Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

ssaye2 · 19-09-2014 11:18am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Kane Douglas at 15? Well thats certainly a curve ball from Mattie!

He is an unreal fullback, wait and see.

.ak · 19-09-2014 11:26am

Having a FB that's nearly 7 foot must have it's advantages...

ssaye2 · 19-09-2014 12:03pm

35k for Munster game sold so far.

Plenty of time for more

former legend · 19-09-2014 12:08pm

Yeah that's a good number with two more weeks to go until the match. Hopefully the "10 euro off Quins ticket" deal will shift a few more.

Clegg · 19-09-2014 9:31pm

Can we buyout the rest of Sexton's contract and have him back early? Out half is a problem area. Gopperth has his fans but I'm not one of them. He's military medium. We have a good set of forwards but we're all over the shop in the backs. No attacking structures whatsoever.

former legend · 19-09-2014 9:57pm

I said it in the preview to the Connacht game and unfortunately I was proved right. Madigan is not a 12 and tonight showed why. Connacht got all up in his sh*t and he couldn't cope. Hopefully this is the end of it now D'Arcy is back.

Rest of the post-mortem to follow.

jacothelad · 19-09-2014 10:01pm

former legend wrote: »

I said it in the preview to the Connacht game and unfortunately I was proved right. Madigan is not a 12 and tonight showed why. Connacht got all up in his sh*t and he couldn't cope. Hopefully this is the end of it now D'Arcy is back.

Rest of the post-mortem to follow.

I haven't watched the game yet but isn't it a bit premature to write him off so early on the back of being in a losing 15 /23 away to a pretty well set side. he is a very interesting talent.

awec · 19-09-2014 10:02pm

former legend wrote: »

I said it in the preview to the Connacht game and unfortunately I was proved right. Madigan is not a 12 and tonight showed why. Connacht got all up in his sh*t and he couldn't cope. Hopefully this is the end of it now D'Arcy is back.

Rest of the post-mortem to follow.

If Madigan is not a 12 then what is he?

Doesn't seem to matter what position he plays if that's the case, he can't cope at 10 when the opposition get right up his chuff either.

Clegg · 19-09-2014 10:03pm

Rhys Ruddock is an absolute hero. Takes three players to bring him down and he still gets over the gain line. Decent on the floor too. Doesn't have the explosiveness of SoB but is every bit as vital to the way Leinster perform imo.

I think the pack is an area of strength now. Not a lot of depth in the second row but the starting players are decent enough. I'd argue that we have greater quality squad depth there than we had when we were winning everything with Schmidt. The biggest problem is at halfback and centre. No structure or control there. We'll regain some of that when Sexton returns, but for now we're in a bit of bother.

Podge_irl · 19-09-2014 10:05pm

More depth maybe but a worse first XV. Particularly from 9 out.

former legend · 19-09-2014 10:06pm

jacothelad wrote: »

I haven't watched the game yet but isn't it a bit premature to write him off so early on the back of being in a losing 15 /23 away to a pretty well set side. he is a very interesting talent.

I'm not basing it just on tonight. He has all the skills for 12 but it's just not happening. The Scarlets game was utterly meaningless.

former legend · 19-09-2014 10:06pm

awec wrote: »

If Madigan is not a 12 then what is he?

Doesn't seem to matter what position he plays if that's the case, he can't cope at 10 when the opposition get right up his chuff either.

He's a 22 I'm afraid.

Hagz · 19-09-2014 10:06pm

awec wrote: »

If Madigan is not a 12 then what is he?

Doesn't seem to matter what position he plays if that's the case, he can't cope at 10 when the opposition get right up his chuff either.

That's the bottom line. Madigan is brilliant when his pack are coasting, but he's lost at sea when the pressure's on.

But that's not a reaction to tonight's game, that's always been the case. Wonderful player but infuriating at times.

molloyjh · 19-09-2014 11:12pm

Hagz wrote: »

That's the bottom line. Madigan is brilliant when his pack are coasting, but he's lost at sea when the pressure's on.

But that's not a reaction to tonight's game, that's always been the case. Wonderful player but infuriating at times.

