Gas Fracking

tuppence

Hi,

I dunno whether any of you have heard of this controversial type of gas exploration technique called fracking that has been proposed for the Lough Allen basin which covers the areas of Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Donegal et al. Fracking is the same procedure that led to the earth tremor/quake in Blackpool a couple of weeks ago. And the same technique thats been recently banned in France.

Anyway, there is an award winning documentary called Gasland that is currently being shown around the north west and explains how the process has been linked with serious water pollution and health problems for people in and near the sites in America. In my view it is essential viewing if people want to start their journey on being informed about this situation in light of the two companies granted licences who are now on the verge of starting their exploration.
Next showing is in Ballymote
http://www.cinemanorthwest.com/

BrianD

Read a very good article in Time magazine about it and there was an article in the Irish Times recently.

I'd imagine that it is going to be quite controversial as the the exploration companies approach individual land owners and make an offer to extract the gas. No cost to the landowner and they get a few quid. i can see this as being a tempting offer for many.

The problem is that nobody knows the longterm effects of Fracking. The other issue is that the mining companies have refused to say what chemicals are being put in with the water. In true American fashion, the industry has managed to get some States to put into law that they do not have to declare what's in the chemicals.

Fracking will affect the water table and with individual wells and group water schemes the potential for pollution is huge.

Irish Times Article - What's your fracking problem?

Time - Another fracking mess for the shale gas industry

(Journos obviously love the play upon the word fracking!)

tuppence

BrianD wrote: »

Read a very good article in Time magazine about it and there was an article in the Irish Times recently.

I'd imagine that it is going to be quite controversial as the the exploration companies approach individual land owners and make an offer to extract the gas. No cost to the landowner and they get a few quid. i can see this as being a tempting offer for many.

The problem is that nobody knows the longterm effects of Fracking. The other issue is that the mining companies have refused to say what chemicals are being put in with the water. In true American fashion, the industry has managed to get some States to put into law that they do not have to declare what's in the chemicals.

Fracking will affect the water table and with individual wells and group water schemes the potential for pollution is huge.

Irish Times Article - What's your fracking problem?

Time - Another fracking mess for the shale gas industry

(Journos obviously love the play upon the word fracking!)

Thanks Brian, Ronan Mc Greevy has also put up the interviews with the two chief executives on the irish Times website there as well. (on the right of the article) That Time article that you attached I hadnt seen before is extremely interesting, especially linking the methane and fracking. As can be see in the interview with one of the chief execs he is using the regular line that methane can happen in naturally occuring situatiions as well. So proof like the Time article and the need for more research on potential deleterious effects is a priority.

Yes it has the potential to be quite devisive, especially when there is a potential of money and jobs. However, lets hope that short term gain doesnt overlook safety concerns and lets face it our regional agriculture and tourism which has the opportunity to give more sustainable jobs. If our 'product' is ruined or polluted then where are we really. Thats before we get into the issue of peoples health. I suppose thats why I hope that this thing is weighed up by all concerned.

Btw, Theres a facebook site for people that is generating alot of information at the moment called What the frack? if people want to link up with it.

You are right everyone loves the wordplay on frack!

BrianD

The jobs seem to be few and far between as the drilling operations seem to be mechanical after a while.

I think the big problem will be greed. It seems that all the land owner had to do is to allow land access and gets paid rent. No capital costs. It's almost like renting a field or selling as site. It will be tempting for some landowners.

One hopes that the Government will require the exploration companies to declare what exactly it is that they are putting into the ground with the water.

garth-marenghi

BrianD wrote: »

The jobs seem to be few and far between as the drilling operations seem to be mechanical after a while.

I think the big problem will be greed. It seems that all the land owner had to do is to allow land access and gets paid rent. No capital costs. It's almost like renting a field or selling as site. It will be tempting for some landowners.

One hopes that the Government will require the exploration companies to declare what exactly it is that they are putting into the ground with the water.

Just a reminder that the next showing of Gasland is this thursday at 8pm in Ballymote.

Agree with previous sentiment of making sure this process is as open and transparent as possible. In the current economic climate there may be a tendancy to dismiss those with concerns as people with "political agendas" as was disgracefully the case with the Drumshanbo Fine Gael Councillor Eoin Mcgloin in the Irish Times article already cited. If having a "political agenda" means demanding that our environment is not destroyed and asking that the proceeds of any gas extracted is for the benefit of the Irish people then i definitely do share that "agenda".

Mcgloin also insinuates that the presence of "a guy from Rossport" at a screening was something negative. On the contrary the views of someone from a community with direct experience of dealing with the licensing process, multinationals and the potential impact on their surroundings is surely helpful.

I thinks its also important to involve as many possible in the debate. Especially the farmers and landowners. Of course it will be appealing in the short term to pocket a cheque but everyone needs to be fully informed what the potential consequences could be.

