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Stabiliser cattle

tanko

I see that powerful genetics are selling straws from a stabiliser bull. There's a lot of talk at the moment about the lack of milk and maternal traits in suckler cows. Stabilisers have a mixture of native and continental breeds (red Angus x Simmental x gelbvieh ). Strews are €20 euro.

He is supposed to be easy calved and suitable for heifers. I'm thinking of trying a few straws, just wondering does anyone have any experience of, or views on stabiliser cattle.

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Water John

Iv'e no experience of finishing them as have just a couple of yearlings in the herd. Even though the breed first came into Cork in 2008, my vet was saying the're quite popular in NI where he worked. They have many of the Angus characteristics, whether that means early finishing, I don't know.

squinn2912

I was at a farm walk on Paul Jameson’s from FJ better farm programme. He had three bulls the old lim, Angus and a new stabiliser bull. The St bull had all the figures and that’s what Paul used when buying him. He looked very plain, no one would have taken him home for their own bull but Paul was adamant he’d be the one to make him more money. He did say that if he wasn’t finishing he’d not be as quick to go that way.

Cattlepen

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

squinn2912

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

I’d be on that wavelength myself. The aforementioned breeder in Antrim has had the same ad on DoneDeal and in papers for years now. If going that way I think finish Angus or Hereford and get the bonus

[Deleted User]

See this buck weighted 489kg.

[Deleted User]

DukeCaboom wrote: »

See this buck weighted 489kg.

Serious sized animal for that age. He must be drinking a good few cows and getting a few kg of nuts

The females look small then. Even at 2 when they calve.

[Deleted User]

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

This is it. There is a lot of sales talk.

It seems to be a bit of a gamble going for any bull but possibly more with stabiliser as they are a kind of a pick and mix breed for cross breeding.

The guy marketing them in US wears a cowboy hat. He also sells Angus, charlaois etc.

[Deleted User]

Ive heard Robin say he is burnt out from feeding. He was killing angus off grass and getting say €1100. Putting they're comrade limousin and bb into the sheds for months and they only coming into €1400.

[Deleted User]

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Ive heard Robin say he is burnt out from feeding. He was killing angus off grass and getting say €1100. Putting they're comrade limousin and bb into the sheds for months and they only coming into €1400.

Is that young Angus bulls at 16 months off grass?

I've heard stabiliser fellows giving their young bulls 5 kg meal a day so what's the real upside to the breed?

I think it is keeping the females and breeding from them that make stabilisers an option as they appear to be very efficient.

[Deleted User]

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I was interested in this too.
Hence why I asked on the other thread about how boys were finishing cattle. How much ration they were getting etc.

I think if you are finishing the ST are worthy of consideration. I've seen James Evans on Facebook show his grass fed bulls on his profile, but I'd like to see the details behind that.

We've had some calves off a ST bull. No interventions on either cows or heifers. Calves up quick to suck and not dopey like some ch or wild like the limo. There is no full time farming here so not having issues at calving or vet bills is worthwhile. We AI now so we can pick and choose what we put into the animals based on their ability to handle the bigger breeds. We put easy calving bulls onto the smaller cows/heifers and other older roomier cows get a bull with good growth calves. Means we get the best of genetics each time. Expensive too, but no bull needed and its only a small number of cows anyway.

In saying that, ST are not popular at marts. I'd love to know what the finishers are doing to put weight on the other breeds because if we were to get them in again I think finishing or having a buyer outside of marts would be the best option. Talk is that ST are capable of 1.5kg to 2kg per day but if need to see what they are doing to achieve that.

Their website states they are able to finish off grass. They have a management brochure here which then describes adding concentrate to the feed:

https://stabiliser.co.uk/breeder-resources/management-advice/best-practice-manual/

So did you sell your stabiliser calves as yearlings and how did they compare weight wise to say a limousin equivalent?

I hear those impressive weight gains aswell. But on the back of 5 kg meal a day to finish bulls. I know it's a push to get bulls finished on time but for Angus bullocks raised out of sucklers I have heard of them getting no meal in the second year and finished off grass.

The two year old stabiliser breeding heifers I have seen are a long way back from the lmx heifer in the photo of the big stabiliser calf in the forum here.

[Deleted User]

funkey_monkey wrote: »

They were mostly first crosses and decent shapes - although one held a slimmer frame from her dairy breed mother.
Weight wise I can't remember the exact figures, but I did check and they were between ideal and max on the weight-age guide in the back of the manual I attached above. None were below min.

Not sure what photo you are referring to. I've no experience of finishing the bulls/steers but starting from a first cross I'd say there might be too much of the mother in them - although the blurb is that they should finish well as F1. I'd maybe need to look at a terminal sire if going down that road, but on our scale just happy with a living calf, no vet bills for calving or de-horning etc.

Just read up about James Evans - he has gone organic and got in a specialist to go over a grass management plan - those boys are on a different planet from what we are at.

I see the James Evans guy on a google with articles on the farmers wk and on you tube

I emailed the stabiliser cattle group in the uk but heard nothing back.

