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Suicide

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  • 26-11-2018 12:45pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    Sadly, I now need my second hand of fingers to count how many people I know who have died from suicide. As the list has grown, the connection has become closer. I haven’t lost a family member but as good as.

    I’m not a professional when it comes to giving advice on mental health. I’m just a Mum, a wife, an aunty, your mates Mum. Those houses you hung around in when you were growing up contained people who love you. Even if you’ve now grown up and have families of your own.

    If you feel overwhelmed by life, please, PLEASE reach out to someone. Those mates that you mess around with, they are more than that. They care about you. That teacher who you think is so strict in class, confide in them. They may well be the person that understands how you are feeling more than you ever realised.

    To any parent or grandparent reading this - remind your kids (whatever age they are) that no problem is so big that they can’t tell you about it. Remember their well-being is much more important than any stigma you believe it will cause the family. If the last line reminds you of people you know, remind them of what’s important in life - LIFE ITSELF.

    Don’t feel alone x


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    #2
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    One thing that really and truly annoys the sh1t out of me, is when you hear people talking about people who committed suicide, and describe it as being a very selfish act.

    Bollocks.

    When someone is in such a dark and lonely place, and in so much turmoil that they feel their only way of stopping the pain and hurt is the finality of death, well then they're clearly not in the rightframe of mind that anyone might consider them as 'selfish'.

    Wish I could of had one or two conversations with some friends that did it.

    One in particular left this world with no prior warning signs, everything was grand as far as we all knew, and he left no note either, I still think about him all the time, wondering what on earth went wrong.


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    #3
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Sadly, I now need my second hand of fingers to count how many people I know who have died from suicide. As the list has grown, the connection has become closer. I haven’t lost a family member but as good as.

    I’m not a professional when it comes to giving advice on mental health. I’m just a Mum, a wife, an aunty, your mates Mum. Those houses you hung around in when you were growing up contained people who love you. Even if you’ve now grown up and have families of your own.

    If you feel overwhelmed by life, please, PLEASE reach out to someone. Those mates that you mess around with, they are more than that. They care about you. That teacher who you think is so strict in class, confide in them. They may well be the person that understands how you are feeling more than you ever realised.



    To any parent or grandparent reading this - remind your kids (whatever age they are) that no problem is so big that they can’t tell you about it. Remember their well-being is much more important than any stigma you believe it will cause the family. If the last line reminds you of people you know, remind them of what’s important in life - LIFE ITSELF.

    Don’t feel alone x

    The HSE offers training to help spot the signs and to be of help to those in distress. It's worth doing, just in case you might be able to make a difference some day.

    Details here : https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/mental-health-services/nosp/training/


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    #4
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    .

    Bollocks.

    .

    Yes and no.

    You're quite right, the majority who do it aren't in what you could call a "normal" frame of mind. But everybody knows the mess it leaves behind, it is ultimately a selfish act - whether you could blame them for doing it I don't know, I suppose each case is different, but blame or not it's usually selfish.


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    #5
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    One thing that really and truly annoys the sh1t out of me, is when you hear people talking about people who committed suicide, and describe it as being a very selfish act.

    Bollocks.

    When someone is in such a dark and lonely place, and in so much turmoil that they feel their only way of stopping the pain and hurt is the finality of death, well then they're clearly not in the rightframe of mind that anyone might consider them as 'selfish'.

    Wish I could of had one or two conversations with some friends that did it.

    One in particular left this world with no prior warning signs, everything was grand as far as we all knew, and he left no note either, I still think about him all the time, wondering what on earth went wrong.

    That person may have decided that this life was not for them.

    We naturally tend to try to impose our own thoughts on people, who, for whatever succession of reasons have come to the conclusion that they are not interested in continuing on with what is a daily struggle for them.

    Even if you had known there was something wrong, you cannot now know that you could have changed anything.

    Trying to present someone in that position with a new proposal for how their perception of life is going to "improve" as a result of chatting to someone, be that someone a friend or a professional, over-simplifies the situation.

