient on a DM basis.




    Indeed, it is low efficiency, however if you are using your own woody waste as feedstock why would you care unduly? you'd be making in the region of 200kg of biochar of the correct quality for adding to animal feed each burn. Its hard to see biochar becoming available commercially at less than €1/kg, currently available from some producers for €1.5/kg.
    Getting rid of a pile of woody waste on farm and producing 200-400 euro worth of biochar in a days work seems like a good deal to me.


    As an addendum traditional charcoal production has about a 14% yield on a dry matter basis.
    My own Exeter charcoal retort about 20-25% efficient.



    tim


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    Interesting that biochar is a by product of Stockholm tar/ pine tar production.


    https://maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    It seems these guys have got their Biochar EU approved as an animal feedstuff.

    €270 + vat for a cubic metre.

    https://www.carbofex.fi/biochar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Interesting that biochar is a by product of Stockholm tar/ pine tar production.


    https://maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm

    This little nugget is doing the rounds in the last few days.

    Vikings conquer the world thanks to Stockholm tar. So to speak.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/04/viking-longboat-industrial-tar-pits-dominance-seas


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    Conference Day....let's see if these Organic Boys can teach us a thing or 2 about soils....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    alps wrote: »
    Conference Day....let's see if these Organic Boys can teach us a thing or 2 about soils....

    Keep us poor people who had tractor break downs last week and have only got their tractor back and are installing feed barriers today and bringing heifers in for the winter informed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Keep us poor people who had tractor break downs last week and have only got their tractor back and are installing feed barriers today and bringing heifers in for the winter informed.

    Jaysus if you don't want to go just say it , we don't need all the excuses haha


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Bullocks wrote: »
    Jaysus if you don't want to go just say it , we don't need all the excuses haha

    I had good ones though. :)

    I'd be there in a shot though really. Hopefully it's filmed for later release.
    That dinner menu looks fairly posh too. :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    I had good ones though. :)

    I'd be there in a shot though really. Hopefully it's filmed for later release.
    That dinner menu looks fairly posh too. :(

    Food was fab....

    Conference is absolutely brilliant. The standard of presentation is amazing..

    Will give run down some other time as a few problems with beer build up at the moment and need to get the backlog cleared


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Well Alps, if you have mixed the grape and the barley you'll regret it. I presume both are organic, that might help with no hangover.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    Water John wrote: »
    Well Alps, if you have mixed the grape and the barley you'll regret it. I presume both are organic, that might help with no hangover.

    Well met another boardsie and decided to change it up again.....like a multi species sward


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    Today's conference has just ended��


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Well boardsie's who were at the conference.

    Have ye now a broader outlook on what ye should be doing?

    Plus Please, please, pleeease tell us how it went and any things ye learned or what ye made of it.
    Please.

    (Taken from Twitter).
    Dave Beecher (@davebeechersoil) Tweeted:
    Thanks @Natorgskill for a fantastic two days, creating a new direction and model for Irish Agriculture #biologicalfarming https://t.co/7pslEC8yD9 https://twitter.com/davebeechersoil/status/1062383528971776000?s=17


    Did I say Please??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    It seems New Zealand farmers are more "greener" than they're given credit for.
    The only caveat is that they're not native beetle species.
    But still... broadly positive I'd say???

    Dung beetle release program as part of a Fonterra Open Gates 2018 program.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1811/S00176/dung-beetles-to-be-rolled-out-region-wide.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Watch the film.

    https://livingsoilfilm.com/

    Edit: Anyone any experience of Austrian (winter) peas in this country?
    Grazing, growing over winter, hay/silage, drilling into grass, etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    You know how us puny humans like to put figures to the unfigureable?

    Well a group of 'experts' got together and published a book quantifying figures from how that technology would be taken up and sheer mass of how it could reduce carbon emissions in the atmosphere.
    The result was a book called ;

    Drawdown.
    The most comprehensive plan ever proposed to reverse Global Warming.
    Edited by Paul Harken.

    https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank

    They made a list of solutions to reduce carbon dioxide or reduce emissions.
    Then ranked them according to co2 reduction with a cost side bar.

    Now it's beyond me why Silvopasture, Regenerative agriculture, Managed grazing and Conservation agriculture are not all lumped together. But then I'm a simple farmer.

