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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭tgdaly


    I couldn't find any information on journey times. I note that the new S2 route connects Heuston Station to a stop near Baggot Street (Waterloo Road). Currently I get the 26 bus from Parkgate Street to Merrion Square. Just wondering would the new S2 be any quicker?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭TheChrisD


    God no. An orbital won't be quicker in this instance since you're far closer to a direct route. 26 will likely remain faster for now; things may change when that's replaced with the 80.



  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    I noticed a section of Drumcondra road, along the big trees between lower and upper Drumcondra, is now 24hrs bus lane.

    Not sure if the entire route from the airport has been made 24hrs. In the section nearest town, cars park in the bus lane after 7pm when it's still extremely busy, which I always thought was madness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭rx8


    It's 24 hrs. Mon-Sun, from the Whitehall flyover all the way to Drumcondra station. The new signs went up last weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    That's great, and well overdue, but also a bummer for me personally!! I always use the bus lane after hours and it helps avoid the constant horrific traffic on that route!

    The 24hr operation is important, as I believe people will be less likely to abuse it. If it's open some of the time, it's easy to abuse that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    It will be abused regardless unless there is proper enforcement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    It will be abused, but I'm sure it will be reduced significantly with a 24hr bus lane. The variance of bus lane operating times across the city reduces how serious people take them (maybe that's just me?).

    7-10am, open again 10-12, some only operate 4-7pm, others are Mon-Fri or Mon-Sat. All lanes should be 24/7 without question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Regarding phase 5b: they really should extend the 74 further East or north instead of contributing to the blight that is the wall of busses idling on Eden Quay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    At a bus every 30 mins that won’t be “idling” it’s not really an issue. Terminating buses will be parked up with the engine switched off. The 74 is the only route that will terminate on Eden Quay (either side of the road).

    All other buses on Eden Quay (D & G Spines, 58, 60, 71 & 72) will be passing through and not terminating (unless there’s no driver to take over). If they are changing driver they have to switch the engine off in any case.

    The longer you make a route, the more drivers and buses you need to deliver the service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Pale Red


    Will there be changes to current routes to use the bus lanes included in this upgrade? E.g. will 39A use it instead of junction 3.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    If someone currently gets the 76a from Ballyfermot to Blanchardstown SC, what will the situation be when these upcoming changes are implemented?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    S4 to LV then W4


    Not ideal but given the 76a is something like six times a day I’d still call it an improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Does anyone know if Dorest St. is 24 hours too? I haven’t been that way, but saw the signs at Whitehall.

    It’s a great move, but it will slow me down for when I drive to Drumcondra area. However the bus Lane being 24 hours will help compliance.

    They have a spot that they stand in going outbound at Plunkett College.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    Not ideal mostly because of the horrific interchange situation at LV. A lot of older people using the 76a to get to Blanch from Ballyfermot. They'll struggle with this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Citrus_8




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There are always going to be winners and losers with a network change.

    I’d have to say that given the 76a only operates 7 times a day at peak hour Monday to Friday you may be overstating the problem by saying “a lot”. Some yes, but let’s not go overboard here.

    I do have some sympathy for people who are being discommoded by changes, but let’s be honest here, the W4 is a massive improvement in service provision. It’s an all day service operating seven days a week. There are significantly more frequent services being delivered on the S4 through Ballyfermot than the 76 too.

    There has to be a balance in how you provide the service, and that will mean some people having to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    I welcome the increased frequency and personally have no problem with having to switch buses to achieve that. The W4 is a great new addition.

    But the situation at Liffey Valley is unacceptable. I interchange between buses on the N4 and buses at the new hub in the centre at least twice a day. The more I use it, the more angry I become at how this has been allowed to happen, and how NTA or whoever gets away with misrepresenting this interchange as straightforward on all their Bus Connects publications.

    If the new bridge couldn't be put in place in the foreseeable time frame, then the new hub should have been constructed to link up with the existing one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭lateconnection


    Fully agree, they could extend it down to the G1/G2 terminus in Spencer Dock.

    To be honest I am surprised that the 74 has been proposed as a route at all. It uses an incredibly elongated and indirect route to get into town from Rathfarnham. I can't see it being heavily-used.

    Perhaps closer to Crumlin it will be well-used, as it goes straight into town via Cork Street from there, which is the most direct route into town from that neck of the woods. But I can't see many going the whole way into town on the 74 from Rathfarnham, Terenure, Ballinteer or Whitechurch. I thought this was the type of excessively indirect and infrequent route typical of the current system that Busconnects was trying to move away from.

