Gas Fracking

rhonin · 29-08-2011 4:10pm

Gipo3 wrote: »

Surely some of the "experts" here know the answer to your question Buford.

I hate this type of attitude.
Obviously the fracking isn't going to happen close to you. Its all fine when your not living beside it.

My home place isn't far from where the corrib gas pipe will come onshore and I can see where both sides of the argument come from. I hope this doesn't turn into a similar situation. The community is divided and neighbours don't talk to each other. With such huge money involved in the gas & oil industry there is usually only one winner though.

red sean · 29-08-2011 11:58pm

rhonin wrote: »

I hate this type of attitude.
Obviously the fracking isn't going to happen close to you. Its all fine when your not living beside it.

My home place isn't far from where the corrib gas pipe will come onshore and I can see where both sides of the argument come from. I hope this doesn't turn into a similar situation. The community is divided and neighbours don't talk to each other. With such huge money involved in the gas & oil industry there is usually only one winner though.

That is a concern of mine as well. Not to mention the influx of "tree-huggers" and imported "professional protesters" that took over your home region.
Personally, I'm completely ignorant on the gas fracking procedure and it's impact on an area socially and environmentally and will probably remain that way until I can hear a balanced debate on the subject. Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen, as the two sides will probably never meet in a situation where the general public is subjected to neither possible scare-mongering on one side and possible false comfort on the other. In the meantime I shall do as much research on balanced information as I can before I make up my mind which side I'm on. This could be socially and environmentally disastrous for the region and the country, I do'nt know. It could also be a lifeline to economic recovery, again I do'nt know. Yet.

garth-marenghi · 30-08-2011 9:47am

Gipo3 wrote: »

Surely some of the "experts" here know the answer to your question Buford.

Good constructive contribution there. Apart from refering to people organising corrib protests as gob****es do you have any views on Hydraulic Fracturing? I for one dont claim to be an 'expert". And to be honest I dont know the answer to Bufords question. Im sure at the forthcoming public meetings and consultations there are people who are more technically savy that would be able to answer. Like a lot of people who have only recently heard about Fracking Im very much learning as I go in this campaign.

zenno · 01-09-2011 4:40am

ok youtube cut my gasland videos off today so I hope some of you got to watch the full documentary before this happened, sorry about that but I knew I had limited time before this happened.

best wishes

zenno.

tuppence · 09-09-2011 11:48am

Articles in todays Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0909/1224303759953.html

and

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0909/1224303759867.html

Pete M. · 16-09-2011 10:39pm

Anti Fracking Protest outside Sligo Park Hotel tomorrow evening 17th Sept at 8pm.
Pat Rabbitte is in town for some sort of knees up so if you object to your environment potentially being destroyed so gas can be extracted and sold for profit, then please attend.

garth-marenghi · 15-10-2011 8:53am

Public information night on Fracking coming up in the Bee Park community centre in Manorhamiliton next week Tuesday October 18th at 7.30. Speakers include

Fr AB O Shea(parish priest sooey)
Rob Doyle (local vet)
Councillor Gerry Dolan
Sean Wynn (Lough Allen Conservation Group)
Nuala Mcnulty (Eco Tourism)

Chaired by Mary Daly
Organised by the Love Leitrim group.

tuppence · 25-10-2011 1:19am

Wondering which way to vote and concerned about hydraulic fracturing in our area.
http://what-the-frack.org/

tedshredsonfire · 26-10-2011 9:24pm

Had a chat with me bro about this the other night. Its an open and shut case imho. The devil is in the detail if you go down the route of trying to outmedia the pros. keep it simple and plant seeds of doubt where they are genuine. The only seed to plant is the food and tourism one. Dont complicate it. When the **** hit the fan in our economy we had food and tourism to fall back on and develop further. Its ours and its indigenous. We are justifiably world fameous for our green land lets keep it that way. Thats all the campaigners need to do. Use this message and you will have the majority of of irish business people behind you.
Please do not go down the "these guys are all evil campaign" you will lose the peoples confidence. My two cents anyway

tuppence · 13-11-2011 10:44pm

tedshredsonfire wrote: »

