BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Dardania wrote: »

Newstalk now: https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1025402497035202561?s=21

I suppose he is there to talk about the public consultations that began by the NTA in Charlestown Shopping Centre yesterday. He would have probably raised the issue of complaints coming in from all of the public representatives criticizing this plan to their own constituents.

Was there any important remarks made about the public reaction to the plan because I think I have missed the Newstalk interview.

TheChrisD wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Newstalk now: https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1025402497035202561?s=21

Hopefully there will be a recording of it. And ideally not posted on the newstalk site that requires cookies to access because of a ****ty GDPR implementation

Link here - half way in: https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/81889/46705/3rd_August_2018_-_The_Hard_Shoulder_Part_1/

Interesting - he conceded the point that maybe more "personalised"guidance might have been better to do before going out for consultation (e.g. virtual route planner, or this table they're putting together comparing routes)

salmocab wrote: »

F3 effectively replaces the 9 so with a bit of a change on its city section. My parents will be delighted they’ve had the 55,155,55,19A,9and soon the F3 they’ll understand the change is just a number really.

The f3 does not follow any of the 9 in finglas.

The 7a and 7b are the only routes that resemble existing routes to the 83 ad the 9 !!


Are the 7a ad the 7b on a constant loop or do they follow the 7 spine I to the city centre ?

danielle_door wrote: »

The f3 does not follow any of the 9 in finglas.

The 7a and 7b are the only routes that resemble existing routes to the 83 ad the 9 !!


Are the 7a ad the 7b on a constant loop or do they follow the 7 spine I to the city centre ?

Ah fair enough I’ve never been beyond the City Centre coming from the south side on the 9, won’t make any difference to my parents though as there will still be a bus from behind their house to the c/c

KD345 wrote: »

It would seem the residents disagree, the bus through the village is used for Tesco, local shops etc. The inbound stop close to Sandymount Green is incredibly busy.

I don't see the need to re-route the new C1 bus - if by using the coast road meant it serving more homes I could understand, but it doesn't. It just makes everyone in Sandymount walk further.

Hopefully it'll be a small issue to resolve.

God bless the residents...and their merchants.

The Incredibly Busy inbound Bus-Stop is rarely,if ever clear of Vans,Vars and pther accoutrements,and usually ends up with the Busdriver having to compromise every rule of safety and commonsense in order to allow anybody on or off...it was particularly impressive when the 1,2 and 3 routes were operated by AD class single deck vehicles....;)

However,I would imagine that the Roadshow for the area will result in no change at all...particularly for those locals who utilise the Bus Stops as their own personal parking spots ...:)

Stephen15 wrote: »

There are already bus stops on the N4 which is 80km and bus stops on the 80km section of the N11 South of Foxrock Church so I don't see what's wrong with putting bus stops on the Chapelizod Bypass as long as there was footbridges or underpasses.

What's wrong Chapelizod Hill Road or Kylemore Hill?

The bus stops on the N4 are in sensible places. Where you're talking about sticking bus stops for the people of Chapelizod is madness.

Do you realise the sort of gradients that we're dealing with here at Kylemore Road?

There is literally no point to their addition, never mind the engineering that such construction would require.

Have you ever been to the underpass there at the junction with the Old Lucan Road?

Can anyone clarify if its the case that under the plan the network changes will come first and the infrastructure later? If so could this not turn quickly into a mess if there is no improvement in bus lanes to go with it? It seems to me that journeys could actually get longer without the infrastrucutre present, not on all routes but the situation at Blanch SC for instance would get worse if its used as a hub but buses get held up in traffic to get into it.

Talking to Dublin Bus, they said evasion is at about 1%. I don't know if that fully takes over-riding into account. When they did the massive crack down, evasion fell to about 0.5%

Thought: people using the existing routes 33, 65, 84, etc. will have to change bus and tag-on / pay a second time. Over-riders won't like that.

bk wrote: »

I don't know how they stop people tagging-off early and not getting off, I assume the drivers just keep an eye on it.