    By all means let it be known to those we care about that we are there for them if times are hard, but let's not expect to be able to conjure up some fantasy land that we think they'd have bought into if only we had had the opportunity to offer it to them.


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    #6
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    It is so sad, we all know someone that has decided they don't want to be here any longer.

    I do know of two that had suffered cancer, and when it returned with a prognosis of a short life, they decided they did not want to suffer any more pain.


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    #7
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Yes and no.

    You're quite right, the majority who do it aren't in what you could call a "normal" frame of mind. But everybody knows the mess it leaves behind, it is ultimately a selfish act - whether you could blame them for doing it I don't know, I suppose each case is different, but blame or not it's usually selfish.
    People who do this feel it is better for everyone if they were to take their own life. They feel everyone would be better off if they weren't around anymore. That's the extent to which they are NOT in a normal frame of mind.

    Unbelievable really that this has to be pointed out every single time a thread like this comes up.


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    #8
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Yes and no.

    You're quite right, the majority who do it aren't in what you could call a "normal" frame of mind. But everybody knows the mess it leaves behind, it is ultimately a selfish act - whether you could blame them for doing it I don't know, I suppose each case is different, but blame or not it's usually selfish.

    It only leaves a mess behind because it is so taboo.

    If there were proper structures in place for people who do not wish to continue living and their families there might not be such a mess left behind.

    But to do any of that, we'd first have to respect the suicidal person's right to end their own life.

    We won't do that, even though we've done it for women wanting to end unborn children's lives and there is no difference in the two concepts, both end up with the same result, but the suicidal adult is called "selfish".


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    #9
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    I read about a study done of people who were stopped from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. They followed up many years later and I think only something like 5% of the people who were stopped attempted suicide again. The rest had either died of other causes or were still alive. It was a decent sample size too.

    That has really stayed with me. People can really be helped!


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    #10
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Yes and no.

    You're quite right, the majority who do it aren't in what you could call a "normal" frame of mind. But everybody knows the mess it leaves behind, it is ultimately a selfish act - whether you could blame them for doing it I don't know, I suppose each case is different, but blame or not it's usually selfish.

    Completely disagree. What I find to be incredibly selfish is calling those that commit suicide selfish. Most people cannot comprehend what that person is going through. That's partially why there's so much stigma surrounding suicide. Depression is a terrible illness, it can be very very difficult to crawl out of that dark, dark place.


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    #11
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Pelvis wrote: »
    People who do this feel it is better for everyone if they were to take their own life. They feel everyone would be better off if they weren't around anymore. That's the extent to which they are NOT in a normal frame of mind.

    Unbelievable really that this has to be pointed out every single time a thread like this comes up.

    Ultimately they feel is better for themselves. They may feel people would be better off. But it is done to relieve themselves ultimately.

    When it's broken down it is ultimately a selfish act to end their own torture.
    Not selfish in the common definition. And not the type of selfish that should be begrudged either. In their eyes it's a nessecary selfish.


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    #12
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    goat2 wrote: »
    It is so sad, we all know someone that has decided they don't want to be here any longer.

    I do know of two that had suffered cancer, and when it returned with a prognosis of a short life, they decided they did not want to suffer any more pain.

    That does happen and it often happens with shotguns and no dignity. It shouldn't happen that way.

    Who are we to force people to go through with that sort of prognosis?

    Or face another 30 years of a life that they've no interest in?

    Why are we interfering with people's decisions, very often people whose situations we have no knowledge of?


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    #13
    cmac2009
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭cmac2009


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Sadly, I now need my second hand of fingers to count how many people I know who have died from suicide. As the list has grown, the connection has become closer. I haven’t lost a family member but as good as.

    I’m not a professional when it comes to giving advice on mental health. I’m just a Mum, a wife, an aunty, your mates Mum. Those houses you hung around in when you were growing up contained people who love you. Even if you’ve now grown up and have families of your own.