Had a chat with me bro about this the other night. Its an open and shut case imho. The devil is in the detail if you go down the route of trying to outmedia the pros. keep it simple and plant seeds of doubt where they are genuine. The only seed to plant is the food and tourism one. Dont complicate it. When the **** hit the fan in our economy we had food and tourism to fall back on and develop further. Its ours and its indigenous. We are justifiably world fameous for our green land lets keep it that way. Thats all the campaigners need to do. Use this message and you will have the majority of of irish business people behind you.
Please do not go down the "these guys are all evil campaign" you will lose the peoples confidence. My two cents anyway

Hi Thanks for that. That is indeed the message, this is what is precious to us our mainstay of our local economy and it is sustainable. Fracking is the biggest threat that could adversely effect the north west so it will effect us all. But the difference is that everybody needs to be giving that message to their political representatives and people they meet not just the 'campaigners' . Campaigners are just members of the public who care about the place they live, people like you and me. Its up to all of us to speak up about this and if I have noticed anything its that I have never seen as many normal joe soaps come out about anything, that would never would have been out for anything else. We cant afford to expect others to do the work for us, this is too big, we can afford to do that. So pls pls pls for once lets all stop being voyeurs and lets do something. If everyone who has concerns bout this for example made a call to their local councillor, better still their TD, and their local MEP, the message would definitely get across.

So thankyou Tedshredonfire I am totally with you, but can you and your bro get dialling and ask everybody you know to as well

:)

tuppence · 13-11-2011 10:58pm

For people in Sligo who need to get more technical information on the whole issue
Fracking Information session entitled. "Shale Gas Extraction, Boom or Bust"
Cliffoney hall.
Monday 14th of November, 8pm.
Presentation by Dr. Aedin Mcloughlin, BSC, PHD.
For more information pls email youthmardingo@gmail.com

tuppence · 13-11-2011 11:04pm

Another information meeting in Sligo, organised by Lough Allen Conservation Society.
Sligo Southern Hotel
Tuesday 15th. 7.30pm
For more information contact info@allen.ie

itac · 15-11-2011 11:19pm

Here's a video from a Link tv's earth focus and the UK Ecologist Film Unit.
Makes for interesting watching. Personally, from what I've read so far on fracking, I can't agree with it. The idea of visually and physically losing the beautiful areas around Sligo, for a few years of profit....are we really that fúcked now? There has to be other options, other avenues other than destroying the one thing that has been a constant in the Irish life for generations.

Sligo is my home, it's where I'm from, and where my heart will always be, no matter how far away I live. My grandparents & great-grandparents grew up and fell in love under the heads of Benbulben & Glencar, and those same mountains, the same sights they saw and love are what greet me when I come home.

I joke that because I'm from Sligo, those mountains are mine, the sea is mine, the vistas are mine, yet the peace that those areas bring to my soul seem to be shared amongst everyone who sees them. To think that they may be lost to me, to future generations for several billion of instant profit, breaks my heart.

Here's a video I was sent recently about the effects of fracking in the States. If someone wants a copy for themselves, give me a shout. (Mods, if that's not ok, then feel free to delete that!)

EDIT: Just spotted Gareth posted this a few pages back, I got it under a different title!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQIn-poJqtg

itac · 18-11-2011 12:52pm

Just a note to say I got this email...nice to have some form of acknowledgment and some interesting points outlined too...

"Dear Ita
I wish to acknowledge your email on behalf of the Minister of State for the NewERA Project, Mr Fergus O’Dowd, T.D regarding fracking. You may find the following information useful:

There has been a good deal of public interest recently on the topic of onshore gas exploration. While there has been considerable focus on the possibility of the technology of hydraulic fracturing (“fracking”) being used, the authorisations that have been granted by the Department do not permit exploration drilling of any kind at this point in time and specifically do not provide for fracking.

