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Is alcoholism a disease?

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Comments

  • #2
    Mr Rhode Island Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Mr Rhode Island Red


    More of a disorder than a disease.


  • #3
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    It's an addiction. But. just as you don't 'choose' to have a disease, you don't 'choose' to have an addiction either.


  • #4
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    Both really,most doctors will tell you to treat it like a disease just like diabetes its up to you to manage it,most alcoholics will tell you of the mental obsession with the bottle!my own experience of it,you're never cured,even say ten years down the road if you pick it back up it wont take too long before youre waking up again surrounded by empty cans/bottles....you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber!


  • #5
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7pA3ak4CxI


  • #6
    Alexis Sanchez
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Alexis Sanchez


    No, I don't consider it to be a disease. A disease has to be tangible, it's something you can see under a microscope.

    I looked at definitions and they're so vague that autism could be considered a disease, which is silly.


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  • #7
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Not a disease in my opinion.
    But I do think that some people are propositioned with addictive personalities.
    It's how they cope with that which makes the difference.


  • #8
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    It's an addiction, not a disease, but can lead to disease of the liver/other.


  • #9
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    It is a malady of the soul, rather than the mind or body.

    But doctors or scientists don't have the apparatus to examine one's soul; so they say it is a disease.


  • #10
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    It's an addiction that can lead to medical implications, not a disease.


  • #11
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    I don't mind saying it because it's the truth. I am a long-term alcoholic and not proud of it, but I can tell you first hand that it is a serious addiction of which can, and eventually will, lead to a disease. But it is not a disease itself, it's an addiction full-stop.. Even I know this.

    Cheers ;)


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  • #12
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    funny_feet wrote: »
    no , you cant beat a disease with will power

    you can beat alcoholism with will power and becoming an alcoholic in the first place is as a result of lack of will power



    Alcoholism has been shown to have a genetic component. Therefore certain sections of the population are predisposed.


    Following your logic. We should be able beat cancer and heart disease with will power. I think you'll find that your logic is flawed to put it mildly.


  • #13
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,043 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    I once read or heard somewhere that you could actually be an alcoholic even if you had never taken a drink of alcohol.

    Perhaps that was just an old wives tale.........or was there a truth there?


  • #14
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Hitchens wrote: »
    I once read or heard somewhere that you could actually be an alcoholic even if you had never taken a drink of alcohol.

    Perhaps that was just an old wives tale.........or was there a truth there?

    Like one can be a Christian without ever having heard of Jesus?

    Makes sense.


  • #15
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Hitchens wrote: »
    I once read or heard somewhere that you could actually be an alcoholic even if you had never taken a drink of alcohol.

    Perhaps that was just an old wives tale.........or was there a truth there?


    Because of the genetic element. That's true.


  • #16
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    If alcoholism isn't a disease how come it can be "cured"?


  • #17
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Well the vast majority of the medical world consider it to be a disease so I think that they are more qualified than the average joe to come to that conclusion.

    It is a progressive illness that if left untreated often leads to death. How is that not a disease? An alcoholic may have made the choice to start drinking in the first place, but once the alterations in brain chemistry have been made and physical addiction kicks in, there is little choice in the matter.


  • #18
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    If alcoholism isn't a disease how come it can be "cured"?

    It can only be cured with another few alcoholic drinks and then all is A-Ok


  • #19
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    funny_feet wrote: »
    calling it a disease does a disservice to people with alcohol problems as it excuses there self destructive habbit

    Well it is progressive,anyone that's had a few relapses under their belt will tell you even during periods of sobriety that mothef*cker is doing push-ups in the background just waiting on the moment you take that first drink,you might get away with a the first few times then like a roller coaster that's reached the top of an incline....bang the brakes come off


  • #20
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Trying to give it up is one feat for sure. The with-drawls can be very bad indeed, it could even possibly kill a person. Basically, you cannot function properly without it, it can be nasty coming off of it. I managed 2 weeks off it clean and then at the end of the second week I encountered massive with-drawls and went back on it, the shakes were so bad I had no choice.

    It can be a nasty one, and damn hard to just stop it after 28 years addicted to it.

    I still have to reject the notion that it is a disease.