Had a look at some angus bulls on done deal, all appear to be aiming at dairy farmers, which is understandable as around 60% of calves on the ground come off dairy.

Cattle seem to me to be crazy expensive at the minute.

Some real gangsters out there selling bulls.

For me I was looking at the stabiliser and angus as they would be easy calving with shorter gestation, polled and easier to finish

orchard farm

Why not a polled hereford?

[Deleted User]

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Depending on where you are based, take a run up to Billy O'Kane and have a chat with him and see his setup. He is (was?) a vet and ex UK Beef Farmer of the Year. He should have some stuff for you to look at and talk you through the story.

Are you looking for this year or next year?
How many cows do you have? Would you consider AI'ing for a year and choose based on the outcome? Or hiring in a bull? Don't know if your man Hayden or Talbot would have any, but you could try.

Got an ageing LM stock bull. Could run him with mature cows and 2nd calvers.

He is decentish bull not pulling up any trees.

Had a look at the virtual beef week and they say an unassisted calving rate of 65% is good, sounds total lunacy to me as a part time farmer as id say we assist about 2 or 3 max out of 40 ish females including about 5 heifers a year.

Was planning on buying a new bull to run with 20ish heifers.

Hearing prices of 3000 str for a stabiliser and that seems excessive.

AI sounds like a pain to me but might get me over the hump.

Water John

Having to assist one in three is nuts for a part time farmer or any farmer for that matter.

[Deleted User]

funkey_monkey wrote: »

The pricing is fixed from the multipliers. Call the Stabiliser company directly to double check the pricing.

20 is a bit much for AI. Nobleman is the bull they recommend now for heifers. Has a great sire history - comes from top stock. However, it's his first year and the EBV's aren't there for him yet.
A straw is £20stg and can take a bit of time coming over from Cogent in UK. I think Eurogene is the partner in Ireland.
So that would be £400stg for a single service. AI crowd I was dealing with recommend a double service so that is £800stg 'spunked' away on semen. That's even before you consider CIDR/PRID and the injections.

Your best bet would be to purchase or hire one in. Might be a bit late in the season for a purchase though. The Stabiliser company should be able to get you in touch with someone, but I'd not want to purchase without viewing and Covid makes a mess of that. Only 6 multipliers listed - Sean Hayden in Tipp and five in NI. (Irish Multipliers)

What is your calving pattern? When do you need one out running with these heifers?

Looking to calf the heifers at 24 months (next summer) so look to run a bull with them in September/October

carrollsno1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking to calf the heifers at 24 months (next summer) so look to run a bull with them in September/October

Any chance yed give a Saler a go? We bought a bull this year part time farming too. Auld lad was thinking of an Aubrac even though we had Salers from AI the last few years which he was praising to the last so i said to him why didnt ye use an Aubrac straw tje last few years? Went and viewed a Saler bull that evening and bought him in the end.

Water John

I've a selection of purchased yearlings. Aubrac are the quietest and Saler the giddiest, if temperment is an issue. No Satabiliser, but would like to buy a few later in the year.

[Deleted User]

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Any chance yed give a Saler a go? We bought a bull this year part time farming too. Auld lad was thinking of an Aubrac even though we had Salers from AI the last few years which he was praising to the last so i said to him why didnt ye use an Aubrac straw tje last few years? Went and viewed a Saler bull that evening and bought him in the end.

I considered them alright but from research the big push on them is as a good source of replacements (good maternal and wide pelvis). Don't know how easily finished they are etc?

Was considering a red angus or stabiliser. The leachman guy does red angus as well. Red deep canyon (bova ai) is a red angus son of a leachman bull.

Would rather buy a bull than ai though as I think ai might be hassle.

[Deleted User]

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’ve had four different stabiliser bulls. 2 came out of the north and the 2 of them grew terribly bad feet. I think they are breeding their own version of unregistered stabilisers. Plenty of sales talk of performance figures etc but the 2 ended up being factoried. One was registered out of Britain. An ok bull but only equivalent to a medium to good quality Angus.
IMO the stabiliser inventor has been very good at marketing, almost cult like among the people that get into them.
Angus =bonus
Stabiliser=no bonus
Go Angus

The stabiliser breed have there own star system in the UK, the stars are 30% accurate for young bulls. They have stars for finishing and weaning weights.

The whole thing sounds like a cult to me having looked in to it for a while.

Being told that stabilisers finish at 330 kg (bullocks) at 22 months.

Id say the same fellow would tell me that the bull could twirl a cane and tap dance to get the sale over the line.

With all this in mind I am leaning towards angus purely for the easy finishing and bonus.

Cattlepen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The stabiliser breed have there own star system in the UK, the stars are 30% accurate for young bulls. They have stars for finishing and weaning weights.

The whole thing sounds like a cult to me having looked in to it for a while.

Being told that stabilisers finish at 330 kg (bullocks) at 22 months.

Id say the same fellow would tell me that the bull could twirl a cane and tap dance to get the sale over the line.