The authorisations granted by the Department in February of this year are called “licensing options”. The licensing options are for a two-year period and expressly state that exploration drilling may not be carried out under the licensing option. Before the companies concerned could apply for an exploration licence and proceed to an exploration drilling phase, they must first complete the licensing option work programme agreed with the Department.

These work programmes are primarily based on desktop studies of existing data and should be completed by February 2013. When they have completed their work programmes each company will then have to decide if it wishes to move to the next stage and apply for an exploration licence.

Any application for an exploration licence that would involve exploration drilling, including drilling that proposed using hydraulic fracturing, would be subject to an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA). That assessment would include a Public Consultation Phase, of four weeks or more, which would be advertised on the Department’s website and in the local press. This would provide an opportunity for the public to input into the decision making process. The Department would also seek and be guided by the expert advice of other relevant statutory authorities such as the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) and the Local Authorities. The outcome of the EIA would determine whether or not an Exploration Licence would be granted.

In the event that at some point in the future a commercial discovery of natural gas is made and an onshore gas extraction project is proposed then there is a comprehensive regulatory framework in place that would apply to any such proposal. The development of such a project would require a number of statutory consents including a planning consent from An Bord Pleanála under the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure Act) 2006, an Integrated Pollution Prevention Control Licence from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), along with a Petroleum Lease, a Plan of Development consent and a Gas Pipeline consent from the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. A core element of these consent processes would be to consider the potential environmental impact of any proposed development.

It is too early to conclude at this point whether or not these licensing options will proceed to the exploration licence stage and much too early to anticipate a commercial discovery that could potentially lead to a natural gas production project.

While it is also too early for a formal public consultation at this point as too many factors have as yet to be decided, including whether or not drilling will actually be proposed, the Minister is aware that public bodies that would have roles were there to be an application for exploration or production that involved hydraulic fracturing, are seeking more information on the issues involved. Minister Rabbitte has also asked the EPA to examine the area and advise him and his colleagues in Government on the environmental implications of fracking.

Preliminary background research is being commenced into the environmental considerations and impacts of shale gas exploration and extraction, in particular with regard to the use of hydraulic fracturing and investigation into the regulatory approaches of other countries, with a view to helping to establish best environmental practice.

I hope that you will find these clarifications helpful.

________
Private Secretary"

wolf99 · 27-11-2011 1:23pm

That is a nice informative letter, and its always great to have any acknowledgment in a campaign of concern.

However, rural Ireland has a long history of public consultation groups being held, just to fulfill the required regulations etc, with the outcomes of the consultations being summarily ignored, or overruled by cash-strapped county/town-councils or chambers of commerce and so on (Pedestrianisation of Slgo's O'Connoll st?)
The rest of the requirements are just a matter of filling out the paperwork in a timely and correct fashion and a few smiles.
The companies involved in this industry have BILLIONS upon BILLIONS available, they can surely manage to file some paperwork that is in their own interests.

Another non-environmental aspect of the whole idea is that the asset itself (the gas) will essentially be given away free...
Yes the companies will have too pay for the small patches of land that a pump pad takes up, and they pay to have the pads installed and the licence etc... small potatoes to what they'll make from the gas which they'll pay nothing for.

Once again the govt is trying to make a quick (and small) buck from something the people of Ireland own. Yes we own it! just like the forests they're also trying to sell, and all the oil and gas in the sea that they have already given away!