Its difficult not to be pessimistic with regards to our natural resources especially considering the practical giving away of the Corrib gas to Shell. Its vital that we question everything and keep this debate alive and not fall into a mindset that we take whatever financial incentives are on offer regardless of the consequences.

Richard Moorman of Tamboran said “I would have every faith in Irish regulators". Surely its the Irish people who should have faith in the regulators and not the multi-national compamies. And after our experience of regualation over the last few years a lot of people may be doubtful.....

tuppence

BrianD wrote: »

The jobs seem to be few and far between as the drilling operations seem to be mechanical after a while.

Met Duncan Stewart from RTE on Monday and he was of exactly the same opinion. He is antifracking as not providing sustainable jobs in our community. They can be found he advocates in shifting to work in generating renewable energy, eco tourism, and of course our local food industry.


Anyway I have a press release that was forwarded me from Cinema North West who are organsing Thursdays event. They are expecting quite a few of the local councillors and the latest news is that John Perry (TD) has promised to attend. So there is an opportunity for a good debate afterwards,


Screening of the US Academy Award winning film Gasland
at the mobile cinema beside the Coach House Hotel Ballymote
on Thursday 23 June at 8.00 p.m.


In the last days of the Fianna Fáil government, licences were granted to two companies – the Australian-owned Tamboran Resources and Lough Allen Natural Gas Company (LANGCO) to explore for shale gas. The areas targetted include counties Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Cavan, Donegal and Fermanagh. Exploratory work is eminent in your area and could well take place on your property or adjoining property. People need to be aware of the scale and adverse potential of these developments.

A campaign is currently in progress calling for a ban on the Shale Gas extraction method known as Hydraulic Fracturing in the Lough Allen and Clare Basin based on well-documented international data relating to human and animal health-and-safety as well as the serious environmental degradation emanating from the process.

To date the French Parliament have banned Hydraulic Fracturing. All exploration has been halted as of 3 weeks ago in Lancashire England following earthquakes in the immediate vicinity of “fracking” activity. In addition, many U.S. States are now taking action on the basis of the damaging effects of “fracking” on human and animal health.

A screening of the U.S. Academy Award winning film Gasland which deals with the environmental side-effects of Shale Gas Exploration is being organised by Cinema North West in Ballymote on Thursday 23 June at 8.00 p.m. It will take place in the mobile cinema beside the Coach House Hotel.

All councillors and political representatives in Co. Sligo and Co. Roscommon have been invited to attend.

Tickets E8 / E7 unwaged.
There will be a discussion after the film and an opportunity to sign a petition.

dnme

I would be very supportive of any initiative that seeks to educate people about the effects of fracking. Most evidence points to it being a pretty daming practice for the environment and the well being of those within the catchment.

Unfortunately, we as the Irish don't have a good record when it comes to looking after our environment. We are greedy and a lot of us are dirty. We consistently throw the green baby out with the bath water in favour of the fast buck, we do this at local as well as national level.

Look what we did to the green party in the last election (Ive no connection). I couldn't believe it.

Look how we behaved as soon as we got a bit of money. We went on a building spree and destroyed every view in the land.

Look at the filth that lines every road in the country from our lazy filthy car windows.

I take my dog walking up through the Curlew's and more or less cry when I see the illegal dumping on Coillte land. Who does that? who in the hell goes to all the trouble of bringing their filth to a remote place in the middle of the night in order to save a fiver for a bin bag?

Look at our appalling record when it comes to animal welfare.

I could go on and on but I'm weary.

I do fear any participation from anyone connected to Rossport whether well intended or not. They are associated with a negative image now, much of which is self inflicted. They are divided amongst themselves and rumours and allegations thrive about less than wholesome connections and support to their cause for whatever purpose or agenda.

Please god this latest issue will be dealt with intelligently. Bear in mind, humans are often greedy and corrupt and the only way to navigate this is with legislation. If enough farmers are offered a fast buck and the promise of jobs is drilled on national media, then the fight is a tough one.

I just dread seeing any environmental issue on the Irish horizon. They always seem destined to tragedy and disaster.

two wheels good

tuppence wrote: »

Hi,

I dunno whether any of you have heard of this controversial type of gas exploration technique called fracking that has been proposed for the Lough Allen basin which covers the areas of Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Donegal et al. Fracking is the same procedure that led to the earth tremor/quake in Blackpool a couple of weeks ago. And the same technique thats been recently banned in France.

Anyway, there is an award winning documentary called Gasland that is currently being shown around the north west and explains how the process has been linked with serious water pollution and health problems for people

Thanks for posting this. I hope the documentary can be made available nationally.

