David's going Dairying.

davidk1394 · 26-07-2019 1:38pm

Panch18 wrote: »

How do you get on with the red clover? What kind of yields are you getting? and what kind of inputs do you give it?

This is its first proper year growing. Last year it was cut in October. When opening the bales they were black but the sheep and cattle loved it and thrived on them.
1st cut this year was April 18th got 4 bales to the acre. It got 3 bags to the acre of 27- 2.5- 5 then cut again the 10th of June. Yield was 7 bales/ acre. It got no fertilizer after that because of the red clover and then it was cut there again Wednesday. Got 6 bales/ acre

tractorporn · 28-07-2019 10:24am

davidk1394 wrote: »

This is its first proper year growing. Last year it was cut in October. When opening the bales they were black but the sheep and cattle loved it and thrived on them.
1st cut this year was April 18th got 4 bales to the acre. It got 3 bags to the acre of 27- 2.5- 5 then cut again the 10th of June. Yield was 7 bales/ acre. It got no fertilizer after that because of the red clover and then it was cut there again Wednesday. Got 6 bales/ acre

Can I ask why you are giving it Nitrogen? Any studies I've seen have shown that there is no benefit to feeding red clover with N that it makes the clover lazy? The two lads here growing it only give it 0-7-30 to replace the Ps and Ks the plant itself should in theory fix more than enough N for itself.

davidk1394 · 28-07-2019 10:52am

tractorporn wrote: »

Can I ask why you are giving it Nitrogen? Any studies I've seen have shown that there is no benefit to feeding red clover with N that it makes the clover lazy? The two lads here growing it only give it 0-7-30 to replace the Ps and Ks the plant itself should in theory fix more than enough N for itself.

The reason I went with nitrogen in spring was the soil temperatures were still too low for the clover to be fully effective. It didnt get any fert since, the soil is index 4 for both P&K and a pH of 6.3.

Keepgrowing · 28-07-2019 1:20pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

The reason I went with nitrogen in spring was the soil temperatures were still too low for the clover to be fully effective. It didnt get any fert since, the soil is index 4 for both P&K and a pH of 6.3.

How much grown to date and what tonnes do you expect in season?

davidk1394 · 28-07-2019 1:30pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

How much grown to date and what tonnes do you expect in season?

In 2019 so far the 12 ac have grown 13,600 kgs of fresh grown grass per acre. It might vary a little.
I expect to get another cut of about 4 bales to the acrea and then graze with the heifers if ground conditions are good

davidk1394 · 12-08-2019 12:04pm

Another little update people. I weighed all the calves last week and divided them up by weights.

The bigger bunch of calves are February and March born calves. Their average weight is 146kgs. Their still getting a small amount of meal each day (800 grams) and good grass.

The smaller bunch of calves are 106kgs and are mainly last bundle of calves bought. These are April born calves. Their getting 2.5kgs of meal each day and getting good grass.

So far I’ve had very full health issues and all the calves appear to be good and healthy. I’ve had a few small issues with ring worm, but I let it run it’s course and all calves effected are over it now.

Water John · 12-08-2019 12:10pm

Keep them thriving.

Mooooo · 12-08-2019 12:27pm

Are they crossbred?

davidk1394 · 17-08-2019 11:35am

Mooooo wrote: »

Are they crossbred?

60% Holstein 40% British friesan

patsy_mccabe · 17-08-2019 1:30pm

That clover looks great.

Reggie. · 17-08-2019 3:29pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

Another little update people. I weighed all the calves last week and divided them up by weights.

The bigger bunch of calves are February and March born calves. Their average weight is 146kgs. Their still getting a small amount of meal each day (800 grams) and good grass.

The smaller bunch of calves are 106kgs and are mainly last bundle of calves bought. These are April born calves. Their getting 2.5kgs of meal each day and getting good grass.

So far I’ve had very full health issues and all the calves appear to be good and healthy. I’ve had a few small issues with ring worm, but I let it run it’s course and all calves effected are over it now.

You wouldn't about bloat with all the clover?