Please do take time to watch this short video that is very pertinent to the matter of national asset sale, even if you disagree with my points it is an interesting video.

http://youtu.be/76VOnzXQMsU

garth-marenghi · 02-12-2011 11:30am

Roscommon County Council has called for a ban on Hydraulic Fracturing.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1202/1224308473434.html

wolf99 · 02-12-2011 12:51pm

garth-marenghi wrote: »

Roscommon County Council has called for a ban on Hydraulic Fracturing.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1202/1224308473434.html

Brilliant! Roscommon is my home county, and not exactly known for involvement in really positive politics, so its great to see them stand up and stand out about this!

reiger · 02-12-2011 8:29pm

here we have people taking up a cause that there knowledge is very poor on,i would suggest some of you may talk to many irish that have recently left these shores and are in Australia working on such projects in a country that has very strict eviromental codes.

perhaps if people that are anti this that and the other just to be running around with a cause would stop for a minuite and look at the other side of things,Job creation into the future and the benifits to the economy.

but i will get slaughtered for my comments because you are not allowed talk against such issues in these type of threads.

but as a nation we have to get up of our backsides and embrace such projects to pull ourselves out of this deep depression we are in.

in a nutshell there ive said it but i will get told my info is wrong and all the rest,
well ive two brothers working on a project like this at the moment just to keep a roof over their familys and to give their kids a good future.wouldnt it be great if they could do this closer to home

wolf99 · 02-12-2011 9:18pm

reiger wrote: »

here we have people taking up a cause that there knowledge is very poor on,i would suggest some of you may talk to many irish that have recently left these shores and are in Australia working on such projects in a country that has very strict eviromental codes.

perhaps if people that are anti this that and the other just to be running around with a cause would stop for a minuite and look at the other side of things,Job creation into the future and the benifits to the economy.

but i will get slaughtered for my comments because you are not allowed talk against such issues in these type of threads.

but as a nation we have to get up of our backsides and embrace such projects to pull ourselves out of this deep depression we are in.

in a nutshell there ive said it but i will get told my info is wrong and all the rest,
well ive two brothers working on a project like this at the moment just to keep a roof over their familys and to give their kids a good future.wouldnt it be great if they could do this closer to home

For myself I specifically havent mentioned the jobs side. The reason being, yes, people need more jobs, so to say we shouldnt be trying to get them is ridiculous.
HOWEVER!! The process with fracking is very different to a lot of other asset extraction, it is 99.99% automated. there will be some small amount of construction at the start of course, but in every other location this process has been used this has been performed by specialist contractors that already have knowledge in this (i.e not Irish) or by the companies current employees.
After that the process is administrative, and small amount of repair work.

This is what I mean to emphasise on my previous posts. Some folks are of the opinion that ALL companies should be allowed do what they want in Ireland if they *promise* jobs however these jobs dont materialise, i.e. the irish people get no return on investment, all the ROI is the company's side.

I dont mean to tell you that your talking a load of crap, reiger, the people that do have jobs in similar industries do of course want to hold onto them, and we WOULD like to be able to encourage other companies to bring jobs here. This process, though, *doesnt* bring any jobs!
This is one more reason why the companies involved havent been making their actions more public than they are required to, because people like you and me start asking what is in it for us? and in this case there isn't anything, not even jobs, in it for us.

garth-marenghi · 03-12-2011 12:21pm

reiger wrote: »

here we have people taking up a cause that there knowledge is very poor on,i would suggest some of you may talk to many irish that have recently left these shores and are in Australia working on such projects in a country that has very strict eviromental codes.

perhaps if people that are anti this that and the other just to be running around with a cause would stop for a minuite and look at the other side of things,Job creation into the future and the benifits to the economy.

but i will get slaughtered for my comments because you are not allowed talk against such issues in these type of threads.

but as a nation we have to get up of our backsides and embrace such projects to pull ourselves out of this deep depression we are in.

in a nutshell there ive said it but i will get told my info is wrong and all the rest,
well ive two brothers working on a project like this at the moment just to keep a roof over their familys and to give their kids a good future.wouldnt it be great if they could do this closer to home

You claim that people opposing Fracking have very poor knowledge on what is involved. Yet you seem too be saying just go ahead with yet as it will create jobs etc. Have you got more information than the rest of us? I dont claim to have all the answers and am not an expert in any sense but I have seen and read enough that in the very very least makes me very sceptical that is a a safe process.

