Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

James Brown · 13-11-2018 5:13pm

Yeah, I still can't buy into that 'error'.

13-11-2018 7:20pm

Floppybits wrote: »

Don't forget that one of the Gardai that turned up at the suicide drunk is also the father of Miss D who made the sexual assault allegation against McCabe, which was the file that the copy and paste error was made by Tusla.

Now all these are totally unconnected.

I wish people would leave that girl alone. She made a complaint.
Just because the DPP didn't direct any charges, does not mean the girl was lying .there was no evidence of a criminal offence & no charges were brought. McCabe is innocent. But it does not mean that anyone lied.
I wish the public would just leave the girl out of it.

James Brown · 13-11-2018 7:27pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I wish people would leave that girl alone. She made a complaint.
Just because the DPP didn't direct any charges, does not mean the girl was lying .there was no evidence of a criminal offence & no charges were brought. McCabe is innocent. But it does not mean that anyone lied.
I wish the public would just leave the girl out of it.

I would not see it as an attack on the girl.
It's about the error in the Tulsa report, the circumstances and the players. The girls reputation has not even come up.

blanch152 · 13-11-2018 7:29pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I would not see it as an attack on the girl.
It's about the error in the Tulsa report, the circumstances and the players. The girls reputation has not even come up.

I fully accept you are not overtly blaming the girl.

Nevertheless, by alleging some huge conspiracy between all and sundry, you are rejecting the Tribunal findings.

Water John · 13-11-2018 10:14pm

The notion that three guards would turn up intoxicated in a unmarked car is bizarre. That looks like they were drinking on duty. How a Supt tolerated that is beyond me.

Edward M · 13-11-2018 10:32pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I wish people would leave that girl alone. She made a complaint.
Just because the DPP didn't direct any charges, does not mean the girl was lying .there was no evidence of a criminal offence & no charges were brought. McCabe is innocent. But it does not mean that anyone lied.
I wish the public would just leave the girl out of it.

That's an accusory post in itself too.
If McCabe is innocent then somebody's lying.

Esel · 13-11-2018 11:09pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I wish people would leave that girl alone. She made a complaint.
Just because the DPP didn't direct any charges, does not mean the girl was lying .there was no evidence of a criminal offence & no charges were brought. McCabe is innocent. But it does not mean that anyone lied.
I wish the public would just leave the girl out of it.

Would it be more correct to say that her parent(s) made the complaint on her behalf?

13-11-2018 11:18pm

Esel wrote: »

Would it be more correct to say that her parent(s) made the complaint on her behalf?

No.
She made a complaint for her own reasons.
Nothing to do with her parents

13-11-2018 11:20pm

Edward M wrote: »

That's an accusory post in itself too.
If McCabe is innocent then somebody's lying.

No it's not accusory at all. Lots of statements are made to gardai about lots of matters.
The dpp makes a decision on whether they think there is enough evidence to charge someone & bring the case to court.
That doesn't mean anyone was lying.
And it doesn't mean anyone is guilty of anything, if they ate not charged then they are innocent.

13-11-2018 11:24pm

Water John wrote: »

The notion that three guards would turn up intoxicated in a unmarked car is bizarre. That looks like they were drinking on duty. How a Supt tolerated that is beyond me.

I think we are all aware of how AGS was in past years.
Many of us saw local gardai drinking on duty, especially in the country.
Thankfully, things are changing to a more professional approach.
Do we know that the gardai that showed up to the suicide were actually on duty?

Edward M · 13-11-2018 11:48pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I think we are all aware of how AGS was in past years.
Many of us saw local gardai drinking on duty, especially in the country.
Thankfully, things are changing to a more professional approach.
Do we know that the gardai that showed up to the suicide were actually on duty?

Well we know who to thank for that.

Water John · 14-11-2018 12:11am

They were travelling in an unmarked Garda car.

14-11-2018 12:13am

Water John wrote: »

They were travelling in an unmarked Garda car.

