"Would ya not just leave, like?"

PeterStrauss The Second · 22-09-2012 4:08pm

disgraceful approach really in fairness.

Tombi! · 22-09-2012 4:13pm

Abi wrote: »

My point exactly.

Edit: I better add to this, because you've to be very specific about what you mean on these matters. I don't mean for the agencies to suggest the non-nationals to 'go home', I mean would they also advise them to go live in other countries.

Ah no, I got that. But considering the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Poland is part of it. I pick that. But in either case it really would cause a problem if people from other countries came here and the response was "leave and work somewhere else".

Abi · 22-09-2012 4:33pm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Ah no, I got that. But considering the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Poland is part of it. I pick that. But in either case it really would cause a problem if people from other countries came here and the response was "leave and work somewhere else".

You mentioned Poland specifically, not me though, far from it. My way of thinking would be, why the divide in the first place? If they're being given orders to get people off the register, why isn't it across the board?

Getting people off the register is their aim, but they'll only suggest that Irish emigrate in case they're accused of something. I've mentioned the elephant in the room, and don't see the problem with it.

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 4:36pm

Abi wrote: »

I wonder if Irish people are the only ones being told they're better off leaving Ireland, or is it anyone who enters their offices.

This is what I was getting at, well partly mentioned in my first post.

Just imagine the backlash if a non-national (EU, or otherwise) was given the same 'advice'. "No job's, why not go elsewhere? Flights are cheap enough ..." Straight away the race card would be out.

We'd hear about it as quick as the PC reaction to the FG Councillor in Naas.
NOTE: I'm a massive fan of the EU freedom of travel and work, and I have benefited from it. Just using an example, feel free to disregard it before this thread takes a different turn.

IzzyWizzy · 22-09-2012 4:50pm

I think it's silly to have the 'just leave' mentality. I wonder how many people saying that would happily leave their entire life behind to go and live in a new country with possibly a new language, new culture etc.

Moving abroad isn't easy. I've done it loads of times, I'm living abroad now and it's much more taxing than people think. They tend to only see the good parts ("oh, you're living near a beach!", "Booze is cheap there!"), not the crushing loneliness for the first while, the mountains of paperwork/filling in forms, the never seeing your family, the feeling like an idiot because you didn't understand a question, getting used to totally different food, the culture shock, different humour.... it's bloody difficult. Most of the people who think it's easy are people who wouldn't dream of doing it themselves.

Eggy Baby! · 22-09-2012 4:58pm

With all honesty, I got into a FAS course this year to keep me occupied and the waiting time was awful. It took over 5 months I believe. Stuff like that would make you want to emigrate. I was also talking to a middle aged member of the course who said he applied a decade ago!

In the end, I was in the course getting paid rather well so I was pretty happy. I'm younger than most applicants I'd reckon, so that might explain why there was no "you should go to Australia" lark.

Abi · 22-09-2012 5:00pm

IrishExpat wrote: »

This is what I was getting at, well partly mentioned in my first post.

Just imagine the backlash if a non-national (EU, or otherwise) was given the same 'advice'. "No job's, why not go elsewhere? Flights are cheap enough ..." Straight away the race card would be out.

We'd hear about it as quick as the PC reaction to the FG Councillor in Naas.
NOTE: I'm a massive fan of the EU freedom of travel and work, and I have benefited from it. Just using an example, feel free to disregard it before this thread takes a different turn.

We have a pussy government, and it's a free for all. So pussy in fact, that our country would rather rid us of our own than admit making the mistake of putting the same measures that Canada and Australia have in place.

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 5:02pm

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

I think it's silly to have the 'just leave' mentality. I wonder how many people saying that would happily leave their entire life behind to go and live in a new country with possibly a new language, new culture etc.

Moving abroad isn't easy. I've done it loads of times, I'm living abroad now and it's much more taxing than people think. They tend to only see the good parts ("oh, you're living near a beach!", "Booze is cheap there!"), not the crushing loneliness for the first while, the mountains of paperwork/filling in forms, the never seeing your family, the feeling like an idiot because you didn't understand a question, getting used to totally different food, the culture shock, different humour.... it's bloody difficult. Most of the people who think it's easy are people who wouldn't dream of doing it themselves.

