Suicide

Realt Dearg Sec · 23-09-2019 5:13am

A colleague of mine killed herself last week, on Sunday morning. We're a small University department and the people in it aren't just coworkers, they're friends and family for all of us, as a lot of us are loving here a long way from our homes, and we are one another's closest friends here. She was only 31, had a great job, doing what she loved, seemed to have everything. We were hired at the same time. There wasn't any hint of anything seriously wrong, she'd broken up with a long distance boyfriend but was very much focused on the future, had adopted a dog, was implementing plans within the department where she was director of writing instruction. The students loved her, we all did.

She visited another colleagues house for dinner Saturday, had a great time by all accounts. Then went up to the top of the building we work in early on Sunday morning, it's thirteen stories high and can be seen from all over the town. She jumped off and was killed immediately.

I read an account once off a guy who survived jumping off a bridge. He was asked what he thought while falling. His response was that as he feel he realised that every single thing he had been worried about, all of it, was totally solvable. Everything except this.

It's a remark that's haunted me all week. We work, and teach, in the building every day, had to go in and talk to the students about it on Tuesday. It was a surreal experience to have that talk and then try to get back to work (but get back to it we did). I walk by where she landed on the way into work each morning.

I wonder if she had that same thought process, that regret, that realisation. Maybe she didn't though. We can't know the darkness that was really in her soul, and understand how it existed alongside the light she brought into everyone else's lives.

We had a candle light vigil during the week, where students and faculty and staff takes for literally hours about their experiences of her. That wasn't really my scene so I didn't talk at it, but it was so very human and touching to witness all the same. I wonder if she'd known that level of feeling for her existed, would it have made a difference? As a department we're in discussions about how to memorialize and commemorate her. There's talk of a bench and a plaque, but we all agreed it can't be facing our building. We're thinking of having a circle of benches somewhere, as more of a collaborative learning space, which was kind of her thing, and it would be less solitary, more about community.

Suicide is some ****ing load of ****. Be good to each other.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 23-09-2019 11:46am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

This is something that scares the shit out of me. I've never lost anyone to suicide, but someone very close to me tried to take his own life a few years ago. I was the one who - by pure chance - interrupted him (I still don't know what made me seek him out, but something did), bandaged him up as well as I could and got him to hospital. There was no need to talk him off any metaphorical ledge - I think within a split second of cutting himself, the realisation of the sheer enormity of what he had done was enough, hopefully, to ensure that he never attempts it again.

He was so compliant as I did what I could to stem the bleeding. No resistance at all until I reached for a phone to call an ambulance and he went into full-blown panic, begging me not to. He didn't want the fuss, the drama, the spectacle of blue flashing lights. I think he wanted to pretend it hadn't happened, rewind the clock ten minutes and go back to normal. Anyway, he needed medical attention, so I dragged him out to the car and brought him to the nearest emergency department as quickly as I could. The whole way in, all he could say was "sorry", over and over again. Oh, and an ironic "slow down, you'll get us killed" through a mixture of tears and inappropriate laughter, which infuriated me at the time. On reflection, an ambulance might have been less dramatic than flying through every red light on the Stillorgan Rd and skipping a queue of traffic on the wrong side of Nutley Lane.

The doctor said he could have died that night - had the wound been a few millimetres to the left or right. It could so easily have been a very different and tragic story, with so much mystery and so many unanswered questions. It wasn't a 'cry for help'. It wasn't 'selfish'. It wasn't 'anything', just a moment of wanting everything to stop.

Yes, it’s interesting you say that. A few of the Golden Gate survivors said they regretted their decision as soon as they stepped off. They realised that nothing was unfixable.

