UK licence after Brexit

Isambard · 27-02-2019 6:32pm

"Q. I live in Ireland, hold a UK driving licence and would like to be able to continue to drive here in Ireland after Brexit on my UK driving licence.

A. In a no-deal Brexit scenario, as a resident in Ireland, your UK driving licence will not be valid to drive here in Ireland"

there's lots more but that's a snippet

GM228 · 27-02-2019 6:35pm

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Even for the paper ones?

The issuing authority for the old paper licence was the relevant local authority on behalf of the Minister for Transport.

The old paper licence however did not have to show the issuing authority like the new plastic card licence is required to.

Credit Checker Moose · 27-02-2019 6:39pm

GM228 wrote: »

The issuing authority for the old paper licence was the relevant local authority on behalf of the Minister for Transport.

The old paper licence however did not have to show the issuing authority like the new plastic card licence is required to.

Which caused all the issues when trying to exchange for a local licence overseas.

The offical had never seen an Irish paper licence and so was unsure of the issuing authority. In the end he put down "Driving licence authority, Ireland".

NIMAN · 27-02-2019 6:40pm

Just seen this article about the Green Card us border hoppers are going to need once Brexit happens

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/border-crossing-motorists-will-need-to-apply-for-green-cards-from-this-week-1.3808434

Couple of things stood out for me:

Those who plan on travelling after that period should contact their insurance companies and insurance brokers one month in advance of their expected travel date. If there is a no-deal Brexit on March 29th, then any motorist who plans on driving their Irish-registered vehicle in Northern Ireland or the UK is advised to ensure they have a Green Card or they could be subjected to the penalties for driving uninsured after that date.

So I'm going to have to call my insurance company, and I guarantee I ain't getting it for free to make sure I can drive to work each day.

Then this line:

The Oireachtas members were also informed that the Green Cards will not be necessary if a deal is agreed between the UK and the EU on Brexit. If the UK were to delay their plans for Brexit then the need for Green Cards would also be delayed.

Let's be honest, if there is any sort of deal on Brexit, its likely going to be a last minute thing, maybe only being done at the 11th hour. So its not like you could wait to find out, so EVERYONE will have to apply and pay for one anyway.

Marcusm · 27-02-2019 6:49pm

theteal wrote: »

The Irish license had been lost for weeks (well actually months but I wasn't aware) at that stage, I had to send a print of a saved copy with my UK application. It turned up the day after the UK one arrived, I sh!t you not.

I'm of the opinion that keeping the Irish one renewed is pretty pointless but am I overlooking anything?

Do you mean that your U.K. application was for an exchange of the Irish licence not sitting a U.K. test? If you exchanged it without physically surrendering it, I don’t think you can validly “renew” the Irish one. Also as you are not resident in Ireland, you are precluded from renewing any Irish licence even if you hadn’t exchanged it.

theteal · 27-02-2019 9:33pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Do you mean that your U.K. application was for an exchange of the Irish licence not sitting a U.K. test? If you exchanged it without physically surrendering it, I don’t think you can validly “renew” the Irish one. Also as you are not resident in Ireland, you are precluded from renewing any Irish licence even if you hadn’t exchanged it.

Yup, it was exchanged. I was unaware these agencies exchanged info across countries. Either way it makes little difference to me. I appreciate the info

Peregrinus · 28-02-2019 2:37am

GM228 wrote: »

And the Convention can be used if legislation is changed as I outlined, where has "Ireland" stated they won't accept for residents?

Where have they said they will? They currently don't, and the DFA statement that you quote is not unambiguous. It makes no reference to residents, or to changing Irish law to apply the Convention in a way that it doesn't currently apply. Given that it's a statement that refers to the situation throughout the the EU, and Ireland is not in a position to dictate how other EU countries will choose to apply the Convention, I'd read it as referring only to the Convention as currently applied in EU countries.

GM228 wrote: »

The AA has recently stated that the Department of Transport are in discussion regarding a "patch" to the law.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/motors/emergency-law-uk-driving-licence-brexit-659512

Well, that patch might turn out to be the extension of the Convention to cover Irish residents holding licences from other Convention countries. Or, it might not. Time will tell.

In the meantime, so far as I can see, unless and until the government changes the law or announces an intention to do so, the best advice is that as matters stand in the event of a no-deal Brexit an Irish resident will not be entitled to drive in Ireland on a UK licence.

pleas advice · 28-02-2019 2:46am

The UK parliament voted yesterday to hold a vote to ask for an extension to the Brexit negotiations, so no-deal crash out on the 29th March is looking unlikely.