Mooooo · 17-08-2019 3:59pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

60% Holstein 40% British friesan

The only reason I asked is target weights are 30% of mature weight by 6 months of age as a guide. You've done the correct thing tho in dividing out the small ones

Water John · 17-08-2019 9:57pm

If all their paddocks have similar amounts of clover, they should be ok. It's when they go from grass to clover, the problem really occurs.

squinn2912 · 17-08-2019 10:01pm

Water John wrote: »

If all their paddocks have similar amounts of clover, they should be ok. It's when they go from grass to clover, the problem really occurs.

Does it cause problems fir all stock? We’ve done reseeding and put a lot of clover into it but surrounding fields would be a long time out so very little in them

Water John · 17-08-2019 10:06pm

Wouldn't know enough about it. Problem is they gorge themselves on it when let in.

squinn2912 · 17-08-2019 10:16pm

Water John wrote: »

Wouldn't know enough about it. Problem is they gorge themselves on it when let in.

Ah right

Buford T. Justice XIX · 17-08-2019 10:29pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ah right

I was at a walk earlier this year where they fenced off a section of the front of the paddock for the first grazing and forced the cattle to eat a good share of grass as well as the tastier clover in that section before dropping the fence to the rest of the paddock.

It really reduced the risk of bloat but didn't eliminate it.

Reggie. · 17-08-2019 11:15pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I was at a walk earlier this year where they fenced off a section of the front of the paddock for the first grazing and forced the cattle to eat a good share of grass as well as the tastier clover in that section before dropping the fence to the rest of the paddock.

It really reduced the risk of bloat but didn't eliminate it.

Thsts going to be the issue going forward. Moorepark are pushing clover as a save the planet crop to reduce the artificial nitrogen requirements. I'm stitching in alot of it recently with dairy farmers. 2kg an acre is the max recommended. If reseeding and no clover anywhere else on the farm then no more than .5kg per acre to reduce risk of bloat

Mooooo · 17-08-2019 11:39pm

All reseeding from next year on will have to have clover in it I think. Not suitable at all for heavier or wet ground . Post emergence may sort it

Reggie. · 18-08-2019 8:27am

Mooooo wrote: »

All reseeding from next year on will have to have clover in it I think. Not suitable at all for heavier or wet ground . Post emergence may sort it

I dont put clover in any of my reseeds. I add it afterwards. No point putting in clover and wiping it out with a post emergence spray. Get the non clover option grass seed bag which will be cheaper and have more grass seed in it. Then add your clover at a later time

wrangler · 18-08-2019 9:03am

Reggie. wrote: »

I dont put clover in any of my reseeds. I add it afterwards. No point putting in clover and wiping it out with a post emergence spray. Get the non clover option grass seed bag which will be cheaper and have more grass seed in it. Then add your clover at a later time

And what do you charge for adding clover

yewtree · 18-08-2019 9:08am

Reggie. wrote: »

Thsts going to be the issue going forward. Moorepark are pushing clover as a save the planet crop to reduce the artificial nitrogen requirements. I'm stitching in alot of it recently with dairy farmers. 2kg an acre is the max recommended. If reseeding and no clover anywhere else on the farm then no more than .5kg per acre to reduce risk of bloat

I can see no logic in that, you either want clover or you dont want clover. In order to get the benefits of clover (nitrogen fixation and increased milk solids) ypu need an average of 30% across the year. It will be much higher this time of year. Clver has its disadvantages, so if you want the upside you have to manage the risks.

Mooooo · 18-08-2019 9:28am

Reggie. wrote: »

I dont put clover in any of my reseeds. I add it afterwards. No point putting in clover and wiping it out with a post emergence spray. Get the non clover option grass seed bag which will be cheaper and have more grass seed in it. Then add your clover at a later time

That's what I'm saying all grass mixes will have to have clover in them afaik from next year on. Have tried it here, wet ground 9 years out of ten is a disaster as it's colder longer clover doesn't grow and all you have is bare patches and more poaching and weeds.

trixi2011 · 18-08-2019 10:12am

Put cooking oil in the troughs here for bloat seems to work well in dry weather, meal also seems to help for some reason

Reggie. · 18-08-2019 1:17pm

wrangler wrote: »

And what do you charge for adding clover

Depends on the acreage really but that statement is the common sense approach rather than the contractor head on

Reggie. · 18-08-2019 1:21pm

Mooooo wrote: »

That's what I'm saying all grass mixes will have to have clover in them afaik from next year on. Have tried it here, wet ground 9 years out of ten is a disaster as it's colder longer clover doesn't grow and all you have is bare patches and more poaching and weeds.