I wasn't aware that fracking was proposed in Ireland and it fills me with horror - even more horrifying than watching the oil spew out of the seabed in the Gulf of Mexico.

Following the incidents in Blackpool\Cumbria I read a little about this and the scale of fracking in the USA. I cannot comprehend how permission can be given for something that is such a danger to water supplies.

I'll start with a letter to my TDs and the minister... and I won't be offended if anyone scoffs at my naivety .

dnme

tuppence wrote: »

Hi,

I dunno whether any of you have heard of this controversial type of gas exploration technique called fracking that has been proposed for the Lough Allen basin which covers the areas of Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Donegal et al. Fracking is the same procedure that led to the earth tremor/quake in Blackpool a couple of weeks ago. And the same technique thats been recently banned in France.

Anyway, there is an award winning documentary called Gasland that is currently being shown around the north west and explains how the process has been linked with serious water pollution and health problems for people in and near the sites in America. In my view it is essential viewing if people want to start their journey on being informed about this situation in light of the two companies granted licences who are now on the verge of starting their exploration.
Next showing is in Ballymote
http://www.cinemanorthwest.com/

Can we get a clear picture of the situation as it stands.

Who is proposing what?
At what stage are these proposals?
What are the precise facts at this point in time (if you can provide references to information, that'd be very helpful)

Many thanks

two wheels good

dnme wrote: »

Can we get a clear picture of the situation as it stands.
Who is proposing what?
At what stage are these proposals?
What are the precise facts at this point in time (if you can provide references to information, that'd be very helpful)

Many thanks

Have a look at the Irish Times article, linked above. "Proposals" might be an understatement - exploration licences have been issued

tuppence

two wheels good wrote: »

Have a look at the Irish Times article, linked above. "Proposals" might be an understatement - exploration licences have been issued

Yes this is my understanding of the situation so far, the two companies and (theres a third in Fermanagn ) have exploration licences for this period. (less than a two yr period now) They are exploraing in the context that there had been gas found before but couldnt be accessed. Thats before this newest technology. Fracking is the only way they wil be able to get at it and they have admitted they will be using it. For this period they are supposed to be doing some shallow digging and desk research. They will have to go back to the minister after this stage and seek further licencing for the actual procedure afaik. Thats of course if they deem its viable an option to get at. And of course one would presume they woudl nt be here if they didnt think they could.

There is a petition going around with the mobile cinema when its showing teh film. Theres tends to be debates afterwards which is a good way to keep up to date. http://www.cinemanorthwest.com/

"What the frack?" facebook site is steadily building up a large following just run by concerned locals. They tend to source information and research and are building resources eg posters and leaflets etc to raise the issue wih the general public.

What the frack has just launched its website this weekend and this I belive has the terms of the licence thats been granted as well as the areas/townlands in the counties where licence have been permitted. I woudl suggest if you wanted to get further involved to pm the facebook site or What the frack website and ask to be out on an contact list too. And theres more on the site btw. here is the link...
http://what-the-frack.org/gas-land-the-movie/

dnme

Many thanks, yes I had rad the Irish Times article. I guess my question was badly worded. I was just wondering had exploration begin? on who's land? who's permission etc but as you say there's a website so I'll look there.

daithiordave

Insiders Warn “Shale Plays are Just Giant Ponzi Schemes” in Bombshell-Laden NY Times Piece on Natural Gas, Fracking, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26gas.html?_r=2&hp

TheQ47

Have you seen this? http://nyp.st/iIyXG5 Any thoughts on it?

frackingishell

well, wonder what crackpot Ireland will manage on this one....

Can i point out to everyone that Fracking has KILLED most of the places where it was used in the USA. Many states have now banned it.

Can i also point out that it was DickCheney, the celebrated humanitarian, whose company, halliburton, pioneered this process in the United states. Now, you'll love this;

Politicians who supported the industry had tried for years to exempt fracking from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the 1974 law that regulates the injection of waste and chemicals underground. The EPA's 2004 study was used to justify that effort. With the help of then-Vice President Dick Cheney -- the former head of Halliburton -- President George W. Bush's landmark energy legislation, the 2005 Energy Policy Act, included a provision that prohibited the EPA from regulating fracking under the Safe Drinking Water Act. Regulation would be left to the states, many of which had underfunded agencies, looser standards and less manpower than the federal government.

So hundreds (if not thousands) of dirt-poor American communites in the US were duped by Halliburton with the promise financial gain and jobs. WHOLE AREAS ARE NOW WASTELANDS!. Most of these communities are now destroyed, their water tables destroyed, with ground water they can literally light on fire.

People can see the Gasland documentary online aswell, you dont have to travel for it http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/613/index.html

This needs to be outlawed in this country, as it has been outlawed in France. This is short term minor financial gain in exchange for COMPLETE devastation.

