Stabiliser cattle

tanko · 23-01-2014 8:06pm #1

I see that powerful genetics are selling straws from a stabiliser bull. There's a lot of talk at the moment about the lack of milk and maternal traits in suckler cows. Stabilisers have a mixture of native and continental breeds (red Angus x Simmental x gelbvieh ). Strews are €20 euro.

He is supposed to be easy calved and suitable for heifers. I'm thinking of trying a few straws, just wondering does anyone have any experience of, or views on stabiliser cattle.

Muckit · 23-01-2014 8:12pm

There was a vet up north with a herd of them that was featured in the ifj about 5-6 years ago. From what he was saying they were the business.

grassroot1 · 23-01-2014 10:48pm

Billy O Kane is the man you need to talk to, we purchased a bull from him but have no stabilizer crosses calved yet. They are cattle bred for production based on figures (low birthweight high growth rate FCE ) Our calves compared well against all previous crosses from figures going back to 2008 but you will take a hit if selling as weanlings (they can look as bit like aa crosses). Google leachman he bred them first with some research unit in the 60,s the jurys is out here, still so far so good. To see real benefits you need to be on at least the 3rd cross ie almost pure.

bigredbull · 27-01-2014 10:48pm

Hi i keep stabilisers and have done for about 3 years now
first i imported some straws from england my neighbour laughed when he saw the first 3 calves he said they were like rats ,however he was in the sales yard when i was selling them at about 270 days of age bulls were 440 and 460 kgs ,he couldnt believe them
then i bought a bull of billy o kane and had him since (now for sale)
last years weanlings never got a chance with the wet but compared similar to a couple of charlois that i had
this year cows all calved in side 10 weeks from feb 15th to 26th april weanling bulls now average 415 kgs with the heaviest about 440kgs
and the hiefers are average 355 kgs with a couple over 400kgs
i bought some pures last year and they calved in sept oct and a bull born on 16th sept is about 230kgs already
average calving interval this year is 361 days and last year was 356

jerdee · 28-01-2014 4:20pm

would you stick up a few pics...................

bigredbull · 28-01-2014 8:42pm

pics attached as requested

bigredbull · 28-01-2014 8:47pm

a few more
stabiliser cattle 2013 055.jpg

stabiliser cattle 2013 047.jpg

stabiliser cattle 2013 081.jpg

stabiliser cattle 2013 082.jpg

bigredbull · 28-01-2014 8:53pm

all weanlings were born from feb14 to 26 april
and photos were taken in sept

blue5000 · 28-01-2014 9:04pm

Thanks, good neck exercise,:pac: welcome to boards, I thought they were nearly all black, yours are mostly red

tanko · 28-01-2014 9:06pm

Thanks for the photos, nice looking stock. Would most of the calves of the stabiliser bull be polled? Also the newborn calf looks very small, would your calves all be that size at birth?

bigredbull · 28-01-2014 9:45pm

all mine have been polled
but i think some can have horns but the purer you get the more are polled
some have a small horn like shell but vthey never develope horns

bigredbull · 28-01-2014 9:46pm

colour can range from a fawn colour trough to a deep red

bigredbull · 28-01-2014 9:49pm

the calf in picture 47 was my first pure calf
was 18 kgs when born i have to check the tag now to know which one it is
most were about 30 to 40 kgs born

onyerbikepat · 28-01-2014 10:00pm

That calf in picture 47 is seriously small alright. You'd be worried he'd fall down tru the slats.

grassroot1 · 28-01-2014 11:36pm

Most stabilizer bulls will have at least one poll gene (heterozygous I think) calves 50% polled and bulls with 2 genes (homozygous) will always have polled calves have to admit I hate dehorning and one of the reasons I switched to Stablizers

Genghis Cant · 28-01-2014 11:47pm

tanko wrote: »

I see that powerful genetics are selling straws from a stabiliser bull. There's a lot of talk at the moment about the lack of milk and maternal traits in suckler cows. Stabilisers have a mixture of native and continental breeds (red Angus x Simmental x gelbvieh ). Strews are €20.

Is this the only Stabiliser bull available through AI?

tanko · 29-01-2014 12:14am

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Is this the only Stabiliser bull available through AI?

As far as I know, he is the only one so far.

Future Farmer · 27-05-2015 10:32am

He has two Stabilisers now

http://www.powerfulgenetics.com/stabiliser-sire.html

simx · 27-05-2015 1:45pm

bought a couple of cows with calves @ foot last year, sold the calves as weanlings, they were stabilizers, kind of sorry I didn't hold on to them to finish, not bad weights for weanlings only born in mid/late march either, one was a bullock-335kg other a heifer 285kg

kollegeknight · 05-06-2015 6:26pm

After a c-section on a limo heifer, my vet mentioned the breed to me.