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-09-2019 11:49am

Just got a nessage this morning that a very good friend of mine had died, lifelong sufferer of depression but was always there for everyone. Funeral wednesday and i won't be able to be there for him one last time, heads mashed.

skerry · 23-09-2019 2:31pm

Not 10 minutes after opening this thread yesterday I received a message telling me that a friend from years back had took his life over the weekend. Last time I met the same lad was a couple of years ago at the funeral of a best friend from my youth from the same group who had done the same thing. Most of the funerals of people around my age I've grown up with have been as a result of suicide. You really never know what some people are battling on the inside.

greenspurs · 23-09-2019 2:52pm

Always been a bugbear of mine - "Committed" suicide …. Its not illegal anymore.

I prefer "took their own life"...

We had a co worker take their own life. Was working with him on the Saturday, spoke to him..
he went home, went out with his mates, and hung himself that night. 34years old

He was found the next morning by his poor dad...……………….

All in work on Monday, carry on there lads.....

We are all sooo easily replacable at work, but not so easy for family.....

PostWoke · 23-09-2019 2:59pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Yes and no.

You're quite right, the majority who do it aren't in what you could call a "normal" frame of mind. But everybody knows the mess it leaves behind, it is ultimately a selfish act - whether you could blame them for doing it I don't know, I suppose each case is different, but blame or not it's usually selfish.

This is the kind of nonsense people need to be educated on so as not resort to 'yes... and no' squirming.

Instead of worrying about the mess after maybe you should've worried about the person's mess before.

Sunny Disposition · 23-09-2019 3:08pm

Suicide is terrible, ruins many more lives than just the victims'. Something in modern society has flipped, it is so common now.
One thing I'd warn is that drink can very often be a factor, anyone who has a tendency to get a bit depressed should watch that.

Mad_maxx · 23-09-2019 3:27pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Suicide is not a selfish act, its the act of someone in the throes of absolute despair, an internal hell they cannot even describe themselves never mind put words to so someone can help them. They just cannot tolerate the pain that envelopes them and consumes their world. I think the last 20 years has seen a sea change in how we live- technology has taken the equivalent of a thousand year jump in terms of evolution and human interaction hasn't caught up with it and despite being more connected than ever, loneliness is rife and social media, with its false foundation of a "perfect life" just fuels comparisons.

Nobody is talking to each other anymore, money is our God and human decency is an option not an essential. I do say to people who call suicide selfish, think how you would respond if it were your son, your wife, your father etc who came to you and said they were feeling so bad they wanted to take their own life. Put yourself in someone elses shoes and try to show a bit of compassion.

Unlike many people, I'm blessed never to have been directly bereaved by suicide, but one of my closest friends lost his brother to suicide. There was no known history of depression; he closed his college textbook one night, went out to the garage after kissing his mum goodnight, and hanged himself. It fcuked up their lives for years and for a lot of that time, my friend would say "_____ was a selfish cnut". Sometimes I'd nod, and mean it.

That's grief though. People get irrationally angry with the dead, it's part of coping. What bothers me so much about McGarry's article is that it doesn't appear to be based on any personal grief, which might make it understandable. And what genuinely angers me is that stupid use of the word "thoughtless". How is suicide ever thoughtless? God I'm bored, shall I top myself? Wordscutter. What an idiot.

Michael Harding was so sensitive in how he handled it. Quite frankly, perhaps Patsy should stick to covering papal conclaves and stay away from the serious stuff.

Haven't read the piece but patsy mcgarry is a wanker so it's like something he'd write

Mad_maxx · 23-09-2019 3:29pm

It's usually nice people who take their own lives, self absorbed assh0les who don't give a fcuk can get through anything

Tchaikovsky · 23-09-2019 3:48pm

Yes it's the sensitive ones that are inclined to take their own life, leaving behind a less sensitive world

triggermortis · 23-09-2019 4:00pm

I was at a funeral of an ex-colleague last Friday who killed himself. Lovely guy with 3 young kids.
He was out golfing and drinking with mates the day before. Then got up for work, stopped on the way and ended it all.
The thing that really got me was there were 3-400 people there and nobody had a clue he was going to do it.