MascotDec85 · 28-02-2019 8:53am

pleas advice wrote: »

The UK parliament voted yesterday to hold a vote to ask for an extension to the Brexit negotiations, so no-deal crash out on the 29th March is looking unlikely.

A risk not worth taking tbh

28-02-2019 10:38am

Marcusm wrote: »

Also as you are not resident in Ireland, you are precluded from renewing any Irish licence even if you hadn’t exchanged it.

This is totally uninforcaeable though, plenty renew their Irish licenses when living abroad. It’s a stupid rule anyway.

theteal · 28-02-2019 10:44am

Mateo Mammoth Mask wrote: »

This is totally uninforcaeable though, plenty renew their Irish licenses when living abroad. It’s a stupid rule anyway.

Yeah I didn't think that would be much of an obstacle. My Irish license is addressed to my parents house, I'm sure I can divert some postal document in that direction if I was planning on going through with it, all moot now as it's exchanged - in saying that, out of curiosity sake I may see if the NDLS site blocks me during the 3 month renewal window

Marcusm · 28-02-2019 11:03am

Mateo Mammoth Mask wrote: »

This is totally uninforcaeable though, plenty renew their Irish licenses when living abroad. It’s a stupid rule anyway.

You are absolutely correct of course that characterless individuals with no respect for the law can circumvent it. Good luck when it becomes an issue.

Marcusm · 28-02-2019 11:05am

theteal wrote: »

Yeah I didn't think that would be much of an obstacle. My Irish license is addressed to my parents house, I'm sure I can divert some postal document in that direction if I was planning on going through with it, all moot now as it's exchanged - in saying that, out of curiosity sake I may see if the NDLS site blocks me during the 3 month renewal window

Yours has been exchanged; it cannot be renewed. You have to exchange it back. Yours is one of those cases where it will be apparent that deception is in point (unlike a simple false address renewal). Given that it gives you no advantage it would be silly to attempt it.

28-02-2019 11:55am

L

Marcusm wrote: »

You are absolutely correct of course that characterless individuals with no respect for the law can circumvent it. Good luck when it becomes an issue.

Characterless individuals? Come on it’s a license renewal ffs nobody actually cares about this rule do they? As I said why is it even a rule, plenty of Irish living abroad are driving in their Irish license and would have a lot of effort to get a local one and then need it when they return home for visits especially those outside the eu who are named drivers on cars here and need an eu or preferably Irish license to be allowed drive them etc.

28-02-2019 12:03pm

I’m really attached to my paper, in 8 pieces, UK licence.

I have all those categories but I’m mainly concerned about the trailer one. Will that automatically transfer over?

Marcusm · 28-02-2019 12:22pm

Mateo Mammoth Mask wrote: »

L

Characterless individuals? Come on it’s a license renewal ffs nobody actually cares about this rule do they? As I said why is it even a rule, plenty of Irish living abroad are driving in their Irish license and would have a lot of effort to get a local one and then need it when they return home for visits especially those outside the eu who are named drivers on cars here and need an eu or preferably Irish license to be allowed drive them etc.

It’s not a rule; it’s a law. When you reside abroad even in a Vienna or Geneva Convention country you are usually required to obtain a local licence (whether by exchange or sitting the local test) after a period of time - rarely more than a year is given. Failure to adhere to this can be inadvertent or it can be deliberate. Failure to adhere to the local law may, in most developed countries, lead to the voidability if insurance policies in the event of an accident.

You may feel that you can make up your own rules or follow those which you choose. If it ever comes to bite you on the ass you might regret it. Ignorance is rarely an excuse. In most countries, making a false declaration to obtain a licence is also a more serious offence than a motoring offence. It would generally preclude a person from a job requiring probity or honesty.

Marcusm · 28-02-2019 12:24pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I’m really attached to my paper, in 8 pieces, UK licence.

I have all those categories but I’m mainly concerned about the trailer one. Will that automatically transfer over?

NDLS has an awful habit of deciding which categories to recognise and, in my limited experience if the centre in Leopardstown, they often get it wrong. The EU directive has done detailed rules about what must be recognised and there are different grant dates which grant the benefit and others which don’t. Don’t presume NDLS (or rather it’s outsourced service provider) will get it correct.

donkey balls · 28-02-2019 10:56pm

Marcusm wrote: »

NDLS has an awful habit of deciding which categories to recognise and, in my limited experience if the centre in Leopardstown, they often get it wrong. The EU directive has done detailed rules about what must be recognised and there are different grant dates which grant the benefit and others which don’t. Don’t presume NDLS (or rather it’s outsourced service provider) will get it correct.

