Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

yosemitesam1 · 17-10-2019 12:41pm

K.G. wrote: »

You do know that if calf prices fall and ration price s remain close to where they are its the suckler cow that is totally uneconomic.

At what point do sucklers make more sense though. If you have the land, outwinter and put the bare minimum into them. At least you're not spending as much cash to not generate a return on land/labour anyway

Gawddawggonnit · 17-10-2019 12:41pm

Panch18 wrote: »

Out of curiosity what do ye do with the bull calves in France? You seem to be using a fairly high output Holstein cows so your bull calves must be nothing to write home about from a grading point of view. What do you and similar to you do with yer bulls??

Veal for pure Holstein.
Beef when the cows are crossed with proper beef bulls.

Btw I’ve no problem whatsoever in getting those calves to 400+kg hanging at under 16mts.
Profitability of producing such beef is questionable however...

Panch18 · 17-10-2019 1:23pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Veal for pure Holstein.
Beef when the cows are crossed with proper beef bulls.

Btw I’ve no problem whatsoever in getting those calves to 400+kg hanging at under 16mts.
Profitability of producing such beef is questionable however...

Ok so similar to Ireland

Only real difference is that we are exporting ours for veal

Say my name · 17-10-2019 1:30pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’ve followed this thread because I think it’s an important issue.

There’s the posters that agree there shouldn’t be slaughtering of newborns...

There’s the posters that say... ‘be grand’.

Either way, slaughtering new born calves, or as one poster suggested, slaughter in utero, will not wash with consumers.

How long before the animal welfare cadre do an exposé on the thousands of newborns going for ‘kebabs’...? Or an auld ‘Prime Time Investigates’...?
FR2 tv would absolutely love to dig the dirt on newborns being slaughtered. They’d fatten making such an exposé!

IFA/Creed etc do not need to be explaining or even trying to justify such practices. The biggest threat, imo, is if the ‘be grand’ brigade get their way and the industry blindly continues down the track...too late to change when the damage is done.

I wouldn't put much mass on a Prime Time investigates program being aired.

All the talk was of a similar program about the thoroughbred industry to that greyhound one already made and ready to be aired. Only the high powers that be in this country got it quashed before it could be aired.
The sponsors who abandoned the greyhound industry would surely be wondering what to do if that one aired.
It's all talk of course.

You might get a foreign news crew or social media warriors but not our own crew.

If you have animals no matter the circumstance you'll always find some dirt or situation to bend to an activists favour.
There's not a rosy picture for any animal activity in the future if you want to pander and please the activists.
Everything is included in that from fishing and hunting, to horse racing and animal farming. It's a slippery slope to hell.

That's not to say there shouldn't be improvements if improvements are needed but equally so we all know our businesses and rash decisions shouldn't be made by us or ones above us.

Mooooo · 17-10-2019 1:32pm

Muckit wrote: »

According to research carried out by Teagasc on video l posted, rearing dairy bred stock to beef at current beef prices does not provide a return.... EVEN if a FREISAIN bull calf is got for FREE.

This is why l started this thread. It fairly serious IMO. Lads are talking about jerseys and that if u have anything other than Jersey calves it's not an issue for you. Well it will and it is.

Dairy farmers would want to educate themselves on the grid and see how these cattle are treated and the heavy penalties they face.

The same can be said for all parts of the beef industry , how much did the suckler demo herds lose? With regard to beef it's simply the number of cattle in the country has the factories doing what they want, and throwing brexit in as an excuse to hammer it down as well. Live exports are the only alternative to Larry be that 400kg bulls or calves. If the talk is dairy calves are flooding the market causing the price to drop what have the apparent 66% of suckler herds that make losses every year been doing? The exact same thing, but instead of milking cow's supplementing it it's the off farm job.
'Re euthanising at birth on farm that won't happen and won't be allowed to happen. If mortality rates are out of whack the department will be down on top of it hard. Prices are likely to be depressed as they were last year. As herds have started to reach peak numbers there will also be more beef crosses on the market. The jersey x is still an issue, overplayed imo as all the media would be showing crossbred herds on the paper but je straws are still below 8% of straws used in ai, but an issue all the same.