    Link is above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    Gonna throw some fashion of a report on the Biological Farming Conference during the week. It's going to come in bets and starts, as I get a chance, so apologies in advance.

    This was my first introduction to Biological Farming or indeed Organic production, and coming from the higher side of intensive dairying would have thought that my approach would have been shunned somewhat by the attendees. Nothing could have been further from the truth.

    This was a real mix audience. A massive cross section of production systems, age group more late 30's to 50's (more mid range than our standard) surprised with the weighting of dairy farmers, but for some reason i would have thought more women would have been present.

    The presentations were purely Biological, with very little emphasis on organic per say ...there was no condemnation or destain whatsoever towards conventional or high input, either from the presentations or the questions and made for a really comfortable, engaging few days for everyone.

    The quality of presentations was amazing, and the technical detail that the speakers could switch on when questioned, was from a scientific or chemical background, quiet incredible.

    So too was the conversation after dinner on Monday night. What a mix of farmers, from so many different systems ,organic dairy farmers growing 11 tonnes, to beef lads pulling on inputs and costs, to tillage lads renewing organic matter with rotations and cover crops.

    Too much to take in in 2 days, but there was a huge amount here for everyone, and with contacts made, will utilise in what way we can to improve our lot in our system.

    More later

    Ps....no mention of biochar however


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Wexford students win big testing EM (Effective Micro-organisms) with urea on grass.

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/wexford-students-take-scifest-award-for-agriculture-project/


    Interesting website and company that sells and promotes EM.

    https://www.multikraft.com/en/products-applications/agriculture-farming/[url][/url]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    You'd have to wonder why with all this new research showing the benefits of bacteria and good bacteria on soil and plants and no doubt ourselves, why anyone would spray an antibiotic (roundup) on plants and soil?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    You'd have to wonder why with all this new research showing the benefits of bacteria and good bacteria on soil and plants and no doubt ourselves, why anyone would spray an antibiotic (roundup) on plants and soil?
    How is roundup an antibiotic?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    How is roundup an antibiotic?

    It inhibits an enzymatic pathway in many bacteria and parasites in the soil and as bacteria need to multiply or die every four days. Antibiotic.
    Monsanto registered it as an antibiotic in the early days.

    It'll only leave/favour bacteria that are the strongest and most resistant to antibiotics in the soil.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2018/10/herbicides-like-roundup-are-driving-antibiotic-resistance-nz-study.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    It inhibits an enzymatic pathway in many bacteria and parasites in the soil and as bacteria need to multiply or die every four days. Antibiotic.
    Monsanto registered it as an antibiotic in the early days.

    It'll only leave/favour bacteria that are the strongest and most resistant to antibiotics in the soil.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2018/10/herbicides-like-roundup-are-driving-antibiotic-resistance-nz-study.html
    Sounds like the tinfoil hat brigade. Wormer's, actual antibiotics, species composition and fertilizer are having much bigger influences on soil microbes/fauna than glyphosate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    My composter / mineral pump at work. No labour or energy costs involved.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    It inhibits an enzymatic pathway in many bacteria and parasites in the soil and as bacteria need to multiply or die every four days. Antibiotic.
    Monsanto registered it as an antibiotic in the early days.

    It'll only leave/favour bacteria that are the strongest and most resistant to antibiotics in the soil.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2018/10/herbicides-like-roundup-are-driving-antibiotic-resistance-nz-study.html

    how roundup works is it attacks the cell wall and breaks it down so it might hit gram positive bacteria


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    My composter / mineral pump at work. No labour or energy costs involved.

    How do you get it so even?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Sounds like the tinfoil hat brigade. Wormer's, actual antibiotics, species composition and fertilizer are having much bigger influences on soil microbes/fauna than glyphosate

    I couldn't tell you which are better or worse. Not would I claim to have the last word on it.
    But....
    Link here and in here to the report.
    https://phys.org/news/2018-10-links-common-herbicides-antibiotic-resistance.html

    It's a continuing merry go round from hell for some farmers and ultimately the end users.

    Inputs 2 Farmers 0.

    It would be one hell of an interesting report though if someone did a study into closed herd farmers who are getting big problems with wormer resistance and see if they would be the same farmers who can't manage without glyphosate. Spraying it on silage before harvest and min till reseeds etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    alps wrote: »
    How do you get it so even?