I appreciate that, but that's not to say they were actually on duty.
Now, I don't know, I'm not saying they were or were not. I'm only asking the question.
Just wonderings

Seth Brundle · 14-11-2018 12:43am

bubblypop wrote: »

I appreciate that, but that's not to say they were actually on duty.
Now, I don't know, I'm not saying they were or were not. I'm only asking the question.
Just wonderings

You suggesting that the gardai stole a garda car whilst drunk?

14-11-2018 12:43am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You suggesting that they stole the car whilst drunk?

They may have unauthorisedly used the vehicle. I don't know.
Either way, totally wrong & unprofessional

blanch152 · 14-11-2018 1:45am

Edward M wrote: »

That's an accusory post in itself too.
If McCabe is innocent then somebody's lying.

Not necessarily.

Without expressing an opinion on who is right or wrong, I would point out that inappropriate behaviour is not necessarily criminal.

A girl reported what happened to her. The DPP decided that the evidence didn't suggest that a crime had been committed. That leaves a number of possibilities

(1) The girl was lying.
(2) The alleged behaviour fell short of a crime but was inappropriate
(3) The girl misinterpreted what happened.
(4) The incident was just playacting.

I am sure there are a number of other possible explanations, but of the above 4 possible explanations, only 1 suggests there was lies.

smurgen · 14-11-2018 1:52pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Edward M wrote: »

That's an accusory post in itself too.
If McCabe is innocent then somebody's lying.

Not necessarily.

Without expressing an opinion on who is right or wrong, I would point out that inappropriate behaviour is not necessarily criminal.

A girl reported what happened to her. The DPP decided that the evidence didn't suggest that a crime had been committed. That leaves a number of possibilities

(1) The girl was lying.
(2) The alleged behaviour fell short of a crime but was inappropriate
(3) The girl misinterpreted what happened.
(4) The incident was just playacting.

I am sure there are a number of other possible explanations, but of the above 4 possible explanations, only 1 suggests there was lies.

I think the girl was lying is the most likely given the amount of attacks mccabe received by the gardai.i also would like to know how martin callinhan knew of the tusla file when it was just created.i think all of this needs to be brought into the open to try to rescue the reputation of the gardai.i think people in this country have had enough of bent coppers.

James Brown · 14-11-2018 3:00pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I think we are all aware of how AGS was in past years.
Many of us saw local gardai drinking on duty, especially in the country.
Thankfully, things are changing to a more professional approach.
Do we know that the gardai that showed up to the suicide were actually on duty?

So they were either drinking on duty and turned up drunk to a sensitive situation.
Or, they were off duty, drunk and turned up to a sensitive situation while having no reason to be there.

Whether Ms. D was lying or genuine but mistaken, does not take away from the Tulsa "error" and it being used to smear McCabe.

14-11-2018 3:08pm

smurgen wrote: »

I think the girl was lying is the most likely given the amount of attacks mccabe received by the gardai.

No, it's not likely at all.

smurgen · 14-11-2018 4:25pm

bubblypop wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

I think the girl was lying is the most likely given the amount of attacks mccabe received by the gardai.

No, it's not likely at all.

I disagree and i think the public reckon the entire acusation is a fabrication.

blanch152 · 14-11-2018 5:19pm

smurgen wrote: »

I think the girl was lying is the most likely given the amount of attacks mccabe received by the gardai.i also would like to know how martin callinhan knew of the tusla file when it was just created.i think all of this needs to be brought into the open to try to rescue the reputation of the gardai.i think people in this country have had enough of bent coppers.

This is what the Tribunal said:

"A complaint had been made by Ms D and her family against Maurice McCabe to the gardaí in Cavan in December 2006. Ms D had already been undergoing counselling. The complaint was of a single, brief, alleged clothed incident back when she was six or seven, in perhaps 1998."