Mooooo · 17-10-2019 1:33pm

Panch18 wrote: »

Ok so similar to Ireland

Only real difference is that we are exporting ours for veal

Access to cheaper grain on the continent tho

Panch18 · 17-10-2019 1:39pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Access to cheaper grain on the continent tho

That’s true, I’m not advocating we go down the 16 month bull beef route, just that we have calves that go on to full beef and we have calves that go to veal, albeit the veal is abroad

Gawddawggonnit · 17-10-2019 1:51pm

Panch18 wrote: »

Ok so similar to Ireland

Only real difference is that we are exporting ours for veal

No not the same.
A purebred hol male calf can be successfully produced for veal.
The xbred can’t.

I bred a few hols to Jersey. I won’t be ever doing that again. Nobody would take them even if I attached a €50 note to their ear tag. I finished up trying to produce them for veal...no sale, so ran them on. They turned out to be cranky fcukers so we castrated them. They, not all, ended going for dog food. One is happily keeping a large garden grazed on the outskirts of the village...

Panch18 · 17-10-2019 2:56pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

No not the same.
A purebred hol male calf can be successfully produced for veal.
The xbred can’t.

I bred a few hols to Jersey. I won’t be ever doing that again. Nobody would take them even if I attached a €50 note to their ear tag. I finished up trying to produce them for veal...no sale, so ran them on. They turned out to be cranky fcukers so we castrated them. They, not all, ended going for dog food. One is happily keeping a large garden grazed on the outskirts of the village...

The vast majority of cows in Ireland have no jersey in them

It’s not like we have an epidemic of jersey or something, there are certainly some jersey that need a plan for them but there’s no need for people (not saying you) to make a mountain out of a molehill.

What’s ironic is that beef from a jersey is delicious and often wins tasting contests, it’s certainly far better than beef from a blue or a charlois. But that’s a different story

Gawddawggonnit · 17-10-2019 3:03pm

K.G. · 17-10-2019 3:03pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

What exactly has the suckler cow/calf got to do with slaughtering newborn calves KG?

Merely pointing out that economic s have gone clesn out the window with along time in the beef game.

Injuryprone · 17-10-2019 4:57pm

I personally think that a good first step would be to have marts allow negative bidding. It wouldn't be long waking fellas up if their calves were sold for -€100.

tanko · 17-10-2019 5:18pm

K.G. wrote: »

Merely pointing out that economic s have gone clesn out the window with along time in the beef game.

The abolition of milk quotas has fcuked up the beef game.
It will be interesting to see how the economics of white gold production stack up in the coming years.

farawaygrass · 17-10-2019 5:36pm

Injuryprone wrote: »

I personally think that a good first step would be to have marts allow negative bidding. It wouldn't be long waking fellas up if their calves were sold for -€100.

I was just about to post roughly the same. Why does every dairy farmer expect to be paid for the calf when there is obviously a problem? There shouldn’t be an issue paying 50-100 euro to pay a man to buy jex calves, after all isn’t the cow paying her way more that a British friesian (and the farmer would be paid for them calves). I don’t like knocking any farmer or sector as everyone is trying their best at the end of the day, but sone dairy farmers want their cake and eat it too

Base price · 17-10-2019 6:00pm

_Brian wrote: »

If we get to treating a million animals a year as a byproduct and don’t care what happens them we are loosing our farming ethos to factory farming and I’d rather see the country planted end to end.

Male chicks (a byproduct of the egg industry) are culled after hatching by the hundreds of thousands every day. The don't carry enough meat genetics and therefore they are not viable to feed on. Some dairy bull calves unfortunately fall into the same category. I should know as I've reared them from calves, feed them on to finish both as bulls and bullocks and it's not viable and that was before the beef prices collapsed.

What do people suggest should be done with the lesser quality dairy bull calf?
Edit - And don't say that beef prices need to rise to over €4/kg cause that ain't going to happen in the immediate future unless there is some sort of beef crises in the EU due to disease etc.

