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10-01-2007, 15:15   #16
Flukey
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When will they ever learn? They build lovely new roads and then immediately add a discouragement to use them. It is madness. And, yes, it could be done without bringing in the private people and giving them a license to rip off people for decades after. They could come to other P & P arrangements without doing that, or even get them built other ways.

NRA = National Rip-off Authority.
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10-01-2007, 15:24   #17
rcunning03
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When will they ever learn ?
Probably when we all take up our pitchforks march down O'Connell st and take over the GPO. Can't see it happening in my lifetime unfortunately.
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10-01-2007, 15:36   #18
Ham'nd'egger
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When will they ever learn? They build lovely new roads and then immediately add a discouragement to use them.

NRA = National Rip-off Authority.
No offence, but there is two good reasons why I like the idea of toll roads, the fact that a private entity is willing to build a road and thus saves the State and CC's a lot of money (not to mention the indirect taxes earned from wages of workers on these roads ) and the simple fact that a road toll is the most effective form of road tax as it charges the user of said road against the cost of making said road.

Indeed, in the long term, the State will earn money from the tolling of a road from VAT and commission on the tolls so that way, it gives the taxpayer "Value for Money", a buzz term in all Government departments and it can be put to use in other areas such as Education, health etc.

I am not saying it is the right way to do everything, but the benefits are greater than they appear on the surface.
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10-01-2007, 15:55   #19
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One toll is ok, not gonna kill anyone. But two is a bit silly.
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10-01-2007, 16:03   #20
Navan Junction
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No offence, but there is two good reasons why I like the idea of toll roads
I agree. Lets stick 2 tolls on the n17 and rip up the wrc.

How about that for balanced regional development?

The M3 is the VHI approach to road building - if we were all being treated equally, fine but we are not.

Social justice my hole.
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10-01-2007, 16:05   #21
rcunning03
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put to use in other areas such as Education, health etc.
If they actual did that then I would agree with you (to an extent, I think the motorists pays enough tax), but the Healthcare system isn't great, I can't see where they're spending all our money, if feels like they're just using it fund tax breaks for American mulinationals
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10-01-2007, 16:11   #22
Seth Brundle
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I can't see where they're spending all our money, if feels like they're just using it fund tax breaks for American mulinationals
typical boards response! if taxes like this weren't applied then how would the country manage to pay for important things like storage of the e-voting machines?
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10-01-2007, 16:12   #23
Navan Junction
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Indeed, in the long term, the State will earn money from the tolling of a road from VAT and commission on the tolls so that way, it gives the taxpayer "Value for Money
Yeah, it'll go towards reopening a railway or something.
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10-01-2007, 18:09   #24
Ham'nd'egger
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Yeah, it'll go towards reopening a railway or something.
Good idea
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11-01-2007, 09:24   #25
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Tolls on roads are an inefficient and backward method for anyone to recoup the costs of road building, or even just make money.

The taxation/excise system is far more efficient, and that is saying something.

The physical infrastructure of tolling even adds to the road construction costs, nevermind the need for maintanance, traffic management, employees, etc.

Even if you support fleecing motorists, you shouldn't be supporting tolls. All tolls do is screw up traffic and require the country to pay more for the road than they would otherwise have to. The only beneficiaries are the toll operators.
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19-01-2007, 10:56   #26
rcunning03
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Is the N3 going to have any work done on it to make it safer/easier to drive on ?

Will the M3 be better than the new part of the N2, which I think is one of the best roads in the country ? The old N2 was I felt incredible dangerous, regardless of what statistics say I never felt safe driving on it.

It is nice to know that if I ever happen to need to use the M3 it'll be empty because of the tolls, I'd be very annoyed if I had to use that road every day to get to work, But if the N3 is a safe road at least the motorway will take some of the traffic off the route (assuming they keep the old N3)
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19-01-2007, 11:03   #27
Seth Brundle
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Dual carriageways & motorways by design are safer. There is a much lower chance of head on collision
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19-01-2007, 11:30   #28
rcunning03
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Definately safer, even the government admit that now. Nothing worse than driving down a single lane cariage way at night, can't see the road markings and a truck travelling at least 100kmh on the opposite side of the road
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19-01-2007, 11:55   #29
Navan Junction
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Will the M3 be better than the new part of the N2,
The same I think

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The old N2 was I felt incredible dangerous
Because it was so straight there was lots of over-taking opportunities.

70mph would seem to have been the average of many cars on it.

The N3 on the other hand is not as straight and harder to over take on. The section between Navan and Dalgan being one, and between Ross Cross and Dunshaughlin the other and the last one between Rathbeggan and the Blackbull.

Speed on the n3 are frequently only about the 50mph mark..

I think the N3 will be left to rot like th old N1
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19-01-2007, 12:01   #30
Navan Junction
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I correct myself - the N2 north of Ashbourne was and is very straight - not as good sth of Ashbourne.

Incidently, the N2 was apparently aligned to facilitate a visit to Slane by Victoria, formerly queen of England.

Which is why it was so straight - can't remember where I picked that up
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