I dont think so once you put it in the swarth. The mixes can still be got without clover and no word of discontinuing them as far as I know. It's better to add the clover on it's own so at the back end so it has the whole winter to get established. Takes clover roughly 6 to 8 months to get going and be competitive with the grass

Reggie. · 18-08-2019 1:28pm

yewtree wrote: »

I can see no logic in that, you either want clover or you dont want clover. In order to get the benefits of clover (nitrogen fixation and increased milk solids) ypu need an average of 30% across the year. It will be much higher this time of year. Clver has its disadvantages, so if you want the upside you have to manage the risks.

No idea but that's the word from moorepark and that's why I'm stitching it now as they are pushing it.

It was pushed on a reseeding event I was at too. Same stand as the dribble bars and trailing shoes

Water John · 18-08-2019 3:06pm

Humphries I think is the expert on that in Moorepark. Clover grows in the back end of the year. Building the wedge through the late autumn for early grazing won't suit it at all. Land needs to be grazed out. Possibly better calving later and milking until Christmas.
White clover replaces 3 bags CAN and red clover replaces 6 bags of CAN. Red clover mainly for silage ground, lasts 3/4 years.

Mooooo · 18-08-2019 3:13pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I dont think so once you put it in the swarth. The mixes can still be got without clover and no word of discontinuing them as far as I know. It's better to add the clover on it's own so at the back end so it has the whole winter to get established. Takes clover roughly 6 to 8 months to get going and be competitive with the grass

Googled there and I'm corrected it's derogation farmers have to do it but it could come in for every one else said.
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/nitrates-derogation-key-details-revealed-38343749.html

Buford T. Justice XIX · 18-08-2019 5:21pm

Water John wrote: »

Humphries I think is the expert on that in Moorepark. Clover grows in the back end of the year. Building the wedge through the late autumn for early grazing won't suit it at all. Land needs to be grazed out. Possibly better calving later and milking until Christmas.
White clover replaces 3 bags CAN and red clover replaces 6 bags of CAN. Red clover mainly for silage ground, lasts 3/4 years.

On the white clover, it only starts working at 6 degrees and it's at its optimum in late summer when the temperature is at it's best here.

It produces a bigger surplus during the summer and ideally this is used to supplement poorer growth in paddocks with lots of clover during spring and autumn.

Straight from James Humphreys mouth. He's not as involved in clover any more iirc.

Water John · 18-08-2019 7:55pm

Grass at 6 degrees, clover at 8?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 18-08-2019 10:04pm

Water John wrote: »

Grass at 6 degrees, clover at 8?

Yeah, that's it:)

davidk1394 · 07-03-2020 1:06pm

An update for ye lads and ladies. I am busy working on a near by dairy farm getting used to day to day running of a farm and doing night time lambing for some one aswell. Plans were submitted to the council last week so hopefully everything will go well. I have joined Teagasc and I'm currently doing a course for new entrants to dairy farming, it's based from Kildalton but there's groups all over the country. We meet once a month on a new entrant farm. I've picked up lots of information through the group. Well worth doing if anyone is thinking about going down the dairy route. All the animals are alive and well and we are currently busy lambing. I have prices got for parlors, concrete and other bits. I have a meeting with the bank next week.

At the moment I am picking out AI straws, if the weather holds I'll turn out the dairy heifers next week and sell the beef ones fairly soon.