Well, one thing is that the read validator wouldn't work when the doors are closed / bus is moving.

Only allow tag off at rear validator to reduce the number of people using the front door.

Problem: The new ticketing system due within 2 years, but there will still be lots of buses with no rear door.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Yes, basically.

I understand the plan is to do work at Blanch in advance.

Overall, the issue is that progress needs to be made quickly. We can’t wait for everything to be finished before anything is changed.

Extra buses are being added at the moment to a network that doesn’t really ‘work’ and as a result we aren’t getting much value for them.

Thanks for clarifying. I realise that progress needs to be made quickly but it seems to be like a potential own goal to implement network changes when the infrastructure is not there to support it. For example the south west corridor- if Busconnects network changes implement the spine and spider system then people are going to have to change bus, fair enough. But without improvements in journey times brought about by the CPO of front gardens then surely journey times are in danger of increasing here rather than decreasing?

To me this seems like an own goal and one that could scupper the entire plan. We already have local politicians in full blown opposition to Busconnects and if journey times increase upon implementation of the new network then there is going to be a loud chorus of I told you so from these politicians. If that happens then there will be calls to scrap the entire scheme and go back to the current network.

Busconnects has already been a PR disaster but hopefully the public consultations will turn that around. But longer journeys for people without the infrastructure built is going to turn people against the idea altogether IMO. Not saying that is right, just that I can see it happening and egged on by rabble rousing politicians very quickly the public could turn against this altogether.

sharper wrote: »

Without infrastructure improvements travel times will definitely increase. Without the interchange facilities people's first impressions of changing bus is going to be negative.

Successful delivery of this project will involve doing a lot of things right.

Infrastructure improvement is the most crucial aspect of implementation, the key to Bus Connects' success. If this cannot be launched without delivering the promised reliability and ease of interchange then it would be better if it was deferred. The backlash will be much greater than that which occurred when the Luas cross city had its initial problems.

cgcsb wrote: »

The bulk of the infrastructure will not be ready by the time bus connects route changes happen. However there will be changes to road layout and many streets will be closed to cars

For example well have:
Pedestrianised college green
Car ban on George's st and bachelors walk
One way system in rathmines terenure and stoneybatter
Bus and access only on old cabra road and Prussia st
There'll also be some provisional upgrades completed on the suburban hubs at the shopping centres by then

Not perfect but much better than current set up

Are there any timelines in the plan when we could expect to see the above delivered and how do they compare vis a vis planned introduction of the network changes?

As you say not perfect but I would be more concerned about a public backlash of seeing their journey times increase while we are waiting on the infrastructure. We have already had a sh1t storm from people who think they are losing their bus service but thankfully they are having it explained to them that they are not. But if people were to see their bus journeys increase by 10-15 minutes because of having to change and there is no significant improvements to infrastructure to counter-act connection waiting times then this plan could possibly be doomed to failure. Like say if people on the south west corridor currently have an hours journey and that goes up to 1hr 15 mins then they will take little comfort in the NTA planning to CPO gardens which could get messy with legal challenges. If that happens then you are immediately going to have local politicians screaming to go back to the old network. And as we know in Ireland those who shout the loudest are those who get listened to.

I dont know what the thinking is here but surely launching such large scale changes in the network before infrastructure is built is putting the cart before the horse?

cgcsb wrote: »

The bulk of the infrastructure will not be ready by the time bus connects route changes happen. However there will be changes to road layout and many streets will be closed to cars

For example well have:
Pedestrianised college green
Car ban on George's st and bachelors walk
One way system in rathmines terenure and stoneybatter
Bus and access only on old cabra road and Prussia st
There'll also be some provisional upgrades completed on the suburban hubs at the shopping centres by then

Not perfect but much better than current set up

Is this all in the busconnects report?

Interactive map: http://interactive.map.busconnects.ie/

Other documents have been re-presented, with area-specific brochures. https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign/

Qrt wrote: »

Is this all in the busconnects report?