Please call your TD, it seems to be the Minister for Natural resources, and voice your objection. Let's also realise that Fianna Fail attempted to do what Cheney did as they were thrown out of power. Lets also realise we've seen this before with Fianna Fail and Bertie and our Forests, and the international Swiss consortium that he tried to head up to buy them recently, using secret information he knows but cannot be released to the public due to a law he enacted.

Enough is enough folks, please GOD Fine gael and Labour can get this one right. Fracking Is Hell.

frackingishell

TheQ47 wrote: »

Have you seen this? http://nyp.st/iIyXG5 Any thoughts on it?

Absolute dis-iniformation, total rubbish

frackingishell

Hi Folks,

a petition against fracking. would really appreciate signing and forwarding of it to as many people as you think would care- took us a while to put it together.

cheers

http://www.change.org/petitions/ban-destructive-gas-fracking-in-ireland

(ps- the website might be a bit up and down today as they said they were getting cyber attacks from china after ai wei wei petition got him released before the chinese visit to Britain last week).

tuppence

pm ed instead.

frackingishell

Hi tuppence- dont follow you?

tuppence

frackingishell wrote: »

Hi tuppence- dont follow you?

You got what I sent you.

frackingishell

tuppence wrote: »

You got what I sent you.

yep was a bit bleary eyed looking at the screen :-) -anyway, all stuff taken on board by the way - reload that petition and you'll see. Have a good one

amsol

In the Lough Allen Area, many people are trying to organize. Some local websites and links:

http://lough-allen-frack-free.weebly.com/index.html

What the Frack? on Facebook

Especially look for showings of film Gasland.

Fracking is not only being planned for Sligo, Cavan, Roscommon, Leitrim and Donegal, but actual licenses for drilling (not just test drilling) have, I am told, been already granted in Fermanagh. Another company, Enego, has been granted test drilling licenses for the Clare Basin, including Counties Clare and Limerick. The entire inland waterway system, lake and stream fishing, and agriculture over thousands of acres could be affected if this goes through. This has to be stopped, and it will only be halted if this time, we are actually heard in Government.

IvyTheTerrible

Please tell me this is a horrible joke. This cannot be let happen in ireland too.

The French government have apparently said no to fracking just yesterday, but this was only after a LARGE protest movement.

What worries me is that they have said no to fracking but not to the whole thing...

frackingishell

amsol wrote: »

In the Lough Allen Area, many people are trying to organize. Some local websites and links:

http://lough-allen-frack-free.weebly.com/index.html

What the Frack? on Facebook

Especially look for showings of film Gasland.

Fracking is not only being planned for Sligo, Cavan, Roscommon, Leitrim and Donegal, but actual licenses for drilling (not just test drilling) have, I am told, been already granted in Fermanagh. Another company, Enego, has been granted test drilling licenses for the Clare Basin, including Counties Clare and Limerick. The entire inland waterway system, lake and stream fishing, and agriculture over thousands of acres could be affected if this goes through. This has to be stopped, and it will only be halted if this time, we are actually heard in Government.

Gasland is linked on my petition below- a lump of it is on pbs

http://www.change.org/petitions/ban-destructive-gas-fracking-in-ireland

amsol

1. See Gasland
2. Sign petitions: fackingishell has posted this one:
http://www.change.org/petitions/ban-...ing-in-ireland
3. My website give you a place to sign up for ongoing info:
http://lough-allen-frack-free.weebly.com/index.html
This website tells you what the state of licenses are in the Republic, and
news videos on the situation in the US, UK and Australia.
4. Go to Council meetings about fracking when you see they are posted:
my website, hopefully.
5. Check out other websites, as you see them here.

This is no joke, unfortunately, and given the Government's track record in honesty and openness, even more worrying.

amsol

frackingishell

well said Amsol. Unfortunately in Ireland it's often a bad idea to place faith in our elected officials doing the right thing for us.

garth-marenghi

Richard Moorman of Tamboran that is seeking to conduct hydraulic fracturing in Lough Allen also appears to have been an employee of South-Western Energy who are the subject of lawsuits by people in the United States over alleged damage caused by fracking. http://www.tamboran.com/node/2

The cases are as far as I can see are still ongoing but it hardly fills you with confidence over what may be in store for this region:(


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/05/24/nb-southwestern-lawsuit-hydro-fracking-551.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/03/10/nb-hydrofracking-lawsuit.html

garth-marenghi

I find it a little patronising to have concerns about fracking refered to as "mild hysteria" by Senator Paschal Mooney. Are the French government hysterical for banning it?. Still, at least the issue was raised on a national political platform, lets hope this is just the beginning.
http://oceanfm.ie/article/Calls-for-Communications-Minister-to-address-consequences-of-proposed-hydraulic-fracturing-/

frackingishell

yeah, i'd prefer if the Fianna Fail senator didn't patronise me, even if he is demonstrating how stupid he is by attempting to belittle this issue. (Co-incidentally the senator is from the party that issued the exploration licenses just before they were dumped from office...)

anyone else feel the same? do let Paschal know- i'm pretty sure this is the senator's official contact address- available on the internet also.
paschal@paschalmooney.eu

I'm really bothered by the fact that parties in Government were allowed to give these licenses without public consultation, or some sort of oversight. It stinks of backscratching, and backhanders, and it's never in the National interest.