I wonder how well do they sell in the mart?

onyerbikepat · 05-06-2015 6:41pm

Any I've seen on Dondeal etc, look like a cross between limousine and a shorthorn.

Dickie10 · 20-11-2017 10:26pm

should we start thinking of these cattle again? seem very efficent on labour

Future Farmer · 21-11-2017 4:50pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

should we start thinking of these cattle again? seem very efficent on labour

It's the ownership issues that seem to put people off....

50HX · 03-12-2017 7:03pm

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-focus-stabilisers-increasing-profits-on-co-tipperary-suckler-farm/

grassroot1 · 03-12-2017 9:34pm

We have bred Stablisers since 2011, they do most of what they say on the tin. The major fault I see however is their feet they are terrible.

Muckit · 03-12-2017 9:37pm

Good to hear some of the practical stuff and not just the good bits.

05-06-2020 1:17am

grassroot1 wrote: »

We have bred Stablisers since 2011, they do most of what they say on the tin. The major fault I see however is their feet they are terrible.

I was considering switching from an easy calving LM to a stabiliser or Angus. Looking for a breed that finishes easily and dosent need to be disbudded

Realistically, unless you are keeping your own heifers as replacements wouldn't the Angus be a better option as you get the bonus at the factory?

Cattlepen · 05-06-2020 2:51am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was considering switching from an easy calving LM to a stabiliser or Angus. Looking for a breed that finishes easily and dosent need to be disbudded

Realistically, unless you are keeping your own heifers as replacements wouldn't the Angus be a better option as you get the bonus at the factory?

You are spot on with your assumption. I have had both breeds and the difference between them is not worth noticing and the bonus in Angus is good. No bonus in stabiliser. They can be a bit inconsistent quality wise tii

05-06-2020 8:07am

Cattlepen wrote: »

You are spot on with your assumption. I have had both breeds and the difference between them is not worth noticing and the bonus in Angus is good. No bonus in stabiliser. They can be a bit inconsistent quality wise tii

Sound, thanks for that. I don't they are that easier calved either that an Angus or even an easy calving LM

Water John · 06-06-2020 2:16pm

If looking for polled, then Speckle Park also worth checking out.

06-06-2020 3:16pm

Water John wrote: »

If looking for polled, then Speckle Park also worth checking out.

What I am looking for is a combination of easy calving, vitality and easily finished.

Polled is good alright as it's one less though job.

Current limousin has docile quiet calves but getting finished quickly would be good before the bulk of cattle hit the market.

Water John · 06-06-2020 3:25pm

Iv'e no experience of finishing them as have just a couple of yearlings in the herd. Even though the breed first came into Cork in 2008, my vet was saying the're quite popular in NI where he worked. They have many of the Angus characteristics, whether that means early finishing, I don't know.

squinn2912 · 06-06-2020 4:54pm

I was at a farm walk on Paul Jameson’s from FJ better farm programme. He had three bulls the old lim, Angus and a new stabiliser bull. The St bull had all the figures and that’s what Paul used when buying him. He looked very plain, no one would have taken him home for their own bull but Paul was adamant he’d be the one to make him more money. He did say that if he wasn’t finishing he’d not be as quick to go that way.

Cattlepen · 06-06-2020 8:46pm

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

squinn2912 · 07-06-2020 12:44am

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

I’d be on that wavelength myself. The aforementioned breeder in Antrim has had the same ad on DoneDeal and in papers for years now. If going that way I think finish Angus or Hereford and get the bonus

DukeCaboom · 07-06-2020 6:09am

See this buck weighted 489kg.

07-06-2020 11:05am

DukeCaboom wrote: »

See this buck weighted 489kg.

Serious sized animal for that age. He must be drinking a good few cows and getting a few kg of nuts

The females look small then. Even at 2 when they calve.

07-06-2020 11:09am

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

This is it. There is a lot of sales talk.

It seems to be a bit of a gamble going for any bull but possibly more with stabiliser as they are a kind of a pick and mix breed for cross breeding.

The guy marketing them in US wears a cowboy hat. He also sells Angus, charlaois etc.

DukeCaboom · 07-06-2020 11:29am

Ive heard Robin say he is burnt out from feeding. He was killing angus off grass and getting say €1100. Putting they're comrade limousin and bb into the sheds for months and they only coming into €1400.

07-06-2020 2:07pm

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Ive heard Robin say he is burnt out from feeding. He was killing angus off grass and getting say €1100. Putting they're comrade limousin and bb into the sheds for months and they only coming into €1400.

Is that young Angus bulls at 16 months off grass?

I've heard stabiliser fellows giving their young bulls 5 kg meal a day so what's the real upside to the breed?