Seconded. I made a massive error of judgement when I left, arriving in Madrid with a few words of Spanish, 300 quid, 2 changes of clothes and no plan for a flat/job etc, but I landed on my feet quick enough.

If I were to go again, I'd do a mountain of research, learn the language at least 3 months before leaving and plan regular flights home 6-8 months in advance and possibly find people before arriving (easy enough with meetup.com etc). Basic ground-work.

That said, it did stand to me.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy · 22-09-2012 5:14pm

IrishExpat wrote: »

Apologies to Mods if this is the wrong forum, if so; please move.

Is it just me ... or have the local employment centres (FAS), social welfare offices and others decided to start advocating emigration?

I'm just back in the country; and setting about getting myself up-skilled and taking the self-employment route. I've signed up for a few courses with my local VEC and Enterprise Board, and keeping myself busy; but in practically everyplace I've gone for advice ...

"Ah shure, a young lad like yourself, would you not be better of travelling/in Oz."
"I'd recommend speaking to a EURES advisor."
"Emigration is so much easier now than in my day, what with Ryanair ..."

And signing on for a temporary assistance (not JB), met with the same, "But why did you come home? My nephew is in Canada and there's plenty of work for Irish lads ..."

I'm home, I want to live and work in my own country after a good few years abroad. Didn't particularly want to go in the first place, but that's another story.

Do other nationality's get these not so subtle hints also when looking for assistance? Is this some deep rooted part of the Irish psyche, or am I talking to the wrong people?

Thoughts?

There is no secret about it . State sponsered immigration is a public policy and yes FÁS are instructed to advice people to immigrate.

State sponsered immigration is nothing new here. Infact there is some debt forgiveness scheme associated with it.

The theory is Foreign nationals will work for less and in worse jobs.

I am not unemployed ..but i am young i have a University education (which the Govt paid for, well the undergrad part ) nd I have langauges.

If i went to the Govt they would ship me off happily and i would happily go.

It is mad though i have so many skills that i have been approached by foreign interests.

But yes immigration is really the only thing keeping this country afloat it is th reason there are no riots here like Spain.

I might consider leaving. I woould take a couple of years to plan it though. And i HAVE languages. Planning and education is key. And connections.

I have family in Switzerland, France and Denmark..so hmm

But i get the impression it is easier for Irish people in the UK or America. But America is such a commitment and the UK is economically not much better. I had a cousin working as an accountant there and he is working at home now.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy · 22-09-2012 5:20pm

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

We'd probably have a population near to that of Germany and a population density near to that of Japan.

Japan is awesome lets do it!

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 5:22pm

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

I might consider leaving. I woould take a couple of years to plan it though. And i HAVE languages.

Surely you should take advantage of any language skills you have, as companies are practically crying out for Irish workers with these.

"THE online company that announced 1,000 new jobs in February yesterday said it is having trouble finding Irish workers with the necessary language skills."

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/paypal-forced-to-import-500-workers-and-warns-of-language-skills-crisis-3171118.html

enda1 · 22-09-2012 6:00pm

What was the point in Ireland joining the EU and signing the Maastricht treaty if we're not going to avail of its clauses in encouraging people to move around the EU-wide jobs market? (obviously this doesn't count for Canada or Australia etc.)

Tombi! · 22-09-2012 6:12pm

Abi wrote: »

You mentioned Poland specifically, not me though, far from it. My way of thinking would be, why the divide in the first place? If they're being given orders to get people off the register, why isn't it across the board?

Getting people off the register is their aim, but they'll only suggest that Irish emigrate in case they're accused of something. I've mentioned the elephant in the room, and don't see the problem with it.

I mentioned Poland because it was the first country I thought of when I think of EU workers over here

But they can't tell non-nationals or whatever phrase they use to leave; because it'd cause a lot of backlash. Since they have a "right" to be here and all that. So telling them the truth "we have no jobs and you should leave" is going to look like we're trying to say "yes you're allowed be here but go away cause we won't give you a job".

"Would ya not just leave, like?"

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