    If you feel overwhelmed by life, please, PLEASE reach out to someone. Those mates that you mess around with, they are more than that. They care about you. That teacher who you think is so strict in class, confide in them. They may well be the person that understands how you are feeling more than you ever realised.

    To any parent or grandparent reading this - remind your kids (whatever age they are) that no problem is so big that they can’t tell you about it. Remember their well-being is much more important than any stigma you believe it will cause the family. If the last line reminds you of people you know, remind them of what’s important in life - LIFE ITSELF.

    Don’t feel alone x

    Nice Post. I also like how you have used the term "died by suicide" as opposed to committed suicide. I know it's difficult as the words commit and suicide are ingrained in the lexicon and widely used. Commit to me has connotations of a crime. Its inaccurate and insensitive imo to use that word and adds to the stigma around suicide.


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    #14
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    cmac2009 wrote: »
    Nice Post. I also like how you have usd the term "died by suicide" as opposed to committed suicide. I know it's difficult as the words commit and suicide are ingrained in the lexicon and widely used. Commit to me has connotations of a crime. Its inaccurate and insensitive imo to use that word and adds to the stigma around suicide.

    I did the HSE training that I have linked to in a previous post. At one of the sessions that same definition of 'commit' came up (legal, crime). I always saw it another way in that the person had considered their situation and had committed to a particular course of action. They had decided on (committed to) a particular solution.

    Either way, I found the training very useful in that you may come across a situation where you think 'someone should really help that person at some point' - in fact that 'someone' may be you and the point at which help is required, may be now.


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    #15
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Pelvis wrote: »
    People who do this feel it is better for everyone if they were to take their own life. They feel everyone would be better off if they weren't around anymore. That's the extent to which they are NOT in a normal frame of mind.

    Unbelievable really that this has to be pointed out every single time a thread like this comes up.

    Don't be so preachy. Some people feel that way. Some.

    I personally have known 4 people really well who killed themselves. I can practically guarantee you that 2 of them at least didn't give a flying fúck about anyone else when they decided to do it.


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    #16
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Yes and no.

    You're quite right, the majority who do it aren't in what you could call a "normal" frame of mind. But everybody knows the mess it leaves behind, it is ultimately a selfish act - whether you could blame them for doing it I don't know, I suppose each case is different, but blame or not it's usually selfish.

    When you are in that dark and desperate place, believing that that is the only way ahead, and yet having to steel yourself to do it as the body knows and rebels against death, then there is no thought for anything but the committing, the ending of self and pain. There is no reasoning, you are utterly and totally alone, in torment that you can see only one way out of

    Please trust me on that. Not a logical issue of blame or reason or consideration. Desperation is blind and deaf to anything but itself. No light, no love.

    There may e folk here who have been pulled back from the brink and know this.


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    #17
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    I read about a study done of people who were stopped from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. They followed up many years later and I think only something like 5% of the people who were stopped attempted suicide again. The rest had either died of other causes or were still alive. It was a decent sample size too.

    That has really stayed with me. People can really be helped!

    If you can actually intervene at that crucial crisis then suicide can be averted. It is never a rational choice


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    #18
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Sadly, I now need my second hand of fingers to count how many people I know who have died from suicide. As the list has grown, the connection has become closer. I haven’t lost a family member but as good as.

    I’m not a professional when it comes to giving advice on mental health. I’m just a Mum, a wife, an aunty, your mates Mum. Those houses you hung around in when you were growing up contained people who love you. Even if you’ve now grown up and have families of your own.

    If you feel overwhelmed by life, please, PLEASE reach out to someone. Those mates that you mess around with, they are more than that. They care about you. That teacher who you think is so strict in class, confide in them. They may well be the person that understands how you are feeling more than you ever realised.

    To any parent or grandparent reading this - remind your kids (whatever age they are) that no problem is so big that they can’t tell you about it. Remember their well-being is much more important than any stigma you believe it will cause the family. If the last line reminds you of people you know, remind them of what’s important in life - LIFE ITSELF.