K.G. · 17-10-2019 6:01pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

I was just about to post roughly the same. Why does every dairy farmer expect to be paid for the calf when there is obviously a problem? There shouldn’t be an issue paying 50-100 euro to pay a man to buy jex calves, after all isn’t the cow paying her way more that a British friesian (and the farmer would be paid for them calves). I don’t like knocking any farmer or sector as everyone is trying their best at the end of the day, but sone dairy farmers want their cake and eat it too

But calves do remain insold already in marts and some are for 2 or 5 euro.any calf under 50 euro is already in negative territory .i posted a month ago in dairy chitchat.thread that.dairy.lads.should have a.plan for a difficult calf trade in 2019.just get on with it.i reckon a year.or 2 and things and things will settle .one time lads used to say calf sales.used to buy your fertilizer for tje year but that day is long gone.calf prices have already moved into negative territory in west.cork with along time

K.G. · 17-10-2019 6:06pm

tanko wrote: »

The abolition of milk quotas has fcuked up the beef game.
It will be interesting to see how the economics of white gold production stack up in the coming years.

Your opinion .many of us used to have a beef operation. The reason we dont is there is no money in it.no fortune in milking either but its a lot better than beef .

Gawddawggonnit · 17-10-2019 7:29pm

Base price wrote: »

Male chicks (a byproduct of the egg industry) are culled after hatching by the hundreds of thousands every day. The don't carry enough meat genetics and therefore they are not viable to feed on. Some dairy bull calves unfortunately fall into the same category. I should know as I've reared them from calves, feed them on to finish both as bulls and bullocks and it's not viable and that was before the beef prices collapsed.

What do people suggest should be done with the lesser quality dairy bull calf?
Edit - And don't say that beef prices need to rise to over €4/kg cause that ain't going to happen in the immediate future unless there is some sort of beef crises in the EU due to disease etc.

Male chicks don’t carry the same gravity as a male calf BP.
Apples and oranges.

I rear a few chickens in intensive houses. The reality of my system is that there’s no future for such systems...consumers have spoken with their wallets. Animal welfare is vital now.
My project for 2020 is to change to an outdoor setup.
Get with it or get out...

_Brian · 17-10-2019 7:34pm

Base price wrote: »

Male chicks (a byproduct of the egg industry) are culled after hatching by the hundreds of thousands every day. The don't carry enough meat genetics and therefore they are not viable to feed on. Some dairy bull calves unfortunately fall into the same category. I should know as I've reared them from calves, feed them on to finish both as bulls and bullocks and it's not viable and that was before the beef prices collapsed.

What do people suggest should be done with the lesser quality dairy bull calf?
Edit - And don't say that beef prices need to rise to over €4/kg cause that ain't going to happen in the immediate future unless there is some sort of beef crises in the EU due to disease etc.

I've seen the videos of the male chicks going into the shredders and its frankly disgusting to see and if it were outlawed in the morning (and i think it should) the industry would find a solution because it had to.

You're not going to hear me saying that beef prices should magically move above €4/kg, I've said previously that because of the massive overproduction in beef in Ireland there is no need to raise prices and indeed I see prices slipping again after 1st Nov. When you overproduce anything it looses its value.

There is an industry wide disconnect between production and market, a cohort have fallen for the Teagasc spin that to turn profitability in Beef you need big new sheds, increased numbers and of course increased efficiencies, the last bit is their get out so iof your not making money you must be inefficient.... no mention that they have pushed numbers beyond market requirments and so the price has collapsed.

I honestly don't know the solution for non viable calves is, but the bobby system isn't one that public snetiment will accept and we are handing the V&V extremists a very real branch to beat us with.

farawaygrass · 17-10-2019 7:38pm

Base price wrote: »

Male chicks (a byproduct of the egg industry) are culled after hatching by the hundreds of thousands every day. The don't carry enough meat genetics and therefore they are not viable to feed on. Some dairy bull calves unfortunately fall into the same category. I should know as I've reared them from calves, feed them on to finish both as bulls and bullocks and it's not viable and that was before the beef prices collapsed.

What do people suggest should be done with the lesser quality dairy bull calf?
Edit - And don't say that beef prices need to rise to over €4/kg cause that ain't going to happen in the immediate future unless there is some sort of beef crises in the EU due to disease etc.