PostWoke · 23-09-2019 5:55pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's usually nice people who take their own lives, self absorbed assh0les who don't give a fcuk can get through anything

The way of the world, you won't find anyone arguing that here I would say.

23-09-2019 6:15pm

It's worth remarking that overall, suicide rates have fallen nearly 40% since 2001. Health expenditure on mental health services hasn't changed at anywhere near that rate (its been 6% of overall health budget for years) so something else is behind the reduction.

I think it's the diminishing stigma of mental health problems. People are more confident in opening up to colleagues and friends about their problems. There is much greater media focus on mental health problems, and more community-driven activism (eg Darkness into Light), and all of this takes the discussion into family kitchens and workplaces and, of course, online discussion.

So the next time some melt whinges about all of this talk about mental health in recent years, they should probably consider that it does seem to be having the intended effect.

PostWoke · 23-09-2019 8:45pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's worth remarking that overall, suicide rates have fallen nearly 40% since 2001. Health expenditure on mental health services hasn't changed at anywhere near that rate (its been 6% of overall health budget for years) so something else is behind the reduction.

I think it's the diminishing stigma of mental health problems. People are more confident in opening up to colleagues and friends about their problems. There is much greater media focus on mental health problems, and more community-driven activism (eg Darkness into Light), and all of this takes the discussion into family kitchens and workplaces and, of course, online discussion.

So the next time some melt whinges about all of this talk about mental health in recent years, they should probably consider that it does seem to be having the intended effect.

Except that you are conjuring up this equivalence, and while suicide rates may be down, 4 out of 5 of them in this country are men, which is a puzzle in of itself that needs solving.

23-09-2019 9:41pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Except that you are conjuring up this equivalence, and while suicide rates may be down, 4 out of 5 of them in this country are men, which is a puzzle in of itself that needs solving.

I don't know what the rate of change in the male suicide statistics are per 100k, so I don't know what you're referring to exactly.

We know that the rate of change per year has fallen faster than any increase in public investment. This indicates that some kind of broader social change is influencing the incidence of suicide, that's quite obvious, and we should learn from it.

I'm supposing that there's a relationship with diminishing levels of stigma surrounding mental health problems, but obviously we should be open to all possibilities.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 23-09-2019 10:35pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's worth remarking that overall, suicide rates have fallen nearly 40% since 2001. Health expenditure on mental health services hasn't changed at anywhere near that rate (its been 6% of overall health budget for years) so something else is behind the reduction.

I think it's the diminishing stigma of mental health problems. People are more confident in opening up to colleagues and friends about their problems. There is much greater media focus on mental health problems, and more community-driven activism (eg Darkness into Light), and all of this takes the discussion into family kitchens and workplaces and, of course, online discussion.

So the next time some melt whinges about all of this talk about mental health in recent years, they should probably consider that it does seem to be having the intended effect.

I am all for people confiding in trusted loved ones or mental health professionals if they feel like they are overwhelmed. That is good. That is very, very good.

What I throw the side-eye at is ill-qualified wannabe influencers and celebrities glomming onto the mental health thing in order to have a USP. I suffered from quite severe clinical depression in the past. I feel in no way qualified to counsel others who have it. In fact, I think it could be dangerous for a layperson to attempt to do so. They could do more harm than good.

PostWoke wrote: »

Except that you are conjuring up this equivalence, and while suicide rates may be down, 4 out of 5 of them in this country are men, which is a puzzle in of itself that needs solving.

It’s a trend repeated the world over. Ireland is not unique in the majority of suicides being men. Some countries buck the trend but most are the same as Ireland.

dd973 · 23-09-2019 10:50pm

Going to the funeral service of a long-standing friend and ex-workmate tomorrow, apparently what got to him was the side effects of reducing anti-depressant dosage, bloody shocked when it happened, in fact, it'll feel like being at somebody's else's funeral as I cannot imagine the chap being dead.