    The randomness of nature.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Minister Bruton announcing plans to reduce CO2 tomorrow. Maybe its a unfair stat but 13t CO2/person Ireland, 8t CO2/person UK.
    Hope it has some positive ideas not just tax.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Water John wrote: »
    Minister Bruton announcing plans to reduce CO2 tomorrow. Maybe its a unfair stat but 13t CO2/person Ireland, 8t CO2/person UK.
    Hope it has some positive ideas not just tax.

    Over in the motors forum they're a bit worked up over potential plans of mixing biodiesel with diesel to the rate of 10%.
    Seemingly a lot of diesel cars could be kaput if so.

    Over in the children and toddlers forum they're delighted with potential plans to increase our birthrate to bring us in line with the UK.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Over in the motors forum they're a bit worked up over potential plans of mixing biodiesel with diesel to the rate of 10%.
    Seemingly a lot of diesel cars could be kaput if so.

    Over in the children and toddlers forum they're delighted with potential plans to increase our birthrate to bring us in line with the UK.

    Christ - when will this stupidity end!!?? They might as well mix the diesel with Orangutan blood!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    How many litres of diesel are burned to make one litre of biodiesel?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Good article by Thomas Hubert in last week's IFJ on methane. Shows this area needs further research and a wider understanding of its role and mitigation. Belching cows may be shouldering too much of the fair burden, need more facts. This doesn't mean we don't move to minimise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Water John wrote: »
    Good article by Thomas Hubert in last week's IFJ on methane. Shows this area needs further research and a wider understanding of its role and mitigation. Belching cows may be shouldering too much of the fair burden, need more facts. This doesn't mean we don't move to minimise.
    Unfortunately Water John. The Irish eejits in government and from that people's assembly have influenced policy thinking and media reporting in this country in that farming is 'the big bad wolf' in this whole carbon debacle.
    It lets themselves off the hook of course to continue their motorway driving, latte drinking, two foreign holidays a year lifestyle.
    There's no other industry in Ireland that captures carbon but sure the mushrooms don't want or need to know that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Unfortunately Water John. The Irish eejits in government and from that people's assembly have influenced policy thinking and media reporting in this country in that farming is 'the big bad wolf' in this whole carbon debacle.
    It lets themselves off the hook of course to continue their motorway driving, latte drinking, two foreign holidays a year lifestyle.
    There's no other industry in Ireland that captures carbon but sure the mushrooms don't want or need to know that.

    We've wasted alot of time and money on this - thats assuming you think climate change is all about us and not quiet natural. In any case simple things like bog restoration, passive homes etc. make alot more sense economically/environmentally than attacking livestock farming or making our energy bills some of the highest in the EU!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭keryl


    Made some last year. It's supposed to go a long way per acre. If your turning trimmed hedges into biochar it's going back into the land.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    keryl wrote: »
    Made some last year. It's supposed to go a long way per acre. If your turning trimmed hedges into biochar it's going back into the land.

    Did you mix it with manure first before applying?
    Otherwise it'll work as a sponge and soak up your nitrogen and phosphorus in the soil away from your plants and you'll be cursing the b word. So I'm told...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭keryl


    No only in small beds but yes it needs to be charged before applying. Really if your going to burn branches etc why not burn it and make it upgradable if you have the time and resources.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Documentary on TG4 now about soil health.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    ....

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    A Designers of Paradise podcast interview with Kathleen Draper, the U.S. director at Ithaka institute for carbon intelligence on the many uses of and developments in the world today of Biochar.

    https://rasa.ag/kathleen-draper-biocharmed/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Here is another researcher doing great work in looking at pollinators and alternatives to pesticides whilst increasing yield and profit.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/23/scientist-unveils-blueprint-to-save-bees-and-enrich-farmers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Just spotted this in the Journal -

    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/soil-will-it-run-out-419612

    Edit - a small bit I pulled from it -

    Soil degradation

    Brennan explained how soil is being degraded faster than it is being replaced. Brennan also stressed how soil is not renewable source, at least not in a human lifetime.

    In the US, soil is degrading 10 times faster than it can be replaced while in China degradation is running 40% ahead of replenishment. Around 25bn tonnes of top soil is being lost every year and cannot be replaced easily.