The sooner this country can break away from the bull**** civil war political system that is crippling us the better. They're all the same with a different label, and we're all being conned on a daily basis by our own perceptions.

But that's another days work. No to Fracking for now!

garth-marenghi

For those who havent seen Gasland here is a short (17min) investigative report on Fracking in the United States. Check out Richard Moorman (tamboran) in the Leitrim Observer on his plans for fracking in the region. Scary stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM

Pete M.

Would any of ye come to see this film if it was shown in the Trades Club?

Was chatting to a buck who could put it on.

frackingishell

good afternoon, i asked the below on the farming and fracking thread aswell;

folks, i think it's about time we got a summary of the barriers this industry now need to cross before they can attempt to destroy the enviroment by fracking for gas.

For all the vehemence of my opposition, i must confess, i just don't know whose hands this is in.

Can anyone enlighten us? I feel that, if we had the facts of who will be responsible for allowing this disaster to happen, we can better direct our efforts of opposition, and get some accountability, and put some faces to the decisions.

Thanks

Pete M.

Get in touch with this lot:

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie

Get some info re: Licencing etc. and lobby your local TD about it too.

I will post here when I know more about getting it shown in the TC.

garth-marenghi

Pete M. wrote: »

Would any of ye come to see this film if it was shown in the Trades Club?

Was chatting to a buck who could put it on.

A few of us did a stall and petition at the Parkfest (cairde festival) yesterday in town. We got a very good response with people wanting more information, to be put on mailing lists and to get actively involved. A lot of people were genuinely shocked at what is been proposed. A few also asked about Gasland been shown in sligo so im sure there is an audience there for it.

Going by the response yesterday think one of the best ways to get information out there and build a campaign is to get to festivals like Cairde and in particular the agricultural shows around the region with leaflets and petitions.

garth-marenghi

Very good piece from BBC news last year. This is moving at an alarming rate, Tamboran are meeting Cavan County Council this week as far as I know.
If you are not already informed about fracking, please get reading/watching etc and stop this before its on our doorstep. No point doing anything after the fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZqXGBlj10

IvyTheTerrible

Where I live in France, there were many sites proposed for shale gas exploration. We are not out of the woods yet (I am not convinced that the ban on fracturing alone is enough to stop this) but the protesting was very visible and vocal.

Particularly in the department (county) of Ardeche, there are "Non au Gaz de Schiste" signs everywhere, also the collective that is organising the protests has distributed thousands of bumper stickers, that we see everywhere. This keeps the issue in people's minds. There have also been protests with up to 10000 participants.

I think it would be worth looking at how they are doing things when planning a campaign in Ireland.

frackingishell

completely agree Ivy, i think we need to look at possible funding. i wonder who we could ask for money from( business-wise) who would be in direct opposition to fracking?

IvyTheTerrible

frackingishell wrote: »

completely agree Ivy, i think we need to look at possible funding. i wonder who we could ask for money from( business-wise) who would be in direct opposition to fracking?

Hmm, I'm not sure. I know that some of the costs of printing the stickers and posters were raised by donations made at the protests.

EDIT: I can find out more about the financing, I remembered I know someone involved in Ardeche...

tuppence

Yes it seems to be the members themselves that are financing it themselves here. Of course a kind benefactor would be so much welcomed. The likes of Chuck feeney or those if out there.....;)
Any innovative appraches most welcome from France especially since ye were so successful. Sometimes it seems to take a strong character at the helm. You have a strong guy in France havent you?

Pete M.

The film Gasland will be shown in the Trades Club on the 30th of July.

It will run a couple of times, from 5pm.

More details to follow.....

IvyTheTerrible

tuppence wrote: »

Yes it seems to be the members themselves that are financing it themselves here. Of course a kind benefactor would be so much welcomed. The likes of Chuck feeney or those if out there.....;)
Any innovative appraches most welcome from France especially since ye were so successful. Sometimes it seems to take a strong character at the helm. You have a strong guy in France havent you?

Jose Bove, he's pretty militant!