Castlekeeper · 07-03-2020 4:45pm

Keep an open mind when taking in all that "education" anyway, and bear in mind that lot of the present Teagasc blueprint will be obsolete in the next 10 years.

cosatron · 09-03-2020 12:18pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

An update for ye lads and ladies. I am busy working on a near by dairy farm getting used to day to day running of a farm and doing night time lambing for some one aswell. Plans were submitted to the council last week so hopefully everything will go well. I have joined Teagasc and I'm currently doing a course for new entrants to dairy farming, it's based from Kildalton but there's groups all over the country. We meet once a month on a new entrant farm. I've picked up lots of information through the group. Well worth doing if anyone is thinking about going down the dairy route. All the animals are alive and well and we are currently busy lambing. I have prices got for parlors, concrete and other bits. I have a meeting with the bank next week.

At the moment I am picking out AI straws, if the weather holds I'll turn out the dairy heifers next week and sell the beef ones fairly soon.

Did you consider using an angus bull for the first year. we find it very hard to get a heifer from a heifer ready to calf down at 2 year old. she just won't have the strength where as a heifer calf from a mature cow will calf down no bother at 2 years and will be a good strong heifer at that.The bull will take a bit of pressure of you aswell considering your a newbie and might have some missed heats when aiing. best of luck with it.

Green&Red · 09-03-2020 12:30pm

cosatron wrote: »

Did you consider using an angus bull for the first year. we find it very hard to get a heifer from a heifer ready to calf down at 2 year old. she just won't have the strength where as a heifer calf from a mature cow will calf down no bother at 2 years and will be a good strong heifer at that.The bull will take a bit of pressure of you aswell considering your a newbie and might have some missed heats when aiing. best of luck with it.

Would it be awful hard to rent a bull for May & June?

Bass Reeves · 09-03-2020 1:07pm

Green&Red wrote: »

Would it be awful hard to rent a bull for May & June?

Why would you rent, buying an AA bull is virtually cash neutral, they will make as much in the factory after as you paid for them. Some lads just rove the bull at the end of the breeding season and finish him as a sub 24 month bull.

Green&Red · 09-03-2020 1:29pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Why would you rent, buying an AA bull is virtually cash neutral, they will make as much in the factory after as you paid for them. Some lads just rove the bull at the end of the breeding season and finish him as a sub 24 month bull.

Because the man who used to own my farm refuses to do anything I ask him and while I might keep a 78yo out of a field for six weeks I'd struggle to do that for a few months.

A bull is a bull, so I'd like to limit the amount of time he is around for

Odelay · 09-03-2020 1:36pm

Green&Red wrote: »

Because the man who used to own my farm refuses to do anything I ask him and while I might keep a 78yo out of a field for six weeks I'd struggle to do that for a few months.

A bull is a bull, so I'd like to limit the amount of time he is around for

What if you put a ring and chain on him?

Green&Red · 09-03-2020 1:59pm

Odelay wrote: »

What if you put a ring and chain on him?

Could be an option, my dad still thinks he's in his 40s, no regard for how he'd get out of trouble

Water John · 09-03-2020 3:04pm

Odelay wrote: »

What if you put a ring and chain on him?

He'd be proscecuted for cruelty to a senior citizen if he did that.

blue5000 · 14-03-2020 6:20pm

Just put a copper ring on his wrist, it'll help the arthritis.;)

davidk1394 · 16-03-2020 2:35pm

I was thinking about an AA bull alright, I think I'd be nearly impossible for me to pick up every heifer bulling alright. Did any of ye try synchronisin your heifers, how did it go?

Dakota Dan · 16-03-2020 8:39pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

I was thinking about an AA bull alright, I think I'd be nearly impossible for me to pick up every heifer bulling alright. Did any of ye try synchronisin your heifers, how did it go?

I did plenty synchronisation, the injection works best for heifers you’d still want to be watching them 3 times a day though. I used to watch them 3 times a day for 7 days and synchronise the ones that didn’t come bulling and they should come bulling with on 3-5 days any that don’t get a second injection. It keeps the observation to a minimum. I tried the pride but there were too many repeats with heifers.

davidk1394 · 20-04-2020 8:26am

Howdy everyone. Hope ye are all keeping safe these days and enjoying the sun and the few showers of rain. The last of the sheep went yesterday, one farmer bought them all. I am glad they went to one farm instead of being dotted all over the place. Pre breeding started on the heifers and I plan to start AI on the 25th of April. I'm not sure what I'll do with some of the smaller heifers, will I synchronise them or not. At the moment the small heifers are bulling. Their 300kgs and the larger heifers are 330kgs. I was happy with their weight gain over winter and how they cleaned up out on grass.
I sold some AA heifers and I used that money to buy some more calves and it will cover the majority of the AI bill also.
I have quotes for a number of different parlors, contrete work for the sheds and tanks, cubicles and sheds. With the virus causing havoc on world markets and the milk price dropping. I'm planning on cutting back on the budget. Doing the basics and going from there. Planning has been submitted since February and I am talking with the bank so hopefully everything should come together.