Honest question here-if you have a jersey cow producing a very poor quality beef calf but is the most profitable type of milker or say a British friesian which would produce a very good, profitable cross for beef but not such a good milker, which is more profitable cow at the end of the day for the dairy farmer? Tbh if there was a very good supply of quality calves from the dairy sector I don’t have any Pity for suckler cow numbers reducing nationally and farmers rearing these calves instead. And btw im a (disgruntled) suckler and sheep farmer before anyone shoot me down

Base price · 17-10-2019 7:49pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Male chicks don’t carry the same gravity as a male calf BP.
Apples and oranges.

I rear a few chickens in intensive houses. The reality of my system is that there’s no future for such systems...consumers have spoken with their wallets. Animal welfare is vital now.
My project for 2020 is to change to an outdoor setup.
Get with it or get out...

Ah, now you are being species specific - "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" :rolleyes:

An article about free range broiler production in Cavan or Monaghan popped up on my news feed this morning. I didn't have an opportunity to read it as a neighbour arrived looking for the loan of two cow trailer and the laptop had turned off by the time I got back to the house. Unfortunately I cannot find the article now but I think the name of the company was Darina or something similar.

Base price · 17-10-2019 8:07pm

_Brian wrote: »

I've seen the videos of the male chicks going into the shredders and its frankly disgusting to see and if it were outlawed in the morning (and i think it should) the industry would find a solution because it had to.

You're not going to hear me saying that beef prices should magically move above €4/kg, I've said previously that because of the massive overproduction in beef in Ireland there is no need to raise prices and indeed I see prices slipping again after 1st Nov. When you overproduce anything it looses its value.

There is an industry wide disconnect between production and market, a cohort have fallen for the Teagasc spin that to turn profitability in Beef you need big new sheds, increased numbers and of course increased efficiencies, the last bit is their get out so iof your not making money you must be inefficient.... no mention that they have pushed numbers beyond market requirments and so the price has collapsed.

I honestly don't know the solution for non viable calves is, but the bobby system isn't one that public snetiment will accept and we are handing the V&V extremists a very real branch to beat us with.

I agree 100% but we are where we are and we've been here for the last 18 to 20 years unknown'st to the majority of readers. The difference now is that the numbers of poor quality dairy bull calves have grown with the expanding dairy herd.

I don't know what the solution is either and sexed semen doesn't seem to be the answer.

Muckit · 17-10-2019 8:12pm

There's no easy answer that's for sure. And perhaps the real solution is hard to swallow.

That's why l thought its be a good topic for discussion in the first place.

wrangler · 17-10-2019 8:22pm

Muckit wrote: »

There's no easy answer that's for sure. And perhaps the real solution is hard to swallow.

That's why l thought its be a good topic for discussion in the first place.

IFJ have the figures up for their dairy beef project, as expected they lost their shirt again, calves have to be less than €100 and beef nearer to €4./kg.
Heifers were only housed for two months last winter and on grass after that......if they can't make money with a good winter like that they have no hope this year.

Base price · 17-10-2019 9:05pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

Honest question here-if you have a jersey cow producing a very poor quality beef calf but is the most profitable type of milker or say a British friesian which would produce a very good, profitable cross for beef but not such a good milker, which is more profitable cow at the end of the day for the dairy farmer? Tbh if there was a very good supply of quality calves from the dairy sector I don’t have any Pity for suckler cow numbers reducing nationally and farmers rearing these calves instead. And btw im a (disgruntled) suckler and sheep farmer before anyone shoot me down

I'm not a dairy farmer so I can't comment on the financials but I'm an ex suckler farmer (including pbr's) who quit them 12 years ago because of the costs.

As I've previously stated the dairy bull calf situation is relatively new.

In Ireland we used to milk SH type cows, progressed to pure FR (British) moved onto Holstein and some went onto JE/Kiwi. That is the way economic progression works whether we like it or not.

If I had my way all dairy breeds would be pure FR, Ayr and beef breeds would be HE, AA, SH including our native breeds from 1970's/80's genetics

I'm sure there is someone reading this who's family farm used to produce free range eggs/poultry & pigs for bacon/pork for their local community and their farm business was wiped out.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 17-10-2019 9:14pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

Honest question here-if you have a jersey cow producing a very poor quality beef calf but is the most profitable type of milker or say a British friesian which would produce a very good, profitable cross for beef but not such a good milker, which is more profitable cow at the end of the day for the dairy farmer? Tbh if there was a very good supply of quality calves from the dairy sector I don’t have any Pity for suckler cow numbers reducing nationally and farmers rearing these calves instead. And btw im a (disgruntled) suckler and sheep farmer before anyone shoot me down

I'm curious as to where lads think the suckler finished animal ends up? Too big for consumer plates and packaging, the only outlet is industrial and catering products, isn't it?