Here is the site for the collective in Ardeche:

http://www.stopaugazdeschiste07.org/

And here is a list of all their promotional material (some in English):

http://www.stopaugazdeschiste07.org/spip.php?rubrique5

This could give Irish organisers some inspiration in terms of a strong logo (I find the gas mask logo very powerful) etc.

garth-marenghi

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/jul/14/gas-fracking-children-colouring-book?INTCMP=SRCH

One company in America targeting children with colouring books:(

garth-marenghi

For those who didnt see it here is the Prime Time coverage of Hydraulic Fracturing in the North-West from last night. The fracking segment starts about 15mins into the programme.
http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1109605

GG66

Is there an organised campaign against this? There seems to be a lot of local activity with little central co-ordination. Several facebook pages, web pages etc.

This dilutes the effect of any campaign.

Gipo3

Its probably being organised by the same type of gobsh1tes as for the corrib pipeline.:pac::pac:

frackingishell

well, the organisation took a hit lst night, but hopefully the Irish people are smart enough to see what happened last night on rte prime time was an exercise in disinformation.

What essentially happened was, Leah Doherty (one of the leading campaigners..) was ambushed by them saying they could do it with only water and sand. This was seriously out of the blue, and it took the discussion away from the negative impacts of fracking, to the RTE presenter having a go at Ms. Doherty saying, 'well, would you accept it if there's no chemicals' in it.

I think Ms. Doherty was definitely put in an unprepared position at that point, as doing it without chemicals is completely new and unknown.

The excuse the smug tamoboran guy made(who by the way, was literally laughing right through the interview), was that it wasn't that deep in Ireland compared to anywhere else, so it could be done with sand and water, as they wouldnt need the chemicals for lubrication.

To me this was a bit bizarre, but taking it at face value (which i dont), the only way this could be monitored and acceptable is if every single injection into the ground was supervised.

NOT taking it at face value, i see this as a cynical way to get this through the planning process, use just water that won't work (if it was that easy we could reverse global warming!), and when the wells have been built, say 'look, water isn't working, sure we have the wells, we have to use the chemicals', and the Irish Government politicians are bought and we have your traditional fracking.

i fail to see how simply pumping water 2km under ground will fracture rock to a depth deep enough to unleash buried gas in seams, even if it is only shale. And water has NEVER been only used with sand as a means to Frack.

This was an exercise in bullsh*t by the Tamboran guy. The fact is, that he was probably laughing because he and his mates had been discussing off camera to see if they could get away with saying they'd do it with 'no chemicals at all' on Irish television. just to shut Leah Doherty up and dismiss the whole point of the interview. He probably had mates just behind the camera making faces at him,that REALLY looked like what was happening- i've done it myself loads of times messing when someone is trying to keep a straight face.. And the thick Irish presenter, who obviously hadn't done his research , took it hook line and sinker without barely a whimper.

Saying out of the blue like he did, that it can be done with no water, is akin to NATO saying there'll definitely be no civilian casualties on their next bombing mission. Assuage public opinion at the beginning, knowing full well that once youre in, there aint a damn thing people will be able to do about it. Donald, Dick and George, eat your heart out

That Tamboran lad is evil incarnate, by his track record, and i just got the feeling he was last night. That's just me though.

Buford T Justice

I know sod all about fracking, and it doesn't terribly interest me to be honest.

However, from watching prime time, the woman who was campaigning against it clearly lost that battle. She had little or no facts behind her and I got the impression that she was disagreeing with everything that was said just for the sake of it. Everything that yer man said she claimed was lies, and yet she had no facts to back anything up. At least the people wanting to do the fracking explained their side of things a bit better, albeit while looking like a smug git when he was being interviewed. Wonder what he was laughing at.

I'm also interested in how she believes that this will result in the loss of jobs in Leitrim. 'An end to industries and real jobs' as she put it. are there pretend jobs or something?


She can't accept anything, and clearly we're a bunch of paddies who don't know enough about this to be able to regulate this industry.

They argument that the non chemical method won't work simply because its never been done before is frankly laughable. If we all took that at face value then the wright brothers would never have invented flight, along with not having the lightbulb, the car, TV, the wheel etc......

She made no comment on it when it was put to her, instead made comments about how they're the big bad wolf who'll do it anyway when we're looking the other way.

garth-marenghi

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I know sod all about fracking, and it doesn't terribly interest me to be honest.

However, from watching prime time, the woman who was campaigning against it clearly lost that battle. She had little or no facts behind her and I got the impression that she was disagreeing with everything that was said just for the sake of it. Everything that yer man said she claimed was lies, and yet she had no facts to back anything up. At least the people wanting to do the fracking explained their side of things a bit better, albeit while looking like a smug git when he was being interviewed. Wonder what he was laughing at.

I'm also interested in how she believes that this will result in the loss of jobs in Leitrim. 'An end to industries and real jobs' as she put it. are there pretend jobs or something?


