Ripped up my polling card. Not voting

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 5:10pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That argument is a bit like me telling my child to eat their dinner because there are starving people in other parts of the world.

There are large numbers of people everywhere who are disconnected from voting. You may as well not vote as vote for someone in the ULA in this election for all the effect it will have.

What an interesting comparison, however your use of the phrase "telling a child" to do something is appropriate. A child doesnt know any better, an adult should. Perhaps you are suggesting that those that dont vote have the mentality of a child as they need to be educated on the importance and ramifications of voting ?

If a child doesnt eat their dinner, in truth it really only affects them (or their family who may not be able to afford the waste). When people choose not to vote they arent just affecting themselves by not having a voice, their decision has a huge impact on the rest of us as people may get into positions of power mainly down to the true voice of Irish Citizens not being properly heard.

People fighting for their freedom is a stark reminder that deomcracy has come at a cost to Irish People. Choosing not to vote is choosing to be lazy and ignorant of the freedom we enjoy and is a kick in the face to people who suffer tyranny of dictators who literally put their lives on the line to get the opportunity to vote.

Like I said, theres nothing to stop people spoiling their votes by voting but not choosing a candidate. Not voting at all basically means you dont really give a sh8t how the country is run, no amount of waffling can disguise that fact. As such you abdicate your right to moan about the state of the country as you did nothing to try to make it better.

gk5000 · 22-02-2011 5:11pm

To OP and other non voters:

You post in this forum so seem to want your voice to be heard, to influence others;

Yet you do not wish for your voice to counted or to influence the collective decision to elect a new government.

This does not compute!

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 5:26pm

gk5000 wrote: »

To OP and other non voters:

You post in this forum so seem to want your voice to be heard, to influence others;

Yet you do not wish for your voice to counted or to influence the collective decision to elect a new government.

This does not compute!

Good point . .

So you dont agree with the current political structure ? (neither do I)

You dont really like the alternatives? (neither do most people),

So instead of voting for a new politician who at least may be better then what we have, you choose to do nothing that will change nothing ?

Just the kind of people/attitudes we dont need to get our country back up and running . .

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country . . Spending some time to get to know the candidates, gettiong off your ass down to a booth and Voting once every 5 years isnt alot to ask ! !

vallo · 22-02-2011 5:36pm

If you can imagine yourself next Saturday listening to who tops the poll and who is eliminated after the first count and really feel nothing, then go and spoil your vote. Register your disaffection in a manner that'll actually count.

If you think for a second that you might feel angry/regretful or experience any other emotion when you hear that one reasonable candidate is eliminated while one completely obnoxious career politician is still in with a chance of a seat, then you must vote.

Someone put it well on the radio the other day. Start with the most reprehensible character on the list, give him/her your last preference and then work your way up to number one from there.

Crasp · 22-02-2011 5:38pm

The tone of this thread seems to be "vote for someone you dislike the least" which seems rubbish imo. Exercising your right to vote is useless if you're essentially still voting for someone you don't actually want.

I also wouldn't vote for any party candidates, I disagree with all the policies. Maybe the independents would be a good bet, but I'm not familiar with their policies. A moot point.

How about a negative marking scheme for voting? Number of (1)s plus the number of (-1)s and whoever has the highest points wins. If noone wins, repeat election, preferably with new candidates.

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 5:41pm

Crasp wrote: »

The tone of this thread seems to be "vote for someone you dislike the least" which seems rubbish imo. Exercising your right to vote is useless if you're essentially still voting for someone you don't actually want.

I also wouldn't vote for any party candidates, I disagree with all the policies. Maybe the independents would be a good bet, but I'm not familiar with their policies. A moot point.

How about a negative marking scheme for voting? Number of (1)s plus the number of (-1)s and whoever has the highest points wins. If noone wins, repeat election, preferably with new candidates.

Have you read most of the posts ? Spoil your vote and at least vote. It sends a message to politicians that people want to vote for change and alternatives. Not voting sends a message that you just couldnt be bothered.

vallo · 22-02-2011 5:43pm

Crasp wrote: »

The tone of this thread seems to be "vote for someone you dislike the least" which seems rubbish imo. Exercising your right to vote is useless if you're essentially still voting for someone you don't actually want.

The point is that in some constituencies and for some voters, there are no candidates they like.
Voting for the people they dislike the least makes absolute sense in those cases.
E.g I will use my vote all the way down to the very last position where I'll put the two FFers. That way my ballot cannot possibly help them over the line, but crucially, may help whoever they are in competition against for the last seat.
Plus spite is very therapeutic.

caseyann · 22-02-2011 6:10pm

So you want to go the Belgium route?

nitrogen · 22-02-2011 6:29pm

Jackovarian wrote: »

Sure, but at the end of the day there are other options out there, even if the Irish media only feeds you the usuals.