Not in report but that's how it's shaping up. The suburban hubs won't work as is, the liffey valley one would actually be physically impossible.

CG plaza will likely go ahead before the end of this year and that will automatically mean parliament st becoming 2 way bus only and a much larger volume of buses on the quays requiring a double bus lane.

I guess it's not mobile friendly as i cant use it at all with android. will have a look at it tomorrow

markpb wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but Safari on iPhone *really* doesn't like whatever is on that page! Repeated page load, page resets because of multiple errors and then it crashed Safari completely.

It's causing Opera on Windows to crash for me.

Wouldn't load for me on mobile but got it working without issues when you switch your browser to desktop mode.

Something has been on my mind about the NBRU & DOL recently. When this plan was first published over the last few weeks. Both of these guys have been so rampant about how this plan would make things worse for the bus service in Dublin because it benefits people much less than using the old network. I would like to know why should it be described as making the service worse for people living around all the GDA when in fact it should the complete opposite of what this plan is trying to describe.

For myself & my mother living around Newtownpark Avenue in Blackrock; having 2 direct bus routes to Dun Laoghaire is a huge bonus like us who are heavy users of PT. My own mother & I are not getting any younger either. My mum will be aged 55 in late 2019 once the proposed BusConnects routes get implemented in late 2019 or early 2020. I am not sure how the infrastructure will pan out seamlessly with this plan. If the routes get put out first; fair enough. That is not something that I will be disappointed with but the NTA here that implementation planning will happen within late 2018 & early 2019. We will have no concrete idea about how the plan will address the major roadworks in Dublin before the routes get the approval from the NTA to be changed. If the routes get changed first & the infrastructure; I will be happy with the prospect that CPO's will get done in a quicker rate of time rather than being slow & unrealistic. I will be aged 30 from early 2020; so for me getting a bus near between my supposed workplace & home will be really beneficial for me if I have to head out during the peak times of the day.

The NBRU really have to be careful with their words in a political sense that this plan will be an apparent hindrance to all PT users in Dublin. These guys need to realize now that the times in this country have radically changed for the better. People living in Dublin now don't want to be stick with a creaking transport system that promotes blatant stubbornness & sticking with past systems that will eventually fall apart after a long & sustained period of time. The NBRU's presence on twitter is not going to become game changing in any sense of the word because not everyone in this city would frequently care less about using social media on a day to day basis. The NBRU words on Twitter could become eventually ignored by these masses of people to the point that it just becomes an daily annoyance once the NTA's & Jarrett Walker's BusConnects plan gets implemented in full.

A system of the past should be left to the past & be replaced to make it a whole lot better. What we have now is something that is not like that at all. It's basically a system that is a shadow of it's former shelf. It should eventually be largely forgotten about from an operational sense because if we ever try to go back to that system in a few years time; it won't be doable under any stretch of the imagination. If people in Dublin heard in the future that going back to the old system would be it's later intention from the NTA. They will not want it anymore & and will stick with a more modern system to try & replace the original system implemented under BusConnects. They also have to remember that one system is not going to change because it is being influenced by the 10 minute DART service, the Luas CC, DU & the proposed Metrolink from Sandyford to Swords. If bus passengers in Dublin want to see & realize the full benefits of this plan; they should stick with it & put up with it.

They have to remember that other PT projects in Dublin years from now will have to cater for more demand while it's being fed to or from the bus network. Having other advanced PT systems in place with a rather obscure & unreliable bus service to match is not an attractive feature to use later on in life. People who carry on doing their business in Dublin in later years will eventually be fed up of it & will want it to change for the better. The NBRU will have realize this in their heads in that this place is not like the 1900's at all. It's now 2018. If people want change to improve their quality of life; they should be entitled to ask someone about it nicely without being told no like a bold child. Sticking with that rigid mentality is such a old fashioned restrictive form of nonsense & people would be right to get rid of it.