And the only beef getting a premium is AAx and HEx from those inferior dairy animals.

So when the JEx gets killed, he's going into the same end product as the apparently superior suckler animal.

This whole superior/inferior prejudice needs a bit of examining, folks.

whelan2 · 17-10-2019 9:19pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm curious as to where lads think the suckler finished animal ends up? Too big for consumer plates and packaging, the only outlet is industrial and catering products, isn't it?

And the only beef getting a premium is AAx and HEx from those inferior dairy animals.

So when the JEx gets killed, he's going into the same end product as the apparently superior suckler animal.

This whole superior/inferior prejudice needs a bit of examining, folks.

It all ends up as mincemeat?

alps · 17-10-2019 9:20pm

Base price wrote: »

What do people suggest should be done with the lesser quality dairy bull calf?

Ban the bastards.....

Rats...

Vermin....

Hard Knocks · 17-10-2019 9:25pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm curious as to where lads think the suckler finished animal ends up? Too big for consumer plates and packaging, the only outlet is industrial and catering products, isn't it?

And the only beef getting a premium is AAx and HEx from those inferior dairy animals.

So when the JEx gets killed, he's going into the same end product as the apparently superior suckler animal.

This whole superior/inferior prejudice needs a bit of examining, folks.

What happens to all the weanlings that are being exported to other countries?
That all hardly end as mince?

Base price · 17-10-2019 9:28pm

Muckit wrote: »

There's no easy answer that's for sure. And perhaps the real solution is hard to swallow.

That's why l thought its be a good topic for discussion in the first place.

I think that the majority of dairy farmers with FR/HO cows who experimented using JE/Kiwi sires over the last 2 or 3 years realise that they are better off staying using FR/HO bulls for their replacements cause the resultant JE/FRx/Kiwi bull calf has little or no value and will probably cost them collection fees in the future.

TBH I reckon that the dairy bull calf situation will right itself within 2 years. Dairy farmers with cross bred herds will continue as before but there isn't many of them.

mycro2013 · 17-10-2019 9:30pm

wrangler wrote: »

IFJ have the figures up for their dairy beef project, as expected they lost their shirt again, calves have to be less than €100 and beef nearer to €4./kg.
Heifers were only housed for two months last winter and on grass after that......if they can't make money with a good winter like that they have no hope this year.

The lads selling the calves to the journal must have being laughing at the prices they received. As much as the journal tries farm trials aren't it's thing.

What they should be focusing on is farm innovations and success stories. Alternative practices and enterprises leave the trials to teagasc and co-ops.

The bull calf situation is a train coming the tracks and is a pr disaster waiting to happen.

Muckit · 17-10-2019 9:36pm

But isn't that the scary thing. They're the main farming publication. They're supposed to have the finger on the pulse. Yet they've got it wrong time and time again.

mycro2013 · 17-10-2019 9:44pm

The people running the trials aren't using their own money. Regardless of how successful or unsuccessful the trial those involved in the trial still get paid. "It is very easy to spend some else's money" as illustrated by the prices paid.

When did you see a piece in the journal regarding poultry enterprises or cull cows.

whelan2 · 17-10-2019 9:47pm

Muckit wrote: »

But isn't that the scary thing. They're the main farming publication. They're supposed to have the finger on the pulse. Yet they've got it wrong time and time again.

No mention in it either of the total cock up on bps for louth farmers.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 17-10-2019 9:47pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

What happens to all the weanlings that are being exported to other countries?
That all hardly end as mince?

They end up as roasts, stews and mince. The same as if they stayed here. The same place the JEx ends up just a bit dearer.

mycro2013 · 17-10-2019 9:53pm

This is an issue for the dairy industry as a whole. From the top to the bottom. The co-ops cant be washing their hands of it and then having the marketing department portray the image of sustainable dairy.

screamer · 17-10-2019 10:07pm

Calves were given away this year, know of one guy and he was giving calves away so long as you bought the maverick or whatever he was selling to feed them.