No excuse not to vote.

But what if your options are only a Douche or a Turd?

vallo · 22-02-2011 6:29pm

caseyann wrote: »

So you want to go the Belgium route?

Why would you think that??

MyKeyG · 22-02-2011 6:34pm

Ddad wrote: »

I think we often forget what it means to have a vote. It's not so long ago that our ancestors fought and died for that privilege.

I've heard this old chestnut before. Our ancestors didn't die for our vote, they died for our rights. One of those is the right not to vote. Don't use the struggle to justify your opinion.

steve9859 · 22-02-2011 6:41pm

rorymcgrory wrote: »

For the first time since I turned 18 I will not be voting.

Well, thats very constructive. Congratulations!

Barack Obama · 22-02-2011 6:46pm

IMO you should spoil your vote on the day rather then not vote - it's a better form of protesting.

P. Breathnach · 22-02-2011 6:51pm

Barack Obama wrote: »

IMO you should spoil your vote on the day rather then not vote - it's a better form of protesting.

I don't think so. Your vote gets a passing mention ("spoiled votes: 533") and the count goes on as if you never voted.

I cannot imagine a situation where there is no basis to give one candidate a higher preference than another: I'd sooner vote for a bastard than for an evil bastard.

Raskolnikov · 22-02-2011 6:53pm

There is always a "least worse" option.

MyKeyG · 22-02-2011 6:57pm

hinault wrote: »

You don't vote then you will have no right to whinge about political decisions taken in the new Dail

While he's paying his taxes and subject to the law he's entitled to whinge about every decision that affects his life as a citizen, vote or no vote.

I'm amazed at the amount of people who come out with this ridiculous juvenile argument.

johnnyskeleton · 22-02-2011 7:01pm

rorymcgrory wrote: »

For the first time since I turned 18 I will not be voting.

I refuse to vote for FG/labour or Sinn Fein. Watched the frontline and having heard independents was last straw. No vote from me.

Anyone else feel like this?

I'm sure that there are more independents in your area than appeared on frontline. Look them up and ask them what their policies are.

If after all that you still can't vote for anyone, at least go in and spoil your vote just so that your dissatisfaction is registered. That at least is better than not voting, which is just apathy.

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 7:02pm

MyKeyG wrote: »

I've heard this old chestnut before. Our ancestors didn't die for our vote, they died for our rights. One of those is the right not to vote. Don't use the struggle to justify your opinion.

They died for the right for people not to give a sh*t about how their country is run ?

They cared for their country . . In no way can not voting be twisted to convince me that its nothing other then ignoring the responsibility we gained when they won our freedom. .

Voting is an integral part of democracy. In truth if you dont vote you are being led by somebody elses chosen leader, so in essence you have sh*t all over the whole point of fighting for the right to decide who should lead you.

Why should people obide by laws made by a government or pay the taxes of a country ? If people had the same attitude to these things we would have anarchy.

The whole point of voting is that you try to encourage a progressive, better society for all. There is no point to not voting and it serves no purpose as it achieves nothing. If you dont vote, people dont know what you want. If you spoil your vote they know that you at least care enough to get your ass to a polling station and have an opinion worth discussing.

I have a right to sh*t in my back garden, doesnt mean I choose to do it . . Likewise, people who choose not to vote have a right to be ignorant.

johnnyskeleton · 22-02-2011 7:03pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't think so. Your vote gets a passing mention ("spoiled votes: 533") and the count goes on as if you never voted.

I cannot imagine a situation where there is no basis to give one candidate a higher preference than another: I'd sooner vote for a bastard than for an evil bastard.

I disagree. If there was a significant turnout of spoiled votes the media would latch onto it, especially if there were more spoiled votes than votes for a sitting FF TD in any constituency.

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 7:05pm

MyKeyG wrote: »

While he's paying his taxes and subject to the law he's entitled to whinge about every decision that affects his life as a citizen, vote or no vote.

I'm amazed at the amount of people who come out with this ridiculous juvenile argument.

He can whinge but nobody should/will listen.

If he cant even be bothered choosing who to spend his tax's , why should anybody (including those spending the tax's) listen to him ?. .

If you dont care who gets into power then put up and shut up . .

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 7:11pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I disagree. If there was a significant turnout of spoiled votes the media would latch onto it, especially if there were more spoiled votes than votes for a sitting FF TD in any constituency.