You suggest we talk to the Irish working on these projects. Id much rather hear the experiences of those communities around the world that have Hydraulic Fracturing been carried out in their local areas.

I am not "anti this or the other" running around with a cause. I am living in Manorhamiliton, which is at the proposed epicentre of Fracking in the region. There is a local campaign group that is full of people from all walks of life, the majority of whom dont "run around with a cause" but are concerned citizens and worried about what is proposed in their local area. We have listened to the arguments about Jobs etc, gone to public consultations and meetings held by Tamboran etc an have not been convinced.

Tamboran estimated 300 jobs approx(this is across the north-west, over the lifetime of the project which they estimate is up to 50 years, and has already been said many of these jobs will require outsourcing for staff that have the required specialist training). Is it really worth risking our environnment, and health for that amount of jobs? And what about the threats to agriculture and tourism. The government themselves state these are the major growth industries. You may gain a few jobs in Fracking but at what cost to others? Do you think tourist will really want to come here if the landscape is littered with drill sites every 2-3 kms? It only takes one accident with contamanation with water that could jepordise farming etc. Abbots in Sligo a number of years ago I believe stayed in Sligo due to the safe water supply. Would they make the same decision again if Fracking was going on an industrial scale?

All the information about Fracking isnt yet available as it is a relatively new technique. Th EPA in America are due to finish a comprehensive report sometime next year. Surely at the very least you would agree to a moratorium until all information is available rather that just blindly saying it should go ahead? Are the French just running around with a cause when they banned it? What about South Afirca?

reiger · 03-12-2011 1:42pm

garth-marenghi wrote: »

You claim that people opposing Fracking have very poor knowledge on what is involved. Yet you seem too be saying just go ahead with yet as it will create jobs etc. Have you got more information than the rest of us? I dont claim to have all the answers and am not an expert in any sense but I have seen and read enough that in the very very least makes me very sceptical that is a a safe process.

You suggest we talk to the Irish working on these projects. Id much rather hear the experiences of those communities around the world that have Hydraulic Fracturing been carried out in their local areas.

I am not "anti this or the other" running around with a cause. I am living in Manorhamiliton, which is at the proposed epicentre of Fracking in the region. There is a local campaign group that is full of people from all walks of life, the majority of whom dont "run around with a cause" but are concerned citizens and worried about what is proposed in their local area. We have listened to the arguments about Jobs etc, gone to public consultations and meetings held by Tamboran etc an have not been convinced.

Tamboran estimated 300 jobs approx(this is across the north-west, over the lifetime of the project which they estimate is up to 50 years, and has already been said many of these jobs will require outsourcing for staff that have the required specialist training). Is it really worth risking our environnment, and health for that amount of jobs? And what about the threats to agriculture and tourism. The government themselves state these are the major growth industries. You may gain a few jobs in Fracking but at what cost to others? Do you think tourist will really want to come here if the landscape is littered with drill sites every 2-3 kms? It only takes one accident with contamanation with water that could jepordise farming etc. Abbots in Sligo a number of years ago I believe stayed in Sligo due to the safe water supply. Would they make the same decision again if Fracking was going on an industrial scale?

All the information about Fracking isnt yet available as it is a relatively new technique. Th EPA in America are due to finish a comprehensive report sometime next year. Surely at the very least you would agree to a moratorium until all information is available rather that just blindly saying it should go ahead? Are the French just running around with a cause when they banned it? What about South Afirca?

as you say you do not have all the info on fracking so yer makinging a case for anti fracking on half the information so.

as for the the jobs as i said many irish down in australia will be able to come home with experience picked up from working on fracking projects down under.
after all 300 jobs is 300 jobs i think we cannot discount this project and have to explore the options of it becoming a reality.

we have to work on hard facts im not convinced the the anti-fracking campagain have all them facts and its just like building developments and other infastructral projects up and down the country in the past,dont be building that near my house attitude i will be objecting.