She can't accept anything, and clearly we're a bunch of paddies who don't know enough about this to be able to regulate this industry.

They argument that the non chemical method won't work simply because its never been done before is frankly laughable. If we all took that at face value then the wright brothers would never have invented flight, along with not having the lightbulb, the car, TV, the wheel etc......

She made no comment on it when it was put to her, instead made comments about how they're the big bad wolf who'll do it anyway when we're looking the other way.

You should check out the various articles/videos/and movies(gasland) that are out there online to get a flavour of the consequences of when Fracking goes wrong. And when you consider that its been proposed for this region thats reason enough for me to be interested.

Leah Doherty is not a professionally trained, media savy indvivdual who has done lots of media work. She is a member of a local grassroots anti-fracking campaign who was asked at very short notice to participate in the live debate so to be fair to her its not surprising that it appeared to some that she lost the argument. She is speaking from the heart about genuine concerns she and many others have for the region. Richard Moorman is thinking in terms of maximising profit and attracting investors.

In relation to jobs. Tourism and the food industry are seen as two key areas of growth in the jobs sector in the future. I think the point is if Fracking goes ahead and hundreds of wells(tamborans estimate) are built in Leitrim alone this is hardly going to prove attractive to tourists. I for one dont want to go around Leitrim and see a gas well at intervals of every mile or two. (google to see how big these thing are and imagine hundreds, the traffic, access roade etc in leitrim)

In a similiar way if there even one incident in relation to a spill, or some kind of accident with the water supply or whatever of course this could jeporadise farmers and the food industrys reputation globally and therefore jobs. Another example is as far as im aware Abbots in Sligo once contemplated moving but decided to stay due to the good quality of the water supply (correct me if im wrong). With fracking this would be under threat.

She is not making the remark about fracking not working without chemicals in a flippant way. Dr charles ingraffea of cornell university, a man with 30 years experience in rock fracture mechanics has cast serious doubts on tamborans claims (see link) http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/08/10/4005993-tamborans-claims-of-chemical-free-frack-fluid-challenged-by-expert/


I think we are all right to be very wary of this project and not take everything Moorman says at face value. He is a smooth PR operator who in the space of a few weeks said fracking would involve chemicals to all of a sudden have zero. We must question this assertion, it has never been done and all of a sudden it is possible, dr ingraffea has poured scorn on the claim and lest we forget Mr Moorman worked for South-western Energy until the middle part of this year and they are now been sued in the U.S for damage caused by fracking. At the very least that must be worrying.

garth-marenghi

frackingishell wrote: »

well, the organisation took a hit lst night, but hopefully the Irish people are smart enough to see what happened last night on rte prime time was an exercise in disinformation.

What essentially happened was, Leah Doherty (one of the leading campaigners..) was ambushed by them saying they could do it with only water and sand. This was seriously out of the blue, and it took the discussion away from the negative impacts of fracking, to the RTE presenter having a go at Ms. Doherty saying, 'well, would you accept it if there's no chemicals' in it.

I think Ms. Doherty was definitely put in an unprepared position at that point, as doing it without chemicals is completely new and unknown.

The excuse the smug tamoboran guy made(who by the way, was literally laughing right through the interview), was that it wasn't that deep in Ireland compared to anywhere else, so it could be done with sand and water, as they wouldnt need the chemicals for lubrication.

To me this was a bit bizarre, but taking it at face value (which i dont), the only way this could be monitored and acceptable is if every single injection into the ground was supervised.

NOT taking it at face value, i see this as a cynical way to get this through the planning process, use just water that won't work (if it was that easy we could reverse global warming!), and when the wells have been built, say 'look, water isn't working, sure we have the wells, we have to use the chemicals', and the Irish Government politicians are bought and we have your traditional fracking.

i fail to see how simply pumping water 2km under ground will fracture rock to a depth deep enough to unleash buried gas in seams, even if it is only shale. And water has NEVER been only used with sand as a means to Frack.

This was an exercise in bullsh*t by the Tamboran guy. The fact is, that he was probably laughing because he and his mates had been discussing off camera to see if they could get away with saying they'd do it with 'no chemicals at all' on Irish television. just to shut Leah Doherty up and dismiss the whole point of the interview. He probably had mates just behind the camera making faces at him,that REALLY looked like what was happening- i've done it myself loads of times messing when someone is trying to keep a straight face.. And the thick Irish presenter, who obviously hadn't done his research , took it hook line and sinker without barely a whimper.

Saying out of the blue like he did, that it can be done with no water, is akin to NATO saying there'll definitely be no civilian casualties on their next bombing mission. Assuage public opinion at the beginning, knowing full well that once youre in, there aint a damn thing people will be able to do about it. Donald, Dick and George, eat your heart out

That Tamboran lad is evil incarnate, by his track record, and i just got the feeling he was last night. That's just me though.