    Don’t feel alone x

    All the support in the world SM


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    #19
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,799 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    dense wrote: »
    It only leaves a mess behind because it is so taboo.

    If there were proper structures in place for people who do not wish to continue living and their families there might not be such a mess left behind.

    But to do any of that, we'd first have to respect the suicidal person's right to end their own life.

    We won't do that, even though ....".

    Not yet - but i reckon that suicide-by-doc (aka euthanasia) isn't so far away in Ireland. And when it comes in, it will make it a lot harder to convince people in general to not kill themselves .... because hey, youve got to respect their choices.


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    #20
    Cleopatra_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Cleopatra_


    I've tried to kill myself. I can only speak for myself but every single time I tried I was thinking that everyone in my life would be better off without me, that I was a bad person, that I was a burden to everyone. That I wasn't worth their time or their energy and they'd get fed up of me eventually. I envy people who cannot understand suicide because they've never been so low.

    The guilt you feel when you survive is horrific because you see the pain that those who love you are in, but it only makes you wish you'd done what you set out to do because now here they are upset over you, again. You've messed things up, again.


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    #21
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Cleopatra_ wrote: »
    I've tried to kill myself. I can only speak for myself but every single time I tried I was thinking that everyone in my life would be better off without me, that I was a bad person, that I was a burden to everyone. That I wasn't worth their time or their energy and they'd get fed up of me eventually. I envy people who cannot understand suicide because they've never been so low.

    The guilt you feel when you survive is horrific because you see the pain that those who love you are in, but it only makes you wish you'd done what you set out to do because now here they are upset over you, again. You've messed things up, again.

    I've literally never tried - seriously anyway - as I'm Catholic and felt I shouldn't. I want to see my mother again and I believe she is in Heaven.

    But I've felt low enough to do it; slashed half heartedly at my wrist, more out of frustration at not being able to do it properly. And stood by a platform edge thinking, if only I was brave enough.

    Thoughts and prayers for strength for anyone going through this.


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    #22
    vonlars
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭vonlars


    As a teenager, we lost 5 of our friend group to suicide in 3 year period. It was horrendous. Looking back on it now I remember just constantly being in mourning for those three years and beyond it. It wasn't all that long ago but the one thing that stood out to me was there was nowhere to go. It's all well and good running campaigns to 'talk to someone' but the reality is if I had felt as low as those guys had then I wouldn't have had a clue what to do at that age. There was no support offered to anyone after their deaths either.

    People who label suicide as 'selfish' clearly have no idea of how dark a place the human mind can be.


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    #23
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Not yet - but i reckon that suicide-by-doc (aka euthanasia) isn't so far away in Ireland. And when it comes in, it will make it a lot harder to convince people in general to not kill themselves .... because hey, youve got to respect their choices.

    We do. It should be their choice if they decide not to endure.

    Are we really content forcing people to stay alive in order to satisfy our demands? The actions of those of us who might at some point in the future decide upon assisted suicide in other jurisdictions are generally respected.

    We (I'm generalising) do not have an issue with people deciding upon terminating their own lives elsewhere and many of us would like the choice to do it here.

    The reasons for doing so should not really come into it, just like they don't come into it for abortion.
    By that I mean it should not only be available for those diagnosed with terminal conditions. There is little logic in excluding others from accessing such a service if such a service were to exist.

    We do now live in a society where the health service will soon be providing terminations prior to birth so I cannot see any impediment to providing the same option post-birth given all we have heard about respecting other people's choices.

    We also were assured that it does not necessarily follow that termination rates would increase.

    If dignified end of life terminations were available perhaps it might act as a safety blanket for those who feel suicidal in the sense that it would be one less thing for them to worry about, whilst dealing with issues.


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    #24
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,208 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Also, if someone DOES reach out to you, BE THERE.