With all this in mind I am leaning towards angus purely for the easy finishing and bonus.

Thank you for replying. That’s the way I would see it too. There is another vet up the north with what I would class as the best suckler herd I have ever seen. His cows are all genuine British friesian angus x bred back to a good beef Angus bull. Simple, no BS, do a good job. Bull calf on point of weaning as big as the cows with no meal supplementation. It just worked
Stabilisers are exactly as you described, CULTISH !!!
It reminds me of the fairytale of the emperor’s new clothes , only a FOOL can’t see it’s the best thing ever

[Deleted User]

Cattlepen wrote: »

Thank you for replying. That’s the way I would see it too. There is another vet up the north with what I would class as the best suckler herd I have ever seen. His cows are all genuine British friesian angus x bred back to a good beef Angus bull. Simple, no BS, do a good job. Bull calf on point of weaning as big as the cows with no meal supplementation. It just worked
Stabilisers are exactly as you described, CULTISH !!!
It reminds me of the fairytale of the emperor’s new clothes , only a FOOL can’t see it’s the best thing ever

This is it, if they were that good the genie would have been out of the bottle years ago, the stabiliser goes back to the 70s.

It started out nearly all of the cattle will grade as U's then the reality came out and the majority will be R's.

On the ICBF site you can't get terminal breakdown on stabiliser bulls. Thats the king of red flags.

There are so many "operators" selling bulls. They are like car sales men on speed.

Ranch Farm

In your post you mentioned people selling stabiliser bulls as drug taking car salesmen.I do sell stabiliser bulls ,i don't sell cars and i only take drugs when prescribed by my doctor.
I am new on this boards .ie and not sure how it works.I appreciate another mans opinion on different types and breed of cattle but i do not like been branded as something I'm not.
Stabiliser cattle are here to stay and can contribute to the suckler industry ,along side other breeds.

squinn2912

Ranch Farm wrote: »

In your post you mentioned people selling stabiliser bulls as drug taking car salesmen.I do sell stabiliser bulls ,i don't sell cars and i only take drugs when prescribed by my doctor.
I am new on this boards .ie and not sure how it works.I appreciate another mans opinion on different types and breed of cattle but i do not like been branded as something I'm not.
Stabiliser cattle are here to stay and can contribute to the suckler industry ,along side other breeds.

You’ve represented yourself well here in a calm and measured way. I don’t think the post was meant to offend anyone - a bit like calling dealers gangsters without knowing you’re talking to a dealer - not meant to be taken literally but you’re right no one should be feeling insulted here we’re all just sharing information and having a bit of craic.

I’d like to hear a bit more about your operation if you don’t mind. Where are you based and what led you into that breed?

Ranch Farm

I appreciate your respond to my post.I am one of the above mentioned Multipliers from Tipperary.I have been involved with the Stabiliser Cattle Company as a Multiplier for the last 8 years.
They are a very professional company to be involved with .They are not a society or even a Cult.
I was approached by ABP to have a look at some cattle up north which might suit my operation.Having visited Billy O Kanes farm i said to myself if they are no better or worse than what i have at least they are quiet .
Eight years on my trip up north was a good day out .
Since then we have moved on all our original cow and replaced them with Stabilisers.As a four way cross breed ,you may not believe ,but its the first time we have a uniformed type of animal on our farm.
They are a purpose bred beef cow and shouldn't be compared to terminal breeds.

older by the day

More luck to you and your cattle. But what I want to know is there money to be made. What would you expect when crossed with the modern Holstein fresian. Or is it for suckling crossing. How come the breeding bulls are so expensive. What are the purebred finishing like. Show us the figures.

Ranch Farm

The stabiliser cow was bred through selection within 4 breeds to produce a beef cow fit for purpose .Crossing them with holstein cows works quite well ,short gestation like AA .
If producing beef from holstein cows is profitable i don't know as i have no experience with them.
The only figures i have on stabiliser cross holstein heifers killed at 21mts is from one of my bull customers.I will get the weights and grades for you .He was happy with how they killed.

Ranch Farm

I have not gone down the Embyro rout as it can get quiet expensive . I will just buy a bull on his figures and what i like .
Stabiliser cattle are now genotyped like we do here which is good.Multipliers do have a better choice of bulls but saying that anybody can buy one of the top bulls.

[Deleted User]

Robin Talbot had a thing up on twitter lately about the first of the bulls he killed.
Think he's delighted with them.

alixboyd

I've used stabiliser semen for years on Limx cows, very easy to keep on minimal input, extremely quiet and easy to handle. I wouldn't change

Track9

alixboyd wrote: »

I've used stabiliser semen for years on Limx cows, very easy to keep on minimal input, extremely quiet, and easy to handle. I wouldn't change

===========================
Would you mind pointing me where I can buy Stabiliser Straws?
I have been looking for In Calf Heifers ( Stabilisrer ) maybe 3/4 would do, but no success so far ...........Again any ones help would be apprecited .. Thx