"The criminal investigation into the Ms D complaint ended when the Director of Public Prosecutions decided in April 2007 that no offence had been disclosed; even taking the complaint at face value. Social services thereafter decided to take no further action."

The Tribunal does not say that the girl was lying. I don't anyone has accused the girl of lying. The DPP has said that what occurred wasn't a crime. That is the end of the story. The girl wasn't lying but McCabe didn't commit a criminal offence.

14-11-2018 5:20pm

smurgen wrote: »

I disagree and i think the public reckon the entire acusation is a fabrication.

Maybe the public should read the facts

Edward M · 14-11-2018 5:21pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe the public should read the facts

The facts, as they were presented?

14-11-2018 5:25pm

Edward M wrote: »

The facts, as they were presented?

Nobody, anywhere has reported that miss D was lying. The DPP said there was no criminal offence.
That means that the incident she reported was not an offence, not that nothing happened, & not that she was lying.

Edward M · 14-11-2018 5:30pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Nobody, anywhere has reported that miss D was lying. The DPP said there was no criminal offence.
That means that the incident she reported was not an offence, not that nothing happened, & not that she was lying.

So you're saying that there's still an inference that something happened between McCabe and miss D, just not an offence?

14-11-2018 6:26pm

Edward M wrote: »

So you're saying that there's still an inference that something happened between McCabe and miss D, just not an offence?

If you read blanch post above it should explain it to you

Edward M · 14-11-2018 6:32pm

bubblypop wrote: »

If you read blanch post above it should explain it to you

Read it.
Why won't you answer what I asked you yourself?
We've had years of this about McCabe, he got his victory and still the insulating innuendo goes on.

blanch152 · 14-11-2018 6:33pm

Edward M wrote: »

So you're saying that there's still an inference that something happened between McCabe and miss D, just not an offence?

Not a single person who has investigated this has ever accused the girl of lying. It is only on message boards like this that I have seen such an accusation.

Edward M · 14-11-2018 6:47pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Not a single person who has investigated this has ever accused the girl of lying. It is only on message boards like this that I have seen such an accusation.

Case in point I think.
BP was quick enough to jump in and tell us to leave girl D out of it.
Why had tusla a file on McCabe at all?

blanch152 · 14-11-2018 6:50pm

Edward M wrote: »

Read it.
Why won't you answer what I asked you yourself?
We've had years of this about McCabe, he got his victory and still the insulating innuendo goes on.

There is no innuendo, only facts.

The girl reported what happened. The DPP concluded there was no crime. End of facts.

blanch152 · 14-11-2018 6:52pm

Edward M wrote: »

Case in point I think.
BP was quick enough to jump in and tell us to leave girl D out of it.
Why had tusla a file on McCabe at all?

A girl reported that something happened.

Tusla looked into it. The Gardai looked into it. The DPP concluded that no crime was committed.

Unless you are suggesting that all of the above shouldn't have been recorded somewhere, then of course there was a file.

Edward M · 14-11-2018 6:53pm

blanch152 wrote: »

There is no innuendo, only facts.

The girl reported what happened. The DPP concluded there was no crime. End of facts.

So again, your post implies something happened.
If not the girl was lying?

14-11-2018 6:59pm

Edward M wrote: »

So again, your post implies something happened.
If not the girl was lying?

Nobody has ever suggested the girl was lying. She made a complaint about an incident, the DPP directed there was no criminal offence.
Those are the facts. I don't know why you are suggesting otherwise

blanch152 · 14-11-2018 7:04pm

Edward M wrote: »

So again, your post implies something happened.
If not the girl was lying?

I don't think you understand my point at all.

Edward M scratches his balls. Blanch152 reports what happened to the Gardai. The Gardai conclude there was no crime.

So, Edward M didn't commit a crime and Blanch152 wasn't lying. What is so difficult to understand about that?