23-09-2019 11:15pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I am all for people confiding in trusted loved ones or mental health professionals if they feel like they are overwhelmed. That is good. That is very, very good.

What I throw the side-eye at is ill-qualified wannabe influencers and celebrities glomming onto the mental health thing in order to have a USP. I suffered from quite severe clinical depression in the past. I feel in no way qualified to counsel others who have it. In fact, I think it could be dangerous for a layperson to attempt to do so. They could do more harm than good.

Generally, I share your skepticism. I suspect that some people are mistaking their very ordinary anxieties for something as acute and as debilitating as anxiety, as clinically defined.

But we don't have proof of that. And even if a small number of people are (irresponsibly) self diagnosing in that way, there is no reason to believe that it's having any impact.

More people than ever before are coming forward with their experiences of mental health difficulties, and fewer people are taking their own lives. I am not an expert, but I suspect there is some correlation.

If anyone has a more logical explanation, I'm sure everyone would be all ears!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 24-09-2019 6:04pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Generally, I share your skepticism. I suspect that some people are mistaking their very ordinary anxieties for something as acute and as debilitating as anxiety, as clinically defined.

But we don't have proof of that. And even if a small number of people are (irresponsibly) self diagnosing in that way, there is no reason to believe that it's having any impact.

More people than ever before are coming forward with their experiences of mental health difficulties, and fewer people are taking their own lives. I am not an expert, but I suspect there is some correlation.

If anyone has a more logical explanation, I'm sure everyone would be all ears!

The suicide rates have been falling since 2001. High profile people and social media wannabe influencers looking for a unique angle being vocal about mental health is a much more recent phenomenon. Less than a decade old. Even before we get to whether correlation implies causation, the two things don’t even correlate.

I’m not just talking about self-diagnosing either, I’m talking about giving advice to others despite not being qualified.

24-09-2019 6:23pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

The suicide rates have been falling since 2001. High profile people and social media wannabe influencers looking for a unique angle being vocal about mental health is a much more recent phenomenon. Less than a decade old. Even before we get to whether correlation implies causation, the two things don’t even correlate.

I’m not just talking about self-diagnosing either, I’m talking about giving advice to others despite not being qualified.

it's wider than celebrities talking about their mental health problems, though. That's a tiny aspect of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things that have promoted discussion and diminished stigma in general, such as school talks, greater community activism and visibility, the media's role in general - because that's where most people have observed a shift in attitudes.

I can't think of anything else that has changed very much since 2001 which would explain such a significant reduction in suicide rates, but am open to correction.

It certainly can't be health funding for mental health services but I suppose it's possible that there is significantly more private investment.

24-09-2019 6:28pm

Just remembered another obvious one when it comes to communication and sharing information that happened around 2000 - vastly enhanced access to the Internet and other communications, allowing people to communicate in different ways.

I'm not saying "that's the reason", it's just one of the other factors to consider as possibly influencing the change.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 24-09-2019 6:29pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it's wider than celebrities talking about their mental health problems, though. That's a tiny aspect of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things that have promoted discussion and diminished stigma in general, such as school talks, greater community activism and visibility, the media's role in general - because that's where most people have observed a shift in attitudes.

I can't think of anything else that has changed very much since 2001 which would explain such a significant reduction in suicide rates, but am open to correction.

It certainly can't be health funding for mental health services but I suppose it's possible that there is significantly more private investment.

Well, that’s what I was talking about. But even Darkness Into Light has only become very popular in the last five years.

PostWoke · 24-09-2019 6:37pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I am all for people confiding in trusted loved ones or mental health professionals if they feel like they are overwhelmed. That is good. That is very, very good.

What I throw the side-eye at is ill-qualified wannabe influencers and celebrities glomming onto the mental health thing in order to have a USP. I suffered from quite severe clinical depression in the past. I feel in no way qualified to counsel others who have it. In fact, I think it could be dangerous for a layperson to attempt to do so. They could do more harm than good.