Is it a problem with Mads himself though? A couple of thoughts on Leinster after tonight in no particular order:

We can be so often guilty of under resourcing our rucks. Whether that's because we want to use forwards as link men so deliberately keep them out of the ruck or just simply players not doing their job I don't know.
Our attacking game is painfully predictable. We have 3 settings. Go wide fast, give to forwards standing one out and stationary or the inside ball. Going wide worked really well last week because Scarlets defended narrow, but watch the second half of today back again and see how often we created space. I'd say you could count it on one hand, if at all.
MOC doesn't seem to trust younger players. What players can we point to that he has brought through? Moore was starting to get game time under Joe. Furlong and Byrne are about the only 2 that spring to mind. What young backs has he shown any faith in? Is that because the players themselves aren't up to it or because MOC is too conservative?
Half backs are proving to be a real problem for Leinster. Particularly out-half. Neither Mads nor Gopperth appear to be able to control a game. They can look great when given the time and space, but otherwise they can be made to look painfully average. Sexton should help here, but MOCs reliance on Boss and refusal to give Luke McGrath any real game time is becoming more than a joke at this stage. How the hell can a player kick on without game time? He's captained Leinster A and Ireland U20 sides but as soon as he's knocking on the senior door he's ignored.
Players are looking like they are getting frustrated and not sticking with the system when things are going against them. That to me shows a real lack of faith in what they are being told to do. Look at Rob Kearney today running down blind alleys trying to make something happen. Individuals are forcing things and making errors as a result. If they had faith in the systems this shouldn't be happening.

That's 2 of 3 performances that simply weren't good enough. And while some are happy to put that down to early season rustiness I don't think we can ignore the fact that this kind of performance was a common thing last season. When did we last put together 3 or 4 successive performances?

I was one of the first to publicly question MOC. I have said repeatedly that despite my misgivings he needed to be given time. And maybe this is an emotive response to today, but he really needs to get this together soon. We need to start putting in successive performances before Christmas. If we fail to do that then we need to call it. It should not take a good coach a year and a half to get a team with Leinsters quality to play well for a couple of weeks in a row. If he can't do it in that time then how can we have any faith that he'll do it at all?

I dearly hope he can do it and we can move on from this because if we can't I'd be genuinely worry about the short term impact that could have on this squad. Getting a winning mentality back can be a lot harder than losing it. And if we lose it it'll take a really good coach to turn things around.

thomond2006 · 19-09-2014 11:18pm

You're going for five in a row against Munster in the Aviva and seven in a row in Dublin (if you include the 30-0 and the ML Semi-Final win at the RDS).

Now that just won't do.

molloyjh · 19-09-2014 11:24pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

You're going for five in a row against Munster in the Aviva and seven in a row in Dublin (if you include the 30-0 and the ML Semi-Final win at the RDS).

Now that just won't do.

I wonder can I eject you from our group? :cool:

Podge_irl · 19-09-2014 11:27pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

You're going for five in a row against Munster in the Aviva and seven in a row in Dublin (if you include the 30-0 and the ML Semi-Final win at the RDS).

Now that just won't do.

The 30-0 was a normal league game no? Why wouldn't you include it?

That was awesome.

Tox56 · 20-09-2014 12:41am

former legend wrote: »

I said it in the preview to the Connacht game and unfortunately I was proved right. Madigan is not a 12 and tonight showed why. Connacht got all up in his sh*t and he couldn't cope. Hopefully this is the end of it now D'Arcy is back.

Rest of the post-mortem to follow.

former legend wrote: »

He's a 22 I'm afraid.

Thing is on tonight you could say the same for Gopperth, and if Madigan had put in the same performance Gopperth did from 10 he'd be slaughtered from everywhere, ditto for the Glasgow game.

As much it is is true that Madigan is favoured by a lot of fans, he is also hyper analysed to an extent way beyond Gopperth, every performance is put in an Irish context and his future is judged upon it. Gopperth does get criticised but nobody really cares or focus on his development because he's not Irish and was only ever going to be a short term player for us, and these posts are pretty much a prime example of that

We're playing Cardiff at home next week who we should absolutely look to smash and I'd like to see Madigan at 10 outside Reddan with D'Arcy at 12 and Macken at 13, who remarkably was probably the only back who came out of the game somewhat positively

.ak · 20-09-2014 12:45am

To be honest, I say this as a gopps fan, but our 10 really stank tonight. No back got decent ball from him, he never set his backline and his passing with piss poor. I wouldn't read into madigan's performance on the back of that.

.ak · 20-09-2014 12:47am

Tox56 wrote: »

Thing is on tonight you could say the same for Gopperth, and if Madigan had put in the same performance Gopperth did from 10 he'd be slaughtered from everywhere, ditto for the Glasgow game.

As much it is is true that Madigan is favoured by a lot of fans, he is also hyper analysed to an extent way beyond Gopperth, every performance is put in an Irish context and his future is judged upon it. Gopperth does get criticised but nobody really cares or focus on his development because he's not Irish and was only ever going to be a short term player for us, and these posts are pretty much a prime example of that

We're playing Cardiff at home next week who we should absolutely look to smash and I'd like to see Madigan at 10 outside Reddan with D'Arcy at 12 and Macken at 13, who remarkably was probably the only back who came out of the game somewhat positively

I don't think Macken had a positive game. He did have a few nice eye catching runs. But he was guilty of eating up outside space again and just won't straighten up. As an outside centre that's a massive cardinal sin and you can see why, he just takes everyone outside of him out of the game.