If the usual non voters ( over 30% of the electorate) went into the booths and spoiled their votes, can you imagine the impact it could potentially have ?

In truth, this could do more for real political reform, revolutionary reform even, then any current party voted into next government, with their lame hollow, reform promises . So by voting for nobody, they have announced their declaration that they will vote, but only for change, real change . . In truth, the non voters are the ones with the power to do the most in the current climate to force the will of politicians for real progressive change.

Zubeneschamali · 22-02-2011 7:19pm

Drumpot wrote: »

If the usual non voters ( over 30% of the electorate) went into the booths and spoiled their votes, can you imagine the impact it could potentially have ?

RTE would have a field day with pundits analysing their belly-button fluff, but it would have no actual effect on anything since exactly the same people would get elected.

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 7:33pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

RTE would have a field day with pundits analysing their belly-button fluff, but it would have no actual effect on anything since exactly the same people would get elected.

If 30% of the population voted for change and made the effort to get this message to their politicians, you can bet your ass that somebody or some party will do their damnest to do whatever it takes to get these voters onside. Spoiling your vote by actually voting says you want to be a part of how our country is run but do not believe in the current options.

Not just that, if opinion poles showed that most of these spoiled voters would vote for a party/politician who offered them real hope, honest accountability and real politican reform , you would certainly find it would give our new government something to think about with regards to the next election. Put simply, if they made hollow promises that they didnt deliver on, potentially they could lose over 30% of potential votes (of people who care enough to vote, even if to spoil it in protest) for another party that promises to implement the kind of reform/policies that these non voters were protesting for.

Nothing good comes from not voting as your voice is not heard at all. If there is a hullabuloo about people spoiling votes we all know that our incoming government will have to listen (as politicians only care about voters). Why else do the pensioners (group that votes most proportionatly) nearly always get preferential treatment by all parties ?

Zubeneschamali · 22-02-2011 7:35pm

Drumpot wrote: »

if opinion poles showed that most of these spoiled voters would vote for a party/politician who offered them real hope, honest accountability and real politican reform , you would certainly find it would give our new government something to think about with regards to the next election.

No, they all say they are offering those things now!

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 7:38pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, they all say they are offering those things now!

And if 30% people say they dont believe in the incoming government but would vote for somebody who does what they say in the next election, the incoming government would be under far greater pressure to deliver on their promises for fear of being voted against by the 30% who chose not to vote either way and could make a substantial contribution to choosing the next government.

There is no other way at looking at it other then that it would be a positive if more people voted, even if they were spoiled votes .

Not just that, more voters who are disallusioned dilute party power as its not just party members mainly voting for their man (irrespective of candidate).

Zubeneschamali · 22-02-2011 7:43pm

Drumpot wrote: »

There is no other way at looking at it other then that it would be a positive if more people voted, even if they were spoiled votes .

Eh, yes there is. What exactly are politicians supposed to do to attract all those spoiled votes?

Use opinion polls to find out what the electorate wants? They already do that.

Wear a little tinsel halo and pretend to be a saint?

Might be worth a shot!

Drumpot · 22-02-2011 8:00pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, yes there is. What exactly are politicians supposed to do to attract all those spoiled votes?

Use opinion polls to find out what the electorate wants? They already do that.

Wear a little tinsel halo and pretend to be a saint?

Might be worth a shot!

Do you really think that a party wouldnt listen to 30% of the voters ? If so, you should get a bit more educated on the motives of politicians.

The opinion poles are supposed to represent people who vote. If you dont vote you do nothing to encourage change, if you vote for change by spoiling your vote , its certainly at least a step above doing nothing . .

An opinion pole that shows people will not vote for parties out of complete dissalusionment in the system is just an opinion pole. 30% of an electorate voting against the current system is a statement of intention. Thats the differance.

And even if we get the same kind of politicians who are too afraid of their electorate to do the wrong thing, that is progression.

If you dont believe change is possible, you will be the master of your own prediction. Giving up on change serves no positive purpose. By not voting you do nothing for change. Even if you spoil your vote in protest your voice is being heard and you are doing the right thing for the right reason. If you dont vote , nobody in politics cares much for what you think.

MyKeyG · 22-02-2011 8:20pm

Grouse67 wrote: »

Very very sad, people protesting and dying all over the world looking for a vote and a huge % of us in Ireland just won’t bother

Very very sad? Jeez calm down.:rolleyes:

gk5000 · 22-02-2011 9:17pm

Sad if someone can't be bothered voting, but not worth worrying about as their opinions don't count for much in my book. And that includes people who spoil their vote.

Ripped up my polling card. Not voting

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