I’m not too familiar with farming, why so many dairy calves being born? I don’t understand that at all, as in can someone explain why they are bred to that level?

Base price · 17-10-2019 10:08pm

alps wrote: »

Ban the bastards.....

Rats...

Vermin....

You sound like a neighbour and only for the fact that I know he hasn't a clue about using laptop and the internet you could be him

A true story - In Spring 2008 OH was offered twenty odd FRx suck bull calves out of HO/FR cows from a dairy farmer friend who was changing his system. We brought them home, reared them and let them out into the road field early that Summer. The neighbour was driving by heading into the local town that morning and saw the calves in the field. Later on that day I went into the local shop and was informed that we had vermin calves on the farm.

wrangler · 17-10-2019 10:19pm

mycro2013 wrote: »

The lads selling the calves to the journal must have being laughing at the prices they received. As much as the journal tries farm trials aren't it's thing.

What they should be focusing on is farm innovations and success stories. Alternative practices and enterprises leave the trials to teagasc and co-ops.

The bull calf situation is a train coming the tracks and is a pr disaster waiting to happen.

I went back to February 2018 on boards here, Keepgrowing sold hd heifers for €250 so it must have been the price at the time.
It's IFJs money so at the end of the day they're entitled to spend it how they like. no law against doing their own trials
They're always pumping money into farming projects and events
Plenty of farmers made a balls of the last two years too

wrangler · 17-10-2019 10:30pm

screamer wrote: »

Calves were given away this year, know of one guy and he was giving calves away so long as you bought the maverick or whatever he was selling to feed them.

I’m not too familiar with farming, why so many dairy calves being born? I don’t understand that at all, as in can someone explain why they are bred to that level?

Yea, I was talking to a farmer on sunday that bought 21 calves and when he came to collect them he was told to take 40.
He slaughters hundreds of cattle and was telling me he's only allowed dribble them in to the factory

Panch18 · 17-10-2019 11:26pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm curious as to where lads think the suckler finished animal ends up? Too big for consumer plates and packaging, the only outlet is industrial and catering products, isn't it?

And the only beef getting a premium is AAx and HEx from those inferior dairy animals.

So when the JEx gets killed, he's going into the same end product as the apparently superior suckler animal.

This whole superior/inferior prejudice needs a bit of examining, folks.

Good man Buford, you have summed it up beautifully, as usual

Fellas needs to wake up and stop dreaming

Base price · 17-10-2019 11:26pm

wrangler wrote: »

Yea, I was talking to a farmer on sunday that bought 21 calves and when he came to collect them he was told to take 40.
He slaughters hundreds of cattle and was telling me he's only allowed dribble them in to the factory

Bollocks - if he slaughters hundreds of cattle then he should have no problem getting them into the local
factory.

FarmerDougal · 18-10-2019 12:16am

Base price wrote: »

Bollocks - if he slaughters hundreds of cattle then he should have no problem getting them into his local factory.

It's not 'no problem' getting a load away since protests.

Doesn't seem to matter how many u killing, everyone waiting for a turn

Base price · 18-10-2019 12:54am

Muckit wrote: »

There's no easy answer that's for sure. And perhaps the real solution is hard to swallow.

That's why l thought its be a good topic for discussion in the first place.

Over the past 20 years JE/JEx/FRx dairy bull calves have been sent to DAFM factories for humane slaughter whilst some carcasses have been sent to supply the Veterinary College and other institutions.

AFAIK cull calves have to go through a DAFM approved facility.

Sheep breeder · 18-10-2019 7:20am

mycro2013 wrote: »

This is an issue for the dairy industry as a whole. From the top to the bottom. The co-ops cant be washing their hands of it and then having the marketing department portray the image of sustainable dairy.

That is it in a nutshell, if you choose to produce a poor calf result poor money or sort by rearing yourself, the cull cow is the same. Met a neighbour yesterday who was complaining about selling a JEx cow in the mart 485kg and got 180 euros and reckons it was a wrong price and he was robbed. Asked what was the story about her, out of the parlour and scanned empty and going dry in milk.
Anybody things this wasn’t her value is away with the fairies and the same about a poor calf.

alps · 18-10-2019 7:36am

Looks like the ICMSA lads were partying it up at the latest think in...