  • #21
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Very interesting article in The Atlantic from a few months back about alcoholism, Alcoholics Anonymous & competing narratives around problem drinking. It challenges the one-size-fits-all approach to the issue, noting that studies have shown that most heavy drinkers can actually become moderate drinkers with doctor's help, rather than being completely powerless over it. The "incurable disease" theory applied by AA does appear to be pretty shaky scientifically, as are many of the methods promoted by them to help sufferers. The writer travels to Finland where they're trying out a range of different treatments, including drug based ones which diminish a person's desire for alcohol. Apparently most patients can have alcohol after the treatment there, without the uncontrollable urge to binge which they had before. There's some people it doesn't work for of course, who need to stay 100% away from drink for life, but for most aiming for a respectful relationship with alcohol rather than a complete break seems to work better in terms of avoiding relapses into booze oblivion. I'm not medically qualified to say that this is definitely a better approach than the mainstream AA one but it's a very interesting article nonetheless & I'd urge everyone to read it, even if it is quite long.


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  • #22
    Mechanical Clocktail
    Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭Mechanical Clocktail


    It's fully and objectively not a disease, and no one is born an alcoholic. Like smoking, it's a habit you acquire. And for people who have underlying issues it can get out of hand. It becomes a retreat, a release from reality, a way to cope, an escape. And I believe there's a small amount of people that just don't give a damn about their health and they simply like it, and for them that's enough. But no, it's not a disease.


  • #23
    mocha please!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭mocha please!


    My understanding is that in some cases it's an addiction, in the same way that you'd say a smoker is addicted to nicotine - you wouldn't consider them to be ill because of their nicotine addiction.

    However in many other cases, excessive consumption of alcohol is a reaction to certain mental health illnesses, e.g. bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, depression, OCD, psychosis, etc. The sufferers use alcohol to alleviate the symptoms caused by their illness.

    Cases like these should be treated by medical professionals as a dual diagnosis - yes, the patient needs to be safely detoxed from the alcohol, but generally once the underlying mental health issues are resolved, there will no longer be any need for the patient to rely on alcohol as a crutch. So the focus should be on diagnosing and treating whatever else is going on that's making the patient feel the need to self-medicate.


  • #24
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Mechanical Clocktail wrote: »
    It's fully and objectively not a disease, and no one is born an alcoholic. Like smoking, it's a habit you acquire. And for people who have underlying issues it can get out of hand. It becomes a retreat, a release from reality, a way to cope, an escape. And I believe there's a small amount of people that just don't give a damn about their health and they simply like it, and for them that's enough. But no, it's not a disease.

    I really hate when people call alcoholism and nicotine addiction 'habits.'

    They're addictions. Not habits.


  • #25
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    In some ways, it doesn't matter.

    Well, obviously the categorization does matter greatly in some ways but not if it's simply being used to nitpick and belittle the struggle that it presents with Norman Tebbit style moralizing.


  • #26
    mickstupp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    There's something very familiar going on here...


  • #27
    delw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭delw


    People don't choose to have a disease but they choose to drink.To be honest i think it's more of a mental health issue rather than a disease


  • #28
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Alexis Sanchez wrote: »
    No, I don't consider it to be a disease. A disease has to be tangible, it's something you can see under a microscope.

    I looked at definitions and they're so vague that autism could be considered a disease, which is silly.

    Lol.


  • #29
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    If alcoholism isn't a disease how come it can be "cured"?

    A broken leg can be cured too.

    :rolleyes:


  • #30
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    Alcoholism is a mental and physical illness. An alcoholic who stops drinking will experience physical and mental symptoms. A bit condescending and uninformed to dismiss it as a habit. It's not like not bothering to wash the dishes after you cook or something.

    Societies which put addiction in the context of healthcare have been shown to be more effective in dealing with it than societies which deal with it in a judicial context.

    At a personal level, thinking of nicotine addiction as a disease has been more successful than thinking of it as a bad habit. (Have not smoked in over six months.)


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  • #31
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,480 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Disease is the lightweight term for uncontrolled indulgence.


  • #32
    damon5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭damon5


    Anyone hear of spirit possessions that influence a person leading to addictions that are very hard to break...


  • #33
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    damon5 wrote: »
    Anyone hear of spirit possessions that influence a person leading to addictions that are very hard to break...

    Very common. I hear gin & vodka possessions are particularly bad.


  • #34
    damon5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭damon5


    Replies from DIPSTICKS not entertained,life is too short.


  • #35
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    damon5 wrote: »
    Anyone hear of spirit possessions that influence a person leading to addictions that are very hard to break...

    Why believe in fairy-tales than the real reality matrix you live in ?.


  • #36
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    A broken leg can be cured too.