It’s a trend repeated the world over. Ireland is not unique in the majority of suicides being men. Some countries buck the trend but most are the same as Ireland.

Suicide does affect more men than women worldwide, but I believe the 4/5 statistic is worse than in most countries. It has only recently becoming this bad, in any case, so I'm not sure what your point is, and it certainly doesn't offer any possible solutions...

Agreed with the celebs filming bits for suicide awareness though. They can **** off.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 24-09-2019 7:02pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Suicide does affect more men than women worldwide, but I believe the 4/5 statistic is worse than in most countries. It has only recently becoming this bad, in any case, so I'm not sure what your point is, and it certainly doesn't offer any possible solutions...

Agreed with the celebs filming bits for suicide awareness though. They can **** off.

I don’t think so. As far as I know, male suicide has always greatly outnumbered female suicide. That’s something I’ve personally known for a long time. What’s your point?

PostWoke · 24-09-2019 8:22pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I don’t think so. As far as I know, male suicide has always greatly outnumbered female suicide. That’s something I’ve personally known for a long time. What’s your point?

It was a news story last year. It's always been badly skewed, but 4/5 is new depths.

You quoted me, not the other away round, so dunno why you're deflecting my question with another question.

24-09-2019 10:28pm

This story was covered on RTÉ's 9pm news tonight:
Oireachtas committee hears of effect of suicide on family

In the news, though, it said that the suicide rate in the Traveller community is seven times higher than in the settled community. This RTÉ report from last May says it was six times higher.

And this story, from October 2017: ‘It’s no longer a shock’: the high suicide rate among Travellers: Bridgie Casey has lost 12 members of her extended family to suicide in five years

PostWoke · 24-09-2019 10:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This story was covered on RTÉ's 9pm news tonight:
Oireachtas committee hears of effect of suicide on family

In the news, though, it said that the suicide rate in the Traveller community is seven times higher than in the settled community. This RTÉ report from last May says it was six times higher.

And this story, from October 2017: ‘It’s no longer a shock’: the high suicide rate among Travellers: Bridgie Casey has lost 12 members of her extended family to suicide in five years

If we had causes that would be helpful data. Are these grand romantic gestures related to exes going off with someone else etc? Are there firearms involved? Or is it unhappiness with how their life has turned out in terms of education and opportunities?

Watch the fakewokes spin this into being because people are mean in mentioning traveller crime rates and general anti-social behaviour.

24-09-2019 10:44pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Watch the fakewokes spin this into being because people are mean in mentioning traveller crime rates and general anti-social behaviour.

You're the first person in the thread to go down this ridiculous line of dismissing any suicide as a "romantic gesture" or to pursue any kind of speculation about criminality, so maybe have a look at yourself before you try to pre-emptively have a go at other users. Dope.

PostWoke · 24-09-2019 10:49pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

before you try to pre-emptively have a go at other users. Dope.

Who said anything about other users of this board? I was thinking about our wonderful Irish media and politicians tbh. Also, you followed up with an ouroboros of irony there with that silly personal attack, didn't you?

You're the same guy who completely misconstrued my point in the Margaret Cash thread, and then silently refused to admit it, right?

Who's the dope?

24-09-2019 10:54pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Who said anything about other users of this board? I was thinking about our wonderful Irish media and politicians tbh. Also, you followed up with an ouroboros of irony there with that silly personal attack, didn't you?

You're the same guy who completely misconstrued my point in the Margaret Cash thread, and then silently refused to admit it, right?

Who's the dope?

Firstly I don't tend to remember many usernames on boards, as far as I know we've never interacted.

Secondly, when you said "Watch the fakewokes spin this into being because people are mean in mentioning traveller crime rates" are you suggesting that it's the media, then, who will pounce on your comments? I don't think they care, mate. This thread is about suicide, not your petty little gripes with specific communities.

Suicide

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