    I think a better local solution would have been to make the 161 (Dundrum-Rockbrook via Whitechurch) a more frequent local service, perhaps every 20 minutes, and with a slight route deviation to use the proposed 74 route through Ballinteer. Yeah Whitechurch would lose a direct bus to the city, but would gain a far more frequent connection to Dundrum, where people can hop onto the Luas and get into town quickly and reliably, and of course Dundrum Town Centre too. This is one of the main trip generators locally obviously, there aren't a whole load of trips generated between Crumlin, Cork Street and Whitechurch. Which is why I'm a bit puzzled as to why they are going ahead with the 74. But time will tell if it's a success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I think you’re being too narrow in your focus. The 74 is not solely about Whitechurch. It’s about serving the communities all along the bus route, and it is effectively replacing the western half of the 17 between Rathfarnham and Dolphin’s Barn.

    If you’re trying to say that no one uses the 17 for short trips between various stops from Rathfarnham and Dolphin’s Barn, then I’d suggest you go out and look again, because plenty of people do and they would have no bus service if this route wasn’t provided.

    For Whitechurch residents going to the city centre this bus will provide a direct link to the LUAS and a much faster trip to the city with no fare penalty, while still linking to the A Spine, 85 & S6 at Rathfarnham.

    It’s not a bus route that people will use end to end, but one that people will use for shorter journeys all along the route, so that you’ll see, like on the 17, a fairly constant turnover of passengers. You need those kind of routes too.

    A bus network needs a combination of local community bus routes, direct spine routes and direct orbital routes. There’s no one size fits all.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    You are being far too short term in your outlook here. This is a long term project to deliver improved bus services.

    Expecting everything to be in place all at once given the planning constraints at the moment isn’t realistic, nor is moving the bus station.

    The new bus station is a huge improvement over the old bus terminus, and the “interchange” element of the bus station will be used far more with passengers switching between the S4 and W2.

    I don’t think that there was ever any indication that the new bridge would be in place before the CBC infrastructure works happened, so I don’t know where you’re getting that idea from.

    As I say, this is a long term investment project and that means that for some of the time there will be less than optimal situations. But it’s a much shorter walk from the new bus station to the C Spine than that from the old terminus.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I see there's a commencement notice in at the Broadstone depot for the "construction of front E-House for new electric vehicle charging infrastructure". Does this link directly with the upcoming Bus Connects routes in any way? I know there were talks about a lack of charging infrastructure to get some up and running so hopefully this paves the way for future routes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This is more to do with getting the electric buses into service rather than specific BusConnects routes. There are more than enough older buses in storage to facilitate new routes other than the “O” route (which needs single decks due to the low bridge at Macken Street) - lack of drivers is the real problem.

    According to the latest edition of Buses Magazine, Summerhill should have their charging points in by the end of November and Phibsboro will be done by the end of the year. The latter will facilitate the introduction of the “O” route next year.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I don’t think that there was ever any indication that the new bridge would be in place before the CBC infrastructure works happened, so I don’t know where you’re getting that idea from.

    Honestly, I can understand it. Back when BusConnects was announced, there was much confusion over what infrastructure projects would be part of the Network Changes, and which would be part of the Core Corridors projects, and unless you follow it closely on here, or read the planning applications, then there's no easy way to tell which should belong in which.

    There's no real way of explaining to people that the interchange station belongs in the network changes, while the bridge to make that interchange station truly useful belongs in the CC projects, at least not easily anyway. Most people posting more than once or twice in here would probably know, but the average person? No, I can totally understand them on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭dublinbusdude


    Noticed that the new TFI bus stops are popping up on Killininny Road yesterday evening in time for the S8 route!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Yeah noticed them around the DL area for the S8 and L25 too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    The booklets are being distributed at the moment as well, got mine in the letterbox this morning!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    They really need copies on board every bus serving south and west Dublin as well.

    This phase is by far the biggest shake up of city bus routes yet and it’s going to take a lot of explaining to people.

    The disjointed notifications are really disappointing - no mention of the extra trips on the 14, 44d and 161 on the TFI page replacing part of the 75 and 61, and both DB and GAI only giving info about their own routes on their websites rather than the big picture.

    This is such a big change and people should not have to worry about who operates the routes to get up to date information.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    I remember there being booklets on buses prior to the C Spine launch, was on a bus out to Lucan about a week before it launched.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Yes but that was on a route that was changing.

    These changes could potentially offer alternatives to people using other routes that aren’t changing - hence they need to maximise the publicity across the network.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Just drove to the merry ploughboy pub in Edmond town and noticed there was a bus stop near the pub and I turns out the 161 stops there.

    How do I find out how many busses a day and what time they arrive at certain bus stops, on the TFI app?

    Also when I go onto a certain stop it shows me all the busses stopping at that stop but only up to 20:18, how do I see the full service of that bus stop?

    Another question- some busses have (scheduled) next to it- what’s that mean?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    All you need to know is here:

    https://bustimes.org/services/161-rockbrook-dundrum-2

    Click on map for the route and on “show all stops” to see the full stop by stop timetable.

    It’s a very limited service that runs Monday to Friday only.