There are a wide possibility of interpretations of what happened. Was it false memory syndrome? Did the girl overreact to something innocent? Did parental influence make something more of it? Was McCabe's behaviour inappropriate but not criminal?

The Tribunal didn't look at any of those questions. All are possible answers, and there may well be other explanations that also fit the facts. Now that we have a Tribunal Report, all we can focus on are the facts as set out by the Tribunal. Suggesting that the girl was lying or that McCabe was inappropriate go beyond the known facts and into speculation and innuendo. The girl is equally innocent as McCabe on this point. Saying that she is lying is as bad as saying McCabe was inappropriate. Actually it is worse, because saying that she is lying means she may have committed a crime, whereas we know that McCabe did not commit a crime.

Edward M · 14-11-2018 7:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't think you understand my point at all.

Edward M scratches his balls. Blanch152 reports what happened to the Gardai. The Gardai conclude there was no crime.

So, Edward M didn't commit a crime and Blanch152 wasn't lying. What is so difficult to understand about that?

There are a wide possibility of interpretations of what happened. Was it false memory syndrome? Did the girl overreact to something innocent? Did parental influence make something more of it? Was McCabe's behaviour inappropriate but not criminal?

The Tribunal didn't look at any of those questions. All are possible answers, and there may well be other explanations that also fit the facts. Now that we have a Tribunal Report, all we can focus on are the facts as set out by the Tribunal. Suggesting that the girl was lying or that McCabe was inappropriate go beyond the known facts and into speculation and innuendo. The girl is equally innocent as McCabe on this point. Saying that she is lying is as bad as saying McCabe was inappropriate. Actually it is worse, because saying that she is lying means she may have committed a crime, whereas we know that McCabe did not commit a crime.

I appreciate that analogy:).
Why had tusla a file on McCabe?

14-11-2018 7:22pm

Edward M wrote: »

I appreciate that analogy:).
Why had tusla a file on McCabe?

There is an automatic reporting on child protection issues.
If Gardai go to an incident where children are deemed to be in danger, they must report to Tusla.
Same the other way, if tusla are aware of a report about a child protection issues there is mandatory report to the Gardai.
Other professions are also part of the mandatory reporting.

As for the 'cut & paste' issues, I have no idea what they did, or who is at fault.
But they would have a file from the first incident.

Edward M · 14-11-2018 7:32pm

bubblypop wrote: »

There is an automatic reporting on child protection issues.
If Gardai go to an incident where children are deemed to be in danger, they must report to Tusla.
Same the other way, if tusla are aware of a report about a child protection issues there is mandatory report to the Gardai.
Other professions are also part of the mandatory reporting.

As for the 'cut & paste' issues, I have no idea what they did, or who is at fault.
But they would have a file from the first incident.

Why, if the man is innocent. It seems wrong to me.
It actually looks like a set up for the future allegations and "mistake".
I dont blame girl D, but this started from nothing and escalated to full blown rape, just purely accidentally against the biggest garda whistle-blower we've ever had.
To me that is a huge coincidence and I don't believe for one minute it was accidental.
But like the great explanations you've been giving. I suppose it can't be proved conclusively so it come out in the report as what it can at best state it as.

14-11-2018 7:48pm

Mandatory reporting for child protection issues is extremely important.
Or do you think we should go back to the times when everyone knew something but no one said anything?

I have no idea what happened with the tusla file, but we can't stop protecting children & there are systems in place for a reason

James Brown · 14-11-2018 7:49pm

If the initial claim was written off why was it still on the system, is every claim found to be false kept? Also, how a historic case, where no criminality was found, was to reappear to be open to an error escalating it and then it being brought to the attention or all and sundry, without it being vetted first for confirmation especially considering the players, when it did, is what I have trouble accepting. The odds must be astronomical.

14-11-2018 7:51pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If the initial claim was written off why was it still on the system, is every claim found to be false kept? Also, how a historic case, where no criminality was found, was to reappear to be open to an error escalating it and then it being brought to the attention or all and sundry, without it being vetted first for confirmation especially considering the players, when it did, is the trouble I have accepting. The odds must be astronomical.