The images I've attached below is the final load of sheep leaving the farm, the new heifer calves and some of my smaller heifers.

Mooooo · 20-04-2020 8:52am

Serve the smaller ones on their natural heats. Perhaps keep separate and give a kg of meal and they may catch up. Are they younger than the rest or just smaller in general? If bought from different places they may just be a smaller cow type as well

davidk1394 · 20-04-2020 9:48am

Mooooo wrote: »

Serve the smaller ones on their natural heats. Perhaps keep separate and give a kg of meal and they may catch up. Are they younger than the rest or just smaller in general? If bought from different places they may just be a smaller cow type as well

I have them divided out. Their a month younger amd their out of a smaller type of cow from a different farm.

Mooooo · 20-04-2020 10:10am

davidk1394 wrote: »

I have them divided out. Their a month younger amd their out of a smaller type of cow from a different farm.

You could delay breeding them by 2 weeks they would still be Feb calving if you want. If you can keep them separate till housing they should be fine, would give them every chance. Left a group of mine together big and small and should have separated em as the big ones always out competed the small ones even at grass and they never caught up as much

jaymla627 · 20-04-2020 10:52am

davidk1394 wrote: »

Howdy everyone. Hope ye are all keeping safe these days and enjoying the sun and the few showers of rain. The last of the sheep went yesterday, one farmer bought them all. I am glad they went to one farm instead of being dotted all over the place. Pre breeding started on the heifers and I plan to start AI on the 25th of April. I'm not sure what I'll do with some of the smaller heifers, will I synchronise them or not. At the moment the small heifers are bulling. Their 300kgs and the larger heifers are 330kgs. I was happy with their weight gain over winter and how they cleaned up out on grass.
I sold some AA heifers and I used that money to buy some more calves and it will cover the majority of the AI bill also.
I have quotes for a number of different parlors, contrete work for the sheds and tanks, cubicles and sheds. With the virus causing havoc on world markets and the milk price dropping. I'm planning on cutting back on the budget. Doing the basics and going from there. Planning has been submitted since February and I am talking with the bank so hopefully everything should come together.

The images I've attached below is the final load of sheep leaving the farm, the new heifer calves and some of my smaller heifers.

I’d be trying to get finance sorted as soon as possible, money isn’t going to be thrown around like it was and interest rates will be going up to compensate for bad debts....

kk.man · 20-04-2020 11:15am

davidk1394 wrote: »

Howdy everyone. Hope ye are all keeping safe these days and enjoying the sun and the few showers of rain. The last of the sheep went yesterday, one farmer bought them all. I am glad they went to one farm instead of being dotted all over the place. Pre breeding started on the heifers and I plan to start AI on the 25th of April. I'm not sure what I'll do with some of the smaller heifers, will I synchronise them or not. At the moment the small heifers are bulling. Their 300kgs and the larger heifers are 330kgs. I was happy with their weight gain over winter and how they cleaned up out on grass.
I sold some AA heifers and I used that money to buy some more calves and it will cover the majority of the AI bill also.
I have quotes for a number of different parlors, contrete work for the sheds and tanks, cubicles and sheds. With the virus causing havoc on world markets and the milk price dropping. I'm planning on cutting back on the budget. Doing the basics and going from there. Planning has been submitted since February and I am talking with the bank so hopefully everything should come together.

The images I've attached below is the final load of sheep leaving the farm, the new heifer calves and some of my smaller heifers.

Best of luck with the dairy enterprise, a wise move. Lovely trees and you won't need the electric wire as low from now on!

David's going Dairying.

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