To be fair Frackingshell the comment about using no chemicals is not something new or out of the blue. Its been in the media recently and the claim has already been discredited by Dr Charles Ingraffea from Cornell University. Leah would defintely have been aware of these developments. I do agree with your overall sentiment though about been very wary of Moorman and Fracking


http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/08/10/4005993-tamborans-claims-of-chemical-free-frack-fluid-challenged-by-expert/

Buford T Justice

garth-marenghi wrote: »

You should check out the various articles/videos/and movies(gasland) that are out there online to get a flavour of the consequences of when Fracking goes wrong. And when you consider that its been proposed for this region thats reason enough for me to be interested.

Leah Doherty is not a professionally trained, media savy indvivdual who has done lots of media work. She is a member of a local grassroots anti-fracking campaign who was asked at very short notice to participate in the live debate so to be fair to her its not surprising that it appeared to some that she lost the argument. She is speaking from the heart about genuine concerns she and many others have for the region. Richard Moorman is thinking in terms of maximising profit and attracting investors.

In relation to jobs. Tourism and the food industry are seen as two key areas of growth in the jobs sector in the future. I think the point is if Fracking goes ahead and hundreds of wells(tamborans estimate) are built in Leitrim alone this is hardly going to prove attractive to tourists. I for one dont want to go around Leitrim and see a gas well at intervals of every mile or two. (google to see how big these thing are and imagine hundreds, the traffic, access roade etc in leitrim)

In a similiar way if there even one incident in relation to a spill, or some kind of accident with the water supply or whatever of course this could jeporadise farmers and the food industrys reputation globally and therefore jobs. Another example is as far as im aware Abbots in Sligo once contemplated moving but decided to stay due to the good quality of the water supply (correct me if im wrong). With fracking this would be under threat.

She is not making the remark about fracking not working without chemicals in a flippant way. Dr charles ingraffea of cornell university, a man with 30 years experience in rock fracture mechanics has cast serious doubts on tamborans claims (see link) http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/08/10/4005993-tamborans-claims-of-chemical-free-frack-fluid-challenged-by-expert/


I think we are all right to be very wary of this project and not take everything Moorman says at face value. He is a smooth PR operator who in the space of a few weeks said fracking would involve chemicals to all of a sudden have zero. We must question this assertion, it has never been done and all of a sudden it is possible, dr ingraffea has poured scorn on the claim and lest we forget Mr Moorman worked for South-western Energy until the middle part of this year and they are now been sued in the U.S for damage caused by fracking. At the very least that must be worrying.

An excellent post, thankyou. In fairness, you should have been on the TV instead of that woman....
I've no argument with anything you said. I think it is fair not to take everything at face value yes, but when he was called a liar for everything he said did seem like a last ditch effort of a desperate campaigner.. I don't think it's done the cause any favors at all.

tuppence

GG66 wrote: »

Is there an organised campaign against this? There seems to be a lot of local activity with little central co-ordination. Several facebook pages, web pages etc.

This dilutes the effect of any campaign.

Yes I see what you mean and agree in many ways. Rather than going into too much details here if I ever get a moment I shall pm you. Suffice to say it is structured but also true to say is that it could be structured better! There eg is the remnants of two groups which have now been amalgamated into one.
There is alot of local activity and yes thats for a reason, but this is such a big campaign that its countywide, intercounty , national and international.

Anyway its no accident that Prime Time were down, the company know that this leitrim group have legs...(and we need all of your support to maintain stamina and morale)
For example the group mobilised a hundred people in the space of two days on an email round up alone for the german politician helmut Fehr whose region in germany banned fracking. (he was on holiday, hence short notice!)

Anyway is that an offer of support? All support and advice is extremely welcome.


A few dates for ye'r diaries!!!

Currently there is an audio visual information exhibition bout fracking in the Leitrim Sculpture Centre. this is a mobile exhibition and can be moved to libraries all round the region. (eg to Sligo ) Its already going to fermanagh. Its been extended for the weekend and will be running from 12 to 4pm.


There is a public meeting on in Carrick on Shannon,, hosted by Lough Allen Conservation Society on September 1st at 8pm in the Bush hotel. Pls come and invite friends family members, etc that will be affected by this (farmers, fisherman, people in tourist industry,families with kids...this is a public health issue this means everyone! ) to get information.

We will be also doing fundraisers soon as well small and larger ventures and we have a few big names on board.......We will be giving ye a call out. It would be great if ye could come.

This is not a county issue as you know, it threatens parts of Sligo, Cavan, Roscommon, to name just a few as well as Leitrim. There will need to be a unified response on a local level but ultimately the national response we are after is a ban. Pls share the petition.

Tuppence