    Even if you don;t know what to say or do, just be there. Sometimes even goin over to his/her house and watching a movie or playing Ludo is enough to help.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cleopatra_ wrote: »
    I've tried to kill myself. I can only speak for myself but every single time I tried I was thinking that everyone in my life would be better off without me, that I was a bad person, that I was a burden to everyone. That I wasn't worth their time or their energy and they'd get fed up of me eventually. I envy people who cannot understand suicide because they've never been so low.

    The guilt you feel when you survive is horrific because you see the pain that those who love you are in, but it only makes you wish you'd done what you set out to do because now here they are upset over you, again. You've messed things up, again.

    Would guilt about something have been your initial reason for attempting to take your own life?

    Tell me to mind my own if you want


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    #26
    Cleopatra_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Cleopatra_


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Would guilt about something have been your initial reason for attempting to take your own life?

    Tell me to mind my own if you want

    Feeling like a burden was my initial reason. The last time I tried I'd had an argument with my sister that day and she told me she wished I'd been too ill to go on holiday with her because I kept her awake coughing all night (I have Cystic Fibrosis) and that my dad had to drive us around everywhere because I wasn't well and couldn't walk far and it was my fault that he didn't feel like driving her to the airport. She changed her flights so she could go home earlier and get away from me. A lifetime of being told things like this leaves you feeling like no one wants you around and that you're a nuisance.


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't believe a person who takes their own life is selfish but I have spoken with those who told me the one thing that stops them is the devastation it would cause. We can't say with any certainty what goes through the mind of another. I imagine that there are those who don't give much regard to the lives left behind. I also imagine that there are those who have so much pain inside, so much hurt, that suicide seems like the only option for them.

    It's an extremely complex issue with no straight forward solution. Even help and support might not be enough or even wanted. Sometimes there is nothing to be done when a person makes the decision. It can be difficult to know, for those concerned, who definitely wants to live but is petrified and can't see a way out or who has decided that they are done and help is not wanted or needed.

    So we must first try. There was an AMA recently with a helpline volunteer. I can't remember the exact post but it was basically saying that if a distressed person rings and says they want to end their life then the volunteer would simply listen and be present for them. I couldn't get my head around this. My first instinct would be to help them find a reason to live, even if my abilities were limited due to the medium of communication. Jaysus. Let them know they matter, that their life matters. That might just be enough.


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    #28
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    I hate the term 'committed', someone 'committed' suicide, like they committed a crime or something.

    I lost a cousin of mine to suicide six years ago. It's horrific attending the funeral of a young person.

    Look out for, and after, one another folks, because this is a tough world and life.


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    #29
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Is it still illegal?

    I remember when I was young, being at a political gathering, they were calling for the decriminalisation of suicide.

    Sounds absurd, I know, but this was in the 80's.


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    #30
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    I'm in my 40's , before I got my to my 20's I lost four very good friends to suicide. Words don't describe the pain and hurt of not being able to help your friend. The only comfort I can take from a suicide is they are at peace. Even now in my forties I still attend funerals of friends who cannot cope and seek release. Sometimes I envy their courage especially when I am at their graveside.


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    #31
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Cleopatra_ wrote:
    I've tried to kill myself. I can only speak for myself but every single time I tried I was thinking that everyone in my life would be better off without me, that I was a bad person, that I was a burden to everyone. That I wasn't worth their time or their energy and they'd get fed up of me eventually. I envy people who cannot understand suicide because they've never been so low.

    Cleopatra_ wrote:
    The guilt you feel when you survive is horrific because you see the pain that those who love you are in, but it only makes you wish you'd done what you set out to do because now here they are upset over you, again. You've messed things up, again.


    I cannot properly put into words the feelings I feel when I read your words, but you are looking at things from the wrong angle. Your loved ones are hurt they did not see the signs that you were in trouble and needed help. Please the only advice I can give you that is meaningful is talk. You are loved and NO the world is not a better place without you, it is possible it is enhanced with your presence.


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