I think it is keeping the females and breeding from them that make stabilisers an option as they appear to be very efficient.

funkey_monkey · 07-06-2020 2:46pm

I was interested in this too.
Hence why I asked on the other thread about how boys were finishing cattle. How much ration they were getting etc.

I think if you are finishing the ST are worthy of consideration. I've seen James Evans on Facebook show his grass fed bulls on his profile, but I'd like to see the details behind that.

We've had some calves off a ST bull. No interventions on either cows or heifers. Calves up quick to suck and not dopey like some ch or wild like the limo. There is no full time farming here so not having issues at calving or vet bills is worthwhile. We AI now so we can pick and choose what we put into the animals based on their ability to handle the bigger breeds. We put easy calving bulls onto the smaller cows/heifers and other older roomier cows get a bull with good growth calves. Means we get the best of genetics each time. Expensive too, but no bull needed and its only a small number of cows anyway.

In saying that, ST are not popular at marts. I'd love to know what the finishers are doing to put weight on the other breeds because if we were to get them in again I think finishing or having a buyer outside of marts would be the best option. Talk is that ST are capable of 1.5kg to 2kg per day but if need to see what they are doing to achieve that.

Their website states they are able to finish off grass. They have a management brochure here which then describes adding concentrate to the feed:

https://stabiliser.co.uk/breeder-resources/management-advice/best-practice-manual/

funkey_monkey · 07-06-2020 6:16pm

DukeCaboom wrote: »

See this buck weighted 489kg.

The one behind is no runt either.

13-06-2020 12:15am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I was interested in this too.
Hence why I asked on the other thread about how boys were finishing cattle. How much ration they were getting etc.

I think if you are finishing the ST are worthy of consideration. I've seen James Evans on Facebook show his grass fed bulls on his profile, but I'd like to see the details behind that.

We've had some calves off a ST bull. No interventions on either cows or heifers. Calves up quick to suck and not dopey like some ch or wild like the limo. There is no full time farming here so not having issues at calving or vet bills is worthwhile. We AI now so we can pick and choose what we put into the animals based on their ability to handle the bigger breeds. We put easy calving bulls onto the smaller cows/heifers and other older roomier cows get a bull with good growth calves. Means we get the best of genetics each time. Expensive too, but no bull needed and its only a small number of cows anyway.

In saying that, ST are not popular at marts. I'd love to know what the finishers are doing to put weight on the other breeds because if we were to get them in again I think finishing or having a buyer outside of marts would be the best option. Talk is that ST are capable of 1.5kg to 2kg per day but if need to see what they are doing to achieve that.

Their website states they are able to finish off grass. They have a management brochure here which then describes adding concentrate to the feed:

https://stabiliser.co.uk/breeder-resources/management-advice/best-practice-manual/

So did you sell your stabiliser calves as yearlings and how did they compare weight wise to say a limousin equivalent?

I hear those impressive weight gains aswell. But on the back of 5 kg meal a day to finish bulls. I know it's a push to get bulls finished on time but for Angus bullocks raised out of sucklers I have heard of them getting no meal in the second year and finished off grass.

The two year old stabiliser breeding heifers I have seen are a long way back from the lmx heifer in the photo of the big stabiliser calf in the forum here.

funkey_monkey · 13-06-2020 2:54pm

They were mostly first crosses and decent shapes - although one held a slimmer frame from her dairy breed mother.
Weight wise I can't remember the exact figures, but I did check and they were between ideal and max on the weight-age guide in the back of the manual I attached above. None were below min.

Not sure what photo you are referring to. I've no experience of finishing the bulls/steers but starting from a first cross I'd say there might be too much of the mother in them - although the blurb is that they should finish well as F1. I'd maybe need to look at a terminal sire if going down that road, but on our scale just happy with a living calf, no vet bills for calving or de-horning etc.

Just read up about James Evans - he has gone organic and got in a specialist to go over a grass management plan - those boys are on a different planet from what we are at.

08-07-2020 1:49am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

They were mostly first crosses and decent shapes - although one held a slimmer frame from her dairy breed mother.
Weight wise I can't remember the exact figures, but I did check and they were between ideal and max on the weight-age guide in the back of the manual I attached above. None were below min.

Not sure what photo you are referring to. I've no experience of finishing the bulls/steers but starting from a first cross I'd say there might be too much of the mother in them - although the blurb is that they should finish well as F1. I'd maybe need to look at a terminal sire if going down that road, but on our scale just happy with a living calf, no vet bills for calving or de-horning etc.

Just read up about James Evans - he has gone organic and got in a specialist to go over a grass management plan - those boys are on a different planet from what we are at.