    (scheduled) on the app means it’s not tracking yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    thanks LX but why the hell is this not on the TFI app? (sorry not having a go at you- it just seems silly that's all!)

    I have the TFI app on my phone but i didnt know of the bustimes.org and i doubt many do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭p_haugh




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Sometimes you need to look around and use different resources for different things. That particular website provides a better overview than most for full timetables.

    For some reason the NTA don’t want to show full route timetables on the app, just departures around a certain time. It is daft.

    There is a pdf timetable for the route on the GoAhead website but it shows only certain stops. You asked for the full timetable and Bustimes is the best site for that information.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    fair play LX thats the website ill save on the phone web browser going forward.

    I may as well delete that TFI app at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭rx8


    Just to answer @bikeman1 , the inbound bus lane in Dorset St. is still 7-10 and 12-7pm after the train station.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    New stop (and timetables!) in place on Dundrum Main Street




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭Daith


    It's still great to see some progress on this. Even if it's all (understandably in most cases) very slow going



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭john boye


    Saw the same in Crumlin Village this morning. Bus stop head says 27 stops there, I'd say a lot of people will be confused by that. I know it's technically true but it's two journies at all hours of the morning.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ITV2


    They put a stop on the N81 inbound at Killinardan for the S8 only odd the 65 doesn't serve it, but it does on the opposite side of the road?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    It would probably make more sense if those departures were given 27d as their number. Like the way 33 departures via Portrane are numbered 33e or 63 via Foxrock Village is 63a.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    I think there used to be stop there a few years ago that was removed, at the end of the black path.

    anyways, saw this today

    recurring theme with bus connects in the area, not a single leaflet drop



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Who on earth puts dark text on a dark green background? The sign is just barely readable here.

    Where is the location of that bus stop in your photo?

    I think it says there that if you get a bus to Citywest; you get the W62 at stop 2626 from Sunday week; the 26th of November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    Note how the stop flag doesn't have the Irish stop name in cursive. Lo' and behold, are the NTA following the Official Languages Act better than the TII?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Merricat


    Long time lurker, first time poster- I've learned a lot from this thread!

    There is currently absolute carnage in online Knocklyon/Firhouse groups about the removal of the 75/175 bus routes. Misinformation/misinterpretation is rife. All I can say is that I feel deeply sorry for local councillors, who are getting endless grief but have nothing to do with the changes. One commenter went on a rant about how they had all been tagged in the thread and were too lazy to answer.... four hours after some bright spark had done so. The local FF TD came out and made a statement. I can't see this being stopped but I don't think any of these people have ever heard of BusConnects... zero leafleting in the area that I can see.

    The biggest protest seems to be about the disruption to DLIADT students, which doesn't seem to be an issue to me if the connections on the N11 work out. The reduced service to Dundrum in the area is definitely poorly thought out though. Any casual onlooker could tell you the passenger traffic to and from Dundrum is massive, just get the 175 any time of day.

    Otherwise I don't think I'm too badly affected personally, both the S6 and S8 are within easy reach for me. I guess we'll see how they pan out though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The loss of the Dundrum connection was something that stuck out like a sore thumb. But the NTA know best! They have placed far too much emphasis on end-to-end users despite buses filling up all day at Dundrum Town Centre on both routes. It’s nuts.

    What they should have done was let the S8 take the L25 route and the L25 take the S8 route to Dun Laoghaire.

    The best connection to Dundrum now will be S8 to Sandyford LUAS and LUAS from there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Thats a pain in the hole though. Bus to Sandyford and then Luas to Dundrum.

    Luas disrupted again today due to protests in town and stopping before it reaches the city centre. Terrible service and people very angry.

    Tallaght to Dundrum will be car journeys for most now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Kalimah


    The removal of the 175 will make things really inconvenient for my daughter heading to UCD from Knocklyon. She’ll have a 20 minute walk to get to the S6 from our house rather than the 50 feet as it is at the moment.

    I don’t know how she’ll get to Dundrum SC for her part time job either. I think the S6 will bring her to the old Dundrum SC and she’ll have to walk from there.

    No leaflet here either with the changes. They want people out of cars but this just won’t work. They’re trying to make buses work like an underground with connections here and there. It’s ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭757TFFIU


    This does seem to be an issue when installing new bus stops as part of Bus Connects. Stop 7875 was installed on Ninth Lock Road in Clondalkin when route 60 was being introduced. Despite routes 68, 76, 76a and L54 passing the stop, these were not included on the stop, and as such, these four routes just drive straight on by. This is despite all other bus stops on both sides of the road serving all routes.

    Equally, stops 7781 and 7782 were initially installed on Monastery Road in Clondalkin when route L54 started. Despite the 13, 68 and 69 passing these stops, they were not included on the stop, so they didn't stop there. After roughly two months, this was corrected and all routes now serve these stops.



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