    :rolleyes:

    Not if its me doing the breaking laddie!
    :);)


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  • #37
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    damon5 wrote: »
    Anyone hear of spirit possessions that influence a person leading to addictions that are very hard to break...

    So its not a disease, its Brendan Behan possessing me?!


  • #38
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Wang King wrote: »
    Not if its me doing the breaking laddie!
    :);)

    I sense a bit of Karate in that post. What belt are you ?.


  • #39
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    I sense a bit of Karate in that post. What belt are you ?.

    My iron bar doesn't need a fckin belt!


  • #40
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    I am also addicted to Manhattan dry roasted peanuts, and also ham & cheese fried omelettes. I'm also addicted to learning, philosophy, and seeking to find the answer to life and why we are here in regards to our true purpose.

    Are all of these above addictions a disease ?.


  • #41
    Lucyfur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭Lucyfur


    It's a disease of mind, body and soul.

    In my opinion.


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  • #42
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Lucyfur wrote: »
    It's a disease of mind, body and soul.

    In my opinion.

    Two out of three ain't bad

    In Meatloaf's opinion


  • #43
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Its a really serious medical condition that requires professional help to cure.

    Why does it matter if its a "disease" or not?


  • #44
    miggins
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭miggins


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    I don't mind saying it because it's the truth. I am a long-term alcoholic and not proud of it, but I can tell you first hand that it is a serious addiction of which can, and eventually will, lead to a disease. But it is not a disease itself, it's an addiction full-stop.. Even I know this.

    Cheers ;)

    I really hope you're getting all the help you need I lost a brother in April to alcoholism and have another brother that looks to be going the same way and its heartbreaking to see I also struggled for years with it so I know how difficult it is to kick it. Best of luck man


  • #45
    Dorethy
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Dorethy


    Alexis Sanchez wrote: »
    No, I don't consider it to be a disease. A disease has to be tangible, it's something you can see under a microscope.

    I looked at definitions and they're so vague that autism could be considered a disease, which is silly.

    Don't mean to drag this off topic, but really, autism is a disorder and not a disease. There's a difference. Now, back to the (demon) drink...


  • #46
    Jon Stark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Jon Stark


    the evasion_kid wrote: »
    Well it is progressive,anyone that's had a few relapses under their belt will tell you even during periods of sobriety that mothef*cker is doing push-ups in the background just waiting on the moment you take that first drink,you might get away with a the first few times then like a roller coaster that's reached the top of an incline....bang the brakes come off
    Aye, I know lads and women sober for 5, 6, 7...years and they'll tell you that it's something that never leaves them.

    The temptation is something that will always hang over them and it's something they just have to learn to live with.

    A life long disease that they live with in other words.


  • #47
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Jon Stark wrote: »
    Aye, I know lads and women sober for 5, 6, 7...years and they'll tell you that it's something that never leaves them.

    The temptation is something that will always hang over them and it's something they just have to learn to live with.

    A life long disease that they live with in other words.

    My dad is about 15 years without a drink and says the same - he craves it but has to just deal with it and ignore it


  • #48
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    My dad is about 15 years without a drink and says the same - he craves it but has to just deal with it and ignore it

    My mum is the same, about 15 years off it..and she was a baaad alcoholic for a long time.

    But for her the temptation is not there anymore. She lives on her own, has booze in the house but no inkling to go near it.
    Odd as that may seem she just does not want a drink. But I do think her alcoholism was escapism of sorts...so perhaps slightly different.


  • #49
    Jon Stark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Jon Stark


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    My dad is about 15 years without a drink and says the same - he craves it but has to just deal with it and ignore it

    I think it says a lot about one's character that they can live with something like that for so long. Fair play to your dad, a stronger man than most of us!


  • #50
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    My dad is about 15 years without a drink and says the same - he craves it but has to just deal with it and ignore it

    Read the article I linked to a couple of pages back. A bit long but well worth a look. Challenges the narrative of alcoholics being best advised to swear off drink completely. Finnish research indicates that many problem drinkers (though by no means all) actually do better if they restrict their drinking rather than cut it out totally. Drugs like Naltrexone also seem to be very good at managing one's cravings when used as part of an overall treatment plan.


  • #51
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    If alcoholism is a disease, then it is one that has a clear and 100% effective cure. Wouldn't it br great if all diseases were like that. All addictions are a result of the inability or unwillingness of the 'victim' to change their behaviour.
    It must be galling for people who have genuinely incurable or terminal illnesses to hear addicts looking for sympathy for themselves instead of changing their behaviour and thereby 'curing' themselves.


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