The full details of this new scheme are as follows:
The scheme will be open to all livestock farmers, but agents and feedlots would be excluded;
Farmers that apply to the scheme must rear calves from the dairy herd;
Farmers can only stock their farm at the stocking rate they had in 2019, so as to avoid an increase in beef production;
Male and female calves with a beef sire and dairy dam are eligible for the scheme. However, the sire must be selected from the ICBF Dairy Beef Index (DBI) or if a stock bull is used, the stock bull must have four or five stars on the terminal index;
The calves must be less than six weeks-of-age at time of purchase;
An initial payment of €75 can be drawn down by the farmer once the animal is weighed between six and ten months;
The second payment of €75 is drawn down after the animal is slaughtered;
Steers must be slaughtered within 30 months and heifers must be slaughtered within 24 months;
Suckler farmers that wish to enter the scheme in 2020 should be allowed exit the Beef Data Genomics Programme (BDGP) without any ‘clawback’ of monies;
Farmers can only avail of the scheme on a maximum of 100 calves per year

Say my name · 18-10-2019 7:43am

Base price wrote: »

Ah, now you are being species specific - "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" :rolleyes:

An article about free range broiler production in Cavan or Monaghan popped up on my news feed this morning. I didn't have an opportunity to read it as a neighbour arrived looking for the loan of two cow trailer and the laptop had turned off by the time I got back to the house. Unfortunately I cannot find the article now but I think the name of the company was Darina or something similar.

Danpo? ScandiStandard bought Carton brothers Manor Farm poultry operations in 2017 for €94 million, after the two brothers families had no interest in continuing on the business.
Danpo is one of the companies that ScandiStandard owns.

(This is not in relation to your post but the general discussion in which you were replying to).

I'm not sure about inovation of welfare being consumer led. It's down to the whims of those in industry.
If there's a €2 chicken on the shelf beside an €18 organic free range chicken. Especially in the British isles you'll know which one is bought first in a heartbeat.
Any inovation is just the continuing eroding of revenue always borne solely by the primary producer.

K.G. · 18-10-2019 9:20am

There's a good few yards around here that you wouldn't want to mention the blockades around here if you plan to walk out of the yard again.fellas have been put through some awful hardship and still in the thick of it due to bpm and nothing to show for it

yewtree · 18-10-2019 10:10am

alps wrote: »

Looks like the ICMSA lads were partying it up at the latest think in...

The full details of this new scheme are as follows:
The scheme will be open to all livestock farmers, but agents and feedlots would be excluded;
Farmers that apply to the scheme must rear calves from the dairy herd;
Farmers can only stock their farm at the stocking rate they had in 2019, so as to avoid an increase in beef production;
Male and female calves with a beef sire and dairy dam are eligible for the scheme. However, the sire must be selected from the ICBF Dairy Beef Index (DBI) or if a stock bull is used, the stock bull must have four or five stars on the terminal index;
The calves must be less than six weeks-of-age at time of purchase;
An initial payment of €75 can be drawn down by the farmer once the animal is weighed between six and ten months;
The second payment of €75 is drawn down after the animal is slaughtered;
Steers must be slaughtered within 30 months and heifers must be slaughtered within 24 months;
Suckler farmers that wish to enter the scheme in 2020 should be allowed exit the Beef Data Genomics Programme (BDGP) without any ‘clawback’ of monies;
Farmers can only avail of the scheme on a maximum of 100 calves per year

Sounds like a good scheme to me. Makes far more sense than subsidising suckler cows.
The main reason lads want to keep suckler cows is they look nice. The creation of the suckler herd is largely down to the introduction of milk quotas. Its has nothing to do with economics and nothing to do with the quality of beef. Beef from a jex steer is better in terms of eating quality than that from a chx steer.

patsy_mccabe · 18-10-2019 10:19am

Ah lads c'mon. Thre is no comparison to the % of choice cuts on a cont type animal compared to a JEX type..... and that's not to even mention feed efficiency.

Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

Comments