Tox56 · 20-09-2014 12:49am

.ak wrote: »

I don't think Macken had a positive game. He did have a few nice eye catching runs. But he was guilty of eating up outside space again and just won't straighten up. As an outside centre that's a massive cardinal sin and you can see why, he just takes everyone outside of him out of the game.

He is a very stupid player on the pitch there really is no denying it, but he is getting a good run in the side and is getting better/more comfortable with every game, we're not going to be winning European cups with him at 13 but if he can become a reliable/exciting option in the Pro12 for us with time that would be a success.

.ak · 20-09-2014 12:53am

I just think he should play more on the wing. But maybe his positioning isn't up to scratch either.

Neil3030 · 20-09-2014 12:54am

Dominic ryan looks jacked. Not skippin his meals that's for sure.

Hagz · 20-09-2014 1:49am

.ak wrote: »

I don't think Macken had a positive game. He did have a few nice eye catching runs. But he was guilty of eating up outside space again and just won't straighten up. As an outside centre that's a massive cardinal sin and you can see why, he just takes everyone outside of him out of the game.

If I was guilty of being very harsh on Mike McCarthy before the game, you're certainly guilty of being very harsh on Macken after the game. He touched the ball 5 times in the match.
The first time Reddan threw him a howler down the blindside, he juked the onrushing defender and made good ground.
The second time he was stood at out-half, McFadden asked him to kick it so he put in a grubber that came to nothing.
The third time he ghosted past 3 defenders and went about 50 metres.
The fourth time he came on the switch inside Heaslip off set-piece and crashed it up.
And the final time he received the ball deep with McCarthy and McFadden outside him, he elected to go himself and made about 30 metres.

As far as ball in hand goes, he was brilliant.

Hagz · 20-09-2014 2:29am

Shane Jennings suffered a hamstring injury apparently. That's Murphy, Jennings and Leavy injured. Suppose we'll be seeing a lot more of Dippy.

former legend · 20-09-2014 3:40am

Tox56 wrote: »

Thing is on tonight you could say the same for Gopperth, and if Madigan had put in the same performance Gopperth did from 10 he'd be slaughtered from everywhere, ditto for the Glasgow game.

As much it is is true that Madigan is favoured by a lot of fans, he is also hyper analysed to an extent way beyond Gopperth, every performance is put in an Irish context and his future is judged upon it. Gopperth does get criticised but nobody really cares or focus on his development because he's not Irish and was only ever going to be a short term player for us, and these posts are pretty much a prime example of that

We're playing Cardiff at home next week who we should absolutely look to smash and I'd like to see Madigan at 10 outside Reddan with D'Arcy at 12 and Macken at 13, who remarkably was probably the only back who came out of the game somewhat positively

I don't disagree with any of that, Gopperth didn't have a good game at all but the answer to "Madigan was poor" is not "well so was Gopperth".

Let them battle it out for the ten jersey but the 12 experiment is hopefully over.

Fwiw, I don't think we'd have fared any better with Madigan at 10 tonight, it was exactly the sort of match that he has always hated.

Agree re Macken, he at least managed to step an opponent and break the line, not sure anyone else did.

vienne86 · 20-09-2014 8:54am

former legend wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that, Gopperth didn't have a good game at all but the answer to "Madigan was poor" is not "well so was Gopperth".

Let them battle it out for the ten jersey but the 12 experiment is hopefully over.

Fwiw, I don't think we'd have fared any better with Madigan at 10 tonight, it was exactly the sort of match that he has always hated.

Agree re Macken, he at least managed to step an opponent and break the line, not sure anyone else did.

I don't know what MOC might do with Madigan, but we need to sort out something at 10, and quickly. That was woeful last night.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 20-09-2014 9:07am

Does Macken remind anyone else of Carr when he looked good in Connacht

Can run and if there is space and maybe beat a defender but can barely pass and never creates something with a pass and is often absent in defence.

former legend · 20-09-2014 9:13am

vienne86 wrote: »

I don't know what MOC might do with Madigan, but we need to sort out something at 10, and quickly. That was woeful last night.

Needs to get Madigan to understand that he has all the ability to be a good out half but must learn to judge the play... Don't run every ball, not every pass has to be flat and right on the gain line, sometimes it's ok to sit deep and kick for position.

If Madigan can do that, he'll improve vastly.

.ak · 20-09-2014 9:36am

I still think madigan's future at Leinster is at 12. It won't happen over night. Fwiw he held his shape well last night, but he had to deal with muck ball.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread V

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