Heard stories of categories not been added to the new card license that people would have had on their old license, When my time is up to get the new card license I am going take a photocopy of the back and front off the old pink one.

Vologda69 · 01-03-2019 12:00am

Any UK licence with code 1 or 7, or 101 or 107 indicates national categories i.e. they are valid in UK only. They are not transferrable upon exchange. Most older UK paper licences allow AM, B, BE, W and C1/C1E only. Just because a category is printed on the UK licence, doesn't mean you are entitled to it upon exchange. RSA provide clear guidelines to NDLS in relation to UK licence categories. The competence of staff in interpreting those guidelines is another matter though

.

donkey balls · 01-03-2019 12:18am

Yep there was people applying for. the Paramedic/EMT positions here but were disqualified as they had the UK license with those categories.

01-03-2019 12:34am

Right I have
B - car
C1 - truck 3500kgt-7500kgt
D1 - bus? Between 8 & 15 passengers (with 101 written after expiry date)
BE - car and trailer
C1E - truck & trailer 12000kgt (107 written after expiry
D1E bus & trailer (107 & 119)

Provisional entitlement
A - motorcycle all cc
GH - road rollers and tracked vehicles

Categories of vehicles which licence is valid nationally
F K L N P - tractors, mobility scooters, moped. Dunno what N & P are

Credit Checker Moose · 01-03-2019 1:07am

Category P

Light motorcycles with a maximum engine size of 50cc and speed not exceeding 31mph (50km/h).

Vologda69 · 01-03-2019 1:30am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Right I have
B - car
C1 - truck 3500kgt-7500kgt
D1 - bus? Between 8 & 15 passengers (with 101 written after expiry date)
BE - car and trailer
C1E - truck & trailer 12000kgt (107 written after expiry
D1E bus & trailer (107 & 119)

Provisional entitlement
A - motorcycle all cc
GH - road rollers and tracked vehicles

Categories of vehicles which licence is valid nationally
F K L N P - tractors, mobility scooters, moped. Dunno what N & P are

So your entitlement if you exchanged would be AM, BE, B, W and C1 only. Provisional categories are only valid in country of issue.

GM228 · 01-03-2019 1:33pm

Vologda69 wrote: »

Any UK licence with code 1 or 7, or 101 or 107 indicates national categories i.e. they are valid in UK only. They are not transferrable upon exchange. Most older UK paper licences allow AM, B, BE, W and C1/C1E only. Just because a category is printed on the UK licence, doesn't mean you are entitled to it upon exchange. RSA provide clear guidelines to NDLS in relation to UK licence categories. The competence of staff in interpreting those guidelines is another matter though .

Codes 1 to 99 are EU harmonised codes, codes from 100 onwards are national codes, also exchange is allowed on any code between 1 to 40.

GM228 · 01-03-2019 1:47pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Right I have
B - car
C1 - truck 3500kgt-7500kgt
D1 - bus? Between 8 & 15 passengers (with 101 written after expiry date)
BE - car and trailer
C1E - truck & trailer 12000kgt (107 written after expiry
D1E bus & trailer (107 & 119)

Provisional entitlement
A - motorcycle all cc
GH - road rollers and tracked vehicles

Categories of vehicles which licence is valid nationally
F K L N P - tractors, mobility scooters, moped. Dunno what N & P are

Just to be semantic, but codes F K L N and P should be f k l n and p. They are national codes and specifically in lower case to recognise this and are not recognised anywhere outside the UK.

Code n is for vehicles with limited use on public roads such as a forklift truck which undertakes no more than a mile of a journey such as forklift trucks loading vehicles on a public road. It is a legacy code not issued I believe since 1996 or so formerly linked to vehicles which were stamp duty exempt.

GM228 · 01-03-2019 1:48pm

Vologda69 wrote: »

So your entitlement if you exchanged would be AM, BE, B, W and C1 only. Provisional categories are only valid in country of issue.

There would be no AM entitlement.

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 3:41pm

following this with interest as a UK national living here since 2011

So I have the following on my UK licence - what do they transfer to on the Irish?

AM
A
B1
B
C1
D1 - 101
BE
C1E - 107
D1E - 101,119
fklnpq - 118

Is there anything here that I would lose?

01-03-2019 4:07pm

My UK licence is so old it only has categories A & E, will be interesting to see how these transfer to the new licence.

BorneTobyWilde · 01-03-2019 4:10pm

We all know there will not be a no deal brexit. May is as good at poker as a blind one legged duck.

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 4:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My UK licence is so old it only has categories A & E, will be interesting to see how these transfer to the new licence.