    Globally, 33% of soil is estimated to be degraded to some degree, with only around 60 years' worth of topsoil left according to a recent UN FAR report.

    Fiona explained that by international standards, Irish soils are performing relatively well, but that we shouldn’t become complacent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Suckler wrote: »
    ......
    Fiona explained that by international standards, Irish soils are performing relatively well, but that we shouldn’t become complacent.

    Due to all the grazing land, no doubt. Just don't tell that to the vegan/global warming brigade.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    Water John wrote: »
    Minister Bruton announcing plans to reduce CO2 tomorrow. Maybe its a unfair stat but 13t CO2/person Ireland, 8t CO2/person UK.
    Hope it has some positive ideas not just tax.




    When it comes to reducing carbon footprint, two cherries i suggest are,



    1. "storing more carbon in our soils "


    biochar, (preferentially produced using an energy recovery system to replace a portion of fossil fuel use)


    Forest management practice (continuous cover management stores a significantly larger carbon fraction in biomass and soil over time, clearfell management can lead to soil erosion and large releases of carbon from biomass and soil at clearfell)


    Grazing land mangement (......I have limited knowledge here and will allow others to contrbute if they wish........)


    etc


    2. "capturing more sunlight and increasing biomass volume"


    Biomass stores carbon, is made from carbon, etc... a field of grass can capture and use only a fraction of the sunlight that a forest can. The height of the canopy allows light to be harvested at different intensities all the way to the forest floor, when it comes to collecting sunlight for photosynthesis forest are super efficient.

    a field of grass is habitat for a wide variety of organisms in and on the soil, however a forest can support a much greater variety and volume of living organisms.


    just my opinions of course


    tim


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    This Twitter post has gotten a fair few interesting replies.

    Kieran Sullivan (@kieran_sullivan) Tweeted:
    If someone was so inclined to concentrate on improving the soil of their farm, where might that someone start? Is there anything resembling a set of guidelines or a 5-year “roadmap” available? https://twitter.com/kieran_sullivan/status/1065339010300686336?s=17


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Suckler wrote: »
    Just spotted this in the Journal -

    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/soil-will-it-run-out-419612

    Edit - a small bit I pulled from it -

    Soil degradation

    Brennan explained how soil is being degraded faster than it is being replaced. Brennan also stressed how soil is not renewable source, at least not in a human lifetime.

    In the US, soil is degrading 10 times faster than it can be replaced while in China degradation is running 40% ahead of replenishment. Around 25bn tonnes of top soil is being lost every year and cannot be replaced easily.


    Globally, 33% of soil is estimated to be degraded to some degree, with only around 60 years' worth of topsoil left according to a recent UN FAR report.

    Fiona explained that by international standards, Irish soils are performing relatively well, but that we shouldn’t become complacent.

    Its one the planets many natural resources like marine fisheries etc. that is taken totally for granted by too many with increasingly disastrous results:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Eamonn8448


    When it comes to reducing carbon footprint, two cherries i suggest are,



    1. "storing more carbon in our soils "


    biochar, (preferentially produced using an energy recovery system to replace a portion of fossil fuel use)


    Forest management practice (continuous cover management stores a significantly larger carbon fraction in biomass and soil over time, clearfell management can lead to soil erosion and large releases of carbon from biomass and soil at clearfell)


    Grazing land mangement (......I have limited knowledge here and will allow others to contrbute if they wish........)


    etc


    2. "capturing more sunlight and increasing biomass volume"


    Biomass stores carbon, is made from carbon, etc... a field of grass can capture and use only a fraction of the sunlight that a forest can. The height of the canopy allows light to be harvested at different intensities all the way to the forest floor, when it comes to collecting sunlight for photosynthesis forest are super efficient.

    a field of grass is habitat for a wide variety of organisms in and on the soil, however a forest can support a much greater variety and volume of living organisms.


    just my opinions of course


    tim

    why not store it above our soils too Tim, look up hemp concrete and its ability and benefits to lock down carbon.
    i got no agenda here i dont burn charcoal or biochar , to me biochar is just carbon and ok i have a chemical background its always going to be element number 6 to me , next time i burn my toast ill post a pic of biochar/carbon lol:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    If you look at a typical Irish landscape with all its hedge rows and cattle grazing in the fields, could we really be doing any more to trap carbon, apart from maybe planting the whole lot.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Say my name




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