I see the James Evans guy on a google with articles on the farmers wk and on you tube

I emailed the stabiliser cattle group in the uk but heard nothing back.

Had a look at some angus bulls on done deal, all appear to be aiming at dairy farmers, which is understandable as around 60% of calves on the ground come off dairy.

Cattle seem to me to be crazy expensive at the minute.

Some real gangsters out there selling bulls.

For me I was looking at the stabiliser and angus as they would be easy calving with shorter gestation, polled and easier to finish

orchard farm · 08-07-2020 10:31am

Why not a polled hereford?

funkey_monkey · 08-07-2020 2:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

For me I was looking at the stabiliser and angus as they would be easy calving with shorter gestation, polled and easier to finish

Depending on where you are based, take a run up to Billy O'Kane and have a chat with him and see his setup. He is (was?) a vet and ex UK Beef Farmer of the Year. He should have some stuff for you to look at and talk you through the story.

Are you looking for this year or next year?
How many cows do you have? Would you consider AI'ing for a year and choose based on the outcome? Or hiring in a bull? Don't know if your man Hayden or Talbot would have any, but you could try.

08-07-2020 3:42pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Depending on where you are based, take a run up to Billy O'Kane and have a chat with him and see his setup. He is (was?) a vet and ex UK Beef Farmer of the Year. He should have some stuff for you to look at and talk you through the story.

Are you looking for this year or next year?
How many cows do you have? Would you consider AI'ing for a year and choose based on the outcome? Or hiring in a bull? Don't know if your man Hayden or Talbot would have any, but you could try.

Got an ageing LM stock bull. Could run him with mature cows and 2nd calvers.

He is decentish bull not pulling up any trees.

Had a look at the virtual beef week and they say an unassisted calving rate of 65% is good, sounds total lunacy to me as a part time farmer as id say we assist about 2 or 3 max out of 40 ish females including about 5 heifers a year.

Was planning on buying a new bull to run with 20ish heifers.

Hearing prices of 3000 str for a stabiliser and that seems excessive.

AI sounds like a pain to me but might get me over the hump.

Water John · 08-07-2020 4:25pm

Having to assist one in three is nuts for a part time farmer or any farmer for that matter.

funkey_monkey · 08-07-2020 4:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Got an ageing LM stock bull. Could run him with mature cows and 2nd calvers.

He is decentish bull not pulling up any trees.

Had a look at the virtual beef week and they say an unassisted calving rate of 65% is good, sounds total lunacy to me as a part time farmer as id say we assist about 2 or 3 max out of 40 ish females including about 5 heifers a year.

Was planning on buying a new bull to run with 20ish heifers.

Hearing prices of 3000 str for a stabiliser and that seems excessive.

AI sounds like a pain to me but might get me over the hump.

The pricing is fixed from the multipliers. Call the Stabiliser company directly to double check the pricing.

20 is a bit much for AI. Nobleman is the bull they recommend now for heifers. Has a great sire history - comes from top stock. However, it's his first year and the EBV's aren't there for him yet.
A straw is £20stg and can take a bit of time coming over from Cogent in UK. I think Eurogene is the partner in Ireland.
So that would be £400stg for a single service. AI crowd I was dealing with recommend a double service so that is £800stg 'spunked' away on semen. That's even before you consider CIDR/PRID and the injections.

Your best bet would be to purchase or hire one in. Might be a bit late in the season for a purchase though. The Stabiliser company should be able to get you in touch with someone, but I'd not want to purchase without viewing and Covid makes a mess of that. Only 6 multipliers listed - Sean Hayden in Tipp and five in NI. (Irish Multipliers)

What is your calving pattern? When do you need one out running with these heifers?

08-07-2020 5:06pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

The pricing is fixed from the multipliers. Call the Stabiliser company directly to double check the pricing.

20 is a bit much for AI. Nobleman is the bull they recommend now for heifers. Has a great sire history - comes from top stock. However, it's his first year and the EBV's aren't there for him yet.
A straw is £20stg and can take a bit of time coming over from Cogent in UK. I think Eurogene is the partner in Ireland.
So that would be £400stg for a single service. AI crowd I was dealing with recommend a double service so that is £800stg 'spunked' away on semen. That's even before you consider CIDR/PRID and the injections.

Your best bet would be to purchase or hire one in. Might be a bit late in the season for a purchase though. The Stabiliser company should be able to get you in touch with someone, but I'd not want to purchase without viewing and Covid makes a mess of that. Only 6 multipliers listed - Sean Hayden in Tipp and five in NI. (Irish Multipliers)

What is your calving pattern? When do you need one out running with these heifers?

Looking to calf the heifers at 24 months (next summer) so look to run a bull with them in September/October

Stabiliser cattle

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