I'd be checking with licence people as my father in law lost his bike licence when he renewed his licence from the old paper version - he complained but they said there was nothing he or they could do!

If he wanted it back he would have to do a retest! given that he's 69 and not owned a bike for a few years he decided to let it go, but well pi$$ed off all the same (especially when it meant he couldn't take my new bike out :pac:)

GM228 · 01-03-2019 4:14pm

The_Chap wrote: »

following this with interest as a UK national living here since 2011

So I have the following on my UK licence - what do they transfer to on the Irish?

AM
A
B1
B
C1
D1 - 101
BE
C1E - 107
D1E - 101,119
fklnpq - 118

Is there anything here that I would lose?

Those in bold.

01-03-2019 4:14pm

The_Chap wrote: »

I'd be checking with licence people as my father in law lost his bike licence when he renewed his licence from the old paper version - he complained but they said there was nothing he or they could do!

If he wanted it back he would have to do a retest! given that he's 69 and not owned a bike for a few years he decided to let it go, but well pi$$ed off all the same (especially when it meant he couldn't take my new bike out :pac:)

I wouldn't be too worried about the bike licence, haven't ridden one for years. I'm more interested in how it works out for car and trailer or light vans though.

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 4:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be too worried about the bike licence, haven't ridden one for years. I'm more interested in how it works out for car and trailer or light vans though.

that's what I mean - if you don't have "B" stated then the new licence won't either - they can be black and white with the red tape! :eek:

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 4:21pm

GM228 wrote: »

Those in bold.

so I'd lose the ability to drive a van and a minibus?

wtf

GM228 · 01-03-2019 4:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My UK licence is so old it only has categories A & E, will be interesting to see how these transfer to the new licence.

You would only keep A (which obviously becomes B today). There is no entitlement to keep the old E.

GM228 · 01-03-2019 4:28pm

The_Chap wrote: »

so I'd lose the ability to drive a van and a minibus?

wtf

Yes as they have national restrictions. You are only entitled to carry over a category with a restriction between 1 and 40.

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 4:33pm

GM228 wrote: »

Yes as they have national restrictions. You are only entitled to carry over a category with a restriction between 1 and 40.

What restriction does the B1 have?

GM228 · 01-03-2019 4:37pm

The_Chap wrote: »

What restriction does the B1 have?

There is no Irish equivalent so you can't exchange it.

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 4:43pm

I’ll be leaving it until the last minute if that’s the case!

hi5 · 01-03-2019 4:53pm

The_Chap wrote: »

so I'd lose the ability to drive a van and a minibus?

wtf

You can drive a van up to 3.5 tonne, you can't drive a minibus as there is no Irish equivalent to UK minibus licence with for non commercial use only, which is what 101 is.

hi5 · 01-03-2019 5:04pm

The_Chap wrote: »

What restriction does the B1 have?

B1 is for light weight 4 wheel vehicles like quadracycles which would be covered under your B licence.

The_Chap · 01-03-2019 5:12pm

hi5 wrote: »

You can drive a van up to 3.5 tonne, you can't drive a minibus as there is no Irish equivalent to UK minibus licence with for non commercial use only, which is what 101 is.

Does that mean I couldn’t hire a vw transporter for example, a 9/10 seater that I have done previously for family holiday?

Credit Checker Moose · 01-03-2019 5:18pm

Nope.

01-03-2019 5:34pm

FYI

I found the following link to check codes between the different versions of UK licences.
https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories

Vologda69 · 01-03-2019 5:36pm

GM228 wrote: »

There would be no AM entitlement.

You are incorrect on that. It is granted under the p and is recognised by NDLS

GM228 · 01-03-2019 5:39pm

Vologda69 wrote: »

You are incorrect on that. It is granted under the p and is recognised by NDLS

No it's not, p is a UK national category with different licencing criteria to the EU AM category.

Vologda69 · 01-03-2019 5:40pm

GM228 wrote: »

Yes as they have national restrictions. You are only entitled to carry over a category with a restriction between 1 and 40.

Codes 1 and 7 (as they appear on older paper licences) next to C and D categories are the same as 101 and 107 on later ones. They are not transferable under any circumstances as they are recognised only in the UK.

R.O.R · 01-03-2019 5:44pm

Where are the restriction codes listed?

Vologda69 · 01-03-2019 5:44pm

R.O.R wrote: »

Where are the restriction codes listed?

See above

Vologda69 · 01-03-2019 5:45pm

R.O.R wrote: »

Where are the restriction codes listed?

Restriction 1 - not transferable.

UK licence after Brexit

Comments