garth-marenghi · 03-12-2011 2:53pm

reiger wrote: »

as you say you do not have all the info on fracking so yer makinging a case for anti fracking on half the information so.

as for the the jobs as i said many irish down in australia will be able to come home with experience picked up from working on fracking projects down under.
after all 300 jobs is 300 jobs i think we cannot discount this project and have to explore the options of it becoming a reality.

we have to work on hard facts im not convinced the the anti-fracking campagain have all them facts and its just like building developments and other infastructral projects up and down the country in the past,dont be building that near my house attitude i will be objecting.

No I dont know all the facts. But as I have said a lot of what I have seen and read from academics like Professor Charles Ingraffea at Cornell University, european union and Oireachtas reports, and the experiences and actions of other countries makes me very doubtful. That is why I am been cautious and do not want it to go ahead. Ive linked some information at the end.

You say say 300 jobs is 300 jobs. That is 300 jobs over the whole region over a number of decades. It is very little and a drop in the ocean compared to our current predicament. When there are 0ver 400,000 unemployed is that amount of jobs really worth risking long term damage to our enviroment, health, visual landscape, tourism, and agriculture?

Again you are patronising with regards to why people are objecting. It is not a " near my house attitude". I dont want Fracking in any part of this country or any other country for that matter. This is a fundamental issue to do with public health, jobs and unsustainable industries.

You say the anti-frackers havent convinced you and you want to deal in hard facts. Will you give provide some showing fracking will be positive for this region?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/05/24/nb-southwestern-lawsuit-hydro-fracking-551.html (Moormans previous employers subjected to lawsuits by residents for damage caused by Fracking)

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/08/10/4005993-tamborans-claims-of-chemical-free-frack-fluid-challenged-by-expert/
(charles ingraffea syas fracking cant be done chemical free)

http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/europe_gaz.pdf
(European Parliament report)

duckysauce · 04-12-2011 1:35am

countryfile on bbc sunday 04 have a piece about fracking should be interesting

thebuzz · 04-12-2011 2:04pm

We're trying to promote Ireland as a wonderful, scenic country to tourists and then we want to start building big eye sore gas rigs off our scenic coasts if it's found.

wolf99 · 04-12-2011 10:24pm

thebuzz wrote: »

We're trying to promote Ireland as a wonderful, scenic country to tourists and then we want to start building big eye sore gas rigs off our scenic coasts if it's found.

These aren't gonna be off the coasts, they're gonna be onland, every 2 - 4 km apart from north leitrm to south clare...

tuppence · 04-12-2011 11:23pm

Show your support for a councillor calling for a moratorium on fracking in the council in Leitrim tomorrrow.

If everyone on a personal level, emailed tonight or phoned Leitrim councillors in the am and told them to support the motion because of your real concerns would help, Here are the details of the councillors. (details at the left of the pg in their areas)
http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/About_...y_Councillors/

wolf99 · 05-12-2011 11:40am

tuppence wrote: »

Show your support for a councillor calling for a moratorium on fracking in the council in Leitrim tomorrrow.

If everyone on a personal level, emailed tonight or phoned Leitrim councillors in the am and told them to support the motion because of your real concerns would help, Here are the details of the councillors. (details at the left of the pg in their areas)
http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/About_...y_Councillors/

That link doesn't quite work correctly. Try:

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/About_the_Council/County_Councillors/County_Councillors.html

tuppence · 07-12-2011 1:15am

Motion passed. Thanks to people who may have got in touch and to the councillors for passing, without objection

tuppence · 10-12-2011 1:53am

Leitrim councillors will now lobby Pat rabbitte for moratorium. Central government controls this issue. More councils that come out on this the better and represent their people. Hope councillors in Sligo will follow suit.

Voodoo_rasher · 12-12-2011 5:28pm

can i get my hands on an anti-fracking car-sticker? Want to put one up. many thanks.

Gas Fracking

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