Yea, to be fair it seems extremely unbelievable.

Water John · 14-11-2018 8:54pm

A file was opened on each of the McCabe children also.

Seth Brundle · 14-11-2018 9:47pm

Water John wrote: »

A file was opened on each of the McCabe children also.

I can't understand how this was done though without talking to people who knew so who compiled the files?

davidmarsh · 14-11-2018 9:58pm

It seems quite likely to me that the girl was lying. And quite likely that her father was behind it.

blanch152 · 15-11-2018 12:39am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If the initial claim was written off why was it still on the system, is every claim found to be false kept? Also, how a historic case, where no criminality was found, was to reappear to be open to an error escalating it and then it being brought to the attention or all and sundry, without it being vetted first for confirmation especially considering the players, when it did, is what I have trouble accepting. The odds must be astronomical.

Tusla maintain files even where somebody hasn't been prosecuted. The file was on what happened to Ms. D., not what McCabe did. It seems that distinction is too difficult for some to understand.

There are thousands of cases in Tusla where women and children who have been abused refuse to make Garda complaints. Even when Tusla refer the complaints to Gardai, the investigation doesn't get far if the accusers don't co-operate. Those women and children still deserve help from Tusla even if they are not willing to report the abuse, or where the abuse doesn't cross the line to be a crime.

It was reopened because Ms. D returned to Tusla. All you have to do is read the Tribunal report.

15-11-2018 7:26am

davidmarsh wrote: »

It seems quite likely to me that the girl was lying. And quite likely that her father was behind it.

Disgusting thing to say

smurgen · 15-11-2018 8:42am

bubblypop wrote: »

davidmarsh wrote: »

It seems quite likely to me that the girl was lying. And quite likely that her father was behind it.

Disgusting thing to say

Save your faux outrage for McCabe.Hopefully he takes civil action against the lot of them.

Edward M · 15-11-2018 9:57am

blanch152 wrote: »

Tusla maintain files even where somebody hasn't been prosecuted. The file was on what happened to Ms. D., not what McCabe did. It seems that distinction is too difficult for some to understand.

There are thousands of cases in Tusla where women and children who have been abused refuse to make Garda complaints. Even when Tusla refer the complaints to Gardai, the investigation doesn't get far if the accusers don't co-operate. Those women and children still deserve help from Tusla even if they are not willing to report the abuse, or where the abuse doesn't cross the line to be a crime.

It was reopened because Ms. D returned to Tusla. All you have to do is read the Tribunal report.

It's all too coincidental.
Given the tribunals findings on Callinan and his campaign to smear McCabe, along with Taylors help, who knows what others, this stinks to high heaven.

blanch152 · 15-11-2018 10:50am

Edward M wrote: »

It's all too coincidental.
Given the tribunals findings on Callinan and his campaign to smear McCabe, along with Taylors help, who knows what others, this stinks to high heaven.

Read the Tribunal report. The big issue was the attempt by people in Tusla at a relatively junior level to cover up their mistake rather than give the central people the full file.

Miike · 16-11-2018 3:12am

Sammber wrote: »

wow so much trump derangement syndrome in this echo chamber
trump 2020 and there is nothing you fag gots can do about it
ahahahahahahahaha

Did mammy not show you enough love or something?

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 9:27am

Edward M wrote: »

It's all too coincidental.
Given the tribunals findings on Callinan and his campaign to smear McCabe, along with Taylors help, who knows what others, this stinks to high heaven.

We live in an age when an untested allegation is enough for some and there are plenty who will use an allegation to insinuate and smear.

In this case it is going to cost the taxpayer a lot of money unfortunately but McCabe and his family deserve to be compensated for the damage it did and will continue to do as it is whispered around the unscrupulous.

Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

Comments